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On the show
From 10 epsHosts
Recent guests
Recent episodes
Should Sellers Pick Pocket Listings?
Jun 24, 2026
Unknown duration
NAR Midyear Toothpaste
Jun 18, 2026
Unknown duration
What Is the MLS, Anyway?
Jun 10, 2026
Unknown duration
What Happens When Zillow Stops Playing Nice?
Jun 3, 2026
Unknown duration
There and back again, the IDX debate continues.
May 27, 2026
Unknown duration
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| Date | Episode | Topics | Guests | Brands | Places | Keywords | Sponsor | Length | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6/24/26 | Should Sellers Pick Pocket Listings? | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview This week, Rob and Greg are joined by Professor Darren Hayunga of the University of Georgia to discuss his research on pocket listings and private sales. Using 20 years of Dallas-Fort Worth MLS data, Darren explains why his findings challenge conventional wisdom about off-market transactions, how Clear Cooperation Policy impacted pocket sales, and why sellers may not be sacrificing value by avoiding the open market. The conversation explores market efficiency, buyer and seller behavior, luxury listings, and the broader implications for the ongoing industry debate around private listing networks and consumer choice. Key Takeaways Professor Darren Hayunga's study found that pocket sales in Dallas-Fort Worth generated an average premium of roughly 1.7%, with luxury properties showing significantly higher premiums. The research suggests sellers may benefit from avoiding what Darren calls the "negotiation tax" associated with traditional MLS listing strategies. Clear Cooperation Policy largely eliminated the pricing advantage of pocket sales, but did not eliminate their use. Pocket listings became more common over time, growing substantially after the early 2010s despite industry efforts to curb them. The discussion highlights the challenges of measuring off-market transactions and the importance of comparing truly comparable properties when conducting housing research. Rob and Greg debate whether the continued popularity of private sales reflects consumer preference, brokerage incentives, or broader market efficiencies. Links Contact Professor Hayunga Pocket Sales in the Housing Market: Selection, Outcomes and Policy Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 6/18/26 | NAR Midyear Toothpaste | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg recap the 2026 NAR Midyear meetings in Washington, D.C., discussing the changing role of NAR in MLS policy, the ongoing debate around private listings and exclusive inventory, and the varying reactions from MLS leaders across the country. They also examine how brokers, MLSs, and portals are redefining their relationships as the industry continues to grapple with cooperation, consumer access, and listing distribution. Later, they discuss Mike DelPrete's recent industry webinar and dive into a broader philosophical debate about whether the MLS should function primarily as a professional cooperation platform or a consumer-facing marketing tool. Key Takeaways Greg shares observations from NAR Midyear, including conversations with MLS leaders about private listings, office exclusives, and broker cooperation. Many MLSs outside major markets are not experiencing the same level of disruption from private listing strategies seen in places like Southern California. Rob and Greg discuss whether MLSs should create listing statuses or tools to accommodate exclusive inventory while preserving cooperation. The conversation explores Zillow's growing influence in listing policy following NAR's reduced role in MLS governance. Mike DelPrete's webinar sparks discussion about the industry's biggest unresolved questions around private listings and MLS purpose. Rob argues that the MLS should primarily serve as a business-to-business cooperation platform, while Greg challenges that view by emphasizing the MLS's longstanding consumer-facing role. The episode examines how internet distribution, IDX, and syndication transformed listing marketing and agent behavior over the past two decades. Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 6/10/26 | What Is the MLS, Anyway? | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg recap their time at the Signal conference before diving into one of the biggest debates facing organized real estate: what exactly is the MLS supposed to be? The conversation centers on "Pool," ThousandWatt's thought experiment for a national home exchange that would compensate listing contributors and charge data users. Rob argues the concept reveals a growing belief that the MLS is primarily a data repository, while Greg sees it as a modernized form of cooperation. From there, the discussion expands into the purpose of MLSs, the difference between cooperation and marketing, portal participation, private listing debates, government intervention, and whether the industry is losing sight of its core mission. Key Takeaways Rob discusses his new consulting engagement with Compass and why he believes independent opinions remain