Litigation Radio

Shakespeare and law school might not be as far apart as you thought. Guest Len Niehoff is a professor of law at the University of Michigan Law School and the author of the recent book Meeting Shakespeare at the Bar: Reading the Bard Through the Lens of the Law, a book written for both lawyers and non-lawyers offering practical insights into how Shakespeare’s works illuminate the questions of law, ethics, and advocacy. As an innovative professor and a lifelong fan of the Bard, Niehoff began studying, and encouraging students to study, Shakespeare’s interest in the rule of law, what puts the rule of law at risk, personal responsibility, and how law can be twisted into the unlawful. “It was kind of a natural transition to turn to Shakespeare,” he says. Indeed, Measure for Measure and The Merchant of Venice have trials at their heart. But Niehoff and his students look at how the law works it into other plays, such as Julius Caesar, MacBeth and Hamlet. Now imagine a group of lawyers meeting up with Shakespeare one evening at a local bar, sharing war stories, funny moments, and issues of ethics, and morality and the law. That’s the book. Niehoff’s fascinating examination of Shakespeare’s work and the law may have you thinking about the human condition differently. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources Mentioned:  “Meeting Shakespeare at the Bar: Reading the Bard Through the Lens of the Law,” by Leonard M Niehoff “Tanner v. United States”, Justia  “Cattle: Related Cases,” AnimalLaw.info Twombly and Iqbal, “Twiqbal,” Wikipedia “The Crucible,” by Arthur Miller “Shakespeare Unlimited Podcast,” Folger Shakespeare Library “Macbeth,” Shakespeare, full play “Titus Andronicus,” Shakespeare, full play “Henry VI, Part 2,” Shakespeare, full play “Othello,” Shakespeare, full play “Hamlet,” Kenneth Branagh, full movie, free, YouTube American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Jump into a grab bag of legal issues, a “law salad” of ideas that have lately been on the minds of hosts Jim Reeder and Mic Rogson. Law may teach you to think like a lawyer, but does it also teach the practice of law? Hear what Mic and Jim walked away with on graduation day and how it applied to their careers and decades of experience. Practicing law after law school sometimes produces surprises, like learning to mix linear thinking with creativity. You can prepare all you want, but sometimes you need to be “as flexible as Gumby,” Mic says. In the real world, Jim says, practicing lawyers learn to be comfortable. Comfortable with creativity, comfortable with reacting to surprises, and comfortable admitting to the judge, and themselves, that they don’t know everything and may need time to review unfamiliar case law when it crops up in the courtroom. Intimidation and anxiety are the enemy, and young lawyers must learn to relax and react. Then, forget “real life” as Mic and Jim share their favorite courtroom dramas and comedies. What’s your guilty pleasure, and which productions capture how you feel about the law? Everything from the gravity of “Judgment at Nuremberg” to the lighthearted “Legally Blonde” to the surprisingly accurate portrayal in “My Cousin Vinny.” What’s your favorite? Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources Mentioned: “Top 10 Movies Every Law Student Must See - Best Legal Drama Movies,” YouTube “Top 10 Most Accurate Law Movies,” YouTube American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Relativity is a Sponsor of Litigation Radio. On this episode, we will hear from Cristin Traylor, Senior Director of AI transformation & law firm strategy at Relativity. The selection of Relativity as the subject of this interview should not be construed as an endorsement by the American Bar Association of Relativity and its services. Generative AI technology is transforming the world of legal e-discovery from start to finish, and it’s advancing by the day. Guest Cristin Traylor is an attorney and the senior director of AI transformation & law firm strategy at Relativity, a leading legal data intelligence company. Where is AI taking the legal world, and how is it changing the way legal teams sift, manage, and use the electronic data delivered during discovery? Forget boxes of legal paperwork and records. Today, AI can organize and analyze terabytes of digital information. But understanding the technology and its pitfalls—and knowing how to train an AI model—is vital to getting results that matter to uncover the story told by the data. The use of AI in the electronic discovery process and the ability to dig into digital data dumps is not something any firm can afford to put off. This is today’s legal environment and the future of discovery. What are you missing? What might opposing counsel understand that you don’t? If you don’t employ an AI tool, should you? If you have access to AI tools, do you know how to manage them, “train” them, and write effective prompts? You most likely didn’t learn this in law school. You probably don't know what you don't know. Traylor offers a fascinating glimpse into the present and future of legal generative AI technology. You probably don’t know what you don’t know. Also in this episode, quick tips from Lauren Williams as she discusses building a career while also taking care of your own wellbeing. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources Mentioned: Relativity aiR case strategy technology “More Da Silva: 3 Takeaways from Judge Peck's 'Rio Tinto' Opinion,” by Constantine Pappas “EEOC v. Tesla, Inc.: Is GenAI Moving into Mainstream Legal Disclosure?” “Sedona Principle 6 and the Duty to Evaluate” American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

