Justin Riddle Podcast

In this episode of the Justin Riddle Podcast, Justin dives into the concept of Knightian Freedom where large enough computational spaces become intractably complex to the point where maybe freewill is possible. The focus of this episode is a paper put out by Hartmut Neven (of Google’s Quantum AI Lab) and colleagues from 2021 entitled “Do robots powered by a quantum processor have the freedom to swerve?” This paper discusses how the exponentially large spaces that quantum computers evolve into are so large that they cannot be represented or simulated on digital computers. The size is so vast that it would take a computer the size of the universe computing for trillions of years to simulate even a few femtoseconds of the quantum computers that are about to be commonplace. Similar to modern AI, we will won’t be able to understand why a quantum computer generated the output that it did and perhaps this is the essential ingredient that leads to freewill. Rampant incomputable complexity is freewill. Second, Hartmut and colleagues propose a simple experiment to reveal whether or not there are additional factors that play into what output is generated by a quantum computer. Assume you run a quantum circuit that generates a perfect uniform distribution between many different possible outputs. Then, you observe that the quantum computer does not behave as if there was a uniform distribution, but instead selects one of those possible outputs more often. This is the ‘preference’ of the quantum computer. Next, you develop a circuit to amplify these deviations from uniformity with the intention of amplifying the probability of entering into that preferred state. Now, we have essentially created a ‘happy circuit’ which embraces the quirky preference of our quantum computer. Finally, you can correlate deviations from this happy state to psychological data in an effort to build up a taxonomy of subjective experiences that the quantum computer can enter into. Finally, you embed the quantum computer with its happy circuit into an artificial neural network such that errors produced by the AI push the quantum computer away from happiness and this unhappiness is fed back into the AI. Now we have created an AI system with quantum feelings! Will this newfound sense of subjectivity enable more effective AI systems or will the AI get bogged down by a spiral of despair and refuse to compute?! All of these questions and more are explored here. Enjoy!

In episode 40 of the Justin Riddle Podcast, Justin provides an update of the Nested Observer Windows (NOW) Model. The paper describing this theory was recently published in the open-access Neuroscience of Consciousness journal (link below) and this video is an extended version of the Plenary talk that Justin gave at the Science of Consciousness conference in April of 2024 in Tucson, AZ (link below to conference recording). The NOW Model describes the mind as a nested hierarchical system in which there are many different cognitive systems within the brain at multiple scales. We are familiar with neuron-centric theories of consciousness, and yet why are we so fixated on the level of the neuron. There are synapses that comprise the neuron, there are microtubule systems within the neurons that appear to be electrically active, and there are neuronal population dynamics above the neuron which display prominent electrical properties. The cellular level is one level within a multi-scalar system. Evidence from cognitive neuroscience is suggesting that the low-frequency macroscopic electrical activity in the brain is closest correlated to cognition and brain stimulation techniques that drive these neural oscillations can reproducibly create changes in cognition. Therefore, it appears that these macroscopic scales are “causally” relevant to cognition. How then do all of these multiple levels connect to each other? Observations from neuroscience show us that these multiple scales are electrically coupled to each other, a phenomenon called cross-frequency coupling. With coupling across these multiple scales, there is a mechanism for how information processed at different scales can be communicated up and down the nested hierarchy of the brain. The NOW Model essentially takes cross-frequency coupling very seriously. Your mind is at the apex, the top, of the brain hierarchical system and there are nested cognitive processing systems within you. A model by which there are nested cognitive systems explains a whole range of psychological phenomena that are not current explainable under single-level neuron theories of consciousness. For example, the fact that we are only aware of a high level of abstraction of our experience and yet can interact with a rich perceptual landscape and initiated complex motor movements can be explained by an interaction between ourself at the slow apex and the lower levels. Another explanation is how slow our cognition really is: the NOW Model suggests that we are operating in the time range of 1 cycle per second or even slower. Our thoughts are sluggish and filled with abstraction (perhaps a key to intelligence) but contain the richness of the faster systems. Beyond capturing a deeper range of every day experiences, the NOW Model also readily accounts for dissociative identity disorder and new psychotherapy techniques that conceptualize the self as a family (internal family systems). This is just the tip of the iceberg from changing our self-conceptualization from singular into a multiplicity of nested systems. There is a lot of work to be done in this space to validate the potential cognitive reality of the NOW Model!