critical. Highlights from the Signal conference, including the branding lessons behind Liquid Death and ThousandWatt's "Pool" concept. Rob reveals Pool closely mirrors the Nexus MLS model he previously attempted to build. A debate over whether MLSs are fundamentally data repositories or broker cooperatives. Greg and Rob clash over the relationship between cooperation, compensation, marketing, and listing distribution. Discussion of off-market listings, seller choice, "velvet rope" marketing, and government involvement in real estate policy. Why both hosts believe the industry needs a clearer answer to the question: "What is the MLS?" Links 1000Watt's Pool Website Greg's 'Limited Exposure' Article Rob's Analysis of Connecticut Law Compass on Private Listings Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 6/3/26 | What Happens When Zillow Stops Playing Nice? | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Greg revisits his "Poking the Bear" article and argues that the industry may be underestimating what happens if Zillow is pushed into becoming a direct competitor. Using a Nike-versus-Hyatt branding analogy, Greg and Rob debate whether a Zillow brokerage, franchise, or even MLS would be a nightmare scenario or simply the next stage of competition. The conversation expands into a broader discussion about MLS infrastructure, IDX, cooperation, listing distribution, and whether the industry is protecting outdated systems at the expense of innovation. Rob argues that the industry's real asset is cooperation, not marketing, while Greg contends that blowing up existing systems creates more risk than reward. The result is one of the podcast's most philosophical debates about competition, infrastructure, and the future of real estate. Key Takeaways Greg explains the premise of his "Poking the Bear" article and why he believes the industry should be careful about forcing Zillow into a more direct competitive role. The hosts discuss whether a national Zillow brokerage or franchise would be a serious threat to existing brokerages and brands. Rob argues that direct competition is preferable to the current situation because brokerages know how to compete against other brokerages, franchises, and MLSs. Greg questions whether Compass's evolution into a larger conglomerate could create opportunities for boutique and independent brokerage models. The discussion shifts to MLS infrastructure, with Rob arguing that cooperation—not marketing—is the true value proposition of the MLS system. Rob and Greg debate whether IDX remains relevant in its current form and whether it should become an opt-in rather than opt-out system. The hosts explore the difference between cooperation data and marketing data, and whether those functions should be separated moving forward. Greg argues that unrestricted competition could create unintended consequences, while Rob maintains that open competition ultimately benefits consumers. The episode closes with a larger conversation about preserving what makes the U.S. real estate market unique while adapting to new competitive realities. Links Greg's Article Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 5/27/26 | There and back again, the IDX debate continues. | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg dive into a major discussion about IDX, MLS rules, private listings, and whether MLSs should still control listing distribution in 2026. Using a Twitter exchange with Michael Wurzer as the jumping-off point, they unpack the history of VOWs, syndication, Zillow's rise, and whether the industry is still operating on outdated internet-era assumptions. Key Takeaways Michael Wurzer's IDX question leads into a larger conversation about MLS governance. Greg argues MLSs could handle private listings with simple status changes. Rob argues IDX was never intended to become the industry's primary listing distribution system. The history of ListHub, Realtor.com, Zillow, and syndication reshaping the industry is revisited. Rob proposes MLSs focus only on cooperation while brokers control distribution themselves. Greg pushes back on whether replacing IDX is actually simpler than adapting it. Links X Thread Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 5/20/26 | The Struggle is Real | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview This episode starts with Greg discussing Giant Steps' new MLS channel guidebook and the growing difficulty vendors face navigating organized real estate. Rob and Greg unpack how MLS relationships, site licenses, and enterprise deals have changed, why vendor distribution is getting harder, and how AI could completely reshape SaaS and real estate technology business models. The conversation then shifts into AI as "labor" rather than just software, token-based economics, infrastructure wars between Zillow, Compass, and the MLS ecosystem, and how the fallout from Sitzer/Burnett continues to reshape the industry. They also debate BLX, MLS cooperation, and whether MLSs are behaving more like governments than businesses. Key Takeaways Greg explains why MLS site-license deals are becoming rarer and why vendors increasingly need direct-to-agent