Lean Blog Interviews: Real-World Lean Leadership Conversations in Healthcare and Beyond

Thomas Cox and Andre DeMerchant join Mark to examine why Lean implementations so often fail to stick. Using a verbal A3, they argue that psychological safety is a precondition Lean can’t create on its own. The frame is Chris Argyris’s Model 1 (controlling, blame-oriented, closed) versus Model 2 (calm, curious, empathic), and why leaders default to Model 1 under pressure. Includes Andre’s Toyota origin story, the Mulally-Ford ”report red” example, and a candid look at how consultants choose clients.

Caring cultures are not a “soft” add-on to Lean—they are foundational to sustainable continuous improvement. In this episode, Mark Graban speaks with Caroline Greenlee and Chris Butterworth, co-authors of Why Care, about why psychological safety, respect for people, and wellbeing are essential for performance that lasts. The conversation explores how caring leadership enables people to speak up, learn from mistakes, and fully engage in problem solving. Drawing on research, real-world experience, and Shingo-aligned thinking, Caroline and Chris explain why thriving individuals are the starting point for thriving teams and organizations. This episode is a must-listen for leaders, Lean practitioners, and improvement professionals who want to move beyond tools and build cultures where people—and improvement—can truly flourish. They discuss why caring cultures are not a “soft” add-on to Lean, but a prerequisite for sustainable continuous improvement. The conversation explores how psychological safety, respect for people, and wellbeing shape leadership behavior, team dynamics, and organizational performance. Topics include: Why Lean fails when culture and wellbeing are ignored How psychological safety enables people to speak up and solve problems The role of leaders in creating respectful, high-performing cultures Connections between caring, trust, and long-term improvement results This episode is especially relevant for leaders, coaches, and practitioners who want Lean to last—without fear, blame, or burnout.

In this episode, Mark Graban speaks with Carlos Scholz, CEO of Catalysis, about what truly makes Lean healthcare improvement sustainable. Drawing on experience in manufacturing and healthcare, Carlos explains why humility, psychological safety, and leadership behaviors matter more than tools or events. The conversation explores how leaders can move beyond command-and-control habits, create environments where people feel safe to speak up, and build Lean management systems that develop people while improving performance. This episode is especially relevant for healthcare leaders navigating disruption, complexity, and change.

Episode blog post with video, transcript, and more My guest for Episode #535 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Gregg Stocker, a seasoned Lean practitioner, consultant, and author. Over the past 30+ years, Gregg has worked across industries, including oil and gas, energy services, manufacturing, and construction, guiding both independent operators and major corporations on their Lean journeys. He is the author of Profitable at Any Price: Lean Thinking for Safer, Cheaper, and More Responsible Oil and Gas Production and is revising his earlier book Avoiding the Corporate Death Spiral. In this conversation, Gregg shares his Lean origin story, which began with exposure to Dr. W. Edwards Deming's teachings in college and later expanded through hands-on work with Toyota. We discuss the importance of daily Kaizen, the influence of Deming's philosophy of profound knowledge, and why psychological safety and systems thinking are essential to effective Lean leadership. Gregg also reflects on his experiences helping organizations in high-risk industries such as oil and gas. He explains how Lean thinking can simultaneously drive improvements in safety, cost, and reliability -- showing that these are not trade-offs, but outcomes of a stronger system. Listeners will hear stories of transformation, lessons from Toyota, and practical insights on structured problem-solving, leadership behaviors, and building a culture where people feel safe speaking up. Whether you work in energy, healthcare, manufacturing, or any other sector, Gregg's insights are broadly applicable. This episode is a reminder that Lean isn't just about tools -- it's about leadership, systems thinking, and creating conditions for continuous improvement. Questions, Notes, and Highlights: How did you first get introduced to Lean and Deming? What did you learn from Toyota about shifting from TQM to daily Kaizen? How did senior leaders in your early company become engaged in Lean? What were your experiences attending Dr. Deming's four-day seminars? Which of Deming's principles do you wish leaders better understood today? How do systems thinking and psychology apply in high-risk industries like oil and gas? What are some Lean approaches to improving both safety and performance? What's the origin story behind your book Profitable at Any Price? How do oil and gas companies typically react to fluctuating prices, and how does Lean help? How has Lean adoption in oil and gas evolved over the past 15 years? When starting a Lean transformation, what should leaders do -- and avoid? How do you define better problem solving, beyond just tools and structure? What leadership behaviors help create psychological safety and encourage people to speak up? Can you tell us about your upcoming books and where your writing is headed next? This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

In this bonus episode of Lean Blog Interviews, Mark Graban is joined by William Harvey, AME 2025 Workshop Chair (and 2026 Conference Chair), to preview the AME Annual Conference coming up in St. Louis, October 6–9, 2025. Topics We Discuss ✅ Why AME is for all continuous improvement leaders—not just manufacturing✅ The 2025 conference theme: Gateway to the Future – AI and Beyond✅ How AME is blending AI and people integration into learning and networking✅ Four key workshop tracks, including coaching, TWI, AI, and process excellence✅ Mark’s own Deming Red Bead Game & Process Behavior Charts workshop Whether you’re in healthcare, services, or manufacturing, AME offers a unique chance to learn from practitioners, connect with peers, and gain new insights into operational and leadership excellence. 🔗 Links & Resources Conference details Workshop registration Special discount code for Lean Blog listeners: NP-MARKG25 We hope to see you in St. Louis!

