Listen with Love

In a second installment on scriptural foundations for spiritual direction, Mary and Suhail sit with a post-resurrection story in Luke 24 as a lens for how people experience God in real life.They notice how Jesus comes alongside the disciples with patience and intention—joining their journey and conversation, listening, asking questions, and letting things unfold before offering clarity or instruction.And then there’s the strange, tender theme of recognition—how God can be present and still unrecognized, sometimes in ways that feel hidden or withheld. Even when people feel they’ve moved “away” or are considered to be in the “wrong” direction, they are still accompanied. “God does not know how to be absent,” meets and loves us wherever we are, and it often takes time to recognize the presence of the Risen Lord already there.The conversation ends with a brief discussion of lectio divina and how this practice shapes the kind of attentiveness that lies at the heart of spiritual direction.SHOW NOTESTraditions* Jesuit — Refers to members and the spirituality of the Society of Jesus, a Catholic religious order founded in the 16th century by St. Ignatius of Loyola. The Spiritual Exercises grew out of this tradition.* Ignatian Spirituality* Office of Ignatian Spirituality* Benedictine — Refers to the monastic tradition and spirituality shaped by St. Benedict of Nursia in the 6th century. The Order of St. Benedict (O.S.B.) and the Rule of St. Benedict grew out of this tradition, emphasizing stability, prayer, work, and attentiveness to God in the ordinary rhythms of life.* Communio Internationalis Benedictinarum (CIB)* OSB DOG ORGPeople* St. Ignatius of Loyola — Founder of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits); developed a spirituality centred on discernment, attentiveness to inner movements, and learning to notice God’s presence in all things.* St. Augustine of Hippo— A 4th–5th century Christian theologian and bishop whose writings (like “Confessions” and “The City of God”) deeply shaped Western Christianity. Known for his reflections on grace, desire, and the restless human heart, he emphasized that God is the source of true rest and that human beings are drawn toward God even in their wandering.References* Spiritual Desolation — In Ignatian spirituality, an interior spiritual state characterized by darkness and disturbance of soul, disquiet, and ultimately a lack of faith, hope, and love in relationship to one’s experience of God.* Lectio Divina — A Benedictine practice of praying with scripture through slow, attentive reading, reflection, prayer, and contemplation, with openness to what God may be communicating personally here and now through the text.* “God meets us where we are.” — A summary expression rooted in Ignatian spirituality, especially the approach of St. Ignatius of Loyola, which emphasizes that God is encountered in the concrete realities of a person’s lived experience. It reflects the conviction that discernment begins not by escaping one’s present state, but by noticing how God is already present and active within it.Quotes* “God does not know how to be absent. The fact that most of us experience throughout most of our lives a sense of absence or distance from God is the great illusion that we are caught up in; it is the human condition. The sense of separation from God is real, but the meeting of stillness reveals that this perceived separation does not have the last word.” — Martin Laird, Into the Silent Land: A Guide to the Christian Practice of Contemplation (2006)* “He was seen but wasn’t recognized. They were walking along dead with Christ alive.” — St. Augustine of Hippo, Sermon 235.2-3.5* “Being heard is so close to being loved that for the average person they are almost indistinguishable.” — David W. Augsburger, Caring Enough to Hear and Be Heard (1982) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit listenwithlove.substack.com

Further exploring what a “directee” is, Mary and Suhail begin with an incredible story from prison chaplaincy, leading to a reflection on tears as both a feature of spiritual direction and a thread within the Christian spiritual tradition.The heart of the episode considers what allows someone to enter into and sustain spiritual direction over the long haul. Mary and Suhail highlight dispositions such as commitment, trust, solitary prayer, self-awareness, humility, vulnerability, and patience—all grounded in a willingness to place one’s life consciously before God. Along the way, they share some of their own vulnerable experiences in spiritual direction.The conversation concludes with reflections on the wide diversity of those who come to direction, and how God often draws particular directees to particular directors. Mary and Suhail also share about their sense of a “vocation within a vocation”—directees with whom they experience a unique sense of joy, awe, and purpose.SHOW NOTESAnonymity* At times, we share anecdotes about our directees. Anytime we do so, in keeping with typical ethical practice in spiritual direction, we keep their identity confidential and modify personal details. The directees to which we allude would likely not even realize the anecdotes are about them.Quotes* “There are only two major paths by which the human soul comes to God: the path of great love, and the one of great suffering. Both finally come down to great suffering—because if we love anything greatly, we will eventually suffer for it.” — Richard Rohr, Daily Meditation: Life Coming to a Focus (Center for Action and Contemplation)* “If someone wants to make any progress in the service of God, he must exercise himself in obedience to his spiritual father and in the renunciation of his own will.” — St. Basil of Caesarea, Long Rules (4th century)* “Open your heart to your spiritual father with all sincerity and fidelity, manifesting to him faithfully the state of your soul.” — St. Francis de Sales, Introduction to the Devout Life (1609)References* Tears — In the 4th - 5th century desert tradition, figures like Evagrius Ponticus and John Cassian portray “tears of compunction” as those that arise from a contrite heart—sorrow for sin that turns the person toward God. This notion develops into the “gift of tears” in the Eastern and medieval traditions (e.g., John Climacus and Symeon the New Theologian), where tears are received as grace: an overflow of love, longing, and repentance. In the 16th century, St. Ignatius of Loyola featured tears as a form of spiritual consolation in his Spiritual Exercises (Rules for Discernment, no. 316) when a person is moved by love from or for God.* Liturgy of the Hours and Lectio Divina — The liturgy of the hours (shaped in early monastic life, especially by St. Benedict of Nursia in the 6th century) is the Church’s daily rhythm of praying the Psalms at set times, sanctifying the hours of the day. Lectio divina developed similarly in the monastic tradition and is a slow, prayerful reading of scripture moving from reading to meditation, prayer, and contemplation.* Vulnerability — from the Latin vulnerare, meaning “to wound,” which is also the root of vulnus (“wound”). The original sense, carried into medieval Latin (vulnerabilis), referred to something “able to be wounded” or “open to injury.” The word enters English first through this sense of exposure to harm in a physical or military context, and later extends metaphorically to emotional and relational openness.Books* Praying Our Experiences: A Guide for Personal Prayer — Joseph Schmidt (1985)* The Way of Spiritual Direction — Francis Kelly Nemeck and Marie Theresa Coombs (1985) This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit listenwithlove.substack.com

