KPFA - APEX Express

APEX Express is a weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. On this episode, host Miata Tan speaks with three guests from the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice (CCSJ), a leading community-based resource providing direct victim services for Asian Americans in San Francisco. They unpack CCSJ’s approach to policy change, community advocacy, and public education, and reveal how their Collective Knowledge Base Catalog captures lessons from their work. Important Links: Community Safety and Justice (CCSJ) CCSJ Collective Knowledge Base Catalog CCSJ‘s four founding partners are the Chinatown Community Development Center, Chinese for Affirmative Action, Chinese Progressive Association, and Community Youth Center. Transcript: [00:00:00] Miata Tan: Hello and welcome. You are tuning into APEX Express, a weekly radio show, uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans. I am your host, Miata Tan, and today we are focusing on community safety. The Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, also known as CCSJ, is the leading community-based resource in providing direct victim [00:01:00] services for Asian Americans in San Francisco. The four founding partners of the Coalition are Chinatown Community Development Center, Chinese for Affirmative Action, Chinese Progressive Association, and the Community Youth Center. You might have heard of some of these orgs. Today we are joined by three incredibly hardworking individuals who are shaping this work. First up is Janice Li, the Coalition Director. Here she is unpacking the history of the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, and the social moment in which it was formed in response to. Janice Li: Yeah, so we formed in 2019 and it was at a time where we were seeing a lot of high profile incidents impacting and harming our Asian American communities, particularly Chinese seniors. We were seeing it across the country due to rhetoric of the Trump administration at that time that was just throwing, oil onto fire and fanning the flames. [00:02:00] And we were seeing those high profile incidents right here in San Francisco. And the story I’ve been told, because I, I joined CCSJ as its Coalition Director in 2022, so it says a few years before I joined. But the story I’ve been told is that the Executive Directors, the staff at each of these four organizations, they kept seeing each other. At vigils and protests and rallies, and it was a lot of outpouring of community emotions and feelings after these high profile incidents. And the eds were like. It’s good that we’re seeing each other and coming together at these things, but like, what are we doing? How are we changing the material conditions of our communities? How are we using our history and our experience and the communities that we’ve been a part of for literally decades and making our communities safe and doing something that is more resilient than just. The immediate reactive responses that we often know happen [00:03:00] when there are incidents like this. Miata Tan: And when you say incidents could you speak to that a little bit more? Janice Li: Yeah. So there were, uh, some of the high profile incidents included a Chinese senior woman who was waiting for a bus at a MUNI stop who was just randomly attacked. And, there were scenes of her. Fighting back. And then I think that had become a real symbol of Asians rejecting that hate. And the violence that they were seeing. You know, at the same time we were seeing the spa shootings in Atlanta where there were, a number of Southeast Asian women. Killed in just completely senseless, uh, violence. And then, uh, we are seeing other, similar sort of high profile random incidents where Chinese seniors often where the victims whether harmed, or even killed in those incident. And we are all just trying to make sense of. What is happening? [00:04:00] And how do we help our communities heal first and foremost? It is hard to make sense of violence and also figure out how we stop it from happening, but how we do it in a way that is expansive and focused on making all of our communities better. Because the ways that we stop harm cannot be punitive for other individuals or other communities. And so I think that’s always been what’s really important for CCSJ is to have what we call a holistic view of community safety. Miata Tan: Now you might be wondering, what does a holistic view and approach to community safety look like in practice? From active policy campaigns to direct victim service support, the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice offers a range of different programs. Janice Li, the Coalition Director, categorizes this work into three different [00:05:00] buckets. Janice Li: It is responding to harm when it occurs, and that’s, you know, really centering victims and survivors and the harm that they faced and the healing that it takes to help those, folks. The second piece is really figuring out how do we change our systems so that they’re responsive to the needs of our communities. And what that looks like is a lot of policy change and a lot of policy implementation. It’s a lot of holding government accountable to what they should be doing. And the third piece is recognizing that our communities don’t exist in vacuums and all of our work needs to be underpinned by cross-racial healing and solidarity. To acknowledge that there are historic tensions and cultural tensions between different communities of color in particular, and to name it, we know that there are historic tensions here in San Francisco between the Black and Chinese communities. We have to name it. We have to see it, and we have to bring community [00:06:00] leaders together, along with our community members to find spaces where we can understand each other. And most importantly for me is to be able to share joy so that when conflict does occur, that we are there to be able to build bridges and communities as part of the healing that we, that has to happen. Miata Tan: Let’s zoom in on the direct victim services work that CCSJ offers. What does this look like exactly and how is the Coalition engaging the community? How do people learn about their programs? Janice Li: We receive referrals from everyone, but initially, and to this day, we still receive a number of referrals from the police department as well as the District Attorney’s Victim Services division, where, you know, the role that the police and the DA’s office play is really for the criminal justice proceedings. It is to go through. What that form of criminal justice accountability. Could look like, but it’s [00:07:00] not in that way, victim centered. So they reach out to community based organizations like Community Youth Center, CYC, which runs CCSJ, direct Victim Services Program to provide additional community. Based services for those victims. And CYC takes a case management approach. CYC has been around for decades and their history has been working, particularly with youth, particularly at risk youth. And they have a long history of taking a case management approach for supporting youth in all the ways that they need support. And so they use this approach now for people of all ages, but many of the victims that we serve are adults, and many of them are senior, and almost all of them are limited English proficient. So they need not only culturally competent support, but also in language support. And so the case management approach is we figure out what it is that person needs. And sometimes it’s mental health [00:08:00] services and sometimes it’s not. Sometimes it’s trying to figure out in home social services, sometimes it’s not. Sometimes for youth it might be figure out how to work with, SF Unified school district, our public school system you know, does that student need a transfer? It could be the world of things. I think the case management approach is to say, we have all of these possible tools, all of these forms of healing at our disposal, and we will bring all of those resources to the person who has been harmed to help their healing process. Miata Tan: I’m curious. I know we can’t speak to specific cases, but. how did this work evolve? what did it look like then and what does it look like today? Janice Li: What I would say is that every single case is so complex and what the needs of the victims are and for their families who might be trying to process, you know, the death of one of their loved ones. What that [00:09:00] healing looks like and what those needs are. There’s not one path, one route, one set of services that exist, but I think what is so important is to really center what those needs are. I think that the public discourse so much of the energy and intention ends up being put on the alleged perpetrator. Which I know there’s a sense of, well, if that person is punished, that’s accountability. But that doesn’t take into account. Putting back together the pieces of the lives that have been just shattered due to these awful, terrible, tragic incidents. And so what we’ve learned through the direct victim services that we provide in meeting harm when it occurs is sometimes it’s victims wake you up in the hospital and wondering, how am I going to take care of my kids? Oh my gosh, what if I lose my job? How am I gonna pay for this? I don’t speak English. I don’t understand what my doctors and nurses are telling me [00:10:00] right now. Has anyone contacted my family? What is going on? What I’ve seen from so many of these cases is that there aren’t people there. in the community to support those folks in that sort of like intimate way because the, the public discourse, the newspaper articles the TV news, it’s all about, that person who committed this crime, are they being punished harsh enough? While when you really think about healing is always going to have to be victim and survivor centered. Miata Tan: Janice Li describes this victim and survivor centered approach as a central pillar of the Coalition for Community Safety and Justices work. I asked her about how she sees people responding to the Coalition’s programming and who the communities they serve are. Janice Li: So the Direct Victim Services program is just one of the many, many programs that CCSJ runs. Um, we do a wide range of policy advocacy. Right now, we’ve been focused a lot [00:11:00] on transit safety, particularly muni safety. We do a lot of different kinds of community-based education. What we are seeing in our communities, and we do work across San Francisco. Is that people are just really grateful that there are folks that they trust in the community that are centering safety and what community safety looks like to us. Because our organizations have all been around for a really long time, we already are doing work in our communities. So like for example, CCDC, Chinatown Community Development Center, they’re one of the largest affordable housing nonprofits in the city. They have a very robust resident services program amongst the dozens of like apartment buildings and, large housing complexes that they have in their portfolio. And so, some of the folks that participate in programs might be CCDC residents. some of the folks participating in our programs are, folks that are part of CPA’s existing youth program called Youth MOJO. They might [00:12:00] be folks that CAA have engaged through their, immigrant parent voting Coalition, who are interested in learning more about youth safety in the schools. So we’re really pulling from our existing bases and existing communities and growing that of course. I think something that I’ve seen is that when there are really serious incidents of violence harming our community, one example Paul give, um, was a few years ago, there was a stabbing that occurred at a bakery called a Bakery in Chinatown, right there on Stockton Street. And it was a horrific incident. The person who was stabbed survived. And because that was in the heart of Chinatown in a very, very popular, well-known bakery. in the middle of the day there were so many folks in the Chinatown community who were they just wanted to know what was happening, and they were just so scared, like, could this happen to me? I go to that bakery, can I leave my apartment? Like I don’t know what’s going on. [00:13:00] So a lot of the times, one of the things that CCSJ does as part of our rapid response, beyond just serving and supporting the victim or victims and survivors themselves, is to ensure that we are either creating healing spaces for our communities, or at least disseminating accurate real-time information. I think that’s the ways that we can Be there for our communities because we know that the harm and the fears that exist expand much more beyond just the individuals who were directly impacted by, you know, whatever those incidents of harm are. Miata Tan: And of course, today we’ve been speaking a lot about the communities that you directly serve, which are more Asian American folks in San Francisco. But how do you think that connects to, I guess, the broader, myriad of demographics that, uh, that live here. Janice Li: Yeah. So, CCSJ being founded in 2019. We were founded at a time where because of these really [00:14:00] awful, tragic high profile incidents and community-based organizations like CA, a really stepping up to respond, it brought in really historic investments into specifically addressing Asian American and Pacific Islander hate, and violence and. What we knew that in that moment that this investment wasn’t going to be indefinite. We knew that. And so something that was really, really important was to be able to archive our learnings and be able to export this, share our. Finding, share, learning, share how we did what we did, why we did what we did, what worked, what didn’t work with the broader, committees here in San Francisco State beyond. I will say that one of the first things that we had done when I had started was create actual rapid response protocol. And I remember how so many places across California folks were reaching out to us, being like, oh, I heard that you do community safety [00:15:00] work in the Asian American community. What do you do when something happens because we’ve just heard from this client, or there was this incident that happened in our community. We just don’t know what to do. Just to be able to share our protocol, share what we’ve learned, why we did this, and say like, Hey, you translate and interpret this for how it works. In whatever community you’re in and you know, whatever community you serve. But so much of it is just like documenting your learning is documenting what you do. Um, and so I’m really proud that we’ve been able to do that through the CCSJ Knowledge Base. Miata Tan: That was Janice Li, the Coalition Director at the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, also known as CCSJ. As Janice mentioned, the Coalition is documenting the community safety resources in an online Knowledge Base. More on that later. Our next guest, Tei Huỳnh, will dive deeper into some of the educational workshops and trainings that CCSJ offers. You are tuned into APEX [00:16:00] Express on 94.1 KPFA​ [00:17:00] Welcome back to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA. I am your host, Miata Tan, and today we are talking about community safety. Tei Huỳnh is a Senior Program Coordinator at Chinese Progressive Association, one of the four organizations that comprise the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice. Here’s Tei discussing where their work sits within the Coalition. [00:18:00] Tei Huỳnh: CPA’s kind of piece of the pie with CCS J’s work has been to really offer political education to offer membership exchanges with, um, other organizations workshops and trainings for our working class membership base. And so we offer RJ trainings for young people as well as, in language, Cantonese restorative justice training. Miata Tan: For listeners who might not be familiar, could you help to define restorative justice? Tei Huỳnh: Restorative justice is this idea that when harm is done rather than like implementing retributive ways. To bring about justice. There are ways to restore relationships, to center relationships, and to focus efforts of making right relations. Restorative justice often includes like talking circles where like a harm doer or someone who caused harm, right? Someone who is the recipient of harm sit in circle and share stories and really vulnerably, like hear each other out. And so the [00:19:00] first step of restorative justice, 80% of it in communities is, is relationship building, community building. Miata Tan: These sorts of workshops and programs. What do they look like? Tei Huỳnh: In our restorative justice trainings we work with, we actually work with CYC, to have their youth join our young people. And most recently we’ve worked with another organization called, which works with Latina youth, we bring our youth together and we have, uh, a four-part training and we are doing things like talking about how to give an apology, right? We’re like roleplaying, conflict and slowing down and so there’s a bit of that, right? That it feels a little bit like counseling or just making space, learning how to like hold emotion. How do we like just sit with these feelings and develop the skill and the capacity to do that within ourselves. And to have difficult conversations beyond us too. And then there’s a part of it that is about political education. So trying to make that connection that as we learn to [00:20:00] be more accepting how does that actually look like in politics or like in our day-to-day life today? And does it, does it align? More often than not, right? Like they talk about in their classrooms that it is retributive justice that they’re learning about. Oh, you messed up, you’re sent out. Or like, oh, you get pink slip, whatever. Or if that’s not their personal experience, they can observe that their classmates who look differently than them might get that experience more often than not And so building beginning to build that empathy as well. Yeah. And then our adults also have, trainings and those are in Cantonese, which is so important. And the things that come up in those trainings are actually really about family dynamics. Our members really wanna know how do we good parents? When we heal our relationship, like learning to have those feelings, learning to locate and articulate our feelings. To get a Chinese mama to be like, I feel X, Y, Z. Elders to be more in touch with their emotions and then to want to apply that to their family life is amazing, to like know how to like talk through conversations, be a better [00:21:00] parent partner, whatever it may be. Miata Tan: Something to note about the workshops and tools that Tei is describing for us. Yes, it is in response to terrible acts of hate and violence, but there are other applications as well. Tei Huỳnh: And you know, we’ve seen a lot of leadership in our young people as well, so we started with a restorative justice cohort and young people were literally like, we wanna come back. Can we like help out? You know, and so we like had this track where young people got to be leaders to run their own restorative justice circle. It might sound like really basic, but some of the things we learn about is like how we like practice a script around moving through conflicts too. and that, and we also learn that conflict. It’s not bad. Shameful thing. This is actually what we hear a lot from our young people, is that these tools help them. With their friends, with their partners, with their mom. One kid was telling us how he was like going to [00:22:00] get mad about mom asking him to do the dishes he was able to slow down and talk about like how he feels. Sometimes I’m like, oh, are we like releasing little like parent counselors? You know what I mean? Uh, ’cause another young person told us about, yeah. When, when she would, she could feel tension between her and her father. She would slow down and start asking her, her what we call ears questions. and they would be able to slow down enough to have conversations as opposed to like an argument . It makes me think like how as a young person we are really not taught to communicate. We’re taught all of these things from what? Dominant media or we just like learn from the style of communication we receive in our home , and exposing young people to different options and to allow them to choose what best fits for them, what feels best for them. I think it’s a really, yeah, I wish I was exposed to that . Miata Tan: From younger people to adults, you have programs and workshops for lots of different folks. What are the community needs that this [00:23:00] healing work really helps to address? Tei Huỳnh: What a great question because our youth recently did a survey Within, um, MOJO and then they also did a survey of other young people in the city. And the biggest problem that they’re seeing right now is housing affordability because they’re getting like, pushed out they think about like, oh yeah, my really good friend now lives in El Sobrante. I can’t see my like, best friend we have youth coming from like Richmond, from the East Bay because they want to stay in relationship. And so the ways that, like the lack of affordability in the city for families, working class families has also impacted, our young peoples. Sense of health. And, this is actually a really beautiful extension of, growth, right? In what people are seeing termed as safety, From like a really tangible kind of safety previously safety was like not getting punched, interpersonal violence to now understanding safety from systemic violence as well, which includes, like housing and affordability or [00:24:00] gentrification. Miata Tan: Through the workshops that Tei runs through the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice Communities are also exposed to others with different lived experiences, including speakers from partner organizations to help make sense of things. Tei Huỳnh: It was a huge moment of like humanization. And restorative justice is really about seeing each other, I remember too, like after our guest speaker from A PSC, our young people were just so moved, and our young people saying like this was the first time that they’ve shared a room with someone who was formerly incarcerated. they were so moved with like, how funny he was, how smart he was, how all the things you know, and, and that there are all these stories to shed. We really bring in people to share about their lived experiences with our Asian American youth. And then people wanted to like follow up and also Mac from A PSC was so generous and wanted to help them with their college essays and people were like, [00:25:00] yes, they wanna keep talking to you. You know? Um, and that was really sweet. In our. Recent restorative justice work, and our most recent training with POed which works with Latina youth while we saw that it was harder for our young people to just, connect like that, that they were able, that there were like other ways that they were building relationships with Miata Tan: What were you seeing that went beyond language? Tei Huỳnh: I think it was really sweet to just see like people just trying, right? Like, I think as like young people, it’s like, it’s also really scary to like, go outside of your, your little bubble, I think as a young person, right? One year we were able to organize for our adult session and our youth session, our final session that happened on the same day. and so we had we had circles together, intergenerational, we brought in a bunch of translators and youth after that were so moved, I think one young person was [00:26:00] talking about how they only like. Chinese adults, they talk to other parents and to like hear these Chinese adults really trying, being really encouraging. There’s like something very healing. Restorative justice is not an easy topic for young people. I think at the first level it is about relationships in community to hold those harder feelings. I was really moved by this, a really shy young girl, like choosing to like walk and talk with another young person that they didn’t have like that much of a shared language, but Wiley was, they were just really trying to connect. There are moments like when the, youth, like during our break, would wanna put on music and would try to teach the other youth, how they dance to their music. You know, like it’s just, it was just like a cultural exchange of sorts too which is really sweet and really fun ​[00:27:00] [00:28:00] Miata Tan: You are tuned into APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans. I’m your host Miata Tan, and today we are [00:29:00] talking about community safety. Since 2019, the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, also known as CCSJ, has been leading the charge in helping Asian Americans in San Francisco to heal from instances of harm. From Direct Victim Services to Policy Work. The Coalition has a range of programs. Our next guest is Helen Ho, research and Evaluation manager at Chinese for affirmative action in San Francisco. Her research helps us to better understand the impact of these programs. Here’s Helen describing her role and the importance of CCS J’s evaluation Helen Ho: My role is to serve as a container for reflection and evaluation so that we can learn from what we’re doing, in the moment, we’re always so busy, too busy to kind of stop and, assess. And so my role is to have that [00:30:00] time set aside to assess and celebrate and reflect back to people what we’re doing. I was initially brought on through an idea that we wanted to build different metrics of community safety because right now the dominant measures of community safety, when you think about like, how do we measure safety, it’s crime rates. And that is a very one dimensional, singular, narrow definition of safety that then narrows our focus into what solutions are effective and available to us. And, and we also know that people’s sense of safety goes beyond what are the crime rates published by police departments and only relying on those statistics won’t capture the benefits of the work that community organizations and other entities that do more of this holistic long-term work. Miata Tan: The Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, has been around since 2019. So was this [00:31:00] process, uh, over these five years, or how did you come into this? Helen Ho: Yeah. The Coalition started in 2019, but I came on in. 2023, you know, in 2019 when they started, their main focus was rapid response because there were a lot of high profile incidents that really needed a coordinated community response. And over time they. Wanted to move beyond rapid response to more long-term prevention and, uh, restorative programming. And that’s when they were able to get more resources to build out those programs. So that’s why I came on, um, a bit later in the Coalition process when a lot of programs were already started or just about to launch. So what I get to do is to interview people that we’ve served and talk to them about. Their experiences of our programs, how they might have been transformed, how their perspectives might have changed and, and all of that. Then I get to do mini reports or memos and reflect that back to the people who run the programs. And it’s just so [00:32:00] rewarding to share with them the impact that they’ve had that they might not have heard of. ’cause they don’t have the time to talk to everyone . And also. Be an outside thought partner to share with them, okay, well this thing might not have worked and maybe you could think about doing something else. Miata Tan: Certainly sounds like really rewarding work. You’re at a stage where you’re able to really reflect back a lot of the learnings and, and, and work that’s being developed within these programs. Helen Ho: The first phase of this project was actually to more concretely conceptualize what safety is beyond just crime rates because there are many, Flaws with crime statistics. We know that they are under-reported. We know that they embed racial bias. But we also know that they don’t capture all the harm that our communities experience, like non-criminal hate acts or other kinds of harm, like being evicted that cause insecurity, instability, feelings [00:33:00] of not being safe, but would not be counted as a crime. So, Um, this involved talking to our Coalition members, learning about our programs, and really getting to the heart of what they. Conceptualized as safety and why they created the programs that they did. And then based on that developed, a set of pilot evaluations for different programs that we did based on those, ideas of what our, you know, ideal outcomes are. We want students to feel safe at school, not only physically, but emotionally and psychologically. We want them to feel like they have a trusted adult to go to when something is wrong, whether. They’re being bullied or maybe they’re having a hard time at home or, um, you know, their family, uh, someone lost their job and they need extra support. And that all, none of that would be captured in crime rates, but are very important for our sense of safety. So then I did a whole bunch of evaluations where I interviewed folks, tried to collect [00:34:00] quantitative data as well. And that process. Was incredibly rewarding for me because I really admire people who, uh, develop and implement programs. They’re doing the real work, you know, I’m not doing the real work. They’re doing the real work of actually, supporting our community members. But what I get to do is reflect back their work to them. ’cause in the moment they’re just so busy then, and, and many people when they’re doing this work, they’re like: Am I even doing, making an impact? Am I doing this well? And all they can think about is how can I, you know, what did I do wrong and how can I do better? And, and they don’t necessarily think about all the good that they’re doing ’cause they don’t give themselves the time to appreciate their own work because they’re always trying to do better for our communities. Miata Tan: The Coalition for Community Safety and Justice is cataloging their learnings online in what they call a Collective Knowledge Base. Janice describes the [00:35:00] Knowledge Base as the endpoint of a long process to better understand the Coalition’s work. Helen Ho: The Coalition for Community Safety and Justice was doing something, was building something new in San Francisco, and the idea was that there may be other communities across the country who are trying to build something similar and contexts across country, across communities. They’re all different, but there is something maybe we could share and learn from each other. And so with this Knowledge Base Catalog, the impetus was to recognize that we’re not experts. we’re just trying things, building things, and we, we make a lot of mistakes and we’re just doing the best that we can, but we’ve learned something and we’ll, we’ll share it. and this. Kind of approach really reminded me of a recipe book where you develop a recipe after many, many, many times of testing and tweaking and [00:36:00] building, and there’s a recipe that really works for you. And then you can share it. And if you explain, you know, the different steps and some of the. You know, ingredients that are helpful, the techniques and why you chose to do certain things. Someone else can look at that recipe and tweak it how they want. And make it suitable for your own community and context. and once I got onto that analogy it blossomed to something else because. Also the act of creating food, like cooking and feeding our communities is something so important , and yet sometimes it can be seen as not serious. And that’s really similar to community Safety is a very serious issue. But then. There’s some worries that when we talk about like restoration and healing that’s not a serious enough reaction response to safety issues, but when in fact it is crucial and essential, you know, healing and [00:37:00] restoration are crucial for our communities as much as cooking and feeding our communities and both are serious, even if some people think that they’re not serious. Miata Tan: I hear you. I love that metaphor with cooking and the recipe book as well. For our listeners, could you explain where the Knowledge Base Catalog lives online and how people can access it? Helen Ho: Sure. You can go to our website@CCSjsf.org and there’s a little tab that says Knowledge Base. And you can either access it through the PDF version where you can get all of the catalog entries in one file, or you can search our database and you can filter or search by different things that you’re interested in. So there a lot of programs have, cross functions or cross, aspects to them that might be of interest to you. So for example, if you. We’re interested in programs to cultivate trusted community figures so you can look at the different programs that we’ve done that in different contexts in housing, at schools, or in business [00:38:00] corridors, because when you cultivate those trusted figures, when something bad happens, people then know who to go to, and it’s much easier to access resources. You can also, if you’re interested in, in language programs, you know, how did we think about doing programming for immigrant communities in their native languages? You can look at our tags and look at all of the programs that are in language. So our Chinese language, restorative justice, or our Chinese language victim services. You can look at all the different ways that we’ve, done our programming in language and not just in terms of translating something that wasn’t English into Chinese, but creating something