strategies. Rob compares MLSs to government bureaucracies and argues vendors often need "lobbyists" to navigate the system. Discussion on AI shifting from a SaaS tool to a labor replacement model powered by compute and tokens. Rob and Greg explore how Zillow, Compass, and MLSs are competing to become the core infrastructure layer of real estate. Debate over whether BLX strengthens MLS cooperation or creates a path around traditional MLS systems. The long-term ripple effects of Sitzer/Burnett continue to reshape technology, brokerage, and listing distribution strategies. Links The MLS Channel Field Guide - From Giant Steps Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 5/13/26 | BLX, Zillow, MRED, and Fight for Control | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg react to Cotality's launch of BLX, a new broker-focused listing input platform that immediately sparks debate over whether it's a defensive move against portals or "Project Upstream" all over again. They dig into broker control, MLS compliance, native Matrix integration, and whether MLSs were blindsided by the launch. They also discuss Zillow filing suit against MRED and Compass over private listings, leading into a larger conversation about industry framing, consumer transparency, and whether Zillow has become an unofficial regulator of real estate. Key Takeaways Cotality launched BLX, a broker listing input and distribution platform aimed at streamlining listing management across MLSs and portals. Rob questions whether BLX effectively bypasses MLS authority and compares it directly to Project Upstream. Greg argues the product is more about preserving MLS relevance as brokers increasingly use portal-based listing input systems. Debate over whether MLSs were informed ahead of the BLX launch and how major Matrix customers may react. Discussion around broker control vs. MLS compliance rules, especially regarding listing distribution and branding. Zillow sued MRED and Compass over private listings and alleged restriction of competition. Rob and Greg debate Zillow's influence over consumer perception and whether portals should be shaping Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 5/6/26 | The Game of Chicken: MLS Style | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Greg previews his ICE keynote, "What If We're Wrong?", challenging core MLS assumptions around data ownership, cooperation, and control. The discussion quickly shifts to MRED's push to limit public data visibility, sparking a broader debate on transparency, Zillow's leverage, and whether MLSs still hold real power. Rob argues the industry is already moving past NAR's authority, while both highlight growing instability across MLSs, vendors, and business models. The episode ends on a bigger theme: rapid change, AI, and the need for organizations to adapt fast—or fall behind. Key Takeaways - MLS assumptions around data and control are being tested - MRED vs. Zillow signals a larger industry power struggle - NAR is shifting toward an advisory role, not enforcement - Larger MLSs are acting independently; smaller ones may still rely on NAR - Vendors and MLSs face increasing uncertainty and decision paralysis - AI is accelerating disruption across the industry - Success now depends on speed, flexibility, and willingness to adapt Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 4/29/26 | Acquisitions, Alliances & the Aftershocks✨ | brokerage consolidationvaluation logic+4 | — | Real BrokerageRE/MAX+3 | — | acquisitionsalliances+7 | — | 1h 07m 10s | |
| 4/22/26 | MLS Mega Merger and Boomers vs. First Time Home Buyers✨ | MLS mergerhousing market trends+4 | — | MLS | South FloridaTexas+3 | MLS mergerfirst-time homebuyers+5 | — | 57m 46s | |
Want analysis for the episodes below?Free for Pro Submit a request, we'll have your selected episodes analyzed within an hour. Free, at no cost to you, for Pro users. | |||||||||
| 4/17/26 | IDX: The Original Sin?✨ | NAR settlementZillow pre-marketing+4 | — | NARZillow+2 | — | NARZillow+5 | Cotality | 1h 08m 50s | |
| 4/8/26 | Cooperation: It's Hard To Tell the Poison From the Cure✨ | MLS rulesprivate listings+4 | — | Northwest MLSCompass | — | MLSCompass+6 | Cotality | 57m 27s | |
| 4/1/26 | Previews, Portals, and the Shift in Listing Control✨ | listing controlreal estate marketing+4 | — | ZillowRedfin+3 | — | Zillowpreviews+5 | — | 57m 20s | |
| 3/25/26 | Begun the pre-marketing wars have✨ | pre-marketing strategieslisting distribution+4 | Andy Woolley | ZillowCompass+4 | — | pre-marketinglisting agreements+6 | — | 1h 06m 20s | |
| 3/18/26 | Hanna List, Compass, and the Consolidation Question✨ | real estatebrokerage competition+4 | — | Howard HannaHanna List+2 | — | Hanna ListCompass+5 | — | 42m 58s | |
| 3/11/26 | Inside the NAR Influencer Summit✨ | NAR Influencer Summitleadership changes+4 | — | NARNational Association of Realtors | Chicago | NARInfluencer Summit+5 | — | 1h 00m 12s | |
| 3/4/26 | Compass, Redfin and an Uncertain Future✨ | real estatemarket trends+5 | — | CompassRedfin+2 | — | CompassRedfin+7 | — | 56m 44s | |
