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Tips to Maximize Your Job Search with Artificial Intelligence
Jun 15, 2026
Unknown duration
How SourcePoint Meets the Needs of Delaware County’s Growing Older Adult Population
Jun 1, 2026
35m 17s
AI, Financial Strategizing, and Life Planning with Ben Hoeger
May 18, 2026
39m 53s
Why Small Businesses Need Strategy Before Marketing with Darlene Ziebell
May 4, 2026
34m 53s
Overcoming Self-Doubt and Embracing Career Growth with Ken Lazar
Apr 20, 2026
46m 11s
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| Date | Episode | Topics | Guests | Brands | Places | Keywords | Sponsor | Length | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6/15/26 | ![]() Tips to Maximize Your Job Search with Artificial Intelligence | How AI Can Accelerate and Improve Your Job Search ProcessSharon Hamersley discusses how we can all make the best use of artificial intelligence (AI) during a job search. With AI now part of our daily lives at home, school, and work, it’s become an essential tool for job seekers and employers alike. Yet, for many, AI can also be intimidating, especially when it comes to writing resumes, preparing for interviews, and navigating online job applications.Across our conversation, we explore not only how AI can make your search faster and more effective, but also why it is crucial to maintain your own authenticity and judgment throughout.Understanding AI as a Job Search ToolRather than fearing AI, we should treat it like any other revolutionary technology of the last fifty years. AI is the "fourth industrial revolution," following the creation of machinery, the development of infrastructure, and the advent of computers.We talk about AI not as a replacement for human skill, but as a support tool. A fast research assistant and brainstorming partner. AI can process information quickly, identify patterns, and generate responses, but it’s only as helpful as the clarity of the instructions you give and the critical thinking you apply to its suggestions.What AI Can—and Can’t—Do for YouOne of the key topics we cover is the ways AI helps job seekers. AI can analyze job postings, pick out transferable skills, and suggest ways to improve resumes.However, AI cannot write your resume for you. If you ask AI to generate your resume solely from a job description, you risk ending up with generic, possibly exaggerated claims. This is a phenomenon we refer to as "hallucination," where the AI makes up details that don't reflect your real experience.Instead, AI’s strength lies in helping you organize information, identify missing keywords, refine wording, and prepare for interviews. It’s particularly useful for brainstorming bullet points, summarizing complex career achievements, and checking your material for relevance to a particular role.Using AI Ethically and Protecting Your PrivacyIf you use AI in your job search, you need to be careful about what information you put into the system. Always remove personal and proprietary data before uploading anything to an AI tool. By creating a plain text (.txt) version of your document, you strip away identifying markers, making it safer to use AI for feedback or analysis.Never feed sensitive information to public AI databases. If you don’t want something available to the public, keep it out of the system.Maximizing the Benefits, Avoiding the PitfallsHere are practical strategies for using AI effectively:Use AI to identify gaps in your resume compared to job descriptions.Ask AI specific, targeted prompts; focus on context, specifics, and objectives.Double-check everything AI generates—treat its output as a draft or starting point, not a final product.Request citations or sources when using AI for research, so you can verify the accuracy of information.Remember, your own experience and judgment must lead the process. AI cannot think critically or judge what best represents your skills.Advice for EmployersWe discuss how employers can use AI to clarify job postings, but stress that AI should never replace human judgment in hiring decisions. Overly broad or unclear job descriptions harm both candidates and organizations. Employers should use AI to support—not automate—key talent decisions and ensure both sides of the interview bring their best, authentic selves.If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!FAQ: Smart Ways to Use AI in a Job Search1. Can AI write my resume for me?No, AI cannot write your resume for you. According to Sharon Hammersley, AI can help improve resumes by identifying transferable skills and missing keywords, but it generates generic content and may overstate experience. You must always refine and personalize the output to reflect your authentic experience 08:07, 12:19.2. How can AI help me prepare for a job interview?AI can assist in preparing for interviews by helping you understand the real intent behind interview questions (the "question behind the question") and by coaching you to prepare stronger, more relevant answers 08:13, 17:37. It’s especially useful for brainstorming and identifying areas where you can demonstrate your value.3. Is it safe to put my personal information into AI resume tools?No, you should never input