Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

How can we see others, and ourselves, with love when anger, fear, depression, or division clouds our vision? Today's episode of Learning How to See features an interview with Quaker elder Parker J. Palmer. Parker helps us explore how love can become a way of seeing, how we can navigate times of depression, and why listening to each other’s life stories may be our best antidote to polarization. Join us as Parker reflects on encounters that reshaped his assumptions about “the other,” sharing insights from decades of Quaker practice. Resources: Subscribe to Parker's Substack here. Learn more about the Center for Renewal and Courage here. Follow Parker on Facebook here. Find the transcript for this episode here. Connect with us: Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠

How do we soften our hearts to those whose values are in stark contrast to our own? Can we safely love those who have even gone so far as to harm us? On this episode of Learning How to See, Dr. Cassidy Hall, author of Queering Contemplation, poses these tough questions to our hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher. Together, they explore how we can respond with integrity when our deepest values are met with opposition. Through personal stories, Brian and Carmen model ways in which they’ve grappled with loving in the face of persecution, strained family dynamics, and systemic incongruities with their own values. Resources: Discover more about Dr. Cassidy Hall ⁠here. Find the transcript of this episode⁠ here.⁠ Connect with us: Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠ Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

It can feel easy to offer compassion to others. But, why is it so hard to extend that same tenderness to ourselves? In Season 9 of Learning How To See, we continue to learn how to see through the eyes of love. On this season premiere, author and storyteller Kaitlin Curtice joins our hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher to explore Indigenous wisdom, the Potawatomi language, and daily rituals of gratitude. Resources: Learn more about Kaitlin Curtice here. Pick up a copy of Kaitlin's latest book, Everything is a Story, here. Join Kaitlin's Substack, The Liminality Journal, here. The transcript for this episode can be found here. Connect with us: Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠

What would change if you could see with eyes of love—even in the face of cruelty, fear, and disagreement? In this episode, Brian McLaren and co-host Carmen Acevedo Butcher sit down with renowned spiritual leader, legal advocate, and activist Sister Simone Campbell for a deeply honest conversation about love, justice, and compassion. They explore how contemplative practice grounds fierce activism, why listening is an act of love, and what it means to see even your political opponents with empathy. From her role in passing the Affordable Care Act to launching the "Nuns on the Bus" movement, Sister Simone shares moving stories of courage, community, and the Spirit’s surprising guidance—inviting us all into a new way of seeing and being. Resources: You can find a transcript for this episode here. Find Sr Simone Campbell's book Hunger for Hope here.

How might your life change if you paused more often to unlearn what fear has taught you? In this episode, hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher are joined by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III. Together, they explore what it means to live with vision in times of struggle—when the path is unclear, but the call to truth and love remains strong. Drawing from his book Dancing in the Darkness, Dr. Moss reflects on the experience of being Black and faithful in America, and how reclaiming the radical tradition of love—rooted in justice and courage—can liberate both the oppressed and the oppressor. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠ Resources: The transcript for this episode can be ⁠found here⁠.

What happens to your own humanity when you choose to truly see the humanity in others? In this episode, Jesuit priest Father Rafael Garcia joins Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher to explore what it means to see through eyes of love—especially in a world that often teaches us to view immigrants, the incarcerated, and the marginalized with fear or indifference. Drawing from his work at the U.S.–Mexico border, his Cuban refugee roots, and stories of deep pastoral presence, Father Rafael shares how radical hospitality transforms both giver and receiver. Carmen reflects on her own awakening to shared humanity while serving in a women’s prison, paralleling Rafael’s shift from architectural comfort to spiritual solidarity. Together, they illuminate how true vision—grounded in Jesuit and Franciscan compassion—invites us not into pity, but into kinship and mutual transformation. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠ Resources: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