My guest for Episode #532 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Anne Frewin, a seasoned Lean leader with over 12 years of improvement experience in healthcare, laboratories, and manufacturing. Updated with the correct audio Episode page with video, transcript, and more Anne's background in finance and healthcare administration provided her with a unique entry point into Lean -- first supporting improvement efforts through data, and then stepping fully into the role of change agent. She shares the story of how a persistent mentor who always asked "why" helped her shift from just reporting metrics to developing problem-solving thinking and leading transformation efforts herself. In this conversation, Anne and I explore how Lean principles, such as respect for people, effective idea systems, and a problem-solving culture, manifest in real-world settings. She explains why she prioritizes coaching people to become relentless problem solvers and how systems like visual management and simple idea boards, when supported with good questions, can lead to safer, more efficient work. We also discuss how Lean applies differently (but effectively) across industries, the balance between improvement and documentation, and how to avoid siloed thinking when solving cross-functional challenges--especially in healthcare. "A strong idea system is the first real show of respect for people--it tells the frontline we value their insight and want them to own the solution." Anne also shares her perspective on Lean, Six Sigma, and Lean Six Sigma, offering a practical framework for how these approaches can coexist while serving different purposes. Throughout the episode, we reflect on systems thinking, psychological safety, and the importance of learning through experimentation. Whether you're in healthcare, manufacturing, or any people-centric industry, Anne's passion for leadership development and continuous improvement offers valuable insights. Questions, Notes, and Highlights: How did you first get exposed to Lean, and why did it resonate with you? Looking back, did your mentor's persistent "why" questions help develop your thinking more than if he had been directive? How would you explain the concept of a Lean operating system to an executive unfamiliar with it? What's the difference between "respecting people" and "respect for people" in your view? Can you share an example of an effective idea system that truly engages frontline staff? How do you balance employee-generated ideas with the need for leadership support and coaching? What's your approach to helping people decide whether to use a rapid improvement event, an A3, or a PDSA cycle? What are the three questions you use to evaluate whether an idea is safe to try? How do you coach teams to iterate and learn from problems when working across functional silos? Can you share a healthcare example where process mapping revealed hidden breakdowns or assumptions? How do you handle improvement suggestions that require significant changes, like IT systems or facility layout? How do you view the relationship between safety, quality, delivery, and financial performance? What's your perspective on Lean vs. Six Sigma vs. Lean Six Sigma, based on your experience? How do you see variation reduction as part of Lean, not just Six Sigma? What was it like moving from healthcare into manufacturing? What was surprisingly transferable? Did you encounter documentation or quality systems in manufacturing that got in the way of improvement? How do you deal with the extremes--either lack of standardization or over-control through documentation? What reflections do you have about the human side of improvement--what helps people succeed in these systems? This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

In this bonus episode of Lean Blog Interviews, host Mark Graban talks with Jared Thatcher, founder of the Global Lean Summit, to preview the upcoming event taking place September 23–25, 2025 in Bloomington, Indiana. Jared shares the Summit’s origin story—from a virtual event launched during COVID lockdowns to a high-impact in-person gathering that brings together Lean leaders, practitioners, and learners from a wide range of industries. This year’s Summit includes:✅ A site visit and training day at Toyota Material Handling✅ A new healthcare track, co-hosted with Indiana University’s medical school✅ A foundational Kaizen facilitation workshop for hands-on learning✅ Free in-person access for university students✅ A 30-60-90 day virtual follow-up to help participants apply what they learned Notable speakers include Phil Wickler (GE Aerospace), Sam McPherson, Mohamed Saleh, Nick Katko, Hide Oba, and Mark Graban, among others. Whether you’re just starting your Lean journey or looking to deepen your capabilities, the Global Lean Summit is designed to foster meaningful connections, practical learning, and sustained improvement. 🌐 Learn more and register at GlobalLeanSummit.com💡 Subscribe & catch new episodes at LeanCast.org

In this episode of Lean Blog Interviews, Mark Graban is joined by Ken Segel, Co-Founder and Chief Relationship Officer at Value Capture, for a deep conversation about Lean healthcare transformation, safety, and leadership. Ken shares lessons from his non-traditional path into healthcare improvement, including his work with Paul O’Neill and the Pittsburgh Regional Health Initiative. They discuss why starting with safety—and aiming for zero harm—is such a powerful catalyst for learning, trust, and system-wide improvement. The conversation also explores what Ken calls a comprehensive operating system in healthcare, why a Lean management system alone isn’t enough, and how integrating work systems, improvement systems, and management systems creates sustainable results. Ken reflects on Shingo principles, transparency, and leadership behaviors that enable real improvement—not just Lean tools or events. This episode is especially relevant for healthcare leaders who believe safety, quality, and financial performance must—and can—coexist.