personal, sensitive, or proprietary information into AI systems. Sharon Hammersley advises removing all identifying details and even using plain text files to anonymize your inputs, as anything entered may become public or used for AI training 14:10–15:57.4. How do I check if a job posting is legitimate when using AI or internet tools?Always verify a job posting directly on the company’s official website. Be wary of recruiters using personal email accounts (like gmail.com) or asking for money to apply—these are common scam red flags 29:08–30:02. AI may help you gather research, but the verification step requires your own judgment.5. Can AI help employers with the hiring process?AI can help employers draft clearer job postings and identify required skills, but it cannot replace human judgment in hiring decisions. Employers should not rely solely on AI to recommend hires; thoughtful, human evaluation is essential to find candidates who fit both the job requirements and company culture 33:05–35:27.We would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett JohnsonMentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 6/1/26 | ![]() How SourcePoint Meets the Needs of Delaware County’s Growing Older Adult Population✨ | aging populationcommunity services+3 | Fara Waugh | SourcePoint | Delaware CountyOhio | older adultsDelaware County+6 | — | 35m 17s | |
| 5/18/26 | ![]() AI, Financial Strategizing, and Life Planning with Ben Hoeger✨ | financial planningwealth management+4 | Ben Hoeger | Shook ResearchHedley Hoeger Group+2 | Otterbein | financial advisorwealth management team+5 | — | 39m 53s | |
| 5/4/26 | ![]() Why Small Businesses Need Strategy Before Marketing with Darlene Ziebell✨ | small business strategymarketing+3 | Darlene Ziebell | Fortune 1000 | — | small businessmarketing strategy+3 | — | 34m 53s | |
| 4/20/26 | ![]() Overcoming Self-Doubt and Embracing Career Growth with Ken Lazar✨ | self-doubtcareer growth+3 | Ken Lazar | Ability Professional Network | — | self-doubtcareer growth+5 | — | 46m 11s | |
| 4/6/26 | ![]() Downsizing With A Heart with The Furniture Bank of Central Ohio✨ | downsizingfurniture donation+3 | Phil Washburn | The Furniture Bank of Central Ohio | — | downsizingfurniture donation+3 | — | 38m 57s | |
| 3/30/26 | ![]() Property Taxes In The News Again And Again✨ | property taxeshome values+3 | Michael Stinziano | Franklin County Auditor | Ohio | property taxhome valuation+3 | — | 40m 52s | |
| 3/16/26 | ![]() Tackling the Modern Job Hunt: Digital Skills, AI, and the Power of Networking✨ | job searchcareer transition+5 | Jami Phillips | New Directions Career Center | — | job searchcareer pivot+6 | — | 35m 25s | |
| 3/2/26 | ![]() SWACO’s Impact on Recycling, Composting, and Community Innovation✨ | recyclingcomposting+3 | Amy Densborn | SWACO | Franklin CountyOhio | recyclingcomposting+3 | — | 43m 50s | |
| 2/16/26 | ![]() Inside Fortuna Bank’s Mission to Support Community and Small Business✨ | community bankingwomen empowerment+3 | Ashley Dick | Fortuna Bank | Columbus | Fortuna BankAshley Dick+5 | — | 42m 34s | |
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| 2/1/26 | ![]() From Back Pain to Balance: Building Resilient Health with Dr. Coffman✨ | healthy agingmobility+3 | Dr. Jacob Coffman | Optimize Chiropractic | — | healthspanlifespan+5 | — | 57m 37s | |
| 1/19/26 | ![]() How The Columbus Metropolitan Library’s Culture Pass Connects the Community✨ | library programscommunity resources+3 | Stephanie Burley | Columbus Metropolitan LibraryColumbus Clippers+1 | ColumbusCentral Ohio+1 | Culture PassColumbus Metropolitan Library+5 | — | 33m 37s | |
| 1/5/26 | ![]() The Contemporary Theatre of Ohio's Impact on Central Ohio Arts✨ | performing artscommunity building+4 | Christy Farnbaugh | Contemporary Theatre of OhioCATCO | ColumbusCentral Ohio+1 | Contemporary Theatre of OhioColumbus arts+5 | — | 1h 07m 00s | |
| 1/1/26 | ![]() How You Can Help Shape the Podcast This New Year✨ | podcastinglistener feedback+4 | — | Circle 270 Media® Podcast ConsultantsLooking Forward Our Way+3 | — | podcast growthlistener engagement+5 | — | 11m 05s | |
| 12/29/25 | ![]() Reflecting on Three Decades of Workforce Change with Kelly Fuller | This episode of Looking Forward Our Way is a special one for us as we sit down with our good friend Kelly Fuller, Senior Vice President of Workforce and Workplace Innovation for the Columbus Chamber of Commerce. The conversation is bittersweet, as Kelly will be retiring from the chamber in early 2026. We’re grateful for her friendship and years of commitment to workforce development and Employment for Seniors in Central Ohio. Even though her chapter at the Chamber is coming to a close, we’re already thinking up future excuses for her to come back to the studio.We take a look at the major shifts the region has experienced—from the decline of manufacturing to the rise of sectors like healthcare, education, and professional services. Kelly shares insights from her own career journey, discusses the changing nature of work and the challenges businesses and workers face today, and explores critical issues like talent retention, the influence of new industries, and the ever-present need for adaptability