Suhail and Mary explore what it means to be a spiritual director and the qualities that shape who directors are. They discuss the importance of training—highlighting specific competencies relative to offering spiritual direction—along with intentional, ongoing formation, and the value of being people who are sought and live lives of discernment.They also share their personal definitions and images of spiritual directors, reflecting on how these ideas resonate as they’ve gained experience. The episode concludes with reflections on how “directive” spiritual directors are, including personal stories that illustrate how directors navigate this dynamic in practice.SHOW NOTESAnonymity* At times, we share anecdotes about our directees. Anytime we do so, in keeping with typical ethical practice in spiritual direction, we keep their identity confidential and modify personal details. The directees to which we allude would likely not even realize the anecdotes are about them.Books* The Critical Journey: Stages in the Life of Faith — Janet O. Hagberg and Robert A. Guelich (1981)* Spiritual Direction: A Practical Introduction — Sue Pickering (2008)Quotes* “In discerning which director to choose, it is important to consider the necessary qualifications for this ministry: personal experience of God, competency in ascetical-mystical theology, ability to discern, etc.” — Francis Kelly Nemeck and Marie Theresa Coombs, The Way of Spiritual Direction (1985)* “A spiritual person is considered an abba or amma inasmuch as God prompts a directee to seek him/her out for spiritual direction. One is a spiritual father or mother to the degree that one is freely chosen, under the inspiration of the Spirit, by another as his/her spiritual guide. One is abba or amma to the extent that the directee is willing to become a child: that is, willing to submit to God through another in openness, trust, and simplicity.” — Francis Kelly Nemeck and Marie Theresa Coombs, The Way of Spiritual Direction (1985)* “[Directors] may be moved interiorly to make an unpleasant observation, to raise a thorny question, or even to use direct confrontation.” — Francis Kelly Nemeck and Marie Theresa Coombs, The Way of Spiritual Direction (1985)* “A ‘spiritual director’ provides a non-anxious, unhurried, and confidential space for a “directee” to share about their experience of and relationship with God. A director doesn’t tell you what to do or try to “solve” things for you. Rather, the director’s main role is offering compassionate listening without agenda or judgment, and asking gentle yet precise questions that help a “directee” pay attention to and respond more fully to God. In other words, a spiritual director helps direct a person’s attention to God as opposed to giving them directions.” — Suhail’s initial definition, which, in part, he now finds anemic!* “Spiritual direction could be defined as taking place when one person (the director) prayerfully supports and encourages another person (the directee) to attend and respond to God. As a fellow pilgrim, the spiritual director accompanies the directee on this journey of faith. The real ‘director’ is God the Holy Spirit, who initiates and inspires the directee’s deepening relationship with the Trinity, with his or her own self, with other people, and with the realities of life in the global village of the twenty-first-century.” — Sue Pickering, Spiritual Direction: A Practical Introduction (2008)Programs* School of Spiritual Direction — Suhail teaches in this training program, typically offering cohorts in the fall.Formation* Scrupulosity — a form of religious or moral anxiety marked by persistent doubt about one’s actions, intentions, or spiritual state. The term comes from the Catholic spiritual tradition and names an overactive or troubled conscience. It often involves treating ordinary or minor matters as serious sins, leading to cycles of fear, self-examination, and a persistent need for reassurance.References* The Sheep Know the Shepherd’s Voice — John 10:3–5, 10:27* The Road to Emmaus — Luke 24:13–35 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit listenwithlove.substack.com