from the Chinese cultural perspective that would be more resonant with our community members. Miata Tan: How are you reflecting back this work through your research and the Knowledge Base Catalog? Helen Ho: Before each evaluation, I interviewed the implementers to understand, you know… what’s your vision of success? If your [00:39:00] program was successful beyond as wildest dreams what do you think you would see? What do you think people would say about it? And based on those answers, I was able to create some questions and, and measures to then understand. What you know, what assessment would look like in terms of these interviews with, um, program participants or collaborators. And so then I was able to reflect back in these memos about, insights that program participants learned or feelings that they, that they had or for. Program collaborators, what they’ve seen in their partnerships with us and what they appreciate about our approach and our programming. And also avenues that we could improve our programs. Because we know that harm and violence, although we often talk about them in terms of singular incidents, it’s actually a systemic issue. And systemic is a word that people throw around and we don’t even know. Like it’s so thrown around so much out. I, I don’t even remember what it means anymore, but. But we know that there are [00:40:00] big societal issues that cause harm. There’s poverty, there’s unaddressed mental health and behavioral health issues. There is just a lot of stress that is around that makes us. More tense and flare up and also, or have tensions flare up into conflict which makes us feel unsafe. And so there are policies that we can put in place to create a more. Complete instead of a patchwork system of support and resources so that people can feel more secure economically physically, uh, health wise. And all of that contributes to a, strong lasting and holistic sense of safety. Miata Tan: As Janice and Helen have both mentioned The Coalition was able to grow in part due to funding that was made during 2019 and 2020 when we were seeing more acts of hate and [00:41:00] violence against Asian Americans. California’s Stop the Hate program was one of those investments. Helen explains more about how the work has continued to expand. Helen Ho: Another reason why the Coalition has been able to evolve is the, government investment in these programs and holistic safety programming. So. The city of San Francisco has been really great through their grants in looking in funding, holistic programming for different racial and ethnic communities and the state. Also, through their Stop the Hate grant has been able to fund programming and also the research and evaluation work that allows us to learn and evolve. Improve and also. Take these learnings beyond when grant programs might end and programs might end, and so that we can hopefully hold onto this, these learnings and not have to start from scratch the next [00:42:00] time Miata Tan: Thank you for laying all that out, Helen. So it sounds like there’s a lot of different stakeholders that are really helping to aid this work and move it forward. What have you seen, like what are folks saying have had an impact on their community in a, in a positive way? Helen Ho: Yeah. There’s so much that. The Coalition has done and, and many different impacts. But one program that I evaluated, it was community Youth Center, CYC’s, School Outreach Program in which they have teams of adults regularly attending lunch periods or school release periods at several schools in the city. And the idea here is that. At lunchtime or at score release period, kids are free. They’re like, we’re done with class, we’re just gonna be out there wild. And they’re figuring how to navigating social relationships, how to be in the world, who they are. , That can come with a lot of conflict, [00:43:00] insecurity a lot of difficulties that then end up, if they escalate enough, could turn into harm. For example, it’s middle school kids are playing basketball and so when someone loses a game, they might start a argument and what the school outreach team would do is they’re there. They’ve already built relationships with the students. They can step in and say, Hey, what’s going on? Let’s talk about this. And they can prevent. Conflicts from escalating into physical harm and also create a teaching moment for students to learn how to resolve their conflicts, how to deal with their difficult emotions of losing and equipping them with tools in the future to then also navigate conflict and, and prevent harm. And so I was able to interview the school collaborators uh, administrators or deans to understand, you know, why did they call on CYC, why did they want to establish this partnership and let adults outside the school come into the [00:44:00] school? And they were just so appreciative of the expertise and experience of the team that they knew. That they could trust the team to develop warm, strong relationships with students of all races and, and identities. That there was not going to be a bias that these adults, the team would be approachable. And so this team brought in both the trust, not only social emotional skills and conflict navigation, but also the organization and responsibility of keeping students physically safe. Another program which is the development of in-language Chinese restorative justice programming and also restorative justice program for Asian American youth. And in interviewing the folks who went through these training programs, I myself learned, truly learned what restorative [00:45:00] justice is. Essentially restorative justice takes the approach that we should, not look to punishment for punishment’s sake, but to look at accountability and to restore what has been harmed or lost through, you know, an act of harm in order to do that, we actually have to build community you know, restoring after harm has been done requires relationships and trust for it to be most effective. And so what was really transformative for me was listening to. Youth, high schoolers learn about restorative justice, a completely new idea because so much of their life has been punitive at the home. They do something wrong, they’re punished at school, they do something wrong, they’re punished. And it’s just a default way of reacting to quote unquote wrong. But these youth learned. All of these different [00:46:00] skills for navigating conflict that truly transform the way that they relate to everyone in their life. youth were talking to me about, resolving conflicts with their parents. To believe that their parents could change too. So, you know, what does that have to do with criminal justice? Well, when we think about people who have harmed, a lot of times we’re hesitant to go through a restorative route where we just want them to take accountability rather than being punished for punishment’s sake for them to change their behavior. But one criticism or barrier to that is we think, oh, they can’t change. But you know, if your middle-aged immigrant parent who you thought could never change, could change the sky’s the limit in terms of who can change their behavior and be in a better relationship with you. Miata Tan: These workshops are so important in helping to really bring people together and also insight that change. Helen Ho: We also wanna look ahead to [00:47:00] deeper and longer term healing. And so what can we do to restore a sense of safety, a sense of community and especially, um, with a lot of heightened, uh, racial tensions, especially between Asian and black communities that you know, the media and other actors take advantage of our goal of the Coalition is to be able to deescalate those tensions and find ways for communities to see each other and work together and then realize that we can do more to help each other and prevent harm within and across our communities if we work together. For example, we’re doing a transit safety audit with our community members, where we’ve invited our community members who are in for our organization, mainly Chinese, immigrants who don’t speak English very well to come with us and ride. The bus lines that are most important to our community coming in and out of Chinatown [00:48:00] to assess what on this bus or this ride makes you feel safe or unsafe, and how can we change something to make you feel safe on the bus? it’s so important because public transportation is a lifeline for our community, And so we completed those bus ride alongs and folks are writing in their notebooks and they shared so many. Amazing observations and recommendations that we’re now compiling and writing a report to then recommend to, um, S-F-M-T-A, our transit agency the bus. Is one of the few places where a bunch of strangers are in close quarters, a bunch of strangers from many different walks of life. Many different communities are in close quarters, and we just have to learn how to exist with each other. And it could be a really great way for us to practice that skill if we could just do some public education on, how to ride the bus. Miata Tan: I asked [00:49:00] Helen about how she hopes people will access and build on the learnings in CCS J’s Collective Knowledge Base. Helen Ho: Each community will have its own needs and community dynamics And community resources. And so it’s hard to say that there’s a one size fits all approach, which is also why the recipe book approach is more fitting because everyone just needs to kind of take things, uh, and tweak it to their own contexts. I would just say that for taking it either statewide or nationwide, it’s just that something needs to be done in a coordinated fashion that understands the. Importance of long-term solutions for safety and holistic solutions for safety. The understands that harm is done when people’s needs are not met, and so we must refocus once we have responded to the crises in the moment of harm, that we [00:50:00] also look to long-term and long lasting community safety solutions. Miata Tan: So with this Knowledge Base, anyone can access it online. Who do you hope will take a peek inside? Helen Ho: Who do I hope would take a peek at the Knowledge Base? I would really love for other people who are at a crossroads just like we were in the early. Days who are scrambling, are building something new and are just in go, go, go mode to come look at some of what we’ve done so that they just don’t have to reinvent the wheel. They could just take something, take one of our templates or. Take some of our topics workshop topics. Something where it just saves them a bunch of time that they don’t have to figure it out and then they can move on to the next step of evolving their programs even more. Um, I think that’s my greatest hope. I think another this might be too cynical, but I also feel like with [00:51:00] the political. Interest waning in Asian American community safety, that there’s going to be a loss of resources. You know, hopefully we can get more resources to sustain these programs, but in reality, a lot of programs will not continue. And it is a tragedy because the people who have developed these programs and worked on them for years Have built so much knowledge and experience and when we just cut programs short, we lose it. We lose the people who have built not only the experience of running this program, but the relationships that they’ve built in our community that are so hard to replicate and build up again. So my hope is that in however many years when we get another influx of resources from when people care about Asian American community safety, again, that somewhere some will dust off this Knowledge Base. And again, not have [00:52:00] to start from scratch, but, start at a further point so that we can, again, evolve our approach and, and do better for our communities. Miata Tan: That’s really beautiful. Hoping that people for the future can access it. Helen Ho: Another thing about, people either from the future and also in this current moment when they’re also asking what’s being done. Because I think a part of feeling not safe is that no one’s coming to help me and the cynicism of no one’s doing anything about this. And and also. a withdrawal from our community saying, oh, our Asian, the Asian American community, they’re approaching it in the wrong way or not doing the right what, whatever it is that your criticism is. But my hope is that folks in our community, folks in the future, folks outside of our, you know, Asian American community, can come to this Knowledge Base and see what we’re doing. [00:53:00] Realize that there are, there is a lot of work being put into creating long-term, equitable, holistic safety solutions that can heal individuals in our community, heal our communities at a as a whole, and heal our relationships between communities. And there’s so much good being done and that. If more folks join in our collaborations or in our efforts to get more resources to sustain these programs, we can really continue doing great things. Miata Tan: With this Knowledge Base catalog, is there a way you hope it will continue to evolve to help better inform, I guess someone who might be on the other side of the country or in a totally different place? Miles away from San Francisco. Helen Ho: I would love to be able to do more evaluations and documenting of our work. I mean, we’re continually doing more and new stuff. , Even [00:54:00] in a period where we don’t have as many resources, we’re still doing a lot of work. For example. We are continuing our work to get SFPD to implement a language access policy that works for our communities. And we’re doing more and more work on that. And to be able to document that and share that new work would be really exciting. Um, and any other of our new initiatives I will say, going back to the recipe book analogy or metaphor, I don’t know if this is just me, but when I have a cookbook, it’s great. It’s like so long. There’s so many recipes. I only use three of them and I use those three all of the time. so that’s what I was also thinking about for the Knowledge Base where there’s a lot of stuff in here. Hopefully you can find a few things that resonate with you that you can really carry with you into your practice. Miata Tan: Thank you so much for speaking with me today, Helen. Helen Ho: Thank you for having me. ​[00:55:00] Miata Tan: The music we played throughout today’s [00:56:00] episode was by the incredible Mark Izu check out stick song from his 1992 album Circle of Fire. Such a beautiful track, Now, a big thank you to Janice Tay and Helen for joining me on today’s show. You can learn more about the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice via their website. That’s ccsjsf.org Make sure to check out their fantastic Knowledge Base Catalog that Helen spoke to us about from examples of victim centered support programs to rapid response resources during instances of community harm. There’s some really important information on there. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. For show notes, check out our website. That’s kpfa.org/program/APEX-express. APEX Express is a collective of activists that include [00:57:00] Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight’s show was produced by me, Miata Tan. Get some rest y’all . ​ The post APEX Express – 1.22.26 – What Is Community Safety? appeared first on KPFA.

Think about the histories of your family or memories from your past. What if you recounted them with a dash of magic? What happens when we infuse our stories on film with some magical realism? Tonight’s edition of APEX Express features three filmmakers who created magical realism short films centering AAPI women. Listen to directors Cami Kwan, Dorothy Xiao, and Rachel Leyco discuss their films and experiences behind the scenes with host Isabel Li. Cami Kwan: Website | Instagram | Seed & Spark Dorothy Xiao: Website | Instagram Rachel Leyco: Website | Instagram Transcript 00:01 [INTRO] Isabel: You’re tuned into Apex Express on KPFA. Tonight’s edition is all about stories. Think about the histories of your family or memories from your past. Now, what if you recounted them with a dash of magic? What happens when we infuse our stories on film with some magical realism? I’m your host, Isabel Li, and today we have three very special guests, Cami Kwan, Dorothy Chow, and Rachel Leyco. All of them are AAPI filmmakers who received the Julia S. Gouw Short Film Challenge grant from the Coalition of Asian Pacifics and Entertainment and have created short films featuring AAPI stories with magical realism. My first guest of the night is Cami Kwan, a Chinese-American director specializing in stop-motion animation who directed the short film Paper Daughter. Hi Cami, welcome to APEX Express! Cami: Hello, thank you so much for having me. Isabel: How do you identify and what communities do you consider yourself a part of? Cami: So I identify as a queer Asian American woman um and I am a descendant of immigrants, of Chinese immigrants. um Then the communities that I am part of, part of the queer community, part of the Los Angeles community, part of the Chinese American and Asian American community, part of the mixed race community and part of the stop-motion animation and independent artist community. Isabel: I’m so excited to talk to you about your upcoming short film, Paper Daughter, a gothic stop-motion animated Chinese-American fairy tale about a young woman grappling with the guilt of using the identity of a deceased girl to immigrate to the US via Angel Island in 1926, which is such a fascinating concept. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about how you came up with this story and the historical specificity behind it? Cami: Absolutely, yeah. So like I mentioned, I’m the child of immigrants, descendants of immigrants rather. So my great grandparents immigrated to the US from China. My great grandfather came over in 1916 and my great grandma came over in 1926. And so I’ve always grown up knowing the story of Angel Island and knowing the story about the paper sons and paper daughters who had to find any way into the United States that they could. And so they were forced to, you know, take on the identities of other people. And those stories have always stuck with me, you know, like it’s very personal. Angel Island means a lot to me and my family. And just the extreme measures that people have always had to take just for the chance at a better life have always been really meaningful to learn about. just the like, I’ll use romances in like the art movement, like romantic. It’s very romantic and kind of fairy tale-ish, the idea of having to take on a new identity and pretend to be somebody that you’re not. And often those identities would be people who had passed away, and then those families had then sold those identities or given those identities to new people. And so it’s so interesting the idea of being like the last person to know somebody so deeply, but you’ll never get to meet them and you’ll never be able to thank them or repay what they sacrificed for your future. And that’s kind of how I feel as a descendant of immigrants. The sacrifice that my family made for me was made so long ago that there’s no way for me to ever pay it back. And I didn’t really get a say in whether I received that sacrifice or not. And I think a lot of descendants of immigrants kind of have to struggle with this. What does it mean for us to be given this new chance at the cost of somebody who came before us? And so that’s all of that kind of rolled up into this 14-minute film. Isabel: You describe your film as being in a gothic style? Can you describe what this looks like and why gothic? Cami: The subject matter is just so naturally gothic. It’s dealing a lot with death and a lot with guilt and those big capital R romantic subjects and stuff. My day job, my day-to-day job is working in stop-motion animation directing mostly like children’s series and mostly toy related stuff. And so I spent so much of my time in the happy brighter like birthday party storyline kind of like space. But what really made me want to be a filmmaker in the first place were all these like heavier themes, these bigger themes, films by Guillermo del Toro and like Tim Burton and Henry Selig and Hayao Miyazaki and all of those kind of have this like gothic edge to them. And so that’s like a story that I’ve been a type of story I’ve been wanting to tell for about a decade now. Isabel: Stylistically, how does this show up in your film? So I imagine darker colors or do you have a visual like preview for us? Cami: it is a little bit in the darker color space, but it’s still very colorful despite all that. It’s moody more so than dark, I would say. um We have a lot of like light and dark themes, a lot of like shadow. stuff and um a lot of magical realism, which is where that fairy tale aspect kind of comes in, because you’re dealing with things that are so abstract, like guilt and sacrifice and wearing the identity of somebody else, that there’s no literal way to convey that. Well, there are literal ways to convey that, but none of those literal ways I feel fully convey the emotional weight of everything. And so we’ve gone in this very magical realism space where people are tearing information out of these booklets that contain information about the person they’re supposed to be and creating these paper masks out of them. And so yeah, there’s this whole like magical aspect that tends to be kind of darker. There’s imagery of just like being consumed by the identity that you’re just supposed to temporarily wear. And there’s a lot of like, yeah, there’s a lot of darkness in those themes, I think. Isabel: Wow, that’s so interesting. I’d love to learn more about stop motion. What does stop motion make possible that isn’t as easily accomplished through other forms of filmmaking? Cami: Yeah, I think the reason why I’m drawn to stop motion, what I stop motion makes possible is like a universality of just like a human experience because with other kinds of animation and other kinds of filmmaking, like there is kind of like an opacity to like how it’s made. There’s this this veneer, this magic to it, and there’s that magic to stop motion too. But the difference between all of those and stop motion is made out of like everyday materials. It’s made out of fabric. using paper. We’re using clay. We’re using materials that people have encountered in their day-to-day lives. And like, that’s the one thing that we are all guaranteed to have in common is that we live in a material world and we encounter these textures and materials around us. so by like taking such a specific story and trying to convey such universal themes, it really like behooves us to be using like um a medium that is as universal as stop motion is. So I think that’s like the big thing that stop motion unlocks for us. Plus also story-wise, like it’s very paper centered, paper daughter, they’re tearing paper strips, they’re making paper masks. So like physically using these paper textures adds a lot to our world. um And I think working in stop motion gives you a degree of control that live action doesn’t give you because we’re creating. all of our characters, all of our sets by hand, which gives us so much of a say over what they look like and what they convey based on how they’re constructed and stuff. And that’s just a degree of communication that nothing else brings. Isabel: I love that this is a magical realism film and you mentioned Guillermo del Toro. I know that in your campaign trailer, you featured Pan’s Labyrinth, which is my all-time favorite movie. Cami: Me too! Isabel: Yeah! How exactly did you come up with this specific blend of history and fantasy for your film? Cami: I think that it’s almost a natural human instinct to kind of have history and fantasy. Like, that’s all that histories are, just stories told to us. And it’s just being less literal about it and really leaning into the metaphors that we might use to convey the emotional realities of those histories, right? And so I feel like Del Toro does that a lot with his work. And Miyazaki as well does a lot of that with his work. So much of it deals with unpacking like World War II and things like that. And that’s something that I’ve always just personally been drawn to. Even as a kid, my dream jobs were archaeologist or animator. And so here I kind of get to like do a little bit of both of those, know, like using the magic of animation to make history feel a lot more present and tangible and like emotionally relevant, which is It’s really quite poetic to be able to be telling this story right now because it’s going to mark the 100 year anniversary of my great grandmother’s immigration to the US. I think we are due for an examination of immigration in our country. And I’m very interested to see how people respond to the questions that this raises of how different is the immigrant experience 100 years later. Have we gotten better? Have we gotten worse? Like I would posit it’s perhaps worse now than it was then, but I’m really hoping to like, yeah, bring that reality into a more approachable space. And I feel like having that blend of magic and history just makes it a little bit more approachable than telling it in a literal way, you know? Isabel: Those are some great questions to ask. And on that same note, I’m interested in the specificity of Angel Island as well. What types of research did you do to produce your film? Cami: Oh, gosh, I read every book I could find about it. have… How many books were those? Oh, my gosh, I want to say, like, not as many as I want there to be, you know? Like, Angel Island is not as well covered in history as places like Ellis Island, and there’s a lot. to unpack as to why that may be, especially like the racial aspect of it. But I probably read about a dozen different books to prepare for this film. One of the most concrete and useful books that I read is a book called Island, and it’s a collection of the poems that are carved into the walls of the men’s barracks that remain on Angel Island. And those poems are a huge part, perhaps, the reason why Angel Island has even been preserved as a historical landmark. And so um the three authors went to great pains to replicate these poems, translate them into English, and provide a lot of historical context for the different topics of the poems. And there’s a lot of like first-hand testimony from people who immigrated through Angel Island that they interviewed and included in this book. And so I do think that that book, Island, is like the primary source of most of my research for it. Everything else is more like quantitative history and quantitative data. Oh, also The Chinese in America by, I believe it’s Iris Chang, that it’s not just about Angel Island, but I read that and that gave me a much better understanding about like the place that Chinese immigrants have in American history. Because when I was a kid, like I really only ever learned about great grandma came over through Angel Island and now we’re American and we live in America. But our history, as far as I was ever taught, begins and ends with us entering the United States. And so reading um the Chinese in America gave me a much broader understanding about, like, why did we leave China in the first place? And like, what has it meant for us to be in America as Chinese people since then? Yeah, all that came out of like in 2020 and 2021 when the rise of anti-Asian hate crimes were kind of coming about. I personally had to have a huge reckoning with like my racial identity and like how that has impacted like my experience growing up as a mixed-race person who’s pretty perceivably Asian and all that stuff. So it was a really whole circle broad situation. Oh, I want to do a quick shout out to the Angel Island Immigration Station Foundation. They were very generous with their time and they answered a lot of my questions and sent me a lot of archival images from Angel Island. So I want to thank them so much for their help in the research process of this. Isabel: Oh, wow. How fascinating. Did you have any expectations on how the production process was going to go? And now that you’re on the other side of it, what are your reflections? Cami: I had no expectations as to whether we were going to get outside funding or not. Like I, I’m not an experienced or adept grant applicant. Like, it was really just because this was the right kind of project to fit with those kinds of grants. So I had no expectations there. So I am beyond thrilled to have received the support from Cape and Janet Yang and Julia S. Gouw and Shorescripts that we’ve received, like beyond thrilled for that. So that exceeded all of my expectations. um But as far as how the actual production has gone, the fabrication and the animation and the post-production, that’s all stuff that I’m extremely familiar with. Again, that is my day-to-day life, that is my job, that is like what I have done for the last eight years at my studio, Apartment D. So that all went pretty much as I hoped and expected that it would, but here on the other side, the one thing that has surprised me about it was how much love all of the artists put in this project because like we’ve said so much in this conversation, there’s so much specificity to this. This is about my great grandma. This is about my family and my feelings about being a descendant of immigrants. It’s so specific that I wasn’t sure how emotionally it would resonate with anybody else that wasn’t me or wasn’t part of the AAPI community, you know? But every single person — doesn’t really even matter if they were Asian, doesn’t really even matter if they have a specific connection to immigration — every artist that I asked to join me on this project, I immediately understood what it meant and understood what we were trying to say. And they put so much love into it. And like, we all put a lot of love into everything we do. It’s stop motion. It’s like, you don’t do this unless you love it, you know, because you certainly are not doing it for the money or anything. um everyone was just so…I’m gonna say careful, but I don’t mean careful like cautious. I mean careful like full of care. And I did not expect that and I am so grateful for it. Yeah, looking back, it’s just so precious and so tender and like I’m so fortunate to have had the crew with me that I had to make this film. Isabel: That’s so lovely. What are you most excited about upon completing your film? Cami: I’m just excited to share it with the world. I’m so proud of it. It is truly, and I’m not just saying this because it’s my baby, but it is very beautiful and it is very special. For a lot of us, one of the first times that we’ve been able to be in charge of our own departments or to make the decisions that we wanna make and tell things, do things, show things the way that we think they should be done. And so it’s kind of significant for many of us to have this film come out and to be received. What I want people to take away from it is an appreciation and a gratitude for everything that has had to happen for us to be where we are now. And I also really want people to take away the unconditional love that has occurred for us to be in the country that we have and to be the people that we are. Every single person is where they are. doesn’t matter if you’re in America or anywhere else, like we are all here because of the sacrifices that were made by the people who came before us. And those were all made out of unconditional love. And that’s like, I want people to come away from this film remembering that our country is built on the unconditional love and sacrifice from people who came before us. And then wanting to give that unconditional love and sacrifice to everybody who’s gonna come after us. Isabel: Such an amazing message. And I know that there’s still lots to do and you still have a lot to celebrate with your upcoming film and with the festival circuit with Paper Daughter. But looking ahead, do you have any plans of what you want to do after the short film? Cami: Yeah, I would love to bring it into a feature. There was so much that we had to cut out to make this film. On one hand, I’m glad that we cut out what we did because I think the film as it is, is like so tight and so like airtight and good and perfect and sparse in a really nice way, but we don’t even get to delve into life before Angel Island. It begins and ends on the island, and I would love to explore the stories that brought this all about and the stories that come after. So bringing this up into a feature version and getting that in front of people would be amazing. And I have a couple other short film and feature film and script ideas that I would like to start working on as well. I’ve kind of really, I’m really grooving on the like Asian early Chinese American history. um So most of them are going to be set in California and focus on like Chinese immigrants and their role in the founding of America. um I’m really excited for the like, after all the film festivals, I really want this film to end up in classrooms. And I even just the other day like I have a friend who’s a third and fourth grade teacher and she showed it to her class and then the students asked me questions about Angel Island and about animation. if this can play any part in helping to spread the story of Angel Island and the people that immigrated through there, like that’s all that I could ever want from this. So I’m really excited for that. Isabel: That’s wonderful. I’ll put your website, social media and seed and spark page for Paper Daughter up on kpfa.org so our listeners can learn more about this stop motion film and get updates for how they can watch it. I can’t wait to see it when it comes out. And Cami, thank you so much