in the job market. Plus, we don't shy away from discussing tough topics like affordable housing, evolving work environments, and what the future holds for both employers and job seekers.Whether you’re interested in the history of Central Ohio’s workforce, current labor market trends, or you just want some thoughtful career advice, this episode offers valuable wisdom—and a few laughs along the way.If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!Top TakeawaysAdaptability is EssentialOpportunities often arise unexpectedly, and developing transferable skills opens doors to new industries. Kelly herself found her path by leveraging teaching skills in training roles—a testament to staying curious and never pigeonholing yourself.Industry Evolution & Talent GapsManufacturing’s decline in workforce isn’t about lost opportunity—it’s about technological transformation. Central Ohio remains a hub for innovation, but companies and job seekers need to stay ahead by networking, continuously reskilling, and understanding shifting local labor statistics.People-Centric GrowthWhether you’re a business leader or a job hunter, the focus should be on building supportive environments. As Kelly emphasizes, investing in community, addressing housing, and embracing flexible work arrangements isn’t just good policy—it’s essential for attracting and retaining talent in an ever-changing landscape.Moments00:00 Workforce Development Retrospective03:14 Small-Town Roots, Workforce Journey08:02 Ohio's Evolving Manufacturing Landscape12:31 Healthcare Jobs Surge in Ohio14:58 Career Planning Challenges Ahead18:23 "Columbus Way: Balanced Economy Insights"22:24 Downtown Living and Housing Solutions24:50 "Remote Work's Impact and Pushback"29:38 Expanding Workforce & Talent Pipelines31:11 "Building Community-Focused Infrastructure"33:42 "Focus on Regional Strengths"39:31 People-Centric Growth and BelongingWe would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 12/15/25 | ![]() Prenups – What Are They And Who Needs Them? | The True Purpose of Prenups - "I think people think of prenuptial as Just planning for divorce. But all marriages end in one of two ways, divorce or death. And so where I find that some agreements fall short is in planning for the second scenario, whichever it is." - Larae SchraederLet’s be honest—talking about prenups with a partner, friend, or family member can feel uncomfortable and sticky. The conversation is often laced with worries about trust, fairness, and what it means for a relationship. That’s exactly why we felt it was important to bring clarity to this conversation. To help us do just that, we invited Larae Schraeder, an award-winning attorney from Schraeder Law, who specializes in estate planning, probate, and elder law. Larae brings a wealth of experience, with her background in both law and financial services, making her perspective especially valuable for this topic.We explore the ins and outs of prenups and postnups, why open conversations about finances are critical before tying the knot, and how these legal documents can go far beyond just preparing for divorce. From protecting children and business interests to navigating new changes in Ohio law, this episode is packed with practical advice and personal stories to help couples (and their families) prepare for whatever the future may hold. If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!5 Keys You’ll Learn from This Episode:Why talking finances before marriage is a must—even if you’re not Bill Gates (spoiler: it’s about all relationships, not just the rich ones).What a prenup really covers—it’s not just about divorce, but also what happens when marriage ends by death.How enforceable is your napkin agreement? (Hint: Notarization, signatures, and full disclosure are everything!)The lowdown on postnups—did you know Ohio just updated its laws, making postnuptial agreements an option for couples already married?Myths vs. reality: Prenups aren’t just about protecting yourself—they can also protect children, address business ventures, and even outline how to handle unexpected windfalls (hello, surprise royalties or farm booms!).Moments04:55 Notarization for Real Estate Promises06:52 Prenups: Beyond Divorce Planning10:54 Undisclosed Assets in Divorce Settlements15:24 Marital Agreements and Estate Planning16:53 Prenuptial Agreements: Motivations and Considerations20:43 Prenup Considerations for Unique Needs23:14 Medicaid Impact on Long-Term Care26:06 Updated Divorce Agreement Strategies30:06 Contracts Beyond Marriage: Versatile Agreements32:29 Podcast Insights with Larae SchraderWe would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 12/1/25 | ![]() Making Sense of Central Ohio’s Growth and Challenges with The Columbus Foundation | If you’ve ever wondered what makes Central Ohio tick—beyond the headlines and rumors—this episode is for you.We welcome Matthew Martin, Director of Community Research at The Columbus Foundation, for an in-depth look at the Benchmarking Central Ohio 2024 report. We dig into the strengths, challenges, and unique features that define our rapidly growing region and shed light on how data-driven research is helping shape smarter philanthropy, more effective