In this episode, learn about the intersection of animal protection and cruelty, domestic violence, and family law with two leaders in the field. Guests Maricarmen Garza is chief counsel for the American Bar Association Commission on Domestic & Sexual Violence and Megan Senatori is the executive director of the Center for Animal Law Studies at the Lewis & Clark Law School. The field of animal law is emerging as states, courts, and lawyers recognize how animal law and animal abuse plays into domestic violence and family law. Progress is being made, but this critical field isn’t fully recognized or understood. In many cases, victims of domestic violence are forced into difficult situations, caught between their own safety and the safety of beloved animal family members. The American Bar Association recently recognized the issue through both its Animal Law Committee and the Commission on Domestic & Sexual Violence. ABA’s recently approved Resolution 504 calls for laws and judicial processes that protect domestic violence survivors and their pets through civil protection orders, domestic relations proceedings, and expanded access to safe housing. Litigators play a vital role in developing this area of law. Hear what you can do and where you can find legal guidance when protecting victims of domestic violence and their pets, from dogs and cats to horses and others. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources Mentioned:Five Ways Attorneys Can Support Domestic Violence Clients with Pets Sheltering Animals of Abuse Victims – Start Up Guide ABA Tort Trial & Insurance Practice Section Animal Law Committee ABA Resolution 504 “ABA House Adopts Policy to Protect Domestic Violence Survivors and Their Pets” American Bar Association Commission on Domestic & Sexual Violence American Bar Association Animal Law Committee American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Though asylum and deportation cases get the headlines, the field of immigration law is complex and broad, and includes an impact on families, employment, and businesses. Policies can shift and vary, and attorneys litigating immigration cases are constantly challenged to keep up with the latest changes. And while these attorneys stay current with the laws, often the earliest immigration hearings are held before a non-lawyer, saddling attorneys with an extra emphasis on clear communication. William Menard is a longtime immigration attorney and a managing partner at Root Law Group, a California-based firm specializing in immigration law. He’s also the host of the podcast “The American Immigrant.” In this episode, you’ll hear how he is navigating new policies and working to serve clients. Plus, a quick tip from corporate attorney Lauren Williams on “keeping your poker face” in court. “Your face is an important part of your advocacy because everyone is watching it … Stay composed.” Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] or [email protected]. Resources: Immigration and Nationality Act American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Round Table Group is a Premier Sponsor of the ABA Litigation Section. The selection of the Round Table Group as the subject of this interview should not be construed as an endorsement by the American Bar Association of the Round Table Group and its services. ----- It seems like every trial today needs an expert. And the experts you choose to learn from and present can make or break your case. So, hear it from the pros. In this episode guests (and experts on experts) Deena Pack and Seth Row share practical tips for successfully hiring and managing an expert for your case. Experts can be some of the most expensive elements of a case. You can’t afford to make a mistake. When it comes to hiring an expert, the rule of thumb is “the earlier the better.” You may not even know if you have a case until you have an expert review of the evidence. But where do you find an expert? One who is not only current and knowledgeable, but also relatable to a judge and jury? Sometimes, even the perception as an “outsider” or a “local” expert matters. How do you make the right choice, vet prior testimony, and review qualifications? And don’t forget the limits of your client’s budget. Plus, a quick tip from Lauren Williams on how to polish your professional reputation by building rapport with courtroom staff. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] and [email protected].  Resources: American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