In episode 38 of the quantum consciousness series, Justin Riddle takes on the concept of the multiverse and provides arguments for why he thinks we live in a single universe. The concept of the multiverse arose from the recognition that at the fundamental level quantum systems are splitting into different possible futures. This split in space-time reality if taken at face value implies that the universe is splitting into multiple parallel universes in which slightly different events take place. However, quantum mechanics is also faced with a measurement process by which these parallel universes are destroyed and “collapsed” down to a single reality of what actually happens. This duality between a superposition of multiple possible realities and a measurement that reduces the probability space down to a single universe is the fundamental mystery at the heart of quantum mechanics. The tricky bit is that we live in a culture that more readily accepts the multiverse interpretation of quantum mechanics and is hesitant to dive into the murky depths of wave function collapse theories. For example, Roger Penrose describes a mechanism why which wave function collapse occurs at a specific threshold because these parallel universes in possibility space are unstable and collapse. This “objective reduction” theory of wave function collapse is still mostly considered as a fringe and unsubstantiated theory (although the times are slowly changing). To assert the universe and reject the multiverse is to take wave function collapse seriously! As we enter the quantum information age, society will start to get used to thinking about a digital information state that is chosen as input into a quantum computer, then from this state a wave function evolves and these possible realities interfere with each other. Finally, the system is measured again and digital information is extracted from the system. Computation in the future will be a hybrid of digital and quantum computation in a dualistic interplay. From this perspective, the idea that each of those possibilities is dissociated from each other into a multiverse just does not fit with the idea of interference patterns and quantum computation. If all the suboptimal solutions of a quantum computation are different parallel universe that never interact, then this undermines the concept of quantum computation. Finally, at the core of the multiverse is the idea that everything is random and nothing happens for a reason. We just happen to be in the universe that worked out despite countless failed universes all around us. This mechanism of action at the core of the idea is a bit too overly simple and reverts into more nihilistic physicalism. From a human outlook, the multiverse is another tenant of nihilism that challenges the idea that your choices matter, you are real, and there is something meaningful occurring in the universe.

In episode 36 of the quantum consciousness series, Justin Riddle describes the popular simulation hypothesis and discusses the implication of running the simulation using quantum computers. First off, Justin makes the argument that the foundation of the simulation hypothesis is strictly based in a digital computer framework. If the world is deterministic and digitizable, then it could in principle be simulated. But, if the world is quantum mechanical – with superposition, measurement, and entanglement – then the world might be non-deterministic or require simulation of the entire universe to capture all the necessary information to make the simulation perfect. Luckily, quantum computer scientists have been working on the concept of simulation for decades. Universal quantum simulation is the theory that if you set up a quantum computer to have the same inputs and the same quantum circuit, then you will get the same probability distribution on different quantum computers. However, when you measure that output, then you get a random digital output drawn from that probability distribution. This means that you can simulate the wave function but measurement fundamentally disrupts the simulation and creates divergence. If you were attempting to simulate a quantum system, then you simulation would start to diverge with each subsequent measurement and by the time you are multiple measurements into the future, reality might be unrecognizably different from the simulation. This massively reduced the controllability and the conclusion is reached that a quantum simulation that fully approximates the world is not sustainable for any substantial amount of time. Second is the problem of scaling. In a digital computer, you can write code that derives a more complicated world from some simple principles. However, in a quantum system, the informational complexity of the system explodes exponentially at every evolution of the wave function. Scientists running quantum simulations of molecular interactions for example are looking to create quantum computers with comparable complexity to those chemical systems in order to simulate them. This is a challenge for the simulation hypothesis because the creator of the simulation would need to have a computer as big as the universe itself in order to run the simulation – there does not appear to be any effective compression techniques for quantum computers. Third, the no-cloning theorem of quantum mechanics states that each wave function is uniquely identifiable and cannot be copied in principle. While the probability distribution of a quantum system can be approximated by other quantum computers, the array of entanglement relationships of a quantum system to the world at large cannot be simulated. This means that any quantum simulation will not be a perfect replication in principle, which could lead to an uncanny valley where the simulation is missing something and appears fake despite attempts to enhance the realism. With all of these metaphysical arguments in mind, there is still a persistent phenomenology of feeling like you are in a simulation. For example, high doses of psychedelic drugs can induce the dissociative feeling that everything around you is fake and this is the first moment of your life. If you were a quantum computer living within a physical brain, then the experience of accessing the data of your brain might be akin to the feeling of living in a simulation. Here you are in the moment collapsing the wave function and entering unique moments of time, but the data you are accessing in your brain contains the narrative construct of your life and knowledge. Hence, a removal of typical “neural access” might create the perception of living in a simulation. Lots to think about in this one! Hope you enjoy