In this opening to Season 8, Learning How to See returns with understanding how to see with the eyes of love. On this season, Brian McLaren introduces his new co-host Dr. Carmen Acevedo Butcher—a scholar, translator, contemplative teacher, and birdwatching chocolate lover—and together, they launch the theme for this season: Seeing Through Eyes of Love. This episode weaves together personal storytelling, embodied spiritual practice, and reflection to explore how love can transform the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world. Your Practice for the Week: Once a day, notice something you’re seeing with judgment or indifference. Pause. Shift your gaze to see it with the eyes of love. Then try to “telescope out”: See yourself seeing with love. See others doing the same. Envision Divine Love witnessing it all. Connect with us: Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠ Resources & Mentions: The transcript for this episode can be found here. In this episode, Carmen referenced the following: Dorothee Sölle – Death by Bread Alone Howard Thurman – Mysticism and the Experience of Love Brother Lawrence – The Practice of the Presence of God Meister Eckhart – on the “eye within me” Brian referenced the following: Richard Rohr’s Cosmic Egg – a framework of nested stories: My Story, Our Story, The Story (This is located in his book, The Wisdom Pattern.) 1 Corinthians 13 – closing reading on the nature of love

How important is community in facing the climate crisis? What kinds of communities are helping you to live differently and find hope? In this episode, we’re learning to see nature through the eyes of a visionary. For this conversation, Brian McLaren is joined by Philip Clayton to discuss the urgent need for a shift in mindset, the transformative power of community, and the vital role of faith in building an ecological civilization. About the guest: Philip Clayton is a renowned scholar whose work spans philosophy, theology, and science, with a particular focus on ecotheology, exploring the intersection of climate science, ethics, religion, and social philosophy. Holding the Ingraham Chair at Claremont School of Theology and directing the PhD program in comparative theologies and philosophies, he has also taught at prestigious institutions like Yale, Williams College, and Harvard, publishing extensively with over two dozen books and 350 articles. Beyond academia, Clayton is the President of the Institute for Ecological Civilization (EcoCiv.org), working internationally to promote sustainable solutions, and also heads the Institute for the Postmodern Development of China, advocating for ecological civilization through various initiatives. When not immersed in scholarly pursuits, he enjoys cycling, refereeing soccer, and spending time outdoors with his family and dog. Resources: The transcript for this episode can be found here. Two of Brian's books have been referenced heavily this season. You can check them out at the following links, Life After Doom and The Galapagos Islands. To learn more about Philip, check out his website here. Find out more about musician April Stace here. Books mentioned during the interview: What is Ecological Civilization? by Philip Clayton and Andrew Schwartz The New Possible: Visions of Our World Beyond Crisis (Edited by Philip Clayton) Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson Eaarth by Bill McKibben Connect with us: Have a response to Brian's call to action at the end of this episode, or a question in general? Email us: podcasts@cac.org Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024.

What might it look like to live out a Franciscan vision of kinship in your daily life? In this episode, we’re learning to see nature through the eyes of a Franciscan. For this conversation, Brian McLaren is joined by Sr. Joan Brown and Michelle Dunne to explore the essence of Franciscan values and their relevance in today's world. They discuss the importance of community and kinship, translating faith into action, and the role of education and rituals in fostering a deeper connection with creation. This conversation underscores the need for collective action in addressing environmental challenges, the transformative power of prayer and contemplation, as well as confronting historical injustices and the call to embrace love and kinship in all aspects of life. About the guests: Michele Dunne OFS is a professed Secular Franciscan. Before coming to FAN, her career focused on the Middle East and U.S. foreign policy. From 2006 until 2021, she headed programs focused on peace, human rights, and democracy in the Middle East at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and the Atlantic Council. Before that, she served for nearly 20 years in the U.S. Department of State, including assignments in Jerusalem and Cairo. She holds a Ph.D. from Georgetown University and lives in Washington DC with her husband. Joan Brown is a Franciscan Sister from the Rochester, MN community, living and working in Albuquerque, New Mexico where she serves as the Executive Director of New Mexico Interfaith Power and Light (NM IPL). NM IPL is part of a national faith-based organization working to address climate justice. Originally from a small family farm in Kansas that still operates, her life has always revolved around love of and care for creation and social justice. Her BA from St. Mary College, Leavenworth, KS was in literature and journalism and she holds a master’s degree in Religion Philosophy and Cosmology from the California Institute of Integral Studies. Climate justice work has been a focus for decades and led her to participate with Franciscans International at UN COP meetings including Paris in 2015. She was one of twelve recipients of the 2015 Whitehouse Champions of Change award for faith leaders working on climate change. She has published articles and essays in national and local publications. Gardening, writing, baking (and sharing food), camping, hiking, community life, and contemplating and being with diverse kin in the natural world bring her joy, grounding and beauty. Resources: The transcript for this episode can be found here. Brian referenced two of his books, Life After Doom and The Galapagos Islands. Check out the Franciscan Justice Circles here. Check out Sr. Joan’s work with New Mexico Interfaith Power and Light, here. Check out the Franciscan Action Network (FAN) here. Subscribe to the FAN Newsletter here. Subscribe to the FAN Environmental Justice Newsletter here. Find out more about the Doctrine of Discovery here Find out more about musician April Stace here. Connect with us: Have a response to Brian's call to action at the end of this episode, or a question in general? Email us: podcasts@cac.org Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024.