In this episode, host Mic Rogson leads an in-depth conversation with leading representatives of the American Bar Association House of Delegates, Jonathan Cole and Laura Farber. Why do busy lawyers get involved in these demanding roles? The rewards are countless. Hear how you can get involved and make a real difference both in the law and in society. Hear how (and why) you can get involved. It’s your association, and every member can make a difference. Plus, involvement helps you meet and network with attorneys from across the country, even outside your area of focus. The House of Delegates wants your input, and includes tips on its website for getting involved and even drafting resolutions. If you’ve ever wondered how ABA policies, rules, and opinions are crafted, you’ll hear it all on this episode of Litigation Radio. You don’t need to be an experienced attorney with a long resume to get involved. All are welcome. Why not start today? Plus, a quick tip from Elizabeth Kelley, a criminal defense lawyer with a nationwide practice focused on representing people with mental disabilities. She shares the importance of “lowering the temperature,” how to maintain civility and professionalism even if you feel you’ve been disrespected. Grace under pressure will serve you well. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] and [email protected]. Resources: Previous appearance on the Legal Talk Network, “NCBP 2021: Shaping the Future in the Legal Profession” American Bar Association House of Delegates “ABA Passes Strong Resolutions on Enforceable Ethics, Judge-Shopping,” Fix the Court Attorney Elizabeth Kelley 2026 Women in Litigation CLE Conference American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Have you ever thought about writing the perfect legal brief? Guest David N. Greenwald has, so much so that the retired Cravath, Swaine & Moore partner wrote a book on the subject: Sentence, Paragraph, Argument, Brief: Meeting the Four Challenges of Legal Writing. The book is the culmination of a 30-year legal career, beginning with a clerkship and the lessons learned under the guidance of the Hon. Richard A. Posner, Chief Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit. Reading, digesting, and understanding everything related to each brief proved to be the foundation of good legal writing, Greenwald says. Throughout his career, Greenwald intentionally honed his skills, from writing briefs to eventually, as a partner, editing them. With each paragraph and edit, he focused on the construction and flow of each argument. Writing, Greenwald explains, is a linear process, putting ideas and sentences in a logical progression. A brief, he says, is a special kind of writing that must be learned. It starts with a statement of fact or history, building a narrative. But it’s also a work focused on clarity, without surprises or suspense. Hear Greenwald’s discussion of the art, and science, of legal writing and the principles of a clear, persuasive argument. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] and [email protected]. Resources: Hon. Paul R. Michel, Chief Judge (Retired), U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit on C-SPAN 2026 Women in Litigation CLE Conference American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section “Sentence, Paragraph, Argument, Brief: Meeting the Four Challenges of Legal Writing,” by David N. Greenwald

As the saying goes, a good lawyer knows the law, a great lawyer knows the judge. Building credibility with the court in any case is vital. Veteran attorney and longtime judge Mark Drummond explains why and how you earn trust. Trust and credibility are built brick by brick. It takes a lifetime to build your reputation, but breach that trust once, and the judge will never forget. And make no mistake, judges talk among themselves, so willful missteps will be known across the courthouse and for the rest of your career. Understand the meaning of “candor to the tribunal.” When dealing with a judge, telling the truth is one thing. That can mean presenting the strengths of your case. But candor is what you also share with the judge beyond that, the thorns of the case. Judges who feel you weren’t completely candid may never fully take you at your word again. They may forever wonder what you’re withholding. If you’ve ever wondered what a judge is thinking about you, Judge Drummond lets you know and shares some of his favorite tips for building credibility and putting your best foot forward from the moment you walk into the courtroom. Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] and [email protected]. Resources: Previous appearance on the Legal Talk Network, “NYU’s Civil Jury Project (State Bar of Texas Annual Meeting 2024),” State Bar of Texas Podcast American Bar Association “Free Legal Answers” Civil Jury Project, NYU School of Law Susman Agreements: Clarity for the Rules of Civil Procedure Access to Counsel Project, Federal Bar Counsel “Dealing With Jerks,” by Judge Mark Drummond in ABA Litigation News “Understanding the Pareto Principle (The 80/20 Rule),” Better Explained American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section