In episode 34 of the Quantum Consciousness series, Justin Riddle puts forth a defense of freewill. In a deterministic universe guided by physical principles, there is no room for freewill. Surely, we must succumb to the crushing reality that our choices do not matter, that the self is an illusion, and that the very concept of time is illusory – nothing more than a social construct or hallucinations. While this is indeed the typical mainstream opinion on the state of our consciousness, quantum mechanics offers some chance that we could escape from determinism. The Schrodinger’s equation explains that quantum systems evolve into a superposition of multiple different possible futures. Then, upon measurement, the wave function of possibilities collapses into a definitive reality. But this process is apparently random. The stochastic (random) nature of this process leaves room for something beyond pure determinism. Perhaps it is simply probabilistic, and not deterministic, or perhaps there is some chance that consciousness could impose its will on this collapse process. At the very least, if freewill is not illusion, the only apparent room for its influence is at this moment of collapse. In this episode, we explore three different ways in which freewill could find its way into the collapse of the wave function. In the first model, the superposition provides the choices for possible futures. These choices are given to the mind, and the mind chooses which of these options to collapse into the physical world. Henry Stapp and John von Neumann postulated that this could be the case, but there must be additional checks from nature on this multiple-choice selection process. The second framing is through the quantum Zeno effect, where you have the option to pay attention to some series of thoughts or to let those thoughts go. This ability of “free won’t” could be a way by which the mind is able to influence the rate and timing of collapse of the wave function rather than the actual choice within the probability distribution. The third and final way that is presented is defined as “form will”. In this model, the human mind chooses a set of values, or forms, that are applied to a situation. Instead of choosing a particular behavior or response, the mind applies a flavor of quantum algorithms to the problem and then whatever the resulting output of that quantum computation is will determine the actual actions that are carried out. In all, each of these three manners for freewill to influence the physical world are speculative and require there to be large-scale quantum computers within the brain. In my opinion, these new models of freewill are necessary for us to escape the crushing nihilism that is inherent to a physicalist / determinist reality.