| 2/25/26 | MLS Independence, AI and talking to portals.✨ | MLS autonomyAI in real estate+4 | — | NARHomes.com+1 | — | MLS independenceAI voice search+5 | Cotality | 58m 30s | |
| 2/18/26 | Can the MLS Keep Up with AI? | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg recap MLS Reset, discussing key themes that emerged from the event — including the growing urgency around AI, governance challenges within MLS organizations, and whether the industry is structurally capable of adapting to rapid technological change. The conversation explores the implications of AI on MLS staffing, vendor relationships, compliance, data control, and long-term organizational viability. They also debate whether the traditional industry model — boards, committees, slow decision-making — can keep pace with the accelerating speed of AI innovation. Key Takeaways AI is accelerating faster than the industry can process. The timeline for disruption is shrinking dramatically compared to past technology shifts. Every MLS function may be automatable. Compliance, customer service, and operational roles are increasingly viable for AI replacement. Speed is now a strategic advantage. Current governance models and decision-making structures may be too slow for what's coming. Ownership, governance, and culture are the real strategic issues. These are the only planning conversations that matter right now. Vendor dynamics may shift. AI lowers the barrier to building software, potentially reshaping the vendor landscape. Entrepreneurial opportunity is expanding. While traditional job paths may shrink, AI creates massive opportunity for independent builders. Data control debates continue. The tension between protection, access, and innovation remains unresolved. The industry must become more nimble. Adaptability — not certainty — will determine who survives the next phase. Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 2/12/26 | Zillow's win sends Compass spinning | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg go live to break down major news shaking real estate tech: a judge rules decisively in Zillow's favor against Compass's injunction, reshaping the conversation around exclusive listings and distribution. They also recap Inman, including leadership perspectives, vendor pitches, and the ongoing debate around AI's role in real estate—optimism mixed with caution. Key Takeaways Zillow wins the injunction: The court blocks Compass's attempt to stop Zillow from enforcing its listing rules, signaling a strong legal position for Zillow. Implications for Compass & MLSs: The ruling challenges Compass's three-phase marketing strategy and shifts attention to MLS policies and enforcement. Inman recap: Strong attendance, notable executive interviews, shade around the Compass/Anywhere deal, and lively "New Kids on the Block" vendor pitches. AI sentiment: Widespread interest with cautious optimism—tools may enhance agents, but uncertainty remains about scope and impact. Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 1/28/26 | Jack Miller on Lists, Trends, Marketplaces and CoStar. | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg are joined by Jack Miller (President & CEO of T3 Sixty) for a wide-ranging discussion on the SP 200, changes to T3's ranking methodology, brokerage business models, agent economics, consolidation, and the future of the MLS as a comprehensive marketplace. Key Takeaways SP 200 methodology update: Rankings now factor in future impact, not just past performance, leading to notable shifts in the Top 10. Agent economics by model: Traditional brokerages show higher average agent income, while fee-based and capped models emphasize unit economics. Brokerage costs: The critical metric is cost per transaction and cost per agent—not just GAAP net income. Teams vs. platforms: High-producing agents increasingly partner with platforms (Compass, Place, Side) instead of building large internal teams. MLS under pressure: Preserving a comprehensive marketplace is the key challenge as private and delayed listings increase. Consolidation continues: Industry consolidation is ongoing, but not near an end-state oligopoly. Portals vs. brokerages: Compass and Zillow are shaping industry direction in different ways, with contrasting strengths and strategies. Links Consulting Trends Industry Rankings Sp200 Rankings Industry News Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 1/21/26 | Can You Regulate "Public Marketing"? | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg open the episode by honoring Glenn Kelman's retirement from Redfin, reflecting on his leadership style, industry impact, and memorable moments. The conversation then pivots to new state-level legislation in Wisconsin and Washington targeting listing transparency, and whether laws attempting to regulate "public marketing" will actually change broker behavior—or simply create loopholes. Key Takeaways Glenn Kelman's legacy: Widely regarded as a first-ballot industry Hall of Famer for his longevity, candor, and mission-driven leadership at Redfin. Marketing vs. data: "Marketing" a listing is not the same as disclosing full MLS data—an important distinction lawmakers may be overlooking. Legislation limits: New laws requiring public