local policy, and a better quality of life for everyone who calls Central Ohio home. Matthew walks us through the origins and purpose of the benchmarking report, what sets Columbus apart among its peer cities, and why it’s critical to not just gather data, but also fuel ongoing conversations for positive community change.Whether you’re interested in regional growth, housing, public health, or the diverse fabric that makes up Central Ohio, get ready for a conversation packed with insights, optimism, and a fresh perspective on how research is powering our region’s future.If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!Here are 3 key takeaways from the discussion:Research-Backed Change: The Columbus Foundation’s benchmarking study isn't just about numbers—it’s a comprehensive review comparing Central Ohio to 22 peer regions, helping community leaders move beyond rumors to real, actionable insights.Complex Challenges, Collaborative Solutions: Central Ohio’s growth, diversity, and resilience are matched by persistent challenges—especially in areas like infant mortality, housing, and public health. The data doesn’t give prescriptive answers, but sparks essential community conversations and inspires collaborative solutions across nonprofit, public, and corporate sectors.It’s a Community Effort: Philanthropy in Columbus isn’t just about big-dollar donors; it’s about countless individuals making an impact together. The city’s unique strengths—like its youthful population and outstanding libraries—are the result of broad-based civic engagement and informed action.We would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 11/17/25 | ![]() Building Careers After Military Service: How Ohio Supports Its Veterans | Whether you’re a veteran, an employer, or someone who wants to support veterans in your community, this episode is packed with practical advice and up-to-date resources to help ensure our veterans thrive after service.Welcome to another episode of "Looking Forward Our Way." This time, we’re putting the spotlight on the unique challenges faced by military veterans as they re-enter the civilian workforce. Joining hosts Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson is Ryan Blackburn, Senior Manager for Military and Federal Programs at Jobs Ohio and a veteran himself. Together, they explain the realities behind veteran employment, from overcoming resume roadblocks and translating military skills, to the vital support services Ohio offers. You’ll learn what’s working, where gaps still exist, and how local employers can play a pivotal role in creating meaningful job opportunities for those who have served. If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!Moments00:00 "Advancing Veteran Workforce in Ohio"03:36 Supporting Veterans Through Education08:57 "Veteran Hiring Resources in Ohio"12:23 Helping Veterans Highlight Individual Contributions13:16 Translating Military Skills for Jobs16:48 Veteran Job Transition Challenges20:02 Guiding Veterans in Corporate Growth23:17 "Ohio Jobs for Veterans"26:24 Military Transition Support Conversations32:40 DoD SkillBridge: Transition Internship Program35:34 Ohio's Economic and Military Development39:44 "County Veteran Services: First Stop"40:55 Shoutout to Murphy, Air ForceTop takeaways for professionals, employers, and anyone passionate about supporting veterans:• Bridging the Employment Gap: Veterans often struggle to translate their military skills into civilian resumes. Programs like OhioMeansJobs Centers and Jobs Ohio’s "Find Your Ohio" initiative are connecting veterans with job resources and employers—sometimes before they even separate from the service.• Supporting Underemployed Veterans: While veteran unemployment rates are typically low, underemployment remains a concern. Employers and workforce agencies are collaborating to ensure vets find roles that match their skill sets and leadership experience—not just a quick paycheck.• Empowering Through Local & National Resources: Ohio offers veteran services offices in every county, and there’s an abundance of government and nonprofit support for veterans and their families. The key? Knowing where to look and leveraging those resources—from federal Small Business Administration support to local mentorship and networking programs.We would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 11/3/25 | ![]() Honoring Veterans: Inside the National Veterans Memorial and Museum with Colonel Bill Butler | Whether you’re a veteran, a family member, an educator, or simply someone interested in history and service, this episode offers a profound look at the enduring legacy of America’s veterans—and the power of storytelling to unite and inspire us all.Welcome to Looking Forward Our Way! In this special episode, hosts Brett Johnson and Carol Ventresca take us inside the National Veterans Memorial and Museum (NVMM) in Columbus, Ohio, for an inspiring conversation with Colonel Bill Butler, U.S. Army (Retired), and president of the museum. As November marks a time to honor and reflect on the sacrifices of our nation’s service members, Colonel Butler shares his remarkable 27-year military journey, the pivotal moments that shaped his career, and