In episode 32 of the quantum consciousness series, Justin Riddle interviews Andres Gomez-Emilsson, the director of research of the Qualia Research Institute. Andres is passionate about understanding qualia, which is the feeling and quality of subjective experience. In this interview, we discuss many of Andres’ theories: mathematical fictionalism, symmetry of valence theory, neural annealing as it pertains to psychedelic therapy, and antitolerance medications to reduce suffering. First up, we discuss the nature of qualia and whether or not there can be a universal mathematical description of subjective experience. Andres posits that the experience of having a thought should not be confused with the thought itself. Therefore, any attempt at mathematical description will be wrapped up within the experience of the person suggesting the mathematics. As he states, mathematics is as real as the Lord of the Rings, a great story that we can tell, but not to be confused with reality itself. Next up, we discuss his symmetry of valence theory which describes that the imagination of certain geometric patterns imbues a sense of well-being whereas other patterns are anxiogenic. The geometric patterns that lead to positive valence (positive emotional experiences) are those shapes recognized as sacred geometry. However, Andres cautions that because these “sacred” geometric shapes generate well-being, people have used this reproducible experience to peddle New Age metaphysics. We should be cautious of the ability to generate positive experience as it can be used to manipulate people into buying into particular belief systems. Third, we discuss recent findings that single dose psilocybin in a therapeutic context can produce a lasting reduction in symptoms of depression. Andres posits that this could be explained as a form of neural annealing. The mind “heats up” and breaks through discordant neural pathways and through neural plasticity during the psychedelic experience will allow for the formation of new neural pathways with higher resonant properties consistent with positive valence. This contributes to Andres’ overall ontological model of reality in which the universe is a unified field of experience that is pinched off into individuals. Here, he starts with an unbroken unity of all things that is topologically segmented into individuals. Finally, Andres is a devout hedonist with the long-term goal of reducing suffering. His group at the Qualia Research Institute is investigating medications that reduce adaptation to molecules over long-term use. Go check out Andres’ YouTube channel and the Qualia Research Institute website!

In episode 30 of the Quantum Consciousness series, Justin Riddle sits down with Stuart Hameroff to get an update on current events in the Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch-OR) Model. This interview took place on August 30th, 2022 in his home in Tucson, AZ. The interview covered four major topics. Our discussion of these topics is interleaved with my reaction, summary, and commentary on the topic of discussion. First, we discussed a recent submitted study that found coherent transmission of excitons between tubulin proteins in a microtubule. This study provides evidence for long range quantum coherence in microtubules, which is a requirement for the Orch-OR model to be grounded in microtubule function. Second, Stuart explains some unpublished pilot data that find superradiant photon emission in microtubules for multiple seconds. This finding has multiple implications. First off, this could be evidence of sustained quantum coherence in microtubule on the order of fractions of a second to multiple seconds. If true, then this implies that the slow cognitive processes of the human mind could be instantiated in slower quantum computations. In addition, this implies that coherent light emission could be a means by which multiple microtubules become entangled to form a network of quantum bits – in essence, a quantum computer. For the third topic, we discuss a recent review paper published by Stuart that explores the idea that the brain is organized in a biological hierarchy spanning multiple spatiotemporal scales. A collaborator of his, Anirban Bandyopadhyay, claims to have recorded coherent kilohertz and megahertz electrical activity from the scalp of humans in what he calls a dodecogram. This data is currently unpublished and I am personally skeptical as this would require coherent activity in this very fast frequency domain across a large spatial swath of cortex to be picked up from the scalp. At this point, I ask a series of questions to Stuart on the relationship between human cognition and microtubule function. The Orch-OR model claims that slow human cognition is a “beat” generated from much faster microtubule function. However, in my view, this beat explanation suggest that human cognition might be emergent, or epiphenomenal, which is not something that Stuart or myself are comfortable with. Finally, we discuss the recent controversy surrounding a study conducted to test the so-called “Diosi-Penrose objective reduction” model. In short another researcher proposed a similar theory to Penrose’s objective reduction model of wave function collapse. In this other theory, the collapse of the wave function was suggested to emit radiation. In this recent experimental study, they found no evidence of radiation emission upon collapse of the wave function. Therefore, the authors of this study concluded that the Diosi OR model was incorrect, but then drew the conclusion that therefore Orch-OR and Penrose OR are not supported by evidence. Stuart refutes this by explaining that Penrose OR does not propose the emission of radiation. I have included chapters in this video so that you can skip to the interview if you so desire. I hope you enjoy!