for joining me on Apex Express today. Cami: Of course, thank you so much for having me. It was a great, great time talking with you. Isabel: You just heard Cami Kwan talk about her film Paper Daughter. On Apex Express tonight, we have two more special guests who made magical realism short films. Next up is Dorothy Xiao, who made the film Only in This World. She’s a Los Angeles-based award-winning filmmaker who likes to create grounded family dramas with a hint of fantasy. Hi, Dorothy. Welcome to APEX Express. Dorothy: Hi. Thanks for having me! Isabel: Of course! Thank you for coming here. My first question for you is actually quite broad. How do you identify and what communities are you a part of? Dorothy: Oh, that is a good question. I think in a broader sense. I would say, obviously, I identify as an Asian American. um But I think, like, for me, because I grew up in the 626 or the San Gabriel Valley, I grew up with a lot of people who looked like me. So I think I didn’t truly identify as being Asian or had awareness of my identity until later on when I went to college. And then I took Asian American Studies classes and I was like, oh, wow, I’m Asian. Or like, what does it mean to be Asian? You know, like, I think I, at that time, prior to recognizing and understanding what it meant, and also even to be a minority, because at that, like I said, growing up in 626, even going to UCLA, where I’m surrounded by a lot of Asians, I never really felt like a minority. But I think it was really after graduating where I, depending on the spaces that I would enter into, especially in the film industry, I was learning like, oh, yeah, I am a minority and this is what it feels like. And prior to that, I think I just identified as being a daughter of immigrants. And that still is very strongly the case just because I grew up listening to so many stories that my parents would tell me, like coming from China, growing up like they grew up in China during a completely different time. I can’t even imagine what it would be like living in the way that they did, you know, during the Cultural Revolution, under communism, in an intense way where they were starving, all this political stuff. But yeah, a second gen or for a lot of people, first generation, daughter of immigrants, of parents who decided that they wanted to make a better life for their kids out here in the States. I think that I want to stand by me saying that I don’t feel like I am, I don’t really want to identify as only just single categories all the time, just because within each community, could be, you could have nuances, right? Because I am a woman, but I’m also like a woman who doesn’t want children, you know, and there was just so many different things of how I identify. So hard for me to categorize myself like that. But they are, there are tidbits of different communities. Like I still identify, identify as Asian American. I identify as a daughter of immigrants. I identify as a female filmmaker and yeah. And a business owner, I guess. Yeah. Isabel: Right. Yes. Thank you for that nuanced answer. You know, it’s so fascinating because I was reading about your work and you have worked in animal research administration and an afterschool program and even web development for nonprofits. How did you get into writing and directing? Dorothy: Yeah. So after graduating college, I was definitely in a place where many, I’m sure, fresh grads understand what we call the quarter life crisis, where we don’t know what we wanna do with our lives. And I was working at UCLA because that was the only job that I could get out of college for an animal research administration office. And really, I worked for them as a student. So I was like, well, it makes sense to have that be my full-time job, because you’re in a place where you don’t have skills. So how do you get a job if you don’t have skills? That weird silly catch-22 situation. So I studied psychology in undergrad because my goal was to become a therapist. I wanted to work with Asian and Asian immigrant communities to help them with mental health because there’s such a stigma attached to it. And being somebody who found mental health really important and also found that it was a really great way to understand myself. I wanted to work with, I guess, the people of my community. But at that time, I realized that there’s still a stigma attached to mental health and it’s really hard to get people to even go to therapy. Like living with my parents, it’s really difficult. I cannot ever convince them to go. um And so I had pivoted into, or at least I discovered this filmmaking competition and ended up just like making a film for fun with a couple of friends, random people that um were not in film at all. And I had a lot of fun and I realized that we could actually create stories talking about things that are very similar to mental health or could provide that catharsis and validation that you could probably get in a session, in a therapy session. And it’s not clinical at all. It’s not as clinical. So, you know, on all those different jobs that you mentioned, they’re all day jobs, know, animal research administration and then working for an after school program. That was me still trying to figure out how to be a filmmaker on my weekends. I still needed a day job. I didn’t have the luxury of going to film school. So I would work at different places that gave me the flexibility of having a day job. But then also I had free time during the weekend to just make films with my friends, make friends films with people like my mom, who was one of my first actors earlier on. Love my mom. She did not do the greatest in my film, but I love her for being there for me. But yeah, like the different organizations or just jobs that I worked for were all really good in terms of providing me management skills and also communication skills because I worked in different industries, you know, and so at the end of the day, it all culminated in me at my current place. Like I am a freelance filmmaker and I also run my own video production company. So um becoming a writer, I mean, being a writer director is my main identity as a filmmaker. However, I don’t think you could be a good writer-director if you don’t have life experience. And having all those different jobs that I’ve had provided me with a lot of varied life experience and I interacted with a lot of different people, many different personalities. Isabel: Yeah, no, I love that. So you grew up in Alhambra, which I’m familiar with because I too grew up in the San Gabriel Valley. How would you say that growing up in Alhambra has shaped you as an artist? Dorothy: Alhambra is really special, I feel like, because in the San Gabriel Valley, there are many cities like this. You have Chinese people who can actually get by without ever having to learn English. And the same goes for Latin communities as well. And, you know, I have aunts and uncles who lived in Alhambra for years and never learned how to speak English. So I think it’s like, what’s so special about it, it feels like a safe space for a lot of immigrant communities. And then my parents being immigrants from China. living in Alhambra was a place where they could feel safe and feel connected to the people that they left behind in another country. And so being a child of immigrants, a daughter of like an Asian American, like a Chinese American growing up in Alhambra, I definitely felt like I grew up with a lot of people who were similar to me. know, we were like a lot of times the first American born children of our families even, and it was, we had to essentially understand what it meant to be Asian versus American and all of that. But I think like being in Alhambra, I never felt like I wasn’t seen, or at least I never felt like I was a minority. I think I mentioned this earlier, in that growing up in Alhambra, you do see a lot of people who look like you. And I have a lot of friends in the film industry who have moved out to California because they grew up in towns where they were like one, the only person, the only Asian person in their school or whatever. And I didn’t have that experience. So for me, it was really special just being able to have a whole group of friends where there’s a bunch of Asians. And we all spoke different languages. Like I had a lot of friends who were Cantonese speakers, but I’m a Mandarin speaker, but it was just really cool. It was like going to your friends’ places and then you have aunties. So it’s almost like having more family. You could feel like you have more aunts and uncles that will feed you all the time because that is the way they show love, right? Isabel: Oh, certainly. I think there’s so many stories in multicultural places like Alhambra. And speaking of which, you did in your film Only in This World. It’s about an empty nester who has to face her ex-husband’s mistress in order to summon her daughter back from the afterlife, which is featured in the 2025 Silicon Valley Asian Pacific Film Festival in Sunnyvale. Congratulations on such a beautiful film. I will say that I am a huge fan of magical realism, and Only in This World has some magical elements to it. So I’d love to get to know, how did you come up with this specific plot and characters that make up this film? Dorothy: Yeah, and thank you for wanting to talk about this one. It’s a special story to me just because it is, I think it’s the first film that I’ve made where I just decided to incorporate elements of where I grew up. And so Only in This World is inspired by my mom and her Tai Chi group at our local park, so Alhambra Park. My mom would go to do Tai Chi every morning for years. And in Alhambra, actually, as I mentioned, because there are so many immigrant communities, many of the immigrant communities tend to stay together with the people who speak their language. So Chinese people usually stick together with the Chinese speakers, Spanish speakers stick together with the Spanish speakers. You don’t see a lot of mingling or intersectionality. But one of the special things that I saw with my mom’s Tai Chi group was that they were not just Chinese people or Asian people, but there were Latino people in their group as well. And so even though they couldn’t speak the same language, they would show up and still do Tai Chi every morning because it was a matter of doing something together. And so I love that a lot. And I wanted to tell a story about just older women who are finding friendship because I think that’s really important in older age and in these groups because you see that a lot of the people in these Tai Chi groups are even the ones, not just Tai Chi groups, but there are dancers in the park, you know, like you’ll see them in the mornings, not just in Alhambra, but in Monterey Park, all the different parks, open spaces, they’ll have little dance groups. A lot of the people who are part of those groups happen to be seniors, and I think it’s just because they don’t have work, they don’t have children, they’re lonely. And so…I think it’s really important to be aware that where friendship or loneliness is actually an epidemic in the senior community. And it’s really important to providing good quality of life is to just have them have that connection with other people. And seeing that in my mom, because my mom is getting older, having her be part of that community was what kept her happier. And so, yeah, and also my mother-in-law is Colombian. And she’s done Tai Chi before as well with her group in Rosemead. And so I just was like, well, I’m part of a multicultural family. I want to tell a multicultural family story. Yeah, in terms of the magical realism element, I thought a lot about just how my family, if our house has ever burned down, the things that they would take out are our photos, the print four by six, like, you know, just the print photos because they’re just so precious to them. There’s something about hard copy pictures that is so special that digital photos just can’t take over. Like there is an actual energy to how a photo is made or even like back then when we used to use film, there’s energy that’s required to actually create photos. And so, you know, I wanted that to be the power that powers this magical scanner where energy is taken from the picture and then you have the ability to bring someone you love back from the afterlife. And I really love grounded magical realism because I think it just makes difficult things a lot easier to understand when you add a little bit of magic to it, a little bit of fantasy. Isabel: Yeah, magical realism is such a special genre. What part of the production process that you find the most profound? Dorothy: I think it was just really my gratitude in how much my family came together for me and also just like the people of this team, know, like there were, I think one major situation that I can think of that I always think is really funny was, um so we filmed at my mother-in-law’s house and my husband, Diego, was also working on set with me. He is not in the film industry. He’s a software engineer manager. He’s like in tech, but he is one of my biggest supporters. And so…when we were like, yeah, can we film at your mom’s house? He was like, okay. But he had to end up being the, quote unquote, location manager, right? Because the house was his responsibility. And then, and he was also my PA and he was also DIT. Like he would be the one dumping footage. He did everything. He was amazing. And then ah one day we found out that his neighbor was actually doing construction and they were hammering. It was like drilling stuff and making new windows. They were doing new windows. And we were just like, oh, like, how do we get them to, like, not make noise? And so, and they don’t speak English. And so we were like, oh crap, you know. So like, unfortunately, my producers and I don’t speak Spanish, like we’re all just English speaking. And then I did have Latinos working on my set, but they, you know, they had other jobs. I wasn’t going to make them translate and do all that other stuff. So then Diego so kindly went over and talked to them and was like, essentially we set up. They were totally cool about it. They were like, yeah, okay, you’re making a film. then whenever you’re rolling sound, we’ll just like prevent, like not hammer. And then so Diego is sitting outside with a walkie and talking to the first AD and other people inside the house, because we’re all filming inside. don’t know what’s going outside. And then so like, we would be rolling, rolling. And then um the workers, I think his name was Armando, are like…whenever we cut, Diego would hear it through the walkie and he’d be like, Armando, okay, you’re good to go. You can drill. Armando would drill. And then when we’re going, and we’d be like, I’m going for another take. And then Diego would be like, Armando, please stop. So it was so nice of them to be willing to accommodate to us. Because you hear a lot of horror stories of LA productions where neighbors see you’re filming something and they’ll purposely turn on the radio to make it really loud and you have to pay them off and whatever. And in this case, it wasn’t it was more like, hey, like, you know, we’re making a movie and they were so supportive and they’re like, yeah, totally. This is so cool. We will definitely pause our work, our actual work and let you roll down during the brief period. So we’re really grateful. We definitely brought them donuts the next day to thank them. But that was just something that I was like, oh yeah, like I don’t think I could have pulled that off if I didn’t have Diego or if the fact, if it wasn’t for the fact that these were the neighbors, know, that we were filming at someone’s house and the neighbors already had a relationship with the people who lived here. Isabel: Wow, that’s really adaptable. And I’m so glad that went well for you. Dorothy, you’ve directed 13 films by now. Have you ever seen one of your films resonate with an audience member that you’ve interacted with in the past? Dorothy: So there was this one short I had done a couple years ago called Tarot and it came at a time when I was struggling with the idea of whether or not I wanted to have kids and many of my friends are off having their first or second kids, you know, and so I never really wanted to be a mom, but then I have a partner who I can see being a great father, so I’m more open to the idea of being a mother, but it was still something I was conflicted about. And so I put this all into a short film, just my feelings of how my identity would change if I were to become a mom, because I’ve read so much about that. I found a Reddit thread one day where people were just talking about how being a mother is hard. And they openly stated how much they hated it. And it’s okay to feel that way. And I wanted to put those feelings into this film to just put it out there like, hey, like if you don’t like being a mom, even though you love your kid, you could still hate having that identity and be lost about, and it’s okay to be lost or not sure about who you are. And so it was a really short film and it ended kind of open ended. It was like five minute film, so it didn’t have like a full ending, but it was an open ended ending. And then afterwards I had a bunch of people come up. I had people who were parents, not just mothers, like even, or like fathers who had just had their first kid who were coming up and telling me like, oh, I totally identify. I understand that struggle of learning about who your new identity is after you’ve had a kid. And then I had people who were child free who were coming to me and saying like, yeah, this is a similar feeling that I’ve had about whether or not I should have any kids. Because, you know, as women, we have a biological clock that ticks. And that’s something I feel frustrated about sometimes where it’s really because of my body that I feel pressured to have a kid versus wanting to have one because I want one. And so that was a story I wanted to, or just something I wanted to put into a film. Yeah, and I also had another person come up and tell me that they were like, this was something I felt, but I never really openly talked about. And so I resonated a lot with this and it just helped basically articulate or helped me identify like, oh, I totally feel this way. And so that was really validating to me as a filmmaker because my goal is to reach others who don’t feel comfortable talking about certain things that they tend to hide because I have a lot of those types of thoughts that I might feel ashamed or embarrassed to share. But then I put it into a story and then it makes it more digestible and it’s like, or it’s more, it’s entertaining. But then like the core message is still there. And so people watch it and if they feel that they can connect to it, then I’ve done my job because I have resonated with somebody and I’ve made them feel seen. And that’s ultimately what I wanted to do when I wanted to be a therapist was I just wanted to make people feel seen. I wanted to make them feel connected to other people and less lonely because that’s something that I also have struggled with. Yeah, so filmmaking is my way of putting something small out there that I feel and then finding other people who feel the same way as me. And then we can feel validated together. Isabel: Ah yes, that is the power of film, and Dorothy’s work can be viewed on her website, which I’ll be linking on kpfa.org, as well as her social media, so you can get new updates on what she is working on. Dorothy, thank you so much for joining me on APEX Express today! Dorothy: Thank you! Thank you for having me, it was so great to meet you! Isabel: That was Dorothy Xiao, our second guest for tonight’s edition of Apex Express, featuring magical realism AAPI filmmakers. Now time for our final guest of the night, Rachel Leyco, who is a queer, award-winning Filipina-American filmmaker, writer, actress, and activist. We’ll be talking about her upcoming short film, Milk & Honey. Hi Rachel, it’s such an honor to have you here on APEX Express. Rachel: Hi, thank you so much for having me. Isabel: How do you identify and what communities do you consider yourself a part of? Rachel: Yeah, I identify as a queer Filipina-American. Isabel: So we’re here to talk about your short film, Milk & Honey, which is about an ambitious Filipina nurse who leaves her family behind in the Philippines to chase the American dream in the 1990s and facing conflicts and hardships along the way. How did you come up with this specific 90s immigration story? Rachel: Yeah. So Milk and Honey is inspired by my mom’s immigrant story. you know, that’s really her true story of coming to America in the early 1990s as a very young Filipina nurse while, and also a young mother and leaving behind her daughter, which was me at the time. um you know, following her journey in the film though fictionalized, a lot of the moments are true and there’s a lot of exploration of assimilation, cultural barriers, loneliness and the emotional cost of pursuing the American dream. Isabel: Yeah, when I read that synopsis, I immediately thought of this short film could totally be something that’s feature length. How did you sort of this story to something that is like under 15 minutes long? Rachel: Yeah, so I wrote the short film script first. And actually, you know, this is a proof of concept short film for the feature film. I actually wrote the feature film script after I wrote the short because there was just so much more I wanted to explore with the characters and the story. It definitely couldn’t fit into a short film, though I have that short film version. But there was just so much richness to my mom’s story that I wanted to explore, so I expanded into a feature. So I do have that feature film version, which I hope to make one day. Isabel: And you mentioned that this film is inspired by your mom’s story. Is there any other sort of research that you did into this story that really helped you write? Rachel: Yeah, one of the main reasons I wanted to write the story, I mean, there’s many reasons, but one is because there, if you ask the average American or the general public, they won’t really know why there are so many Filipino nurses in the healthcare system. Because if you walk into any hospital, you’ll see a Filipino nurse, more than one for sure. ah so I was really curious about the history. ah Having my mom as a nurse, my sister’s also a nurse, I have a lot of healthcare workers around me. I grew up with that. I, you know, growing up, I also didn’t really know or learn Filipino American history because it’s not taught in schools. And I, you know, I took AP US history and didn’t learn anything about, you know, my culture and our history. It’s, not in the books at all. And it wasn’t until like my early twenties that I was really curious about my roots and my upbringing and what it means to be Filipino-American specifically. And so um I really went into like a deep dive of just researching Filipino-American history. And specifically last year, I had been wanting to tell a story about a Filipino nurse because of my proximity to it with my mother. And you know, myself being an artist, being a filmmaker in the industry, there’s so many medical shows out there, like, know, Grey’s Anatomy, that’s been long running, but very, very few, and rarely do we see Filipino nurses at the forefront and at the center of those stories. um You know, rarely are they series regulars. You know, sometimes they’ll feature a Filipino nurse for like one episode or two and, you know, a recurring or a side character, but Filipino nurses are never the main character, never the series regular. And so that was another big driving force for why I wanted to make this story. And, you know, really making my mom’s character the center of it. And so as far as like research, too, I definitely interviewed my mom and I asked her to just tell me her her entire story and specifically why she even wanted to move to the United States because she could have stayed in the Philippines or she could have moved somewhere else. um she saw a newspaper or her friend actually at the time when she was in a nursing school, a friend of hers saw an ad in the newspaper that America was sponsoring nurses. And so she had it in her mind already like, oh, yeah, I’ve heard of America. I’ve heard of the United States that it’s, you know, there’s better opportunities for me there. And at the time she had just had me. And so she had, you she’s a young mother. She’s trying to take care of her baby, her newborn. And so, you know, she had her eyes set on moving to the United States and that’s kind of how her journey happened. And on top of that, I also did my own research on you know, our history, I watched this really amazing documentary um by Vox. It’s on YouTube. It’s all about why there are so many Filipino nurses in America. And it really just ties back to U.S. colonization. And after World War II, was so many, there was big nursing shortage in the United States. you know, white Americans did not want to, you know, fill that role. So they turn to Filipino women to fill the gap. Isabel: Yeah, was there something special about the production process that looking back, you would want to replicate in the future or that really speaks to you? Rachel: Absolutely. um Yeah, mean, definitely this experience and a lot of the people that I brought on to this project, I want to continue to make films with them and continue to make art with them because um I’m just so proud of the team that we put together. Everyone was so passionate and they knew how important the story was. They also had their own special connection to the material that they brought so much heart and passion into the film. that really comes through in the project. so like a lot of the people I brought onto this film, I want to continue to make art with them forever. That’s one thing that I’m really, really grateful for, because I got to work with some really awesome people that I had never worked before or I had been wanting to work with. And so it was such a great opportunity that was given to me to be able to connect with such amazing and talented AAPI creatives in my circle. Isabel: Yeah, I saw on your Instagram page for the film that you shot this film in both Los Angeles and Austin, Texas. Have you ever done a production where you had to sort juggle two different sets in two very different locations? And how was that entire process? Rachel: Yeah, that was really, it was really fun. It was my first time being able to film in two different cities, let alone like two different states, really. A lot of my past projects have just been, you know, shooting it with the resources that I had that were available to me. You know, usually like my past short film, Thank You for Breaking My Heart, that I did last year, we shot all of it in one location, which was of course like, know, that is something that’s really impressive in and of itself, of course. But, you know, because of the bigger budget that we had for Milk and Honey, I really wanted to challenge myself with this. And I really advocated for filming a part of the film in Texas because it is set in Texas. I was raised there. That’s where my mom was placed when she, because how the process goes is, you know, she applied for the nursing sponsorship and then they placed them in certain areas. And so she was placed in El Paso, Texas at the time. And so that’s where I also grew up. So I set the film there and I really advocated for filming in Texas because I wanted the film to have that feeling of the environment and atmosphere of Texas. um And so we shot some exteriors there for like this really fun Texas montage where you can really like feel that the character is there in, you know, in that heat, the Texas heat. So that was really, that was really fun. And I, you know, we shot, we shot two days in LA and we shot half a day in Austin, Texas. And we hired a second unit in Texas, because, you know, again, like, even though we had a really good budget, was still, you know, it was still pretty small. So I wasn’t able to, you know, fly my LA crew over there. um So what we did was we just hired a second unit crew in Austin, Texas, and they were amazing. And most of them were queer, non-binary filmmakers. And it was just such a fun, intimate crew that you know, we just breezed by and had such a great time shooting that. Isabel: That’s wonderful. As a director, what inspires you and what are some of your filmmaking influences? Rachel: Yeah, I mean, I’m constantly inspired by, you know, new films, filmmakers that I’ve seen, em particularly for Milk and Honey. I um so the film is, you know, this grounded drama, but there are a lot of moments of magical realism that I mix into it. love magical realism. love one of my favorite movies is Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. It’s such a beautiful film, also very grounded, but it’s filled with all of this, you know, magical realism, surrealism. And so I infused that into, you know, Milk and Honey, which was really fun and a challenge to execute. But yeah, and some other filmmakers and creatives that I’m inspired by are Ava Duvernay. think her work is just incredible and also just an incredible artist overall. I love the kind of work that she does because it comes from such a deep place. And I love that she can combine art with politics and social justice as well. Isabel: I also love that you said in your one of your project funding descriptions that you use your art as your act of revolution, which is so relevant given that, you know, in our current state of, you know, our administration is silencing and suppressing voices of our immigrant communities. And how do we as filmmakers, as artists, what does that revolution and representation mean to you as a filmmaker and artist? Rachel: I truly believe that that art is our act of revolution and just merely creating the art is that act in and of itself. We don’t have to do more than that as from, in my opinion, as an artist, because the mere fact of us existing as artists, existing, myself existing and creating the work and having the work exists out there and putting it out. The most powerful thing that an artist can do is to make their art and share it with the world. And after that, just let it go, you know, forget about how it’s going to be received. Forget about like, you know, the critics and, and, and the, you know, self doubt you may have and all of those things, because yeah, it’s going to come. I think especially in the landscape of, like you said, of where we’re at right now with our current administration and you know, just who knows what’s going to happen in the next few years, but also in the face of like AI and technology and all of that, I think all we can really do as artists is to, in order for us to change the system is we have to be the change, right? And in order for us to be that change is just to continue to tell our stories and stay authentic to ourselves. Because I think that’s also what a lot of people out there are really craving right now. People are craving authentic, real stories by people that we really don’t get to see or hear their stories very often. And so um that for me is something that fuels me and my artistry every day. Isabel: Very well said and a great reminder to all of us artists out there to keep making our art. What do you hope for audiences to take away when they watch your film? Rachel: What I hope for audiences to get out of watching the film, well, one, at the core of it is a mother-daughter story. And I also did it to honor my mother and her sacrifices and her story. So I hope that, one, audiences will, you know, maybe reflect on their relationship with their mother and… um think of ways to honor their mother and their family and their ancestry as well. And another thing is to really think about what the American dream means to you, because that was another driving force for me with the film is it’s called Milk & Honey because a lot of immigrants coined Milk & Honey as America’s milk and honey as this like land of abundance, land of opportunity and you know, this is a, this is a place for creating a better life for ourselves. But I, for me, as I’ve grown up and as an adult now, really looking at like, well, what does the American dream mean to me? Is that still true to me? Do I still think the U S is a place where I can, where I can build a better life? Is it a place of abundance and something in the film, a big theme in the film is where Cherry’s character scrutinizes that dream and thinks for herself, like, is the American dream worth it? And what does the American dream actually mean to me? What is the definition of that? So I think that’s a big thing I would love audiences to also take away from it, you know, asking themselves that question. Isabel: That’s a great thought to end on. I’ll be including Rachel’s social media and website on kpfa.org as usual so you can see if Milk and Honey will be screening in a film festival near your city during its festival run. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for joining me on APEX Express today. Thanks so much for having me. I really enjoyed it. Please check our website kpfa.org to find out more about magical realism in AAPI stories and the guests we spoke to. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting. Keep organizing. Keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. APEX Express is produced by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Cheryl Truong, and Isabel Li. Tonight’s show was produced by me, Isabel Li. Thanks to the team at KPFA for their support. Have a great night. The post APEX Express – 1.08.26 – Magical Realism and AAPI Short Films appeared first on KPFA.

