Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

My friend and mentor Robert A. Rees (see his Wiki in show notes for complete bio), age 90, who loved and supported his gay/lesbian members while serving as a singles ward bishop in Los Angeles from 1986-1992, joins us talk about his new book called “Imagining and Reimaging the Restoration”. Bob talks about how Joseph Smith creative mind allowed him to imagine the impossible leading to the first vision and subsequent revelations—and how we should continue to use his example to imagine and reimagine what is possible for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Super powerful imagery. Bob also talks about: Why he is a “Matthew 25 Latter-day Saint and Christian” Why is heart is broken for our LGBTQ friends Why he stays in the Church Bob (along with Carol Lynn Pearson, Greg Prince, William Bradshaw, and others) are some of the earliest and most impactful LGBTQ allies. Their brave work and helped so many of our LGBTQ friends and has given new allies (like me) vision to join their LGBTQ ally discipleship. Thank you, Bob, for all your many contributions over many decades. You are a treasure to our community and beyond. Honored to have you on the podcast. You also give vision of what is possible at age 90! Links: Bob’s new book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/158958824X Bob’s Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees

Our son Jake Ostler (co-founder International Protection Alliance, master’s degree in social work, certificate in anti-human trafficking, LCSW, working with sexual violence survivors worldwide, expert speaker on this subject) joins us talk about online safety for youth/teenagers/young adults. In this episode (for parents/anyone with responsibility for younger people) Jake talks about: Creating a safe environment in the home with open discussion about online safety/sextortion, and other online threats kids face How the bad guys connect with youth, gain their trust—with the goal of extorting teens for money and nude images How the bad guys isolate the youth for repeated financial gain—often causing the victim to be hopeless and consider suicide Parents and law enforcements roles before and after sextortion occurs This is a powerful episode on a critically important subject. I encourage parents, local religious/civic leaders, and concerned citizens to get more educated on topic by listening to this episode and sharing it with others. You may help save a life. Thank you Jake for your much needed work in our world. Honored to have you on the podcast. Mom and I love you and are proud of you! Links: NCMEC Education for parents and teens: https://www.missingkids.org/theissues/sextortion NCMEC Take it Down: https://takeitdown.ncmec.org/ NCMEC “No Escape Room" Sextortion Experience: https://noescaperoom.org/ International Protection Alliance Web Site: protectall.org International Protection Alliance Venmo: @protect_all Jake’s email to request more information or invite a trainer: jacob@protectall.org International Protection Alliance Instagram: @intl.protect.all Facebook: www.facebook.com/ipa.protectall Jake’s Utah Clinical Practice: healingandhopeutah.com Jake’s LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-ostler-492716116 Jake’s earlier episode (792): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-792-jacob-ostler-lcsw-therapist-founder-international/id1347971725?i=1000677732364

My friend Hunter Knott (UVU grad in computer science, RM) joins us to share his story growing up and starting to hear stuff about gay people (during his high school years), going on a mission (at the start of COVID, getting reassigned), and then after his mission starting to consider “he might not be straight”. Hunter talks about starting to come to terms with his sexual orientation in 2022 with a powerful journey entrée—the shock he felt—and the answer of comfort. Hunter talks about enrolling in the UVU LGBT Institute class and how helpful/spiritually uplifting it is to connect with other LGBTQ members walking this road. Hunter frames this class as the “restoration of His LGBTQ people”. Hunter talks about coming out to his parents (great experience) and his family—including his parents attending Gather. Hunter also talks about the parallels between black Latter-day Saints before 1978 and the current plight of LGBTQ members—super insightful. Hunter talks about dating women and not being able to make that work—and then dating men including his first kiss and involving his family in his dating. Hunter talks about his current steady boyfriend Will and the love/peace he is finding in his life and hopes for their future together—including feeling “called” to continue to attend church as a same-sex married couple. Thank you Hunter for being on the podcast. You are a bright, articulate, faithful, and brave man—walking a difficult road with integrity, courage, and conviction. You are a good man. You give me hope. I encourage everyone to listen/share Hunter’s podcast. Links: Facebook: facebook.com/hunter.knott.2025 Instagram: @hunter_p_knott/