In episode 28 of the Quantum Consciousness series, Justin Riddle describes how quantum teleportation works and wonders whether a quantum computer mind could be teleported out of the body. The episode begins with a discussion of the bizarre, yet common, experience of leaving one’s body during a traumatic event to observe the unfolding of events from the outside. These near-death experiences are baffling to scientists, and often dismissed as an unusual chemical or electrical fluctuation in the brain. However, within the quantum computational framework there is a genuine way to teleport quantum information between physical systems. If we were to discover that the human mind is indeed a quantum computer within the brain, then it is at least possible, if not likely, that the mind could teleport outside of the brain. In this episode, the basic component for how to entangle quantum bits and how to teleport quantum information between quantum bits is described. Then, the biological plausibility of teleporting quantum information within the brain is explored. The episode wraps up with a discussion on the nature of quantum information and speculations on the possibility of future forms of computation that utilize the fractal organization of biological systems. Finally, the phenomenon of reincarnation and the possibility of life after the death of the body are pondered. Does the impossible only seem impossible because we have yet to create the technology to replicate the mysteries of nature?

In episode 26 of the Quantum Consciousness series, Justin Riddle discusses Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle: the idea that every quantum bit comprises a bit of information and a bit of entropy such that knowledge of one dimension reduced knowledge of the other. We can think of each qubit has having two perpendicular axes: zero/one and plus/minus. The state of the qubit represents a point moving around on these axes. When you measure a qubit in the zero/one dimension, then it ends up getting reduced to a zero or one. From that state, the plus/minus dimension is now equal probability. By knowing about one dimension, we induce entropy in the other. You can only make one measurement at a time, so it is impossible to know whether the system is zero/one and plus/minus at the same time. In practice, physical systems, like an atom, will exhibit uncertainty between their position and momentum. This is more than just our knowledge of the system. When you know the momentum, the position is maximally smeared out across all possible options. This changes what the future of the system will look like. Biology might be leveraging measurement to change the future of physical systems like ions. In an ion channel, the center of the ion channel is so small that the ion gets spatially measured when passing through the channel. This has a dramatic effect on the momentum of the ion which could facilitate the transport of the ion to other receptor proteins. In addition, the uncertainty principle might be relevant to understanding human cognition, in that our knowledge of certain properties might coexist within an uncertainty relationship like that of position and momentum. By learning about one property, we reduce our knowledge of the other property. This is quite the divergence from classical models of human cognition. Finally, a speculation on how the uncertainty principle might be reflective of some deeper uncertainty in ascertaining existential truth. Carl Jung suggested that we can only ever reach a half truth, and that the core of reality is brimming with paradoxes. The more you get closer to some truth, the further you are from its complimentary opposite, which is also true. This form of cosmic censorship through paradox could be the ultimate expression of the uncertainty principle. Join me on this exciting delve into the mysteries of human consciousness through the lens of quantum mechanics.

In episode 24 of the Quantum Consciousness series, Justin Riddle discusses why neuroscience is in need of a quantum revolution. This revolution is underway in the field of information technology and low-level biology. Quantum computers are actively being developed and are on the precipice of overcoming the computational power of digital computers. Meanwhile, biology is increasingly acknowledging the role that quantum mechanics plays in various processes, including photosynthesis and magnetic-field perception in birds. But what about neuroscience? Could quantum mechanics contribute to neural function and directly to our conscious experience? There are quite a few reasons why quantum computers align with the human experience: (1) Quantum computer design encourages the creation of a single large system, similar to the creation of single self within a body. (2) The collapse of the wave function in quantum mechanics may provide room for freewill. (3) Non-local influences in quantum mechanics provide novel ways to describe meaning beyond arbitrary associations in a physical world. While quantum mechanics provides novel solutions to solving the mysteries of consciousness, neuroscience reveals that the strongest correlate to human cognition is low-frequency electrical fluctuations in the brain. After a brief survey of recent research in the neural oscillatory basis of cognition, the potential alignment between neural oscillations and principles of quantum mechanics are discussed. While this connection is currently speculative, computational models of cognition are pointing towards human rationality exhibiting principles of quantum mechanics. There could be a very near future where descriptions of human psychology are quantum mechanical in nature and the parameters of these models relate to neural oscillations in the brain. While the details for how a quantum computer could be implemented in the brain is of critical need, cognitive neuroscience research can move forward utilizing these ideas in the meantime.