the unique challenges veterans face as they transition to civilian life.Together, they talk about the creation and vision of the NVMM—America’s first museum dedicated to telling the stories of veterans from all branches and eras, through both war and peace. Colonel Butler sheds light on the museum’s four guiding pillars: Honor, Connect, Inspire, and Educate, and highlights how individual stories take center stage. The discussion explores the building’s symbolic design, its role in revitalizing Columbus’s west side, and the diverse permanent and temporary exhibits that bring the lived experiences of veterans to life.Here are 3 key takeaways from our conversation:Veteran Stories Matter: NVMM uniquely focuses on individual veterans—their backgrounds, motivations, and legacies—not simply on military campaigns. Visitors gain new understanding of service through exhibits that spotlight real people and their post-service lives.A Hub for Community & Healing: The museum serves as a safe, welcoming place for veterans and their families to connect, reflect, and share experiences—often for the first time. Events like the Vietnam Veterans Welcome Home ceremony offer healing, validation, and genuine community support.Education & Engagement for All Ages: Beyond exhibits, NVMM offers resources for educators, interactive programs for students, and special events (like Daniel the Tiger meet-and-greets!) to inspire future generations and foster a deeper appreciation for service.If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!Moments00:00 "Childhood Adventures to Military Interest"07:09 Military Service Commitment Decisions14:48 John Glenn Inspires Vets' Renovation19:20 Veteran Experience and Community Connection24:19 Veterans' Journey and Experience Exhibit27:28 Vietnam Veterans Day Welcome Ceremony38:11 Diverse Faces of Military Service42:45 Honoring Veterans' Stories Program47:06 "Veteran-Inspired Art Exhibits"52:53 Educational Veterans Interview Programs57:19 Community-Focused National Museum01:01:59 Veterans' Stories and Partnerships01:06:48 Passion for Veterans and Lifelong LearningWe would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 10/20/25 | ![]() Encore Careers and Public Service: A Conversation with Whitehall Mayor Kim Maggard | We sit down with former Whitehall Mayor Kim Maggard for an engaging and insightful conversation about her impressive journey in public service, community leadership, and what lies ahead in her own encore career.From her early days working in librarianship and education to her breakthrough moment mobilizing the community for important school levies, Kim shares how her adaptability, collaborative spirit, and commitment to transparency shaped her political path. She talks about the often-unseen challenges of city leadership—including managing through crises like the opioid epidemic and COVID-19—while tackling issues like economic development, diversity, and housing in Whitehall.Kim also opens up about what true leadership looks like, the importance of strong community partnerships, and advice for both aspiring public servants and anyone searching for a meaningful encore career. Whether you’re curious about navigating career transitions, passionate about public service, or interested in the behind-the-scenes workings of local politics, this episode is packed with inspiration, practical advice, and heartfelt stories. Stay tuned and get ready to look forward—our way!3 key takeaways:Leadership is Vision + Empathy: True leaders communicate their vision, listen to all voices (including naysayers!), and never forget that they serve their community first.Resilience in the Face of Challenge: Whether navigating the uncertainties of COVID-19, addressing housing and opioid crises, or driving infrastructure improvements, Kim showed that challenges can be the most energizing part of public service.Encore Careers Start with Openness: As Kim transitions beyond the mayor’s office, she stresses the importance of patience, volunteerism, and openness to new opportunities—your experience always has value, regardless of age or title.If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!Moments00:00 From Librarian to Political Career08:48 Pursuing Education and Public Service15:12 Effective Vision and Community Upgrades16:48 Promoting Homeownership and Community Pride24:00 Whitehall Fire and Police Appreciation27:31 Value of Hometown and Safety34:14 Infrastructure: Slow Build, Quick Progress41:08 Successful School Levy Campaign48:48 Exploring Volunteer Opportunities50:01 Uncovering Value in Encore Careers01:00:57 Expert Insights with Kim MaggardWe would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 10/6/25 | ![]() What’s New in the 2026 Medicare Enrollment | We welcome back Josh Kinzel from Seniority Benefit Group for his sixth visit to the podcast. The focus of this conversation is on the upcoming changes to Medicare enrollment and coverage for 2026, as well as practical advice for those approaching or currently navigating Medicare options.Breaking Down the Medicare Alphabet SoupJosh walks us through the parts of Medicare and why understanding them is so important:Original Medicare includes Part A (hospitalization, generally