APEX Express is a weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. APEX Express and Lavender Phoenix are both members of Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality (AACRE). AACRE focuses on long-term movement building, capacity infrastructure, and leadership support for Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders committed to social justice. To learn more about Lavender Phoenix, please visit their website. You can also listen to a previous APEX Express episode honoring Lavender Phoenix’s name change. Miata Tan: ​[00:00:00] Hello and welcome. You are tuning in to APEX Express, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans. I am your host, Miata Tan. And before we get started, I wanted to let you know that this show was recorded on December 16th, 2025. Things may have changed by the time you hear this. I also wanted to take a moment to acknowledge [00:01:00] some recent gun violence tragedies, not only in the US but globally. As you might be able to tell from my accent, I’m Australian. Over the weekend, 15 people were killed in Sydney, on Bondi Beach in a mass shooting. The likes not seen in 30 years. Australia’s gun control laws are different to the US in a number of ways that I won’t get into right now, but this massacre is one of the few we’ve seen since the nineties. In the US we’ve also seen the shooting at Brown University where two of their students were killed by a still active shooter. It’s strange. Guns and weapons are horrific. Tools used to take the life of people every day globally. An everyday occurrence now brings a degree of complacency. Although you personally might not have been [00:02:00] impacted by these recent shootings, the wars going on abroad, or government attacks on immigrant communities, and ICE deportation cases taking place here in America, the impact of horrific acts of violence have ripple effects that spread across this country and world. Careless violence motivated by hate for another be that racially charged conflicting ideologies. It’s all awful. And I, and I guess I wanted to acknowledge that here at the top of this episode. Profound hatred and judgment toward others is not only incredibly sad, it’s self-defeating. And I don’t mean to sound all preachy and I understand it’s December 25th and perhaps you’re sick of the sound of my voice and you’re about to change the station. In all honesty, I, I would’ve by [00:03:00] now. It’s easy to tune out suffering. It’s easy to tune out violence, but if you’re still listening. Today, as many of us are gathering for the holiday ,season, whether or not you believe in a higher power or acknowledge that big guy in a red suit that brings kids presents, I invite you to sit with some of these thoughts. To acknowledge and reflect on the violence that exists around us, the hatred and dehumanization. We as humans are capable of feeling toward one another. Let’s just sit here for a moment with that uncomfortability. Now. Think, what can I do today to make another’s life [00:04:00] just that tiny bit brighter? Okay. Now to reintroduce myself and this show, my name is Miata Tan and this is APEX Express. A show that honors Asian American communities far and wide, uplifting the voices of artists, activists, organizers, and more. We have two incredible guests today from Lavender Phoenix, a Bay Area based organization supporting queer and trans Asian and Pacific Islander youth. I really enjoyed my conversation with these two, and I’m sure you will as well. And a quick note throughout both of these conversations, you’ll hear us referring to the organization as both Lavender Phoenix and it’s very cute nickname Lav Nix. Without further ado, here’s [00:05:00] my conversation with Yuan Wang, the outgoing director at Lavender Phoenix. Miata Tan: Yuan, thank you so much for joining us today. Would you be able to share a little bit about yourself with our listeners to get started? Yuan Wang: Yeah. I’m so excited to be here. My name is Yuan. My pronouns are she, and they, and I’m actually the outgoing executive director of Lavender Phoenix. You’re catching me on my second to last week in this role after about four years as the executive director, and more years on our staff team as an organizer and also as a part of our youth summer organizer program. So this is a really exciting and special time and I’m really excited to reflect about it with you. Miata Tan: Yay. I’m so excited. I’d love for you to give us an overview of Lavender Phoenix and the work that y’all do, what communities you support, Yuan Wang: Lavender Phoenix was founded about 21 years ago, and we are based in the Bay [00:06:00] Area. We’re a grassroots organization that builds the power of transgender non-binary and queer Asian and Pacific Islander communities right here in the Bay. Right now our work focuses on three major Areas. The first is around fighting for true community safety. There are so, so many ways that queer, trans, and more broadly, uh, working class communities in the San Francisco Bay Area. Are needing ways to keep ourselves and each other safe, that don’t rely on things like policing, that don’t rely on things like incarceration that are actually taking people out of our communities and making us less safe. The second big pillar of our work is around healing justice. We know that a lot of folks in our community. Struggle with violence, struggle with trauma, struggle with isolation, and that a lot of the systems that exist aren’t actually really designed for queer and trans API people, to thrive and feel connected. And [00:07:00] so, we’ve been leading programs and campaigns around healing justice. And the last thing is we’re trying to build a really principled, high integrity leaderful movement. So we do a ton of base building work, which just means that, everyday queer and trans API people in our community can come to Lavender Phoenix, who want to be involved in organizing and political work. And we train folks to become organizers. Miata Tan: And you yourself came into Lavender Phoenix through one of those programs, is that right? Yuan Wang: Yeah. Um, that is so true. I came into Lavender Phoenix about seven or eight years ago through the Summer organizer program, which is kind of our flagship youth organizing fellowship. And I was super lucky to be a part of that. Miata Tan: How has that felt coming into Lavender Phoenix? Like as a participant of one of those programs? Yeah. And now, uh, over the past few years, being able to [00:08:00] lead the organization? Yuan Wang: Yeah. It feels like the most incredible gift. I share this a lot, but you know, when I had come into Lavender Phoenix through the summer organizer program, I had already had some experience, doing organizing work, you know, doing door knocking, working on campaigns. but I really wanted to be in a space where I felt like I could be all of myself, and that included being trans, you know, that included. Being in a really vulnerable part of my gender transition journey and wanting to feel like I was around people all the time who maybe were in a similar journey or could understand that in a really intimate way. I really found that at Lavender Phoenix. It was pretty unbelievable, to be honest. I remember, uh, the first day that I walked in. There were members and volunteers leading a two hour long political education that was just about the histories of trans and non-binary people in different Asian and Pacific Islander communities. So just being in a room [00:09:00] full of people who shared my identities and where, where we were prioritizing these histories was really, really exciting. I think for the years it’s just been so amazing to see Lavender Phoenix grow. The time when I joined, we had a totally different name. It was API equality, Northern California, or we called ourselves a pink and we were really focused on projects like the Dragon Fruit Project, which was a, a series of more than a hundred oral histories that we did with elders and other members members of our community. Things like the Trans Justice Initiative, which were our first efforts at really building a community that was trans centered and that was, was building trans leaders. And now those things are so deeply integrated into our work that they’ve allowed us to be focused on some more, I think what we call like issue based work, and that that is that community safety, healing justice work. That I mentioned earlier. So, it’s just been amazing to witness multiple generations of the organization that has shaped [00:10:00] me so much as a person. Miata Tan: That’s really nice. Seven, eight years that, that whole Yuan Wang: Yeah, I joined in 2018 in June, so you can maybe do, I think that’s about seven and a half years. Yeah. I’m bad at math though. Miata Tan: Me too. So you’ve been executive director since late 2021 then? This, these few years since then we’ve seen a lot of shifts and changes in our I guess global political culture and the way conversations around racial solidarity issues mm-hmm. as you’ve navigated being executive director, what, what has changed in your approach maybe from 2021 till this year? 2025? Yuan Wang: Wow, that’s such an interesting question. You’re so right to say that. I think for anyone who’s listening, I, I imagine this resonates that the last four years have [00:11:00] been. Really a period of extraordinary violence and brutality and grief in our world. And that’s definitely true for a lot of folks in Lavender Phoenix. You mentioned that we’ve been living through, you know, continued pandemic that our government is providing so little support and recognition for. We’ve seen multiple uprisings, uh, in the movement for black lives to defend, you know, and, and bring dignity to the lives of people who were killed and are police. And obviously we’re still facing this immense genocide in Gaza and Palestine bombings that continue. So I think if there’s, if there’s anything that I could say to your question about how my approach has changed. I would say that we as a whole, as an organization have had to continue to grow stronger and stronger in balancing our long-term vision. Intensifying urgent needs of right now and [00:12:00] balancing doing the work that it takes to defend our people and try to change institutions with the incredible and at times overwhelming grief of living in this moment. Yeah, you know, in this past year, um. Have been members of our community and, and our larger community who have passed away. Uh, I’m sure there are some listeners who know, Alice Wong, Patty by architects of the disability justice movement that Lavender Phoenix has learned so much from who have passed away. And we’ve had to balance, you know. Like one week there’s threats that the National Guard and that ICE will be deployed and even higher numbers to San Francisco and, and across the Bay Area. And oh my gosh, so many of us are sitting with an incredible personal grief that we’re trying to hold too. So, I think that’s been one of the biggest challenges of the last few years is, is finding that balance. Yeah. I can say that some of the things that I feel proudest of are, [00:13:00] you know, just as an example, in our healing justice work, over the past four years, our members have been architecting a, a trans, API peer counseling program. And, through that program they’ve been able to provide, first of all, train up. So many trans API, people as skilled, as attentive, as loving peer counselors who are then able to provide that. Free, uh, accessible peer mental health support to other people who need it. So I think that’s just one example. Something that gives me a lot of hope is seeing the way that our members are still finding ways to defend and love and support each other even in a time of really immense grief. Miata Tan: That’s really beautiful and it’s important that you are listening to your community members at this time. How do you, this is kind of specific, but how do you all gather together? Yeah, Yuan Wang: yeah. You know, I feel really lucky ’cause I think for the last 10 years we, Lavender Phoenix as a whole, even before I was a part of it, has been [00:14:00] building towards a model of really collective governance. Um, and, and I don’t wanna make it sound like it. You know, it’s perfect. It’s very challenging. It’s very hard. But I think like our comrades at Movement generation often say, if we’re not prepared to govern, then we’re not prepared to win. And we try to take that, that practice really seriously here. So, you know, I think that, that getting together. That making decisions with each other, that making sure that members and staff are both included. That happens at like a really high strategic level. You know, the three pillars of our theory of change that I mentioned earlier, those were all set through a year of strategy retreats between our staff, but also a. 10 to 15 of our most experienced and most involved members who are at that decision making. The same comes for our name, uh, Lavender Phoenix. You know, it was, it was really our core committee, our, our member leaders who helped decide on that name. And then we invited some of our elders to speak about what it meant for them, for us to choose Lavender Phoenix, because it was an homage to the work [00:15:00] so many of our elders did in the eighties and nineties. It also looks like the day-to-day, because a lot of our work happens through specific committees, whether it’s our community safety committee or healing justice committee. Um, and those are all committees where there’s one staff person, but it’s really a room of 5, 10, 15 members who are leading community safety trainings. The peer counseling program, training new members through our rise up onboarding, um, and setting new goals, new strategic targets every single year. So, it’s always in progress. We’re in fact right now working on some challenges and getting better at it, but we’re really trying to practice what governing and self-determination together looks like right in our own organization. Miata Tan: And a lot of these people are volunteers too. Yuan Wang: yeah, so when I joined the organization there were two staff, two mighty staff people at the time. We’ve grown to nine full-time staff people, but most of our organization is volunteers. [00:16:00] Yeah. And we call those folks members, you know, committed volunteers who are participants in one of our committees or projects. Um, and I believe right now there’s about 80 members in Lavender Phoenix. Miata Tan: Wow. It’s wonderful to hear so much growth has happened in, um, this period that you’ve been with Lavender Phoenix. The idea of empowering youth, I think is core to a lot of Lavender Phoenix’s work. What has that looked like specifically in the last few years, especially this year? Yuan Wang: Yeah, the Miata Tan: challenges. Yuan Wang: That’s a great question. I think, um, you know, one of those ways is, is really specifically targeted towards young people, right? It’s the summer organizer program, which I went through many years ago, and our previous executive director was also an alumnus of the summer organizer program, but that’s, you know, an eight to 10 week fellowship. It’s paid, it’s designed specifically for young trans and queer API people who are working class, who grew up in the [00:17:00] Bay to organize with us and, and really. Hopefully be empowered with tools that they’ll use for the next decade or for the rest of their life. But I’ll also say, you know, you mentioned that Lavender Phoenix has grown so much in the last few years, and that is such a credit to folks who were here 10 years ago, even 15 years ago, you know, because, the intergenerational parts of our work started years before I was involved. You know, I mentioned earlier the Dragon Fruit Project where we were able to connect so, so many elders in our community with a lot of younger folks in our community who were craving relationships and conversations and like, what happened in the eighties? What happened in the nineties, what did it feel like? Why are you still organizing? Why does this matter to you? And we’re actually able to have those conversations with folks in, in our community who. Have lived and fought and organized for decades already. So I think that was like one early way we started to establish that like intergenerational in our work.[00:18:00] And a lot of those folks have stayed on as volunteers, as supporters, some as members, and as donors or advisors. So I feel really lucky that we’re still benefiting in terms of building the leadership of young people, but also intergenerational reality overall because of work that folks did 10 years ago. Miata Tan: That’s really important. Having those, those ties that go back. Queer history is so rich, especially in the, in the Bay Area. And there’s a lot to honor. With the intersection between queer and immigrant histories here, I wonder if you have anything that comes to mind. Yuan Wang: I think that queer and immigrant histories intersect in the lives of so many of our, our members and, and the people who are inspiration too. You know, I’m not sure that. I think a lot of listeners may not know that Lavender Phoenix is as a name. It’s an homage to Lavender, Godzilla, [00:19:00] and Phoenix Rising, which were two of the first publications. They were newsletters launched back in the eighties by groups of. Uh, trans and queer API, folks who are now elders and who were looking around, you know, learning from the Black Power movement, learning from solidarity movements in the Bay Area, and saying we really need to create spaces where. Trans and queer Asian Pacific Islanders can talk about our journeys of migration, our family’s journeys as refugees, our experiences with war, and then also about love and joy and finding friendship and putting out advertisements so that people could get together for potlucks. So yeah, I think, um, there’s so much about the intersection of immigrant and queer and trans journeys that have been. Just even at the root of how we name ourselves and how we think of ourselves as an or as an organization today. Miata Tan: I think today, more than ever all of these [00:20:00] communities feel a little more than a little under threat, Yuan Wang: we could say so much about that. I think one thing that we’re really paying attention to is, uh, we’re seeing in different communities across the country, the ways in which the right wing is. Uh, kind of wielding the idea of trans people, uh, the perceived threat that trans people pose. As a wedge issue to try to build more more power, more influence, more connections in immigrant communities and in the process like really invisiblizing or really amplifying the harm that immigrant, trans and queer. People experience every single day. So I think something that we’re thinking about on the horizon, you know, whether it’s, uh, partnering with organizations in California or in the Bay Area or across the country who are doing that really critical base building work, power building work in immigrant communities is trying to ask, you know. How do we actually proactively as [00:21:00] progressives, as people on the left, how do we proactively have conversations with immigrant communities about trans and queer issues, about the, uh, incredibly overlapping needs that trans and queer people in all people who are marginalized right now have in these political conditions? Um, how can we be proactive about those combinations and making those connections so that, we can kind of inoculate folks against the way that the right wing is targeting trans people, is fear mongering about trans people and trying to make inroads in immigrant communities. Yeah. That’s one thing on our radar for the future. Miata Tan: That’s so important. Kind of, breaking down those, those stereotypes Yuan Wang: totally breaking down stereotypes, breaking down misinformation. And yeah, it reminds me of a few years ago Lavender Phoenix held a few conversations with a partner organization of ours where there were some younger folks from our organization who are talking to some older immigrant members of that organization and we’re just [00:22:00] connecting about, the sacred importance of, parenting trans and queer kids right now of, you know, and, and just having conversations that actually humanize all of us rather than buying into narratives and stories that that dehumanize and, and that flatten us. Yeah. Um, so that we can defend ourselves from the way that the right wing is trying to hurt immigrant communities and trans and queer communities. Miata Tan: the youth that you work directly with each week. Is there anything as you reflect back on your, your time with Laxs that really stand out, things that folks have said or led conversations in? Yuan Wang: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, I, I could, I could celebrate things that I’ve witnessed every single year. You know, we the young people in the summer organizer program experience so, so much in, in many ways it’s kind of like the faucets, like all the way on, you know, like there’s, [00:23:00] they’re learning so much about skills and values and projects and, you know, just as some examples this last summer, we had a team of summer organizers who helped lead an event that was about COVID safety and disability justice, where people actually got together to build DIY air filters that could hopefully, you know, make them feel safer in their own homes. And, um, in previous years we’ve had summer organizers work on the peer counseling program. There’s so much that folks have done. I think what I actually hear year after year is oftentimes the thing that sticks out the most, it isn’t necessarily just the project, it isn’t necessarily like the hard skill training. It’s people saying every single week during our team check-ins, someone shared an affirmation with me. I felt more seen. It’s people saying, you know, I didn’t expect that we were gonna do a three hour training. That was just about why it’s so important [00:24:00] to ask for help and why that can be so, so difficult for, um, for queer and trans young folks. It’s folks saying, you know, even speaking for myself actually. I remember being a summer organizer and one of, uh, my close friends now one of our elders, Vince spoke on a panel for us and, talked about what it was like to be young during the height of the hiv aids crisis, you know, when the government was neglecting to care for folks and so many members of our community were dying without care, were, were passing away without support. And all of the lessons that Vince took from that time holds now, decades later that still make him feel more hopeful, more committed, more full as a person. Um, that meant so much to me to hear when I was 21 and, still feeling really scared and really lonely, about the future. So I think it’s those, I, I wouldn’t even call them like softer skills, but the [00:25:00] incredible st. Sturdiness and resilience that building long-term relationships creates that seeing people who show you a potential path, if it’s been hard to imagine the future. And that building the skills that make relationships more resilient. I feel like it’s those things that always stand out the most to a lot of our young people. And then to me, I see them grow in it and be challenged by those things every single year. I feel really good. ’cause I know that at the end of the summer organizer program, there’s a group of young, queer and trans API rising leaders who are gonna bring that level of rigorous kindness, attentive attentiveness to emotions, um, of vulnerability that creates more honesty and interdependence. They’re gonna be taking that to an another organization, to another environment, to another year in our movement. That makes me feel really happy and hopeful. Miata Tan: Yes. Community. Yuan Wang: Yeah. Miata Tan: . [00:26:00] Looking towards that bright future that you, you shared just now Tina Shelf is coming on as the executive director. What are your hopes for 2026 Yuan Wang: yeah. You know, I’m, I’m so excited that we’re welcoming Tina and we’re really lucky because Tina joined us in August of this year. So we’ve had a good, like five months to overlap with each other and to really, um, for all of us, not just me, but our staff, our members, to really welcome and support Tina in onboarding to the role. I feel incredibly excited for Lavender Phoenix’s future. I think that in this next year, on one hand, our Care Knock Cops campaign, which has been a huge focus of the organization where uh, we’ve been rallying other organizations and people across San Francisco to fight to direct funding from policing to. To protect funding that’s being threatened every year for housing, for healthcare, for human services that people really [00:27:00] need. I think we’re gonna see that campaign grow and there are so many members and staff who are rigorously working on that every single day. And on the other hand, I think that this is a time for Lavender Phoenix to really sturdy itself. We are in we’re approaching, the next stage of an authoritarian era that we’ve been getting ready for many years and is in other ways as so many folks are saying new and unprecedented. So I think, um, a lot of our work in this next year is actually making sure that our members’ relationships to each other are stronger, making sure that, responsibility, is shared in, in, in greater ways that encourage more and more leadership and growth throughout our membership so that we are more resilient and less res reliant on smaller and smaller groups of people. I think you’re gonna see our program and campaign work continue to be impactful. And I’m really hopeful that when we talk again, maybe in two years, three years, five years, we’re gonna be [00:28:00] looking at an organization that’s even more resilient and even more connected internally. Miata Tan: It’s really important that y’all are thinking so long term, I guess, and have been preparing for this moment in many ways. On a personal note, as you are coming to an end as executive director, what’s what’s next for you? I’d love to know. Yuan Wang: Yeah, that’s such a sweet question. I’m going to, I’m gonna rest for a little bit. Yeah. I haven’t taken a sustained break from organizing since I was 18 or so. So it’s been a while and I’m really looking forward to some rest and reflection. I think from there. I’m gonna figure out, what makes sense for me in terms of being involved with movement and I’m, I’m certain that one of those things will be staying involved. Lavender Phoenix as a member. Really excited to keep supporting our campaign work. Really excited to keep supporting the organization as a whole just from a role that I’ve never had as a volunteer member. So, I’m just psyched for that and I can’t [00:29:00] wait to be a part of Lavender Phoenix’s future in this different way. Miata Tan: Have fun. You’ll be like on the other side almost. Yeah, Yuan Wang: totally. Totally. And, and getting to see and support our incredible staff team just in a different way. Miata Tan: One final question As you are sort of moving into this next stage, and this idea of community and base building being so incredibly important to your work and time with Lavender Phoenix, is there anything you’d like to say, I guess for someone who might be considering. Joining in some way or Yeah. Where they could get involved, but they’re not, not quite sure. Yuan Wang: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think