Let’s talk about associate retention, keeping those young lawyers you’ve recruited and mentored at your firm. It shouldn’t be a given that every associate will take what you’ve taught them to another firm in two or three years. Guest Ben Dachepalli is a veteran lawyer and a partner in the Tampa office of Bradley Arant Boult Cummings LLP specializing in construction law. As a senior member of his firm, Dachepalli says retaining young associates is more than a transactional activity, it’s building the firm and developing the next generation of leaders. When he’s interviewing prospective hires, “I’m not interviewing my next associate, I’m interviewing my future partners.” Don’t think of young lawyers as associates who will move on— develop them so they not only want to stay but also want to become leaders in your firm. For Dachepalli, the “secret sauce” is an inclusive, team-based approach. Ensure associates are involved and invested in the firm’s success, not simply completing assigned and rote tasks. Communicate with associates as peers, give them responsibilities, and show them they are valued. Involving associates in multiple levels of a case and asking for their input from the start not only shows them you value their skills, but also helps senior attorneys spot unexpected angles and see a case from a different perspective. (And remember, today’s young lawyers grew up with today’s technology, they might even teach you something). Have a question, comment, or suggestion for an upcoming episode? Get in touch at [email protected] and [email protected]. Resources: ⁠American Bar Association⁠ ⁠American Bar Association Litigation Section⁠

In this episode, we say farewell to longtime host Dave Scriven-Young as he turns the podcast hosting duties over to James “Jim” Reeder and Michal “Mic” Rogson. Beginning with the next episode, Jim, an accomplished commercial trial litigator, and Michal, a veteran litigator who strives to turn complex legal issues into clear, concise arguments, will continue Dave’s passion for helping lawyers and law firms thrive. Dave leaves with a few words of advice for both rising young attorneys and established firms looking to the next step. “Build a career that you’ll still love in 20 years,” he says. Curate your life, not just your résumé, and do the things that bring you satisfaction. Learn to say no early in your career. Not every challenge is right for you, and too much static can lead to burnout. Build relationships and guard your reputation, people remember you as a person long after they’ve read your résumé. Assess every step of your career and pivot as needed, people and situations change. And finally, know when to lift up others, help those coming up behind you, be a mentor, and share what you’ve learned. Dave will continue to remain active in the Litigation Section of the American Bar Association and is always eager to meet listeners and share stories at Litigation Section events. Resources: American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section American Bar Association Litigation Journal

E-discovery is one of the hottest areas of litigation today. AI chats, Slack and social media, and confidentiality concerns are big news. As the field advances, it’s becoming increasingly important that legal professionals understand not just how to manage their own team’s data, but also what to ask for in discovery. Guest Nicole Gill, author of Best Practices for E-Discovery: A Practical Handbook (American Bar Association), explains how new sources of digital data emerge almost daily and how rules of collecting and preserving data trails, as well as data generated by AI chatbots, are constantly evolving. You need to stay up to date or you’ll be left behind. Knowing how to broadly expand your discovery requests can be crucial. It’s every attorney’s duty to understand the digital environments where important information, records, and communications live (and sometimes hide). Snapchat, WhatsApp, Facebook, and Slack are changing the way your own clients, and any subject of discovery requests, communicate. What must be preserved and what can be reviewed? And how are countries outside the United States (including China and the EU) managing data and privacy? Plus, a quick tip from guest Lindsay Polega as she explores the value of taking on pro bono work. It can be hard to take a full-time job fighting for justice. Those jobs don’t pay well, and many attorneys are wrestling with overwhelming student loans. But you can still do good by taking on some pro bono work, helping others while getting back to the ideals that got you into the field of law. Resources: Slack WhatsApp Snapchat ChatGPT Thomson Reuters CoCounsel American Bar Association American Bar Association Litigation Section