free) and Part B (outpatient coverage, with a monthly premium).Original Medicare typically covers 80% of approved costs, but there’s no out-of-pocket cap for the leftover 20%. That’s where the choice between a Medicare Supplement (Medigap) plan and a Medicare Advantage (Part C) plan comes in.Medigap fills in gaps left by Original Medicare—giving simplicity and freedom to see almost any provider accepting Medicare. You add on a Part D drug plan for prescriptions.Medicare Advantage plans are administered by private insurance companies. The government pays these companies on your behalf, so the advertised zero-premium plans are real—but always remember, your Part B premium still applies. With Advantage, you’re often in an HMO or PPO network, may have to seek pre-approval for some services, and pay more out of pocket if major health issues arise.What’s New for Medicare in 2026?As usual, we’re recording before all federal rules are final, but here’s what we know:Part B premiums are expected to rise by about 11%, reaching an estimated $206.50 monthly.Part D drug plan costs may inch up, mainly as insurers adjust to the new $2,000 annual out-of-pocket limit (from the Inflation Reduction Act). While deductibles and catastrophic thresholds rise, costs for many drugs, especially for diabetes, are actually dropping.The infamous “donut hole” coverage gap is now virtually gone, making prescription coverage simpler.Talk continues about longer-term Part D and Advantage contracts (potentially covering more than one year) and the introduction of more pre-authorization (prior approval) steps, including the use of AI to address fraud and control costs.Medicare Advantage and the “Free” Plan QuestionA recurring theme is whether Medicare Advantage’s free or low-cost plans are really “free.” Josh explains that these plans are genuinely $0 premium because the government subsidizes them, but you’ll still pay the Part B premium, plus out-of-pocket costs when you use services. The trade-off is less predictability, more restrictions on doctor/hospital networks, and a risk of higher costs if you need significant care.If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!MyCare Ohio: A New Managed Care Option for Dual EligiblesWe explore MyCare Ohio, a managed care model that combines Medicaid and Medicare benefits for those who qualify for both. Expanding to all 88 counties in Ohio, this program promises consolidation, fewer cards to carry, and—potentially—lower out-of-pocket costs for those with low income and assets. Eligibility, plan availability, and making sure your doctors are in-network are important considerations.How Employers and Retirees Fit InFor people who are still working at 65 or have retiree health coverage, we emphasize comparing employer plans with Medicare options—never simply assuming your current coverage is best. Employers can use experts like Josh’s group to help employees or retirees make smart, cost-effective choices.Moments00:00 "Pre-Enrollment Medicare Insights Podcast"04:21 Career Shift to Medicare Benefits08:04 Medicare Coverage Gaps Explained12:05 Medicare Advantage: Weighing Options13:38 Medicare Advantage vs. Traditional Debate19:08 Insurance Bids May Extend Duration21:00 Medicare Approves without Prior Authorization24:39 Pharmacy Vaccine Billing Issues27:16 Navigating Insurance Plan Limitations29:39 Medicare Advantage vs. Traditional Medicare33:18 Medicare Advantage's Financial Appeal36:27 "MyCare Ohio: Enhanced Medicare Advantage"40:08 Medicare.gov: Comprehensive Resource Guide43:04 Transitioning from Benefits to Medicare46:00 Retiree Benefits Under ScrutinyWe would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 9/29/25 | ![]() The Legacy Project: College Volunteers Capture Wisdom from Older Generations | We sit down with Arielle Galinsky, CEO and co-founder of The Legacy Project Incorporated. Arielle is not only a dual-degree graduate student at Yale Law and Harvard's Kennedy School, but she’s also a passionate advocate for intergenerational connections and storytelling.The Legacy Project, which now spans 25 college campuses, began from Arielle’s personal drive to preserve the life stories of older adults—a mission fueled by loss in her own family and a desire to bridge the gap between generations. In our conversation, Arielle shares how the Legacy Project grew from high school interviews to a fast-growing nonprofit, the challenges of launching a student-led organization, and the critical importance of including young people in conversations about aging.Together, we explore the power of sharing life stories across generations, how college students are building bonds with seniors, and why these connections matter more than ever in today’s world. You'll hear inspiring insights, learn practical ways to get involved, and gain a vision for the future of intergenerational engagement in communities everywhere.If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!Here are 3 key takeaways:Intergenerational Connections are Powerful: The Legacy Project is growing across 25+ college campuses, pairing students with seniors to record life stories. Both seniors and students consistently find value in these relationships, breaking down age-related