marketing are difficult to define and enforce, and may fail to prevent private or limited-exposure listings. Free market tension: Over-regulation can lead to workarounds and unintended consequences rather than the transparency it aims to create. MLS role evolving: MLS participation is increasingly seen as a trade-off rather than a necessity, though inertia and seller expectations remain powerful forces. Links Satirical Realtor Video Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 1/14/26 | Compass Closes, CoStar Cuts, TAN Stirs the Pot. | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob and Greg dive into a packed week in real estate: the Compass–Anywhere deal officially closes, CoStar announces major spending cuts for Homes.com, and the recently settled Top Agent Network lawsuit raises big questions about the future of Clear Cooperation. They debate what these moves mean for MLSs, brokers, and portals—and preview the industry shake-ups still to come. Key Takeaways MLS Reset is sold out, with Rob returning as a featured speaker. Compass–Anywhere deal closes, surprising some who expected DOJ interference. CoStar cuts Homes.com spending by 35%, signaling a shift in strategy but not an exit from residential. Debate over Homes.com's future: Will CoStar pivot, partner with brokerages, or rethink its model? Top Agent Network settlement surfaces new guidance from NAR, suggesting TAN may not violate Clear Cooperation—potentially reshaping private-listing practices. Rob and Greg strongly disagree on the long-term impact of the TAN news and the strength of private networks. Upcoming injunction ruling (Zillow vs. NAR/DOJ context) may matter less than expected depending on how Compass positions itself. Links Compass Article Greg Hague Guest Post Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 1/7/26 | What if the MLS Becomes Optional? | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview In this episode, Rob and Greg dive into the implications of a future where exclusive listings become the industry norm. They explore how this shift could reshape brokerages, MLS operations, agent recruitment, consumer transparency, and portal business models. With a slow news week in real estate, the discussion becomes a deep speculative analysis of what happens if the market fully embraces private listing networks, how big brokers consolidate power, and whether the MLS becomes a "nice to have" rather than a necessity. They also touch on political factors, Zillow vs. Homes.com strategy, and how agents might adapt in a less transparent ecosystem. Key Takeaways Exclusive listings could dramatically shift power to large brokerages, enabling stronger recruitment flywheels and disadvantaging boutique firms. Big brokers may form alliances to consolidate private listing access, leaving smaller shops struggling to compete. MLSs risk becoming secondary tools—useful but no longer essential—if private networks supply the bulk of market inventory. Consumer transparency may decline if days-on-market and price-change history disappear, increasing agent value as data interpreters. Portal strategies (Zillow, Homes.com) may need to adapt, especially if sellers aren't willing to pay for exposure under an exclusive model. The industry still misunderstands exclusive listings, which are less about double-ending and more about recruiting, retention, and leverage. Market cycles and seller psychology remain central, as many sellers still prefer full exposure while others choose convenience and certainty. Political housing policy may shift unexpectedly, though current geopolitical chaos makes predictions uncertain. Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
| 12/31/25 | Forecast 2026: Mortgage Rates, MLS Wars, and Industry Consolidations | The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player! Overview Rob Hahn and Greg Robertson close out the year with their annual predictions episode. They debate where housing transactions, interest rates, and home prices are headed, then turn to broader market forecasts. The conversation shifts to industry-specific predictions around lawsuits, private listings, MLS policy, portal strategy, and where consolidation may reshape brokerages and real estate technology next. Key Takeaways Existing home sales, interest rates, and median home price predictions — with very different rationales. Why mortgage rates may be driven more by the bond market than the Fed. Bold calls on NASDAQ, gold, and Bitcoin. Compass vs. Zillow and the future of private listings. A potential overturning of the NAR settlement and what that would mean for the industry. Why forms litigation could be the next major legal battleground. What portals like Zillow, Realtor.com, and Homes.com may need to change. Predictions around major brokerage, franchise, and proptech consolidation. MLSs redefining participants, IDX access, and control of listing data. Connect with Rob and Greg Rob's Website Greg's Website Watch us on YouTube Our Sponsors: Cotality Notorious VIP The Giant Steps Job Board Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios | — | ||||||
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