that if you are a queer and trans, API person who is looking for community, um, looking to channel what you care about into action, looking to be with other people who care about you Lavender Phoenix is here. [00:30:00] And I think that there is no more critical time. Than the one we’re in to get activated and to try to organize. ‘Cause our world really needs us right now. The world needs all of us and it also really needs the wisdom, the experience, and the love of queer and trans people. So, I will be rejoining our membership at some point and I’d really like to meet you and I hope that we get to, to grow in this work and to, um, to fight for our freedom together. Miata Tan: Thank you so much. We, this was a really lovely conversation. Yuan Wang: Yeah, thank you so much And also welcome Tina. Good luck. [00:31:00] [00:32:00] [00:33:00] Miata Tan: That was the Love by Jason Chu, featuring Fuzzy. If you’re just joining us, you are tuned into APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and [00:34:00] online@kpfa.org. I am your host, Miata Tan, and today we are joined by the Lavender Phoenix team at a transitional point in the organization’s story. Our next guest is Tina Shauf-Bajar, the incoming director of this local organization, supporting queer and trans Asian and Pacific Islander Youth. As a reminder throughout this conversation, you’ll hear us referring to the org as both Lavender, Phoenix and Lani. Miata Tan: Hi Tina. Tina Shauf-Bajar: Hi Miata. Miata Tan: How you going today? Tina Shauf-Bajar: I’m doing well, thank you. How are you? Miata Tan: Yeah, not so bad. Just excited to speak with you. tell me more about yourself what’s bringing you into Lavender Phoenix. Tina Shauf-Bajar: Sure, sure. Well I am the incoming executive director of Lavender Phoenix. Prior to this, I was working at the California Domestic Workers Coalition [00:35:00] and had also worked at the Filipino Community Center and, um, have done some grassroots organizing, building, working class power, um, over the last 20 years, of my time in the Bay Area. And I’ve been alongside Lavender Phoenix as an organization that I’ve admired for a long time. Um, and now at the beginning of this year, I was I had the opportunity to apply for this executive director position and talked with un, um, had a series of conversations with UN about, um, what this role looks like and I got really excited about being a part of this organization. Miata Tan: That’s super cool. So you, you, you weren’t quite in the space with Lavender Phoenix, but moving alongside them through your work, like what were what were the organizations that you were part of when you were, were working in tandem, I guess. Tina Shauf-Bajar: Well the organization that I feel like is most, most closely, relates with Lavender. Phoenix is, [00:36:00] um, Gabriela, which is a Filipino organization. It’s a Filipino organization that’s a part of a national democratic movement of the Philippines. And we advance national democracy in the Philippines. And, liberation for our people and our homeland. Sovereignty for our homeland. And Gabriela here in the US does organizing with other multi-sectoral organizations, including like migrant organizations, like Ante and youth organizations like Naan and we organize in diaspora. And the reason for that is because many of our families actually leave the Philippines due to, um, corrupt government governance, um, also like foreign domination and exploitation and plunder of our resources. And so many of us actually have to leave our countries to, to survive. And so we’re still very connected. Gabriela is still very connected to, [00:37:00] um, the movement in the Philippines. And yeah, so we’re advancing liberation for our people and have been alongside Lavender Phoenix for many years. And here we are. Miata Tan: That’s beautiful. I love hearing about, all of these partnerships and, and colLavoration works that happen in the San Francisco Bay Area and, and beyond as well. it sounds like you’re speaking from a personal place when you talk about, um, a lot of these immigrant communities. Could you speak more to your family background and what brings you into this? Tina Shauf-Bajar: The, the fight for immigrant justice? So I was born in the Philippines and um, I spent my childhood and adolescent since the, in the South Bay of LA and then came here to the Bay Area in the year 2000. Flashing back to when my parents immigrated here, my dad’s family first came to the US um, by way of the Bay Area in the late sixties and [00:38:00] early seventies. My dad actually was a few years after he had arrived, was uh, drafted into the military so that they can send him to Vietnam, but instead of going to Vietnam, he took the test to go into the Air Force and traveled everywhere in the Air Force and ended up in the Philippines and met my, met my mom there. And so. That became like they got married and they had me, I was born in the Philippines. I have a younger sibling. And, um, and I think, um, growing up in, in a working class immigrant neighborhood black and brown neighborhood, um, it was always important to me to like find solidarity between. Between communities. I actually grew up in a neighborhood that didn’t have a lot of Filipinos in it, but I, I felt that solidarity knowing that we were an immigrant family, immigrant, working class family. And when I was in [00:39:00] college, when I went to college up in, in Berkeley, um, that was the time when the war on Iraq was waged by the US. I got really I got really curious and interested in understanding why war happens and during that time I, I feel like I, I studied a lot in like ethnic studies classes, Asian American studies classes and also, got involved in like off campus organizing and um, during that time it was with the Filipinos for Global Justice Not War Coalition. I would mobilize in the streets, in the anti-war movement during that time. Um, and from there I met a lot of the folks in the national democratic movement of the Philippines and eventually joined an organization which is now known as Gabriela. And so. That was my first political home that allowed me to understand my family’s experience as [00:40:00] immigrants and why it’s important to, to advance our rights and defend our, defend our people. And also with what’s happening now with the escalated violence on our communities it. It’s our duty to help people understand that immigrants are not criminals and our people work really hard to, to provide for our families and that it’s our human right to be able to work and live in dignity, uh, just like anyone else. Miata Tan: You are speaking to something really powerful there. The different communities that you’ve been involved with, within the Filipino diaspora, but who are some other immigrant folks that you feel like have really helped shape your political awakening and, and coming into this space, and also how that leads into your work with Lav Nix today? Tina Shauf-Bajar: When I was working at the Filipino [00:41:00] community center that gave me a, gave me a chance to learn to work with other organizations that were also advancing, like workers’ rights and immigrant rights. Many centers in San Francisco that, um, work with immigrant workers who. Wouldn’t typically like fall into the category of union unionized workers. They were like workers who are work in the domestic work industry who are caregivers, house cleaners and also we worked with organizations that also have organized restaurant workers, hotel workers. In like non-union, in a non-union setting. And so to me I in integrating in community like that, it helped me really understand that there were many workers who were experiencing exploitation at really high levels. And that reregulate like regulation of, um, Lavor laws and things like that, it’s like really. [00:42:00] Unregulated industries that really set up immigrant workers in, in really poor working conditions. Sometimes abusive conditions and also experiencing wage theft. And for me, that really moved me and in my work with Gabriela and the community and the Filipino Community Center, we were able to work with, um. Teachers who actually were trafficked from the Philippines. These teachers actually, they did everything right to try to get to the, the US to get teaching jobs. And then they ended up really paying exorbitant amount of, of money to like just get processed and make it to the us. To only find themselves in no teaching jobs and then also working domestic work jobs just to like survive. And so during that time, it really like raised my consciousness to understand that there was something bigger that wa that was happening. The, [00:43:00] the export of our people and exploitation of our people was happening, not just at a small scale, but I learned over time that. Thousands of Filipinos actually leave the Philippines every day just to find work and send money back to their families. And to me that just was like throughout my time being an activist and organizer it was important to me to like continue to, to like advance poor, working class power. And that I see that as a through line between many communities. And I know that like with my work in Lav Nix that the folks who experience it the most and who are most impacted by right-wing attacks and authoritarianism are people who are at the fringes. And born working class trans and queer people. Within our [00:44:00] sector. So yeah. Being rooted in this, in this principle of advancing foreign working class power is really core to my to my values in any work that I do. Miata Tan: What are some other key issue Areas you see that are facing this community and especially queer folks within Asian American communities today? Tina Shauf-Bajar: The administration that we’re under right now works really hard to drive wedges between. All of us and, um, sewing division is one of the t tactics to continue to hoard power. And with Lavender Phoenix being a trans and queer API organization that’s building power, it’s important for us to understand that solidarity is a thing that that’s gonna strengthen us. That that trans and queer folks are used as wedges in, in [00:45:00] conservative thinking. I’m not saying that like it’s just conservatives, but there’s conservative thinking in many of our cultures to think that trans and queer folks are not, are not human, and that we deserve less and we don’t deserve to be recognized as. As fully human and deserve to live dignified lives in our full selves. I also know that locally in San Francisco, the API community is used as a wedge to be pitted against other communities. Let’s say the black commun the black community. And, um, it’s important for us as an organization to recognize that that we, we can position ourselves to like wield more solidarity and be in solidarity with, with communities that are experiencing the impacts of a system that continues to exploit our people and [00:46:00] continues to view our people as not fully deserving. Not fully human and that our people deserve to be detained, abducted, and deported. That our people deserve to not be taken care of and resourced and not have our basic needs like housing and food and healthcare and it impacts all of us. And so, I see our responsibility as Lavender Phoenix, and, and in the other organizing spaces that I’m a part of that it, it is our responsibility to expose that we are not each other’s enemies. Hmm. And that we are stronger in fighting for our needs and our dignity together. Miata Tan: Community. [00:47:00] Community and strength. I’m thinking about what you said in terms of this, the API solidarity alongside queer folks, alongside black and brown folks. Do you have a, perhaps like a nice memory of that, that coming together? Tina Shauf-Bajar: So one of the most consistent, things that I would go to, that’s, that Lavender Phoenix would, would lead year after year in the last 10 years is Trans March. And my partner and I always make sure that we mobilize out there and be with Laxs. And it’s important to us to be out there. in more recent trans marches. Just with a lot of the escalation of violence in Gaza and ongoing genocide and also just the escalated attacks on on immigrants and increased right and increased ice raids. [00:48:00] And and also the, we can’t forget the police, the Police killings of black people. And I feel like at Trans March with Lavender Phoenix, it’s also a way for us to come together and you know, put those messages out there and show that we are standing with all these different communities that are fighting, repression, And it’s always so joyful at Trans March too. We’re like chanting and we’re holding up our signs. We’re also out there with or you know, people, individuals, and organizations that might not be politically aligned with us, but that’s also a chance for us to be in community and, and show demonstrate this solidarity between communities. Miata Tan: It’s so beautiful to see. It’s, it’s just like what a colorful event in so many ways. Uh, as you now step into the director role at Lav [00:49:00] Nix, Lavender Phoenix, what are you most excited about? What is 2026 gonna look like for you? Tina Shauf-Bajar: I am most excited about integrating into this organization fully as the executive director and I feel so grateful that this organization is trusting me to lead alongside them. I’ve had the chance to have conversations with lots of conversations since, since my time onboarding in August through our meetings and also like strategy sessions where I’ve been able to connect with staff and members and understand what they care about, how they’re thinking about. Our our strategy, how we can make our strategy sharper and more coordinated, um, so that we can show up in, in a more unified way, um, not just as an organization, but, but as a part of a larger movement ecosystem that we’re a part of [00:50:00] and that we’re in solidarity with other organizations in. So I am looking forward to like really embodying that. it takes a lot of trust for an organization to be like, look, you, you weren’t one of our members. You weren’t a part of our staff prior to this, but we are trusting you because we’ve been in community and relationship with you and we have seen you. And so I just feel really grateful for that. Miata Tan: For an organization like Lav Nix, which with such a rich history in, in the Bay Area is there anything from. That history that you are now taking into 2026 with you? Tina Shauf-Bajar: Yeah, I mean, I think in seeing how Lavender Phoenix has transformed over the last 10 years is really not being afraid to transform. Not being afraid to step even more fully into [00:51:00] our power. The organization is really well positioned to yeah, well positioned to build power in, in a larger community. And so I, I feel like I’ve seen that transformation and I get to also, I get to also continue that legacy after UN and also the previous leaders before that and previous members and staff, um, we stand on the, on their shoulders. I stand on their shoulders. it’s so beautiful, like such a nice image. Everyone together, yeah, no, totally. I mean, just in the last few weeks, I, I’ve connected with the three executive directors before me. And so when I say. I stand on their shoulders and like I’m a part of this lineage I still have access to. And then I’ve also been able to connect with, you know with a movement elder just last week where I was like, wow, you know, I get [00:52:00] to be a part of this because I’m now the executive director of this organization. Like, I also get to inherit. Those connections and I get to inherit the work that has been done up to this point. And I feel really grateful and fortunate to be inheriting that and now being asked to take care of it so. and I know I’m not alone. I think that’s what people keep saying. It’s like, you’re not, you know, you’re not alone. Right. I’m like, yeah. I keep telling myself that. It’s true. It’s true, it’s true. Miata Tan: Latinx has a strong core team and a whole range of volunteers that also aid in, in, in your work, and I’m sure everyone will, everyone will be there to make sure that you don’t like the, the, the shoulders are stable that you’re standing on. Tina Shauf-Bajar: Totally, totally. I mean, even the conversations that I’ve been a part of, I’m like, I’m the newest one here. Like, I wanna hear from you, [00:53:00] like, what, how are you thinking about this? There is so much desire to see change and be a part of it. And also so much brilliance like and experience to being a part of this organization. So yeah, absolutely. I’m not alone. Miata Tan: One final question as with youth really being at the center of, of Lav Nix’s work. Is there something about that that you’re excited just, just to get into next year and, and thinking about those, those young people today that are you know, maybe not quite sure what’s going on, the world looks a little scary. Like what, what can, what are you excited about in terms of helping those, those folks? Tina Shauf-Bajar: Well, for a long time I, I worked with youth years ago before I before I found myself in like workers justice and workers’ rights building working class power. I also worked with working class [00:54:00] youth at one point, and I, I was one of those youth like 20 years ago. And so, I know what my energy was like during that time. I also know how I also remember how idealistic I was and I remember how bright-eyed it was. And like really just there wasn’t openness to learn and understand how I could also be an agent of change and that I didn’t have to do that alone. That I could be a part of something bigger than myself. And so so yeah, I think that like wielding the power of the youth in our communities and the different sectors is I think in a lot of ways they’re the ones leaving us, they know, they know what issues speak to, to them. This is also the world they’re inheriting. they have the energy to be able to like and lived experience to be able to like, see through change in their lifetime. And you know, I’m, [00:55:00] I’m older than them. I’m older than a lot of them, but, I also can remember, like I, I can look back to that time and I know, I know that I had the energy to be able to like, you know, organize and build movement and, and really see myself as, as a, as someone who could be a part of that. My first week here in, in August I actually was able to, to meet the, the, um, summer organizer, the summer organizers from our program. And I was, it just warms my heart because I remember being that young and I remember, remember being that like determined to like figure out like, what is my place in, in organizing spaces. So they were the ones who really like, radically welcomed me at first. You know, like I came into the office and like we were co-working and they were the ones who radically welcomed me and like showed me how they show up in, in, um, [00:56:00] Lav Nix Spaces. I learned from them how to fundraise, like how Lavender Phoenix does it, how we fundraise. And um, one of them fundraised me and I was like, I was like, how can I say no? Like they yeah. That we need that type of energy to keep it fresh. Miata Tan: something about that that, um. It is exciting to think about when thinking about the future. Thank you so much for joining us, Tina. This was such a beautiful conversation. I’m so excited for all of your work. Tina Shauf-Bajar: Thank you so much. Miata Tan: That was Tina Shauf-Bajar, the incoming executive director at Lavender Phoenix. You can learn more about the organization and their fantastic work at LavenderPhoenix.org. We thank all of you listeners out there, and in the words of Keiko Fukuda, a Japanese American judoka and Bay Area legend, “be strong, be [00:57:00] gentle, be beautiful”. A little reminder for these trying times. For show notes, please check our website at kpfa.org/program/APEX-express. APEX Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight’s show was produced by me, Miata Tan. Get some rest y’all. Good night. The post APEX Express – 12.25.25 – A Conversation with Lavender Phoenix: The Next Chapter appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Important Links We Belong Here campaign page We Belong Here Partner organizations: Asian Law Caucus |Asian Refugees United | Hmong Innovating Politics | Hmong Family Association of Lansing | Rising Voices Transcript APEX Express: Hello and welcome. You are tuning into APEX Express, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans. I’m your host, and tonight we are doing something a little different. Earlier this month on Monday, November 3rd, communities of Hmong and Nepali speaking, Bhutanese Americans, fellow immigrants and allies, gathered together at a virtual [00:01:00] community event called We Belong Here. The goal: to shed light on the continued detainment and deportation of immigrant communities in the United States and the specific challenges faced by Bhutanese, Hmong, and Southeast Asian folks. Tika Basnet: When, uh, my husband got detained on April 8, I took one week after to reach out Aisa and she told me, Hey Tika, come forward, you know, your story is powerful. People need to know your story. APEX Express: That was the voice of Tika Basnet. Her husband, Mohan Karki is a Nepali speaking Bhutanese refugee from Ohio who has spent months in ICE detention, trapped in legal limbo. Tika has been working tirelessly to bring her husband home and shared her story with us at We Belong Here. Tonight, we are bringing you a recording of this virtual community gathering. You’ll hear more from Tika about the Free Mohan Karki campaign and from Ann Vue, [00:02:00] the spouse of Lue Yang, a Hmong community leader from Michigan, who is also currently detained and facing deportation. Ann is leading the movement to Bring Lue Home, and we’ll be sharing more later about how you can get involved as well and support both of these campaigns. You will also hear from state representatives of Michigan and Ohio, the music and spoken word performance of Asian Refugees United, and community tools and resources that a vital in helping to keep our immigrant loved ones safe. The host of this community event was Miko Lee, APEX producer, and a voice that you might be familiar with. Alrighty, without further ado, here’s Miko. Miko Lee: We belong here. What we recognize right now is there’s almost. 60,000 people being held in detention right now, immigrants that are being held in detention. It is a pandemic that is happening in our country that’s impacting all of our people, and we need [00:03:00] to be able to take action. Tonight we’re talking very specifically, not with this 60,000 people that are in detention now, but just two of those stories, so that you can get a sense of what is happening in the Bhutanese and Hmong communities and what’s happening right now, and to talk about those particular stories and some actions you can take. First I wanna recognize that right now we are on native lands, so all of us except our original indigenous people, are from other places and I’d invite you to go into the chat and find your native land. I am speaking with you from the unceded Ohlone land, and I wanna honor these ancestors, these elders that have provided for us and provided this beautiful land for us to be on. So I invite you to share into the chat your name, your pronoun, and also what indigenous land you are living on right now in this Native American Heritage Month. Thank you so much to all of you that have joined [00:04:00] us. We are really seeing the impact of this administration on all of our peoples, and particularly tonight in terms of the Hmong and Nepali speaking, Bhutanese communities. These are communities that have been impacted, specifically refugee communities that have been impacted in incredible detrimental ways by this administration. And tonight what we really wanna do is talk to you about what is going on in our communities. We wanted to make sure we translated so that we have as much access into our communities as possible because we wanna be as inclusive of our world as we can. We Belong Here is focusing on the fact that all of us belong here. We belong in this land, and we are telling these stories tonight in the context of these sets of people particularly that have so many similarities in terms of Hmong folks who worked with our US government and worked with our US military during the Vietnam War and then came [00:05:00] here as refugees and stayed in this country to the Nepali speaking Bhutanese folks, who left their country from ethnic cleansing and then went into refugee camps and now took refuge in the United States. So these are all stories that are impactful and powerful, and it’s really what it means to be American. we have come from different places. We see these attacks on our people. right now I would like to bring to the fore two empowering women, refugees themselves. Hailing from places as different as Somalia and Southeast Asia, and they’re gonna talk about some of the detention and deportations that are happening right now. First I’d like to focus on Rep Mai Xiong, who’s from Michigan’s 13th District. I hand it over to the representative. Rep. Mai Xiong: Good evening everyone. I’m state representative, Mai Xiong, and it is a pleasure to meet all of you virtually. I’m coming to you from Warren, Macomb County, Michigan, and I represent the 13th [00:06:00] house of district, uh, the communities of Warren Roseville and St. Claire Shores. I’ve lived here in Michigan for over 20 years now. I came to the United States at a very young age, was born in a refugee camp and came here when I was three years old. So I grew up in Ohio. And then I moved to Michigan to attend college. Never thought that I would ever be serving in the State House. I previously served as a county commissioner here in Macomb. And, uh, last year when President Trump got elected, I had very quiet fears that as a naturalized citizen, that even I did not feel safe given the, um. The failure in our immigration system. So we have seen that play out, uh, with this administration, with the, attempts to get rid of birthright citizenship de-naturalization. And, you hear the rhetoric from officials about, deporting the worst of the worst criminal, illegal aliens. And we [00:07:00] know, as Miko mentioned in, in her introduction, that, refugees came here through a legal pathway. The Hmong in particular served alongside America during the Vietnam War and were persecuted from Laos. So my parents fled Laos. And so growing up I didn’t have, uh, citizenship. Um, and so we have seen, uh, in this administration that refugees are now caught up in this, immigration effort to get rid of people who came here through legal pathways Lue is a father. He is a community leader. Uh, he is a well-respected member of our community as all of these individuals are. And at some point our system failed them and we are working extremely hard, to get their stories out. But what I have found with many of these families is that they are, uh, afraid to come forward. They are ashamed. There is a stigma involved and, uh, culturally, as many of you may [00:08:00] know, if you are of Asian American descent, and a fear of, uh, retaliation. And as the only Hmong American elected here in Michigan, I’m grateful that I have, uh, the ability to. have those connections and to be such a visible, uh, member of my community that many of these individuals. Felt comfortable enough to reach out to me. But the reality is back in July we didn’t know anything other than, the number of people who were detained. And that was through a firsthand account from loved ones who you know, were accompanying their loved one and got detained. And so it was literally like trying to find missing people and then getting the word out to let them know that, hey, there’s actually, there’s help out there. The volunteer attorneys, the nonprofits, the Immigration Rights Center, uh, here in Michigan, I mean, everybody has been doing a phenomenal job because I think the majority, the vast majority of Americans understand that, um, these [00:09:00] individuals that are being taken out of our communities are not a, a threat to society. They are members of our community. They’ve lived here for decades. They have jobs, they have children. And when you when you take an individual out of our community, it actually does more harm then it does to make any one of us safe. So that’s the message that I have been sharing with others, uh, not only in having a connection and being a refugee just like these individuals, but advocating for them and making it clear that these are our neighbors, these are our children’s classmates, parents, and it doesn’t make any one of us feel safer. One of the things I am. Upset about that I continue to talk about is that we’re not actually in a immigration crisis. We share here in Michigan, we share an international border with Canada, and we have never had an issue with border security. The [00:10:00] problem is the policies that have been put in place, that these individuals have been caught up in our immigration system for decades, and it is extremely hard for them to obtain citizenship or to even know what their rights are. And so we really need, in addition to advocating for these families, we need immigration reform. Throwing money at a problem is not going to solve the problem. If anything, we have are, we are in an economic crisis. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for joining. Um, I’d love to turn the baton over to another one of our powerful women representatives, Rep. Munira Abdullah from Ohio’s Ninth District. Rep Abdullah. We pass it over to you. Thank you so much. Rep. Munira Abdullahi: Uh, thank you for having me and also Rep Mai Xiong, it is really great to see you. I’m grateful to have been able to see you go from Commissioner to State Rep, doing amazing things on social media as well. I’m very, a big fan. Uh, my name is Munira Abdullahi. I represent District Nine in Ohio, which is in the Columbus area. Northland, [00:11:00] uh, Manette Park. Uh, a little bit of New Albany in Westerville city schools. Um, I’m also a refugee. My family fled Somalia and Civil War, and I was born in refugee camp in Kenya. And then we came to the United States when I was about two, three years old, uh, and ended up moving to Ohio when I was like four. First moved to Utah, salt Lake City, Utah, and then to Ohio when I was about five years old. And so I certainly understand the fear of being an immigrant in a new country and, um, struggling to belong and figure out where are your place is. And, and also just adjusting to a whole new society, um, with the language barriers and, and all of the the barriers are in the way. And then that fear of, your immigration status. You know, before my parents were, you know, passed their, their, uh, citizenship test, right. It was very scary. Um, and I know many families who feel the same way right now, especially with this new administration. Um, with the OCE raids that are happening that are really disrupting our communities and our [00:12:00] families. Um, we have a, a, a cons, a constituent of mine, um, who is now, uh, in prison. We have, uh, have a couple actually. One is Leonardo Faso, and then I know one we’re gonna talk about soon is Mohan Karki, who is his family, I believe, is on this call. Uh, and he was taken by ICE. And he’s, uh, you know, the, the breadwinner and the, the caregiver of his family. And so it’s really important not to forget that a lot of these people who are being taken by ICE are like the breadwinners and, and, and the caretakers of these families. And now the family’s left with a hole, uh, in their, in their home. And so, we really need to remember to take care of these families. I know there’s gonna be a GoFundMe that that will be shared. Um, but finding these families and supporting them. Um, in any way that we can monetary, you know, checking on them, giving, you know, helping them with food. Now we have SNAP benefits are being cut for many, many, many Americans. We are struggling as is, but immigrants in particular are struggling a lot, lot more, um, with these raids and, and with the uncertainties. But one thing I wanna remind everyone is that, you know, through community we [00:13:00] find strength. And so that, um, understanding, you know, where our communities are, where people are suffering and finding our place and helping with that, right? Whether that might, might be, uh, maybe we have the financial capabilities to, to support, maybe we can cook for someone. Um, maybe we can advocate where, where we have the ability to advocate. Whatever we can do, we have a responsibility to do it. Um, and there are successes. I know in Ohio it’s a little different where we can’t really advocate anything on the state level because it’s like they, we just make things worse. We’re in a very rough, super minority, the Democrats and super minority, and we have bills in the State House we’re trying to fight against that are trying to make it worse, where we’re trying to get rid of Republicans in the State House are trying to get rid of like a sanctuary cities, um, and penalize cities that don’t engage, uh, or don’t cooperate with ICE. Um, we have currently a bill, which actually this is, this might be more of a, on a positive note, is we had a bill house bill one. That sought to ban immigrants, certain immigrants from owning land in certain areas. [00:14:00] But because of community engagement, because of advocacy, because of collaboration with community advocacy groups, that Bill was effectively paused. Like, as of now, it’s paused because people came and advocated. They spoke to their representatives, they testified, they called, they protested, um, they had press conferences. They brought so much attention to the bill, and it just became so. Obvious that people don’t want this bill. And that pressure really got to the majority in the State House. And that bill has been paused, right? It was created to keep Chinese Americans from buying land specifically. Um, and that list can change, by the way. It’s an, it’s a, a rotating list. The Secretary of State can add whatever countries that they want to, that list, so it’s very harmful. But the Asian American community came together alongside with us representatives in the State House and, and effectively like paused that bill. So there’s there are positive things we could, we could achieve as a community when we fight together and communicate and stand with one another regardless of our nationality. We’re all struggling here. We’re [00:15:00] all in the same place. We’re all, uh, in need of one another. And that’s why I was reminding people was like, when we are in need of one another. And when one person is struggling, we should all be feeling that. Miko Lee: Thank you Rep Munira. Thank you so much for joining us. And yes, we are all part of a collective community that needs to be working together. And Rep Munira talked about Mohan Karki and next we’re gonna see a short video performance that was created by Asian refugees United, uh, Maxine Hong Kingston said, “in a time of destruction, create something”. So we’re gonna watch this video that was created. Uh, it’s a shortcut of a performance by Asian Refugees United. APEX Express: Hello, it’s your APEX Express host chiming in with a couple words on this performance. It’s a very music and spoken word forward piece, so you should get a good sense of the production through just the audio. The youth performers from Asian Refugees United do a wonderful job of embodying the story of Mohan Karki and his family through music and [00:16:00] movement and dance as well. Very evocative. If you’d like to see this short video clip in full, with the visuals, please visit the website of Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality. That’s accre.org/our-voices/webelonghere. Enjoy the show. ARU Performer: Mohan Karki, I was detained by an ICE officer to be deported to a country that I never been to. A country. That I don’t belong to [00:17:00] a country I wasn’t born to, that I don’t speak the language of. When they moved me to a detention center in Michigan, I called my wife Tika. They’re taking me, I told her my voice was calm, but inside I was breaking into a million pieces. It felt like a goodbye, not just to her, but to the life we built together to the dreams that we planted seeds for. I was just 17 years old when I decided who I was before I could even speak up for myself. I stand here as a victim of an unjust system that never gave me a chance.[00:18:00] I am a man with purpose. I worked hard. I drove trucks. I supported my family, and I loved my wife Tika, and waited for the day that I would finally meet our baby. [Speaks in Nepali] How do I tell my daughter that leaving her was never my choice? Now I wait for the news. Now would completely change everything. Will they send me back to Bhutan? Will I be deported like the ones before me? No one talks about what happens to us [00:19:00] once we’re gone. We vanish. Into silence. Where do I belong? You belong here. They belong here. We belong here. [Singing in Nepali] [Speaks in Nepali] What type of future do we wanna build? A future where we can all belong? A future where we can coexist, [00:20:00] coexist in nature. And coexist with each other. A future where another Mohan Karki does not have to fear of being displaced all over again. A future where Mohan Karki does not have to be separated from his new born baby girl. A place where people like Mohan Carkey can have home, a future and community, a future with family, a future and harmony. A future to heal. A future to grow. Above all, a future to belong. I hope the future is more generous to all of us. [Singing in [00:21:00] Nepali] Miko Lee: Can you all give it up in the chat for those performers. Nawal was our interpreter at the very beginning of this, and to show the power of how art can transform things at that performance, the ACLU was there. And actually because of that, we were able to find a pro bono lawyer to be able to help with one of, uh, Mohans Habeas Corpuses cases and just that’s an example of Asian refugees United, that was their work before all of these detentions were going on. It was youth empowerment and storytelling, but they had to pivot, given the shape of our world. I wanna transition us to our panel of speakers of powerful. Again, powerful women. [00:22:00] Um, Ann Vue who is the spouse of Lue Yang, Tika Bassett, who is the spouse of Mohan Karki and Aisa Villarosa, who has been our brilliant, dedicated lawyer from Asian Law Caucus working on this. So we’re not gonna go over and tell the entire stories of each of these people and what happened to them. And if you want that, you can listen to the radio show that we did on APEX Express. Tika, I wanted to start with you and just hear from you, what is your response after watching that video about your husband? Tika Basnet: Yeah, it is really beautiful story. Um, thank you ARU for, um, representing my husband story. Um, it just make, make me cry and I was crying while watching the video and it remind me what happened. Since seven month ago. And, um, yeah. Hi, my name is Tika Basnet. I’m from Ohio and I’ve been fighting for my husband deportation and detention since seven month ago. Without the community and without all the [00:23:00] support that I got from organization, I don’t think it is possible that my husband will still be here. And the reason that this is possible is because I reach out to them without getting fear, without getting afraid of what will happen if I speak outside. So, um, yeah, um, it is really difficult. What is going on right now. Sometime I don’t wanna speak because of the current policy. Uh, it make me feel, even though I’m US citizen, um, sometime I feel like if I speak something against the policy, I, they will might, they might gonna take my citizenship away. And then, um, I realized that, if I speak then it’ll help me. Right now, um, ICE is not letting my husband come home, even though it is been seven month and our attorney try everything in a possible way. Uh, the ICE is not letting my husband come out. I dunno how long it’ll take. I don’t know. don’t wanna, yeah. Thank you. Miko Lee: No, you can speak more. Tika. Do you wanna add? Tika Basnet: Yeah, um, especially I wanna thank you [00:24:00] ARU and Aisa and Miko. Everything is happening right now is because of them, because I reached out to them. If I did not, I feel like my husband is story will be one of those Bhutanese people that disappear. I don’t know what happened to them. I hope, uh, the reason that I’m fighting for my husband case is because he deserve fear. Uh, he has a family member here. He has a community that loves him. He was supporting his parent, he was supporting us. We don’t have a country. Um, this is our country and we belong here. Thank you. Miko Lee: You. Thank you, Tika. I wanna bring Ann Vue up to speak about your husband, Lue Yang and his case and what’s going on with his case. Very complicated case. What is going on with his case right now? Ann Vue: So first of all, Thank you guys so much for. Giving Tika and I this space just to share our stories of families who are fighting every day, um, just to stay together. So [00:25:00] currently with Lue’s case right now we are, we just got his, um, stay of removal approved the emergency stay of removal approved. I might, um, have the right lingo for that, but, uh, so as of October 22nd our Michigan governor’s, pardon was issued for Lue. So we were so grateful for that. I know our, our Michigan lawmakers are working around the clock uh, Michigan DHS team to bring him back to Michigan, uh, where we have a petition currently filed for his release while his case, uh, is ongoing. Miko Lee: Thanks Ann. And I just wanna point out that there’s in, even though these communities are distinct and these two men are distinct, beautiful individuals, there are so many commonalities between the two. Um, both born in refugee camps, both in one case, the Bhutanese, the Nepali speaking Bhutanese, folks having escaped ethnic cleansing to then go to a. Uh, [00:26:00] refugee camp to then come to the US and in another families who worked with the American government in the Secret War in Vietnam, who then again became refugees and came to the US. Two young men who when they were young, like very young, um, with their peers, were involved in incidents that had, uh, really bad legal advice. That did not help them in the process. And that is why even though they’re amazing contributing members in our current society, they have this past old, almost like childhood record that is impacting them. And both of them are impacted by statelessness because. Even though they’re being deported, they’re being deported to a place of which it is not their home. They might not speak that language. They might not have connections with that. Their home is here in America. Um, that is why we say use the terminology we belong here. Um, before we go a little bit more into personal stories [00:27:00] I saw from Asian Law Caucus, I wonder if you can give a little bit of an overview about the broader, legal actions that are taking place around these kidnappings. Aisa Villarosa: Yeah, thanks Miko. And just huge love to Ann and Tika. Reiterating that these are two refugee communities bonded through not just this frustrating, heartbreaking experience, um, but also this, this solidarity that’s building. To share Miko, about the broader legal ramifications, and there was a question in the chat about what’s the big deal about a stay of removal? So just for starters, the system that Mohan and Lue got pulled into can be lightning quick with removing folks. Part of this is because Mohan, Lue, so many folks in refugee communities all across the country years and years ago, perhaps when they were teenagers, just like Mohan and Lue, uh, there might have been some sort of, run in with law enforcement. Oftentimes racial profiling [00:28:00] can be involved, especially with the over-policing, right in our country, decades later, after living peacefully in their communities. Oftentimes decades after an immigration judge said to Mohan, said to Lue, you are not a safety risk. You are not a threat to the community. You’ve done your time. You can come home. Uh, maybe some folks had some ICE check-ins that they would come to every year. Um, and then with this administration, this unprecedented attack on immigrant and refugee rights, that is when we started to see for the very first time as folks have mentioned, these broad deportations, uh, to countries that previously were not accepting refugees primarily because that is the same country of their ancestral persecution. Um, in some cases they have zero connection to the country. Um, and in cases like the Bhutanese refugees, they’re actually [00:29:00] expelled from Bhutan when they’re removed. Again, all this is happening for the very first time. There are some serious legal questions with due process. Even if immigration court does run on a similar track as a lot of our other court systems, there’s still a duty of fairness and often that duty is completely neglected. APEX Express: You are tuned into Apex Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. Coming up is Klezmer Dances II by The Daniel Pelton Collective. [00:30:00] [00:31:00] [00:32:00] That was Klezmer Dances II by The Daniel Pelton Collective. You are tuned into APEX Express [00:33:00] on 94.1 KPFA. Now back to Miko and her conversation with Tika Basnet and Ann Vue. Two incredibly strong women who are leading campaigns to bring home their respective spouses from ICE detention, and Aisa Villarosa with the Asian Law Caucus. Miko Lee: I would love to speak to a little bit more of the uplifting power of these women that are being highlighted right now. And I’m wondering both for Ann and Tika, if you could talk a little bit about your sense of resilience. because both of your spouses were, even though when they were youth, there were systems impacted in our Asian American communities. There’s some shame that’s associated with that. And so some people have been really hesitant to speak out. Can you talk a little bit about what encouraged you to speak out on behalf of your husband and how that has made a difference for you in the community? And I’m gonna start with Ann first. Ann Vue: So I would say, um. In the [00:34:00] beginning when Lue was first detained on July 15th. I was scared. I am the first generation born American, uh, um, right here in Michigan. And even myself, I was so scared to say anything to anyone. I remember getting that call from Lue and it just felt so unreal. Quickly playing back to 2008, uh, which would be the third time that the embassy, Laos and Thailand both rejected Lue’s entry and how his immigration officer was like, don’t wait, start your life. And then fast forwarding it to what had happened, I was scared and, um. Lue and I are both, uh, Hmong community leaders as well. And Lue, of course, um, being president of the Hmong Family Association, him and I decided we’re gonna keep a little quiet at first, and I started getting [00:35:00] calls from our Hmong community members. Uh, in concern to them receiving a letter, which is all dated for the same time at the same place that is not usual, where people would normally go see their immigration officer. And immediately that weekend I went to go visit him and I, it was explaining to him that I have received nine calls and I don’t know what to do in immediately he. I think that the urgency around his people created that fear and immediately he was like, Hey, we’ve gotta start talking. You’ve gotta call you. You have to start making calls. Because he was detained on the 15th. On the 15th, which was Tuesday, and these letters were mailed to the community on that Friday. And immediately him and I started talking more and more and he said, “we have a 50-50 chance. If you don’t fight for me and the others, then. We get sent back, you’re gonna regret that for the rest of your life or [00:36:00] you fight for us. And as long as you fought all the way till the end, whatever happens, we can live with that”. And immediately, I remember speaking to, uh, attorney Nancy, and I’ve been mentioning to her that I wanna call, I wanna call Rep Mai. And I wanted to call Commissioner Carolyn Wright and she was like, well make the call and I’m glad that she didn’t wait. And she just said, Hey, you know what? She just started talking and immediately Rep Mai called and that’s how it kind of started this whole journey. So I am so thankful that I did. I did voice it out because I myself, even as a community leader, I felt hopeless. I felt like as loud as I am, everyone that I, for the first time had no voice. It became, became lonely. I became scared. Because they’ve got a, you know, we have a family, right, that we’re raising together with small children. So I’m glad that we did, uh, [00:37:00] share our story and I’m glad that it is out. And, and that it, it opened the key to many other Southeast Asian families to do the same as well too. Miko Lee: Thank you so much, Anna. And I remember you saying that even Lue was speaking with folks in Spanish to get their stories and share them out as well. Ann Vue: He had to learn it! And you know, I will say that with this whole detention thing, it doesn’t just detain our person. It detains our whole family. We’re all a part of this, you know? And so, you know, Lue had to learn how to count so he can give the numbers ’cause he was doing it with his hand motions. Because it’s a hard system, it’s a very complex system to navigate, which is how people go disappearing. And so for him to be able to reach out. Give me phone numbers to these families, regardless. Love beyond borders, right? And I was able to reach out to these families so that that way they know where their person was and [00:38:00] help them get set up so they can, so their families can call them. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for doing that. And you and your husband, both as organizers and continuing to be organizers even when locked up. Tika, I wanna turn it to you and ask about the courage it took to speak up and what keeps you going. Tika Basnet: Yes. So when, uh, my husband got detained on April 8, I took one week after to reach out Aisa and she told me, Hey Tika, come forward. You know, your story is powerful. People need to know your story. And I told first thing to Aisa is our community is very just mental. They doesn’t understand. And I’ve been looking at the video where our Bhutanese people get detained and deported and on common section, the first thing that I noticed was people are commenting, oh, these people are criminal. They are, maybe they, um, kill someone or they rape someone, you know, without. Understanding the people’s story. And I, I [00:39:00] was thinking the same, whatever, if I come forward, will they gonna understand my story? Will they gonna talk to me? Will they gonna ask me personally, what is going on? And I actually same as Ann, I, um, I. Was scared to come out. I did not come out in two within two, two months, you know, when, uh, I tried to deport my husband on my due date that I was about to give birth, um, BIA, uh, grant, day of removal, you know, in two month I was crying alone. I was messaging Aisa and I was telling all my pain. And then when they stop my husband deport his son and that day, um. Aisa and ARU, everybody encouraged me. Like, you know, you need to come forward. People need to know your story. And then that day I decide, and I also remember that, um, within one minute after I gave birth, I was messaging, uh, ARU team I think his name [00:40:00] is Pravin or something. I was messaging him, Hey, I’m ready to give, uh, interview. I’m ready to give uh, a story. And that day I decide like I wanna come forward. I don’t care what society is thinking, I’m the one that going through and people need to know my story. And, uh, I think, uh, and also I look at my daughter, you know, I don’t want, um, her to think that I did not fight for her dad. You know, I want her to think like her mom is, is strong enough to fight and looking at her. That gave me so much power and yeah. And now like give, getting a lot of support, a lot of love is give me like, you know, I, I feel like, um, I wouldn’t, uh, get all the support if I was scared and did not, uh, talk about my story. So now like receiving a lot of love from everywhere and that give me couraged to continue and talk about my husband’s deportation. Miko Lee: Thank you, Tika. And I wanna recognize that we’re running late, but we’re gonna get through it if those of you could stay with us a little bit [00:41:00] longer. My one more question to both Ann and Tika is what message do you have for people that are experiencing this right now? Because this, as we said, 60,000 people are detained right now. Your spouses, we, as we have said, it’s not just you with your, the children, the grandparents, all the other people. What advice do you have for other folks that are going through this and do you have a message for those folks? Ann Vue: I would say, um, for anyone who is going through what Tika and I and the many are going through that, um, make sure you document everything, get your loved ones Alien Number because you want to track it as you go. Build your circle. Know that you are not alone. Uh, reach out. I’m still learning as I go too. And it’s unfortunate that we as family, like have to become attorneys overnight and learn to as well. But make sure that you guys, that you know that you’re not alone you know that [00:42:00] we’re not fighting the system. We’re fighting a system that. Hopes, uh, that we get tired of fighting it. And the moment that you speak up, they can’t disappear your loved one quietly. And I am a very big, um, firm believer. There’s this scripture that has always carried Lue and I and, uh, I, I can’t stress on it enough. And especially to all of those, to all of our, everybody that’s on tonight. And beyond that, uh, there’s a scripture. It’s a Proverbs, right? 