Following their preceding discussion on suspicions and distinctives, Suhail and Mary turn their attention to defining what spiritual direction actually is. They reference several classic and influential definitions from Margaret Guenther, Thomas Merton, William A. Barry, William J. Connolly, Francis Kelly Nemeck and Marie Theresa Coombs. They also share their own definitions, explore a Jesuit-inspired framework for what happens in spiritual direction, and conclude with the idea that everyone has a God-given spiritual direction.SHOW NOTESBooks* Holy Listening: The Art of Spiritual Direction — Margaret Guenther (1992)* The Seven Storey Mountain — Thomas Merton (1948)* Spiritual Direction and Meditation — Thomas Merton (1957)* The Practice of Spiritual Direction — William A. Barry, SJ and William J. Connolly, SJ (1982)* The Discernment of Spirits: An Ignatian Guide for Everyday Living — Timothy M. Gallagher (2005)* The Way of Spiritual Direction — Francis Kelly Nemeck and Marie Theresa Coombs (1985)References* Moses and the Burning Bush — Exodus 3* The Transfiguration — Mark 9:2–13* “Being filled with the fullness of God” — Ephesians 3:19; describes the journey and goal of union, theosis, divinization, etc., in the Christian tradition* Awareness, Understanding, Response — a framework for the discernment of spirits featured in Gallagher’s The Discernment of Spirits* Everyone was shining — This moment is narrated in Merton’s Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander (1965)Quotes* “Spiritual direction is not problem-solving, nor is it therapy; its intention is not to cure but to accompany.” — Margaret Guenther, Holy Listening (1992)* “And then everything inside me began to sing […]” — Thomas Merton, The Seven Storey Mountain (1948)* “The whole purpose of spiritual direction is to penetrate beneath the surface of a man’s life and to bring out his inmost truth, which is what we call the likeness of Christ in his soul.” — Thomas Merton, Spiritual Direction and Meditation (1960)* “Spiritual direction is help given by one Christian to another which enables the person to pay attention to God’s personal communication to him or her, to respond to this personally communicating God, to grow in intimacy with this God, and to live out the consequences of that relationship.” — William A. Barry, SJ and William J. Connolly, SJ, The Practice of Spiritual Direction (1982)* “It strikes me that it is not wise to treat lightly what most generations of Christians have agreed is essential.” — Eugene H. Peterson, “On Finding a Spiritual Director” (article, first published 1983)* “The world is charged with the grandeur of God.” — Gerard Manley Hopkins, “God’s Grandeur” (poem, first published 1877)* “Spiritual direction is the gift, the charism, the ministry of guiding a person in and through his/her [spiritual direction] in the Lord. [It is] A unique participation in another’s spiritual regeneration, deification, transformation. Spiritual direction is a God-willed contribution of one person to another’s process of spiritualization […], sanctification […]. Spiritual direction deals with the interior life of directees: their life in God, and in him their life with all creation. Direction [seeks] to awaken directees to a consciousness of the path along which God is leading them [so that] they can in turn more voluntarily cooperate with God as he draws them through the passages of life.” — Francis Kelly Nemeck and Marie Theresa Coombs, The Way of Spiritual Direction (1985)Programs* Apprenticeship in Spiritual Direction — A spiritual direction formation program from the Order of the Common Life featuring spiritual theology, praxis, mentorship, and intended for the local church. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit listenwithlove.substack.com

Suhail reflects on his first encounters with spiritual direction—how it seemed to “want” him, resonating deeply with who he was and awakening an unfamiliar joy and desire. Together, Suhail and Mary explore how spiritual direction showed up within their respective Protestant and Catholic upbringings, how they discerned their vocation as spiritual directors, and were invited into the work of training others in this ministry.SHOW NOTESPlaces* North End — A historic and diverse Winnipeg neighbourhood marked by both economic inequality and deep community resilience, shaped by immigration, Indigenous presence, and strong networks of mutual care.Traditions* Jesuit — Refers to members and the spirituality of the Society of Jesus, a Catholic religious order founded in the 16th century by St. Ignatius of Loyola.Formation* Order of the Common Life — A modern, ecumenical religious order offering monastic formation, spiritual direction training, and church formation.* Supervision / Supervisor — The reflective, regular practice of an experienced spiritual director (a “supervisor”) supporting another director in their ongoing formation and skill in offering spiritual direction.* Suhail’s practice — Offering spiritual direction, spiritual direction training, etc.Programs* School of Mercy and Justice — A formation program (founded and directed by Suhail when he worked in the North End) that offers spiritual formation for those actively engaged in mercy and justice work.* School of Spiritual Direction / Sustainable Faith — A two-year spiritual direction training offered through Sustainable Faith, which also offers various other trainings.Books* The Listener — Taylor Caldwell (1987)People* Sandra Stewart* David Walsh* Sister Maureen Conroy This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit listenwithlove.substack.com

Recorded at St. Benedict’s Monastery in Winnipeg and hosted by good friends Suhail Stephen and Mary Coswin, OSB—both seasoned spiritual directors and teachers of spiritual direction—Listen with Love explores the ministry of spiritual direction within the Christian tradition.With personal stories and meaningful (often humorous) dialogue, the podcast aims to deepen understanding about spiritual direction, encourage the vocation of spiritual directors, and reflect how spiritual direction feels — all with a view to seeing individuals, communities, and the Church flourish. Season One has 12 episodes, with each episode releasing every two weeks. Reflections and conversations live on our Substack. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit listenwithlove.substack.com