What does it mean to grieve the crisis facing our planet? In this episode, we’re learning to see nature through the lens of a mystic. Brian McLaren sits down with Douglas E. Christie to discuss his work in the emerging field of contemplative studies, its relevance to our current ecological crisis, and the importance of acknowledging and processing ecological grief. Together, they explore the historical and contemporary significance of contemplative practices and underscore their role in confronting the "dark night of the world", helping us to foster a deeper connection with the Earth. About the guest: Douglas E. Christie, Ph.D. is Professor Emeritus of Theological Studies at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles. He is the author of The Word in The Desert: Scripture and the Quest for Holiness in Early Christian Monasticism, The Blue Sapphire of the Mind: Notes for a Contemplative Ecology, and The Insurmountable Darkness of Love: Mysticism, Loss, and the Common Life. He has been awarded fellowships from the Luce Foundation, the Lilly Foundation and the National Endowment for the Humanities. From 2013-2015 he served as Co-director of the Casa de la Mateada study abroad program in Córdoba, Argentina, a faith-based program rooted in the Jesuit vision of education for solidarity. He lives with his family in Los Angeles. Resources: The transcript for this episode can be found here. Brian referenced two of his books, Life After Doom and The Galapagos Islands. Douglas referenced his books: The Blue Sapphire of the Mind: Notes for a Contemplative Ecology, which you can find here. And, The Insurmountable Darkness of Love: Mysticism, Loss, and the Common Life, which you can find here. To learn more about Douglas, visit his website here. Find out more about musician April Stace here. Connect with us: Have a response to Brian's call to action at the end of this episode, or a question in general? Email us: podcasts@cac.org Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024.

How does nature inspire your sense of creativity? On this episode, we’re looking at nature through the artistic lens, with Brian McLaren and two gifted photographers, Christy Berghoef and Thomas Jay Oord. The conversation explores the ways in which their individual experiences and practices of photography have deepened their understanding and appreciation of the natural world, as well as the power of photography to inspire a deeper connection to the earth. About the guests: Dr. Christy Berghoef is a civil dialogue consultant, singer/songwriter, author, speaker, mother of four and church planting partner with her husband Bryan in the United Church of Christ. Much of her work and writing has centered around the intersection of faith & politics and nature & the human condition. Thomas Jay Oord, Ph.D. is a theologian, philosopher, and scholar of multi-disciplinary studies. Oord directs the Center for Open and Relational Theology and doctoral students at Northwind Theological Seminary. He is an award-winning author and has written or edited more than thirty books. A gifted speaker, Oord lectures at universities, conferences, churches, and institutions. He is known for his contributions to research on love, science and religion, open and relational theology, the problem of suffering, and advocacy for the full inclusion of queer people. Resources: The transcript for this episode can be found here. Brian referenced two of his books, Life After Doom and The Galapagos Islands. Christy referenced her Substack, you can check that out here. She also posts regularly on her Instagram account. Thomas referenced his website, you can check that out here. Additionally, we wanted to link you to the Center for Open and Relational Theology here. Find out more about musician April Stace here. Connect with us: Have a response to Brian's call to action at the end of this episode, or a question in general? You can contact via two methods and we may feature your question on a listener questions episode later in the season. Email us: podcasts@cac.org Send us a voicemail: cac.org/voicemail We'll be accepting questions for our Listener Questions episode until November 20th, 2024.