3:27-28 that says, “Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is your power to act”. And so thank you to those who continues to act when action is really within your reach and. We belong here, our families belong here. And compassion delayed is really compassion denied. And so don’t fight alone ’cause that’s what they are hoping that we will fight alone, [00:43:00] but we’re together in this. Miko Lee: Beautiful, thanks. And Tika, what about you? What advice do you have for other people that are experiencing this with family members? Tika Basnet: So, yeah, um, I’m encouraging everyone like we experiencing this deportation for the first time or. Come forward. You never know. You know how many support you will get. Looking at Ann and my story that if we did not reach out to the community, I don’t think our husband will be here at the moment. So you are the one who going through the pain and, uh, sharing your pain will make you at least a relief and you never know. Your husband Deportes and will stop. You will get like support from, from community. So ICE is not deporting only your husband or your like wife or someone, they are deporting your dream, your hope. So when they try to deport my husband, they were deporting my husband, uh, my [00:44:00] daughter future, the future that we talk about. So I am telling everyone that come forward. Story, your story, and you’ll get lot of love. You’ll get lot of support. And if I did not talk before, I don’t think my husband will be here. He’ll be one of the person that disappear long time ago. So yeah, please come forward and see your story. And the last thing is, I wanna say we belong here. This is our home and our future is here. Miko Lee: Thank you so much, Tika. Um, Aisa, I wanna turn it over to you. Ann was saying suddenly we have to become lawyers and, and so can you talk about, and even like with Lue’s case, it was suddenly he got pardoned at the last minute when he was on a deportation plane, and then it was like, oh, that should fix everything, but it doesn’t, so can you talk a little bit about some of the legal ramifications that people should know about? Aisa Villarosa: Sure. And just to say, Mohan, Lue, Tika, Ann, I mean, y’all have lived [00:45:00] several movies in, in just the span of months the amount of stress, both you yourselves as the lead advocate, your families. Uh, so, so for folks watching this is literally Mohan and Lue getting like pulled off planes because of the shared advocacy here, uh, which starts with the decision to speak out. Um, and for folks in the room who aren’t sure whether they want to share their story, you know, we’re not saying, oh, go to the press so much of it. Involves just opening your heart to a trusted person. Um, many of those people are here in this room uh, my organization, Asian Law Caucus. Uh, in a minute we’ll share some links for some of our resources. Uh, the wonderful folks at ARU, there’s such a full crew, and if you’re part of a community, especially the many, many, too many refugee communities being targeted. You are not alone. So in terms of what the legal battle [00:46:00] looks like, another thing to remember is that for any case, there’s usually a, a wave of folks that’s needed, uh, for Lue, for Mohan. That’s multiple states sometimes because in the immigration world, for example, you could have a very, very old final order of removal. So this is essentially the order that is put forward by an immigration judge. That technically allows a lot of these awful deportations and disappearances to take place. The battle to fight that can be multi-state, uh, multi-issue. So you’re talking to a criminal defense attorney, you’re talking to an immigrant rights attorney. Uh, but going back to that trust, just talk to someone who both you can trust and someone who has a good lay of the land because these cases are incredibly complex. Folks I work with, sometimes they’re physically driving to a law office. Someone named Emily is on the call. You know, we drove to a law office. Turns [00:47:00] out the record we were looking for was, was too old. The, that previous attorney didn’t have the record on file. There are so many practical challenges you don’t anticipate. So the sooner you do that math and just open your story up, um, to, to a loved one, to a trusted one. And in a little bit we’re, we’ll share more links for what that process looks like. Miko Lee: So we’re gonna move into that call to action. We’re running a bit over time, so if you could hang with us for a couple more minutes. Um, we want to one, thank all of our amazing guests so far and then move to our call to action. What can you do? A bunch of people are throwing things into the chat. We’re gonna start with Rising Voices. Oh, I guess we’re gonna start with OPAWL and Sonya is gonna share about OPAWL’s work and the call to action there. Sonya (OPAWL): Hi everyone. My name is Sonya Kapur. I live in Columbus, Ohio, and I’m a member of OPAWL Building AAPI Feminist leadership. I’d like to share a little bit about our efforts to support Mohans Campaign for Freedom and encourage you to donate to [00:48:00] Mohans GoFundMe to cover his legal fees, and the link to the GoFundMe will be in the chat. With the funds raised so far, Tika and Mohan were able to hire a seasoned attorney to review Mohans court documents and work on his case. So your donations will allow Mohan to continue working with his legal team as we fight to bring him home. So even five or $10 will help us get closer to reuniting Mohan with his family and community here in Ohio. A really fun piece of this is that a local, Columbus based illustrator and OPA member Erin Siao, has also created a beautiful art fundraiser to help raise more funds from Mohans release campaign. So when you donate to Mohans GoFundMe between now and November 15th, you receive a complimentary five by seven art print of your choice. Families belong together on the right or on the left. To receive a print, you just email Erin and her. Email address will also be in the [00:49:00] chat, a screenshot of your donation confirmation along with your name and address. You can also send a direct message of the screenshot to her Instagram account, so please consider uplifting our art fundraiser on social media. Encourage others to donate to the GoFundMe and share Mohans story with your family and friends. Miko Lee: Thanks, Sonya and Opal, and we’ll turn it over to Emily at Rising Voices. Emily (Rising Voices): Hi, thank you. Um, rising Voices is one of the, uh, many members helping bring Lue Yang home. Just wanna share that. We do have a online petition going that directs you to email the ice field office in Detroit, pressuring them to bring him home. Um, there’s also a number to call with a script provided. So nothing has to be reinvented. We please, please encourage you to share this out, and you do not have to be from Michigan to make a call or email every single email. And, all counts. And we also do have a GoFundMe for [00:50:00] him and his family. As we all know legal file, legal fees pile up, so anything counts. Thank you so much everyone. Miko Lee: Thanks Emily. Now we’re gonna pass it over to Nawal talking about this event which is connected to disappeared in America. Nawal Rai: Hi everyone. I’m Nawal here again and yeah, so We Belong Here. Uh, today’s event was part of the Disappeared in America Weekend of Action, which is a national mobilization action to protect immigrants, uh, expose corporate complicity and honor the lives lost in detention and across America more than 150 towns and cities held. Um. Weekend of Collective action this weekend on November 1st and second, standing in solidarity with immigrants families, uh, from holding freedom vigils outside of ICE facilities to via de Los Mortis gathering, honoring life’s lost in detentions to ice out of Home Depot actions. Calling out corporate complicity this weekend was a resounding nation nationwide call for compassion, dignity, and [00:51:00] democracy, and demanding justice and due process for all. The National Action was organized by the Coalition of Partners, including National Day Labor Organizing Network, Detention Watch Network, the Worker Circle, public ci, uh, citizen, and many allied organization across the country. Thank you all. Thank you for joining us today. Miko Lee: Thank you to everyone for showing up today. We thank all of our speakers, all of our many partner organizations. As we were saying, it takes many of us working together collectively. Even though we said there’s 60,000 people detained. There are so many more than that. We know that immigrants contribute and refugees contribute immensely to the American experience, and we want everyone to know that we belong here. All of us belong here. This is our home. Thank you so much for joining us all. We appreciate all of you, the interpreters, the translators, the folks behind the scene who helped to make this event happen. Um, shout out to Cheryl Truong [00:52:00] and APEX Express for really doing all the tech behind this. And to all of you for showing up tonight, we need each and every one of you to participate to show that you are part of the beloved community, that you are part of believing that America can be a place filled with beloved love instead of hatred. Um, so I would love you all to just all together. Shout out. We belong here. 1, 2, 3. Event Attendees: We belong here. We belong here. We belong here. Miko Lee: Have a great night, and thank you all for joining us. APEX Express: This was a recording of a virtual community gathering that took place earlier this month on Monday, November 3rd. It was made [00:53:00] possible by We Belong Here, a coalition of immigrant rights organizations, Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, Asian Refugees United, Asian Law Caucus, Hmong Family Association Lansing, Hmong Innovative Politics, OPAWL and Rising Voices. As I mentioned earlier, you can watch the phenomenal video performance from Asian Refugees United on the website of Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality. That’s aacre.org/our-voices/webelonghere There’s also up-to-date information on how best you can support both the Free Mohan Karki and Bring Lu Home campaigns. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing. Your voices are important. Let’s keep immigrant families together. To close out. Here’s a little more from the video performance. [00:54:00] [00:55:00] [00:56:00] [00:57:00] APEX Express: For show notes, please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/APEX-express. APEX Express is a collective of activists that include Ama Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar, and Swati Rayasam. Get some rest, y’all. Good night. The post APEX Express – November 27, 2025 – We Belong Here: Bhutanese & HMoob Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness appeared first on KPFA.

How has the classical music industry approached representation and how has the new music community forged new paths to embrace diverse musics? On tonight’s episode of Obbligato on APEX Express, Isabel Li is joined by violinist Shalini Vijayan, who discusses her vibrant career and reflects upon the ways contemporary classical music can build community. Violinist Shalini Vijayan, deemed “a vibrant violinist” by Mark Swed of the Los Angeles Times is an established performer and collaborator on both coasts. Always an advocate for modern music, Shalini was a founding member and Principal Second Violin of Kristjan Jarvi’s Absolute Ensemble, having recorded several albums with them including 2001 Grammy nominee, Absolution. Shalini was also a founding member of the Lyris Quartet, one of Los Angeles’ most beloved chamber ensembles. With Lyris, she has performed regularly at Walt Disney Concert Hall on the Green Umbrella series, for Jacaranda Music and helped to found the Hear Now Music Festival in Venice, California, a festival dedicated to the music of living composers in Los Angeles. Shalini performed for over a decade with Southwest Chamber Music and can be heard on their Grammy nominated Complete Chamber Works of Carlos Chávez, Vol. 3. She has been a featured soloist with the Los Angeles Master Chorale in Chinary Ung’s Spiral XII and Tan Dun’s Water Passion, including performances at the Ravinia Festival. As a chamber musician, Shalini has collaborated with such luminaries as Billy Childs, Chinary Ung, Gabriela Ortiz, and Wadada Leo Smith on whose Ten Freedom Summers she was a soloist. Shalini joined acclaimed LA ensemble, Brightwork New Music in 2019 and also serves as the curator for Brightwork’s Tuesdays@Monkspace series, a home for contemporary music and performance in Los Angeles. As a teacher, she has been on the faculty of the Nirmita Composers Workshop in both Siem Reap and Bangkok and coaches composition students through the Impulse New Music Festival. Shalini received her B.M. and M.M. degrees from Manhattan School of Music as a student of Lucie Robert and Ariana Bronne. As a member of the New World Symphony in Miami Beach, Florida, Shalini served as concertmaster for Michael Tilson Thomas, John Adams, Reinbert de Leeuw and Oliver Knussen. She was also concertmaster for the world premiere performances and recording of Steven Mackey’s Tuck and Roll for RCA records in 2000. Shalini was a member of the Pacific Symphony Orchestra for ten seasons and also served as Principal Second Violin of Opera Pacific. She lives in Los Angeles with her son, husband and two dogs and spends her free time cooking Indian food and exploring the culinary landscape of Southern California. Check out more of her work at: https://brightworknewmusic.com/tuesdays-at-monk-space/ https://www.lyrisquartet.com/ Transcript Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It’s time to get on board the APEX Express. 00:01:03 Isabel Li You’re listening to Obbligato, which is a segment about the Asian American Pacific Islander community, specifically in classical music. 00:01:11 Isabel Li I’m your host, Isabel Li, and today joining me is Shalini Vijayan, who is a violinist, established performer, and always an advocate for modern music. 00:01:21 Isabel Li Shalini is also a founding member of the Lyris Quartet, one of Los Angeles most beloved chamber ensembles. With Lyris, she has performed regularly at Walt Disney Concert Hall on the Green Umbrella series for Jacaranda Music, and helped to found the Here and Now Music Festival in Venice, California, a festival dedicated to the music of living composers in Los Angeles. She joined acclaimed LA ensemble Brightwork New Music in 2019, and also serves as the curator for Brightwork’s Tuesdays at Monk Space series. She currently lives in Los Angeles with her son, husband and two dogs, and spends her free time cooking Indian food and exploring the culinary landscape of Southern California. 00:02:04 Isabel Li Well, Shalini, thank you so much for joining me in this conversation today. 00:02:09 Shalini Vijayan I’m so happy to be with you. 00:02:11 Isabel Li Awesome. I’d like to just get to know you and your story. How do you identify and what communities do you consider yourself a part of? 00:02:18 Shalini Vijayan I use the pronouns she, her, and I. Um, I identify as South Asian. I grew up in an Indian family. My parents immigrated to the US in the sixties to teach at medical school. And I grew up with a great deal of Indian culture. And I’ve spent a lot of time going back and forth to India from the time that I was very young. You know, it’s interesting because I feel like in LA, where I live and work specifically, there is so much overlap between all of our different musical communities. You know, I went to school in New York, and I feel like there I was much more, I’m very connected to the new music community in New York and felt really kind of entrenched in that at the time I was there. And after coming to LA, I realized that, um, there are a lot of musicians doing so many different things. That’s one of the things I love about Los Angeles, actually. And, you know, I’m definitely very, very rooted in the new music community in LA. And that was where I made my first sort of connections when I first moved to Los Angeles. But I also, you know, worked in an orchestra when I first came to LA. I played in the Pacific Symphony for almost ten seasons, and so I became a part of that community as well. And you know, as the years went on, I also became much more involved in the studio music community of LA studio musicians playing on movie scores, playing on television shows, records, what have you, Awards shows, all sorts of things. And these are all very distinct communities in LA in music. But I see a ton of overlap between all of them. There are so many incredibly versatile musicians in Los Angeles that people are able to really very easily move from one of these groups to the other and, you know, with a great deal of success. And I feel like it gives us so much variety in our lives as musicians in LA, you don’t feel like you’re ever just in one lane. You can really occupy all these different kinds of spaces. 00:04:23 Isabel Li Right, yeah. So you’re classically trained, from what I know, and you describe yourself as an advocate for modern music. So why modern music? 00:04:33 Shalini Vijayan That’s a great question. I have have had to answer this question quite a bit over the years, especially to non-musicians. And it’s always an interesting story for me. You know, as a violinist in particular, you know, we have such a storied history of repertoire and pedagogy, and there is such an incredible, um, library of music that we have access to from the very standard classical repertoire. And there is a great deal to be learned about the instrument and about music from playing all that repertoire. I think at some point when I was in high school, I started to become interested in more modern music. And actually I grew up in Davis in Northern California. My parents both taught at the university there, at the medical school and in Sacramento. Nearby there was a festival of modern American music that I think still goes on to this day at Cal State University, Sacramento. And it was really a great festival. And at that time, you know, they would bring professional artists, they’d have composers, they’d have commissions, all sorts of things. But at the time that I was like in high school, they also had a junior division to the festival, and I was asked to play a couple pieces in the Festival of, um, Modern Works, and I can’t remember at this time what the pieces were, but it left such a huge impression on me. And I think what I really took away from that experience as a kid is that in my studies as a violinist, I was always being asked to sort of live up to this history and this legacy of violin music and violin playing in Western classical music. And it’s a very high bar. And it’s, um, you know, of course, there’s so much great stuff there. But there was something so freeing about playing this music that had either never been played or not been recorded. So there was nothing to reference in terms of listening to a recording, um, and listening to how you, you know, quote, should be playing it that it made me feel, uh, you know, all this, this freedom to really interpret the music, how I felt, rather than feeling like I had to live up to a standard that had been set for me, you know, decades or centuries before. And I think that really something really clicked for me with that, that I wanted to have that kind of freedom when I, when I was playing. And so from there on out, um, you know, when I went to college and I really sought out opportunities in new music as much as I could. 00:07:00 Isabel Li So you were first exposed to new music when you were in high school. Did that influence your decision to become a musician at all? Or were you already set on becoming a musician and that was just part of what shaped your works over the years. 00:07:15 Shalini Vijayan I think by that time, I had already decided that I wanted to be a musician. I mean, as you know, so many of us as musicians and I think particularly string players, we decide so young because we start our instruments at such a young age and we start studying so early. Um, that I think by that time I, I had decided I wanted to do music, but this sort of opened another door for me that made me realize that it wasn’t just one path in music necessarily. I think it’s very easy as a, as a kid and as a violinist to think you admire these great soloists that you see and, you know, people like Perlman and, you know, Isaac Stern, who were the stars of the time when I was growing up. But, you know, you get to be in high school and you realize that hasn’t happened yet. It’s probably not going to happen. And so, you know, what’s then then what’s your path forward? How do you find a life in music if you’re not going to be one of these stars? And I think, you know, new music really opened up that opportunity for me. And yeah, made me look at things a little differently for sure. 00:08:18 Isabel Li And currently you’re in the contemporary classical music ensemble, Brightwork newmusic, and you curate the ensemble’s concert series, Tuesdays @ Monk Space. So how do you go about curating concerts with music by contemporary or living composers? What do you look for? 00:08:33 Shalini Vijayan Well, right now I’m really focused on trying to represent our new music community in LA at Monk Space, which is such, you know, we have such a diverse community of musicians, not just in the makeup of who the people are making the music or writing the music, but also in just the styles of music. And so I think I try to really represent a very diverse set of aesthetics in our season. Um, you know, everything from, you know, last season we had, uh, Niloufar Shiri, who is a traditional Persian kamancheh player, but she also she can play very in a very traditional way, but she also plays with a jazz pianist. And, you know, it does all this very improvisatory stuff. And, you know, then we would have other programs where everything is very much written out and very through, composed and you know, it’s been a very wide variety. And, you know, when I try to build the season, I try to make sure that it’s really balanced in terms of, you know, the different types of things you’ll be hearing because not every audience member is going to want to engage with every type of music. Um, or, you know, if we if we really stuck to one style and it was just in that language for the whole season, then I feel like we would, you know, alienate potential audience members. But with this, I feel like if we can bring people in for one concert and they’re really into it, then hopefully they’ll come to something else that is new and different for them and be exposed to something that they may really get into after that. So yeah, I think diversity and variety is really where I try to start from. 00:10:09 Isabel Li How does that engage the community? Have you observed audience reception to this type of new music when there are composers from all different types of backgrounds? 00:10:20 Shalini Vijayan Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that each composer and each artist brings their own community into the space, which and so that’s another. I feel like another strong reason why I try to make things very different from concert to concert. And, you know, we have some younger players who come in and bring in, you know, everyone from college students to, you know, their friends and family. And then, you know, really established composers. Like this season we have Bill Roper, who is kind of a legend in the music community in LA. Mult instrumentalist and composer who has been around for decades. And, you know, I think people will come out just because they want to see him and he’s such a draw. And, um, you know, I, I also would love to be able to incorporate more world music into the series. Like I said, we did do Niloufar concert, which I felt like I really hoped would like engage with the Persian community in LA as well. And a couple seasons ago we had Rajna Swaminathan, who is, I just think, an incredible artist. Um, she plays mridangam, which is a South Indian percussion instrument, but she also writes for Western instruments, uh, and herself. And we had her and a pianist and then Ganavya, who’s a vocalist who’s amazing. And, you know, Ganavya had her own following. So we had and Rajna has her own following. So we had a whole full audience that night of people who I had never seen in the space before. And that was for me. That’s a success because we’re bringing in new friends and new engagement. And, um, I was really excited about that. When I’m able to make those kinds of connections with new people, then that feels like a success to me. 00:12:05 Isabel Li Certainly. 00:12:06 Isabel Li Let’s hear one of Shalini’s performances. This is an excerpt from the 10th of William Kraft’s “Encounters”, a duologue for violin and marimba, performed here by Shalini Vijayan with Southwest Chamber Music. 00:12:20 [MUSIC – Encounters X: Duologue for Violin & Marimba] 00:17:18 Isabel Li An excerpt from William Kraft’s Encounters, the 10th of which is called Duologue for Violin and Marimba, that was performed by Shalini Vijayan, the violinist, with Southwest Chamber Music. 00:17:31 Isabel Li And Shalini is here with me in conversation today. We’ve been discussing contemporary music and her involvement in the new music scene, specifically in Los Angeles. 00:17:40 Isabel Li Music is all about community, drawing people together. So going back to how you describe yourself as an advocate for modern music, what are other ways that you have advocated for modern music besides curating the concert series? 00:17:53 Shalini Vijayan Well, over the years, um, you know, I feel like in all the ensembles I’ve been in, there’s been a real focus on commissioning composers and on performing works that have not been, uh, either performed or recorded before. And I feel like the only way to really get the music out there is to, obviously, is to play it and hopefully to be able to record it. We’ve worked especially with the lyrics quartet. We’ve worked with so many young composers in LA either just strictly, you know, contemporary classical composers or even film composers who, um, have works that they’d like to have recorded. And, you know, it’s been great to see a lot of those people go on to really amazing things and to be a part of their journey, uh, and to help support them. And, uh, the other thing that the quartet has been heavily involved in and now Bright Work Ensemble has been involved in as well, is the Here Now music festival, which has been going on in LA for well over a decade now. We were involved in the first, um, seasons of that festival. We’ve been one of the resident ensembles since the very beginning, and that festival is dedicated to the music of LA and Southern California composers. And, um, we have a call for scores every year that we, the four of us in the quartet, are part of the panel that reviews all the scores, along with a lot of our other colleagues, um, who are involved with the festival, and Hugh Levick, who is the artistic director of the festival and has we’ve worked side by side with him on this for a very long time. And that’s also been a fantastic avenue for, um, meeting new composers, hearing new works, having them performed. And the thing I always say about that festival every time it comes around, usually in the spring we have at least three concerts. It’s this incredible coming together of the new music community in Southern California, where all these great composers and all these amazing players come together and play these series of concerts, because there’s such a vast number of pieces that end up getting programmed. They can’t rely on just like one group or one or two groups to play them. So it really pulls in a lot of players from all over town. And I don’t know, it always just feels like a really fun time, a fun weekend for all of us to see each other and connect. And, um, and again, just build our community to be even stronger. 00:20:20 Isabel Li That’s really cool. How do you ignite interest in new music? Because this is a genre that I think is slightly underrepresented or just underrepresented in general in both the classical music community and the music industry as a whole. 