OsPaZu, a self-taught author from Chile, shares his powerful journey of faith, same-sex attraction, and returning to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after more than 20 years away. In this moving conversation, OsPaZu talks about serving a mission in Argentina, struggling to find his place in the Church, and eventually stepping away for over two decades. Through difficult experiences, personal challenges, and moments of deep spiritual searching, he came to discover that Jesus Christ had never stopped loving him. Today, OsPaZu is an active member of the Church, serves as a Sunday School teacher, and openly shares his experience to help others feel less alone. He emphasizes that every person’s journey is different, but that those who experience same-sex attraction face real challenges and experiences, and that there is hope, belonging, and peace through Jesus Christ. OsPaZu also discusses his books, “Just As I Am, I Returned to Christ” (English) and “Tal Como Soy, Regresé a Cristo” (Spanish), heartfelt memoirs written from personal experience—not as perfect literary works, but as honest stories of faith, struggle, repentance, service, and hope. This is a powerful conversation about vulnerability, discipleship, and discovering that Christ never leaves us, even when we feel far from Him. Links: Book available on Amazon in paperback and Kindle e-book format Instagram: @OsPaZu Email: ospazu2026@outlook.com

My friend Jeanette Griggs (mid 40’s, engaged to her future wife, decades of faithful service) joins us to bravely share her story about her long road to understand and accept her sexual orientation. Jeanette writes about this in her new book named: “Be True: From Orthodoxy to Authenticity—The Journey Wasn’t Straight” Jeanette shares about growing up in Idaho where everyone was a Church member and anything said about gay/lesbian people was around the “addiction/heinous” worldview. Jeanette talks about getting new perspective in college but then turning to church teachings/talks/actions with more devotion than ever because of her deep-seated conclusion that she was broken. Jeanette talks about later learning this was religious scrupulosity—and that she is not broken. Jeanette talks about falling in love with a woman and how that relationship became a complicated decade of her life because of the Church Education System, the lack of space for LGBTQ members within the Church, and her efforts to reconcile her lifelong faith with reality. She talks about caring for that woman through a terminal illness and mourning her passing. Jeanette concludes with finding her fiancée and the joy, health of the relationship, and the peace she has in her life now. Jeanette’s book includes journal entries and letters to her younger self—super powerful—as she takes us into the complex/painful/difficult road she walked. Thank you Jeanette’s for writing this book and being on the podcast. You are a good soul. I invite everyone to read/share her book. Jeanette’s book at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GP1V9F8S Jeanett’s Facebook: jeanette.griggs.5 Jeanett’s Instagram @grigjean

My friend Amy Thelin (who grew up in Virginia, served in Tahiti Papeete Mission, taught at the Missionary Training Center, and graduated from Brigham Young University) joins us to share her story. Amy reflects on the deeply spiritual experiences that led her to become active in the Church and serve a mission, motivated by her desire to help others feel the love of Christ. Amy also talks about returning home from her mission, transferring to BYU, earning a degree in Human Development, and later teaching at the MTC. She then shares what it was like to finally “take her sexuality off the shelf” and begin honestly addressing it after years of keeping herself busy to avoid it. Through prayer, scripture study, temple attendance, and personal revelation, Amy came to feel peace about her path forward—including the feeling that “dating girls is good for you.” She talks about falling in love with Melanie and the excitement surrounding their upcoming wedding in June 2026. Amy also discusses navigating these experiences while attending BYU, including both meaningful and difficult moments, as well as the grief she feels in not being able to fully participate in the Church. Amy and Melanie share their hope of finding ward leaders and church communities where they can feel loved, accepted, spiritually safe, and connected to Jesus Christ—a simple hope to “just be OK to be here.” Thank you, Amy, for being on the podcast and for the many lives you have blessed and will continue to bless. I hope for better days ahead for queer members of the Church—days where they can feel loved, accepted, needed, and valued. You are awesome, and you have a beautiful life ahead of you. Links:

My friend Chad Call (late 30s, gay, former business/event executive, bridge builder) joins us to share his story. Chad talks about growing up in Kaysville Utah, serving a mission, being active in his YSA Ward, stepping away from the Church, coming out as gay and making his way forward. Chad talks about his supportive parents (Lisa and Jeff—Jeff was my missionary companion in England) and all they are doing to keep their family together including being on the front row of the Utah Pride Parade. This is a beautiful family love story—and an example on how to keep family relationship strong and healthy—even with people on different paths and different beliefs. Chad then talks about the Utah Pride Center—what the organization does—and how we can support them. Chad helped me better understand all the good that Utah Pride Center has done in our community and continued need role they provide. Please consider donating to Utah Pride Center (see show notes) and/or attending Utah Pride on June 6-7, 2026. Thank you Chad for being on the podcast. You are a good man and doing life-saving work in our community. Links: Utah Pride Donation: https://utahpridecenter.org/donate