In episode 22 of the Quantum Consciousness series, Justin Riddle discusses the quantum Zeno effect, the idea that with rapid measurement a system can be locked into its current state indefinitely. In the previous episode, we talked about how movement is the transition of a system from a fixed physical state into a superposition of many different states, and then upon measurement again will end up in a new state. However, it takes time for the wavefunction to evolve into a broad enough superposition with sufficient chance of ending up in a new location. So, if you make a measurement really quickly, then the system will most likely stay in the same place that it started. This leads to some strange scenarios such as a radioactive isotope that never decays as long as you keep applying rapid measurement. Henry Stapp theorized that the quantum Zeno effect may be the primary mechanism for how effortful attention makes an impact on brain activity. First, the quantum computing mind is presented with multiple options for what to do or think next; each of these options is generated by the brain. Now the mind has a choice of which option to make a reality. The mind pays attention to this thought and with enough effortful attention, this attention will change the brain and manifest the decision. The decision to choose one thought over another is a collapse of the wavefunction towards that physical outcome; however, a single collapse may not be sufficient to change the brain. With repeated collapses of the wavefunction towards that choice, the brain will get locked into that physical state and the desired choice will start to take effect. We wrap up the episode thinking about obsessive-compulsive disorder, a psychiatric illness where it is difficult to break a mental habit. Can you harness your quantum mind to change your digital brain? Find out in this episode!

In episode 20 of the Quantum Consciousness series, Justin Riddle discusses language as fundamental to a description of reality. It’s tempting to view linguistics as a luxury science only for humans with some free time on their hands. But language is fundamentally mysterious. Just as mathematics cannot be reduced down to simple principles, language has similarly avoided an easy description. Could it be because language is core to how our minds think at a fundamental level and is not just a tool used for communication? In this episode, we discuss the idea that language is the programming of our computational self. On a digital computer level, our code is like that of DNA – it can be copied directly. But at a quantum computer level, wave functions are not allowed to be copied directly (the no-cloning theorem). It goes to reason that quantum information requires a new type of information copying to occur: perhaps the language of quantum computers is more akin to a schema, motif, or meme. Finally, if we accept that the human mind is plugged into a fractal matrix that connects to the universe at a grander scale, then we must find some third type of language to describe the functioning of our fractal computing self. Borrowing from Susan Blackmore’s terminology, we use the word “teme” to describe a type of pure meaning that does not require interpretation but goes beyond any individual human. With these descriptions, we find ourselves with two types of information that appear to be polar opposites: (1) digital information that is arbitrary, and (2) universal meaning which is anything but arbitrary. The field of linguistics has grappled with these types of information when trying to describe the origin of language. Is language built from arbitrary associations and thus determined primarily by culture and history, or is there some universal grammar that enables all humans to process language which transcends culture and history? How will these competing origins of language be resolved? Watch this episode to find out!

In episode 18 of the Quantum Consciousness series, Justin Riddle discusses the potential for a third form of computation beyond digital and quantum computation: fractal computation. In the metaphysical model presented in this series, the body is a digital computer, the mind is a quantum computer, and (now) the spirit is a fractal computer. First off, the concept of a fractal is introduced using examples of recursion, or self-reference, in computer science. Next, evidence for fractal resonance between scales of biology is presented along with some pioneer work that attempts to reconstruct fractal-like resonance within an artificial system. The fractal computer description provides the backdrop by which all quantum systems are embedded – each system interacts with scales that are larger and smaller than it. At the grandest level, each quantum computer is resonating with a web of entanglements at the scale of the whole universe. This framing is similar to David Bohm’s concept of the “implicate order” or “pilot-wave” as well as a Henry Stapp’s description of the wave function of the whole universe. Finally, the episode wraps up discussing some curious scientific findings by Rick Strassman that people tripping on DMT often report communicating with higher dimensional entities. While seemingly absurd, a radical empiricist must explain the origin of such experiences. Could it be that we are indeed plugged into a fractal computer, which could explain some our sense of spiritual connection to a higher purpose? We definitely have some fun philosophical musing in this episode. Enjoy!