00:20:35 Shalini Vijayan That’s a great question, and I think it’s a really important question for our whole industry and community. How do you engage people in new music and get them into a concert? Um, you know, I think one of the biggest hurdles for classical music in general, I will say, um, when I talk to people about why they don’t want to come to a concert or why they don’t want to, you know, let’s say, go see the LA Phil or, you know, wherever, whatever city they’re in, the major cultural music institution. I think there is a misconception generally that, oh, it’s, you know, I have to be dressed a certain way or I it’s going to be really stuffy. And, um, I, you know, I don’t know what to wear or I don’t know how I’m supposed to dress or how I’m supposed to act when I’m in the concert. Am I going to clap at the wrong time? You know, is it going to be really long? And, you know, and I and I get it, you know, I mean, I understand why that would be uncomfortable for a lot of people. And it’s not, um, it’s something that necessarily everyone has grown up with or that it’s been a part of their life. So I think it’s really up to us, as you know, when we’re on the side of programming concerts or putting together festivals or whatever, um, that we make things more accessible in terms of, um, concert length and interaction with audience. And, um, you know, I think it’s I know I’ve been told so many times and I really think it’s important that I think audiences love it when performers talk to them, when they talk about the music and, and set things up for a listener. I think that puts a kind of context on things that makes it so much easier for perhaps a new audience member, someone who’s never come to a concert before to feel at ease and feel like, okay, I know what I’m getting into. One of our, actually our former executive director at Brightwork, Sarah Wass, who was fantastic, and I was very happy to work with when I was just starting out programming, Monk Space had the idea of putting on the program the running time of the pieces, and I think even that is just something that, like, can prepare people for what they’re getting into when they’re about to listen to something new. And in terms of the music itself, I think that if someone, especially a younger person, doesn’t feel like they have any connection to Beethoven or Brahms or Mozart, they might actually feel more connected to someone who is their age or a little older. Someone who has had similar life experiences to them, or grown up in the same era as them, rather than someone who grew up, you know, in the seventeen hundreds. You know, there can be more of a real connection there, and that that person is writing this music and reflection of their life and their experiences. And, um, you know, again, I think that kind of context is important for a listener. And yeah. And then just lastly, I would say also, I feel like our space at Monk space is very inviting. It’s very low key. It’s, um, you know, it’s casual, it’s comfortable. Role. Um, we have, you know, snacks and a bar and, you know, everyone is very relaxed at intermission and has a good time. And I mean, for me, every time we host one of those concerts, I feel like I’m hosting a little party, you know? That’s what it feels like for me. And that’s what I want it to feel like for the audience as well. 00:23:52 Isabel Li That brings up a really good point in that new music can make classical music or a new classical music, contemporary music, more accessible to different audiences. And certainly I’ve definitely heard the complaint from people over the years about classical music being a little too uptight. Would you say that these are two different genres? 00:24:11 Shalini Vijayan I think that there is overlap, and I think, you know, for an ensemble like ours, like Brightwork, we have chosen to make our focus new music. So that’s our thing. That’s what we do. Um, and, uh, all of our concerts and our programming reflect that. Very rarely do we do anything that’s not considered a contemporary piece. Um, but, you know, if you do look at some of our major institutions, like I think the LA Phil and I think the San Francisco Symphony, um, earlier, you know, like in the nineties under MTT, really started to pave the way for incorporating contemporary music into a standard classical format. And, you know, I think that’s been very important. And I think it’s really changed the way that orchestras have programmed across the country. And there has been such a nurturing of contemporary music in larger spaces. Now that I think that kind of overlap has started to happen much more frequently. I think that in more conservative settings, sometimes there’s pushback against that. And even even, you know, in some of the places that I play, you know, sometimes with with the lyrics quartet, um, we are asked to just purely program standard classical repertoire, and we will occasionally throw in a little short piece, you know, just to try and put something in there, you know, something that’s very accessible. Um, and, uh, you know that we know the audience will like so that we can help them, you know, kind of get over that fear of connecting to a newer piece. And I, I think in some ways, that’s where the path forward lies, is that we have to integrate those things, you know, in order to keep kind of the old traditions of classical music alive. I think we have to keep the newer tradition alive as well, and find a way to put them in the same space. 00:26:00 Isabel Li I certainly agree with that. 00:26:01 Isabel Li Let’s hear more of Shalini’s work in new music. This is a performance of the first movement of Atlas Pumas by Gabriela Ortiz. Violinist Shalini Vijayan is joined by percussionist Lynn Vartan. 00:26:18 [MUSIC – Atlas Pumas, mvt 1 by Gabriela Ortiz] 00:29:21 Isabel Li The first movement of Gabriela Ortiz’s Atlas Pumas played here by violinist Shalini Vijian, and Lynn Vartan plays the marimba. 00:29:30 Isabel Li And Shalini is actually joining us here for a conversation about new music, performances, identity, and representation. 00:29:38 Isabel Li Many Asian American Pacific Islander artists in music have varying relationships between their art and their identity. I was wondering, to what extent do you feel that perhaps your South Asian identity intersects or influences the work that you do with music? 00:29:54 Shalini Vijayan Growing up, um, you know, I grew up in a in a university town in Northern California and, you know, a lot of highly educated and, you know, kids of professors and, you know, but still not the most terribly diverse place. And then going into classical music. And this was, you know, in the early nineties when I went to college, um, it still was not a particularly it was very much not a diverse place at all. And, um, there certainly were a lot of Asian students at, um, Manhattan School of Music where I did my my studies. But I would say it was a solid decade before I was ever in any sort of classical music situation where there was another South Asian musician. I very, very rarely met any South Asian musicians, and it wasn’t until I went to the New World Symphony in the early late nineties, early two thousand, and I was a musician there. I was a fellow in that program there for three years that I walked into the first rehearsal, and there were three other South Asian, I think, of Indian descent musicians in the orchestra, and I was absolutely blown away because I literally had not, um, other than here and there at some festivals, I had not met any other South Asian classical musicians. So it was really like that was the hallmark moment for me. It was a really big deal. And coming with my family, coming from India, you know, there is such a strong tradition of Indian classical music, of Carnatic music and Hindustani music. And, um, it’s such a long, long tradition. And, you know, the people who have studied it and lived with it are, you know, they study it their whole lives to be proficient in it. And it’s such an incredible, incredible art form and something that I admire so much. And I did as a kid. Take a few lessons here and there. I took some Carnatic singing lessons, um, and a little bit of tabla lessons when I was very young. Um, but I think somewhere in middle school or high school, I kind of realized that it was, for me at least, I wasn’t, um, able to put enough time into both because both of them, you know, playing the violin in a Western classical style and then studying Indian classical music require a tremendous amount of effort and a tremendous amount of study. And I at that point chose to go with Western classical music, because that’s what I’d been doing since I was five years old. But there has always kind of been this longing for me to be more connected to Indian classical music. Um, I’ll go back again to Rajna. When I presented Rajna Swaminathan on Monk Space a couple of years ago, it was a really meaningful thing for me, because that’s kind of what I’d always wanted to see was a joining together of that tradition, the Indian tradition with the Western tradition. And, um, I’m so happy that I’m starting to see that more and more with a lot of the artists that are coming up now. But at the time when I was young, it just it felt almost insurmountable that to to find a way to bring the two together. And, um, I remember very clearly as a kid listening to this, um, there was an album that Philip Glass did with Ravi Shankar, and I thought that was so cool at the time. And I used to listen to it over and over again because I just again, I was so amazed that these things could come together and in a, in a kind of successful way. Um, but yeah, there is, you know, there there’s a part of me that would still love to go back and explore that more that, that side of it. Um, and but I will say also, I’m very happy now to see a lot more South Asian faces when I, you know, go to concerts on stage and in the audience. And, you know, a lot of composers that I’ve worked with now, um, of South Asian descent, it’s been, you know, I’ve worked with Reena Esmail and Anuj Bhutani and Rajna and, um, there’s so many more, and I’m so glad to see how they’re all incorporating their connection to their culture to, to this, you know, Western kind of format of classical music. And they’re all doing it in different ways. And it’s it’s really amazing. 00:34:22 Isabel Li That’s fantastic. 00:34:24 Isabel Li I was wondering if you could maybe describe what this merging or combination of different styles entails. Do you think this makes it more accessible to audiences of two different cultures? 00:34:36 Shalini Vijayan For me, one example, before I started running the series at Tuesdays at Monk Space, Aron Kallay, who is our Bright Work artistic director, had asked me to come and do a solo show on Monk Space, which I did in November of 2019. 00:34:52 Shalini Vijayan And at the time, I wanted to commission a piece that did exactly that, that, that, um, involved some sort of Indian classical instrument or kind of the language of Indian classical music. And so I actually did reach out to Reena Esmail, and she wrote me a very cool piece called blaze that was for tabla and violin. Um, and I really had so much fun doing that. And Reena, Reena really has a very fluid way of writing for the violin, which she actually was a violinist, too. So she’s she’s really good at doing that. But being able to write for any melodic instrument or for the voice, which she does quite a bit as well, and incorporating sort of the tonality of Indian classical music, which obviously has its own scales and, um, has its own harmonic, harmonic world that is different from the Western world, um, but finds a way to translate that into the written note notation that we require as, uh, Western classical musicians. And, you know, I think that’s the biggest gap to bridge, is that in Indian classical music, nothing is notated. Everything is handed down in an oral tradition, um, over the generations. And for us, everything is notated. And in Indian classical music, you know, there’s much more improvisation. And now, of course, with modern classical music, there now is a lot more improvisation involved. But in our old standard tradition, obviously there isn’t. And in the way that we’re trained, mostly we’re not trained to be improvisers. And um, so it’s it was great. She has a great way of writing so that it kind of sounds like things are being tossed off and sounding sounds like they’re being improvised, but they are actually fully notated, um, which I really appreciated. 00:36:50 Isabel Li Yeah. 00:36:51 Isabel Li So your career has spanned orchestras, recording ensembles, chamber music. Having had so much experience in these types of performance, what does representation in classical music mean to you? 00:37:04 Shalini Vijayan Well, representation is is very important because we’re talking about a tradition that was built on white men from centuries ago, European white men. And and it’s again, it’s an incredible tradition and there’s so much great repertoire. But I’m going to circle back to what you were saying or what you asked me about connecting to audiences and, you know, connecting to audiences with new music. It’s I think people like to see themselves reflected in the art that they choose. They choose to consume. And, you know, whether that’s movies or television or music, I think that’s how you connect with your audience is by being a bit of a mirror. I think the only way that we can really continue to connect with a diverse audience is by having that type of diverse representation on our stages and on our recordings. And again, also not just the people, but the types of music, too. You know, musical tastes run wide, genres run wide as well. And it’s I think It’s good for all of us to be exposed to a lot of different kinds of music, to figure out what we connect with the most. And, um, yeah, the only way we can do that is by really, you know, opening our arms to a, a much wider variety of styles of music. And so I, you know, I mentioned improvisation, improvisation earlier. And I think that is something that’s now starting to happen so much more in modern classical music. And, you know, I think there’s something about the energy that a player has when they’re improvising that is maybe not something that an audience member could quantify verbally, but there’s a looseness and a freedom there that I think, you know, for a lot of audience members, they probably really can connect to. And, you know, that’s a lot of why people go and listen to jazz is because there’s so much freedom and there’s so much improvisation. I’ve been very lucky to be able to work with, um, Wadada Leo Smith, who’s a trumpet player and composer. I’ve worked with him for probably almost ten years now. And um, through Wadada, actually, I have learned to become much more comfortable with improvising on stage and not within a jazz language of any kind or any kind of harmonic structure necessarily, but within the language of his music, which is very unique and very open and very free and, um, but also has a really strong core in its connection to history. And, um, you know, he’s written a lot of amazing works about the civil rights movement and about a lot of, you know, important moments in history for our country. And, um, that’s been a real learning experience for me to connect with him in that, in that way and learn from him and learn to be more comfortable with improvisation. Because I think growing up, improvisation for me always meant jazz, and that was not a language I was comfortable in. And um, or even, you know, jazz or rock music or folk music or whatever, you know, it was just not something that came naturally to me as a kid to, I mean, I listened to all of it. I listened to everything when I was a kid, but I never played in any of those styles. And I think the older you get, the scarier it gets to start branching out in those ways. But, um, I think, uh, that’s been a an incredible, like, new branch of my life in the last decade has been working with Wadada. [MUSIC – “Dred Scott, 1857,” from Ten Freedom Summers, by Wadada Leo Smith] 00:42:23 Isabel Li An excerpt of Wadada Leo Smith’s music to give you a sense of the jazz influences in these types of contemporary new music pieces that also touch on pieces of history. This was an excerpt from his album, Ten Freedom Summers, which also consists of compositions based on pieces of American history. For example, what we just heard was from a piece called Dred Scott, 1857. 00:42:49 Isabel Li Now that I realize that we’ve been having a conversation about new music, I realize that, hmm, when does new music really start? So if you take a look at maybe music history, when does new music really become new music? 00:43:07 Shalini Vijayan I guess it depends on who you ask, probably. Um, it’s it’s pretty recent. You know, it has to be really legitimately pretty new. And, um, again, you know, if you ask an audience member, um, and I think of some of my friends or family who are maybe who are not musicians who come to concerts, and I’m always so interested in talking to them and hearing their opinions about things. Um, you know, they will listen to Bartok and say, oh, that sounds like new music to me. But, you know, Bartok, Bartok passed away a long time ago, and it’s, you know, and for me, that’s more like canon now. You know, that’s like now for me, part of the the standard repertoire. But there was a time when Bartok was new music. And I think for, you know, maybe the listeners who are more comfortable with the very diatonic, you know, world of Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart, then something like Bartok really does sound so modern for me. Boy, maybe around the time that minimalism started, you know, John Adams and Steve Reich, Terry Riley, Philip Glass, all of that for me feels like maybe that’s the older like the The edge of new music now even though that was that would be the eighties, probably seventies 80s, you know, but that we’re talking about like, you know, fifty years ago. So yeah, I mean, it’s not that new, but those are all still living composers. So maybe, maybe that’s part of what it is for me is that it’s the composers of our era, the composers who are alive, who we can communicate with and ask questions of. And, um, you know, at the very least, if you can’t talk to John Adams, you can talk to somebody who has worked directly with him and get their impressions of how something should be played, um, as opposed to composers who have been gone for hundreds of years. And you can’t have that level of communication with them. I think that, for me is what new music, new music is about. It’s about working with living composers and, um, having that type of interaction. 00:45:15 Isabel Li Yeah. So would the word or the phrase contemporary classical music, be a little oxymoronic in a sense? 00:45:26 Shalini Vijayan No, I don’t think so. I think it’s still part of the same tradition. Um, yeah. I really do think it is, because I think there is a lineage there. Um, for a lot of composers, not all of them, um, that I mean, I think particularly if you’re writing for, let’s say, an orchestra or a string quartet or sort of one of these very standard classical ensembles. Um, even if you’re writing in a very new language and you’re writing in a very different way, I think there is still a through line to the canon of classical music. I guess for me, new music and classical music are not mutually exclusive. I think they can be the same. So I don’t I don’t think they’re totally different. I think that there is a lot of a lot of overlap. 00:46:16 Isabel Li For sure, considering how new music fits into the classical music or the classical music industry as a whole. Have you noticed any sorts of shifts in the classical music industry in the past several decades in regards to diversity, equity, inclusion? And have you just noticed any changes? 00:46:35 Shalini Vijayan I have noticed some changes. I mean, I think that most organizations in this country are making an effort to be more inclusive in their programming now. And, um, you know, another another South Asian composer who I just think is fantastic is Nina Shekhar. And, um, she has had pieces played by the New York Phil for the last couple seasons. I mean, you know, so on on major, major stages, I feel like now I’m seeing more representation and that is definitely Encouraging and, um, you know, uh, same for Anuj and Rajna and Reena. They’ve all, you know, had their works done by major ensembles. And, um, I think I think there is definitely movement in that direction, for sure. I think it could always be more. I think also for women and women composers, women performers, I think that has also always been a struggle to find enough representation of women composers and you know, especially if like as I mentioned before, when you’re in a situation where an organization asks you to program a concert, like, let’s say, for our quartet and wants much more standard repertoire than it does limit you, you know, how because there isn’t much from the older canon. You know, there is. You know, there’s Fanny Mendelssohn and Clara Schumann and, um, you know, I think in the last five to ten years they’ve both been played a lot more, which is great. But, you know, I think, uh, there’s so many amazing female composers right now that I think are starting to get much more recognition. And I think that just needs to be more, more and more, um, but, uh, you know, that is why, again, like on those programs, sometimes we try to just sneak one modern piece in because it’s important for those voices to be heard as well. But yes, I do see some forward movement in that direction with, um, classical programming. And, you know, you just have to hope that the intent is always genuine in those situations. And I think, um, you know, I think that’s the most important thing. And giving a platform to those voices is really important. 00:48:59 Isabel Li How would you go about arts advocacy during this current time when, well, the arts are being defunded and devalued by our current administration and how everything is going on right now? 00:49:10 Shalini Vijayan Yeah, it’s really, really difficult right now. And, um, you know, I think a lot of arts organizations are losing a lot of government funding. Obviously, I know of a couple projects that lost their NEA funding because of DEI, and which is so disheartening. And, um, I think, you know, there’s going to be a lot of leaning on private donors to try and, uh, make up that difference or, you know, private foundations to make up the difference in funding, hopefully. And, um, uh, you know, it’s yeah, it’s scary. It’s a scary time. And I think, you know, even for private funding and, um, private donors, it’s, you know, everyone is feeling stressed and feeling concerned about our future right now, just as a country. and there’s so much uncertainty. And, um, but I think people who really rely on the arts for all the things that it can provide, you know, an escape and pleasure and, you know, stimulation of a different kind. And especially in a time like this, when you want to be able to get away from maybe what’s going on around you, you know, I’m hoping we can find a way to really come together and, um, kind of, you know, rally around each other and find a way to support each other. But, um, I think it is going to be hard for the next few years if we can’t find ways to replace that funding that so many people have lost. And I certainly don’t think that anyone wants to back away from the progress that’s been made with inclusion and representation, you know, just to get funding. So I know we have to be very creative with our path ahead and find a way to, to keep doing what we’re doing in this current environment. 00:51:07 Isabel Li Yeah, on a brighter note, I read about your work with Lyris Quartet earlier this year when you presented a concert with Melodia Mariposa called Altadena Strong with the Lyris Quartet, raising funds for those who have been affected by the LA fires. Can you talk a bit about the power of music? And we’re going to end on a stronger note here about the power of music in bringing communities together and accelerating community healing. 00:51:31 Shalini Vijayan Well, I have to say that concert was really a special one for us. You know, um, so many musicians were affected by the fires in LA. And, you know, I, I’ve lived in LA for over twenty years now, almost twenty five years and, um, certainly seen my share of wildfires and disasters, but this one hit so much more close to home than any of the other ones have. And, you know, I know at least twenty five people who lost their homes in between the Palisades and Altadena and Altadena in particular. When I moved to LA, it was a place where a lot of musicians were moving to because you could it was cheaper and you could get a lot of space, and it’s beautiful. And, you know, they really built a beautiful community there among all the musicians out there. And it’s just heartbreaking, um, to see how many of them have lost everything. And I have to say, Irina Voloshina, who is the woman who runs Melodia Mariposa, and just an amazing violinist and an amazing, wonderful, warm, generous person. You know, she started that series in her driveway during COVID as a way to just keep music going during the pandemic, and it really turned into something so great. And she’s, you know, got a whole organization with her now and puts on multiple concerts a year. And when she asked us if we would play that concert for the community in Altadena is, you know, there’s no question that we were going to do it. I mean, we absolutely jumped at the chance to support her and support the organization and that community. And people really came out for that concert and were so excited to be there and were so warm and, um, you know, and and she talked to the crowd and really connected with everybody on a very personal level, because she also lost her home in Altadena and, um, you know, it was it was a really meaningful show for all of us. And again, those are the moments where you realize that you can use this art to really connect with people that you may have never met before and show your your love for them, you know, through music, as corny as that may sound, but it’s true. 00:53:54 Isabel Li Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you so much, Shalini, for sharing your visions, your knowledge with new music and community building with us today. Thank you so much for being on Obbligato. 00:54:07 Shalini Vijayan Thank you so much for having me, Isabel. It was really a pleasure. 00:54:10 Isabel Li What a wonderful conversation that was with LA-based violinist Shalini Vijayan. If you go to kpfa.org, you can check out more of her work. I put the links to two of her ensembles, Brightwork New Music and Lyris Quartet up on kpfa.org. And thank you for listening to our conversation here on Obbligato on Apex Express. 00:54:32 Isabel Li We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. 00:54:42 Isabel Li APEX Express is produced by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, and Cheryl Truong. Tonight’s show was produced by Isabel Li. Thanks to the team at KPFA for their support. Have a great night. [OUTRO MUSIC] The post APEX Express – 11.13.25 – Obbligato with Violinist Shalini Vijayan appeared first on KPFA.