stereotypes and fostering mutual learning.Storytelling as Civic Engagement: Arielle emphasized that sharing stories isn't just "feel good" work—it's a tool for combating social isolation, reducing ageism, and even driving community change. The project is now launching an Intergenerational Changemakers fellowship to encourage civic collaborations across ages.Opportunities & Resources Abound: From forming campus chapters to collaborating with local senior communities and national organizations like Generations United, there are so many ways to get involved. Whether you're a student, educator, or community member, resources and guidance are available to help you create or join an intergenerational initiative.Moments00:00 Shaping Long-Term Care Policy04:44 "Intergenerational Storytelling Legacy Project"08:24 Legacy Project Integration in Coursework11:55 Conference Sparks Growth in Aging Services15:05 "Mutual Benefits of Generational Ties"18:36 Growing Industry: Services for Seniors20:02 Shift from Recruitment to Expansion24:37 Podcast Resource on Legacy Project25:54 Youth Caregivers Face Unique Challenges30:27 "Intergenerational Change Makers" Initiative32:17 "Fostering Multigenerational Community Dialogue"38:21 Live an Intergenerational Lifestyle39:21 "Embrace Life's Stories"We would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 9/15/25 | ![]() How Charitable Pharmacy of Central Ohio Provides Free Medicine to Those in Need | The Unsung Heroes of Healthcare: "Community pharmacists are maybe the most trusted and most accessible health care provider. They're unsung heroes in our communities but rich with knowledge." - Dr. Taylor ReedWe shine a spotlight on a vital resource in Central Ohio: the Charitable Pharmacy of Central Ohio. For 15 years, this nonprofit has been dedicated to providing free, life-saving prescription medications to those who can’t afford them. Executive Director Dr. Taylor Reed joins the conversation to share his unique career path, the inspiring origin story of the charitable pharmacy, and how the organization serves the community. Especially older adults and those with chronic health needs. We’ll explore the challenges and partnerships that make this work possible, recent changes in Ohio law that allow even more donated medications to reach those in need, and how the pharmacy works hand-in-hand with patients, healthcare providers, and other social service organizations to address the full spectrum of patient wellness. If you or someone you know is struggling with medication costs, or if you’re interested in how you can help, this episode is packed with insights, resources, and ways to get involved. Here are 3 key takeaways for healthcare and community professionals:The Charitable Pharmacy was born from a unique Columbus-style public-private partnership that included city, county, all four major health systems, faith organizations, and business leaders. This cross-sector approach catalyzed innovative and lasting solutions for medication access in our region.Serving over 1,600 individuals annually, the pharmacy provides not just free medication but a holistic support model. Patients often face multiple chronic conditions, and pharmacists deliver ongoing education, coaching, and direct connections to broader health and social services.From state law changes enabling medication donations to partnerships with organizations like the Mid-Ohio Food Collective, the Charitable Pharmacy is addressing the social drivers of health, ensuring patients have food, housing, and transportation, not just medication.If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!Moments00:00 Pharmacist's Career Journey05:18 Launch of a Charitable Pharmacy08:41 Complex Pharmacy Supply Chain Explained09:43 Recycling Unused Medicine Program13:04 Supporting Asset-Limited Employed Individuals17:27 Collaborative Healthcare Connections Ohio22:02 Community Support Through One Door24:33 Addressing Health via Nutrition Access29:31 Expanding Health Care Capacity33:28 Community Pharmacy & Pharmacist AwarenessWe would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/The views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised.Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 9/1/25 | ![]() A Workforce That Welcomes Older Adults | Age Diversity in the Workplace: Benefits, Challenges, and Strategies for EmployersIn this episode of Looking Forward Our Way, Brett and Carol are joined by Dr. Jennifer Crittenden, Assistant Professor of Social Work at the University of Maine and Associate Director for Research at the University of Maine Center on Aging. The focus is on the challenges and opportunities facing older adults as they transition into paid employment, and particularly on how volunteerism can act as a bridge to help them re-enter the workforce.Dr. Crittenden began by sharing her background in gerontology and her early research in older adult volunteerism. She noticed a fascinating trend: some older volunteers were leaving their unpaid roles because they needed or wanted to return to paid employment. This observation set her on a research path to better understand how older adults juggle different responsibilities—such as caregiving, volunteering, and work—and whether skills gained in volunteer opportunities could support their move into paid roles.Through a study funded by AmeriCorps, Dr. Crittenden discovered that many older adults indeed use volunteer experiences as a stepping stone back into employment—even if the volunteer programs themselves weren’t specifically designed for that purpose. This realization led her and other researchers to ponder whether volunteerism could actually become a structured pathway to employment for seniors. Furthermore, her research highlighted the “spillover effect”: skills acquired through both in-person and virtual volunteering frequently enhanced other aspects of life, such as caregiving or community engagement.The partnership with AmeriCorps became more formalized when, in 2022, Dr. Crittenden’s center was approached to help study a new round of demonstration grants focusing on workforce development for older adults. This new initiative required participants to integrate volunteerism into their program design, with the ultimate goal of aiding older adults in securing sustainable employment. Seven different pilot programs across the country were set up, each distinct in its local approach but unified in combining volunteer experience, community service, training, mentorship, and employment support.What makes this research so groundbreaking is its focus on identifying the “secret recipe”—the common elements across all seven pilot programs that effectively support older adults’ transition to sustainable employment. The data, collected from over 150 participants in the first round, helps the researchers understand what motivates seniors, what keeps them engaged, and what drives successful placement into jobs.Looking at the demographics, the majority of participants were women (about 72%), which reflects broader trends in volunteerism. Most were between the ages of 60 and 70—prime years for retirement or semi-retirement—but the programs included participants up to 85. A striking finding was that many lived alone and were single, divorced, or widowed, implying a significant financial need to supplement single-income households.In terms of the nature of work, the positions targeted by these programs were generally paraprofessional roles—such as paralegals or early childhood educators—that often required participants to complete some form of certification or additional training. This requirement, while presenting barriers for some, helped others gain clear pathways into employment that matched their interests and skillsets.Motivation to participate in these programs was largely financial, but the data showed that earning new skills, having a sense of purpose, giving back to the community, and building social connections were also major drivers. This mirrors what we see among younger job seekers, emphasizing that these needs and aspirations are consistent across age groups.Success, however, depended on the alignment between volunteer experience and employment placement. When the volunteer roles were closely matched to the intended jobs, like volunteering in a classroom before being hired as an early childhood educator, participants felt more confident and better prepared. Where this connection was lacking, the transition was less smooth and perceived as less meaningful.If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!What organizations can do to better include and engage older workers? Dr. Crittenden emphasizes that successful employers, regardless of industry, are those who think creatively about work arrangements—offering flexible hours, job sharing, accessible workplaces, and continuous training. Organizations that foster a genuinely inclusive culture and avoid ageist language in recruiting tend to be more successful at attracting and retaining older employees.From the employee perspective, flexibility is key: the ability to work part-time, receive supplemental benefits like health or dental coverage, and access transportation support can all make a difference. Additionally, opportunities for mentorship and intergenerational connection within organizations can enhance a sense of purpose and community.Looking ahead, Dr. Crittenden’s research is moving into its third year. The focus now is on retention: understanding not just what attracts older adults to these programs, but what keeps them in employment. She also highlighted that only about a third of partner organizations offer any training on age diversity, suggesting this is a crucial area for improvement.Key Moments00:00 Volunteering: A Path to Employment04:31 Volunteering's Value in Job Seeking09:41 Increasing Male Participation in Programs13:34 Paraprofessional Pilot Programs for Adults16:33 Motivations for Workforce Reentry19:52 Aligning Volunteer Roles with Career Goals23:00 Leadership's Role in Age Inclusivity26:44 Flexible Work for Caregivers29:22 Flexible Work and Benefits Prioritization32:10 Part-Time Flexibility for Workforce Gaps34:39 Motivation and Workforce InsightsWe would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
| 8/18/25 | ![]() Medical Assistance and Legal Options for End-of-Life Care | "And people kept saying to her, well, why don't we have something like that in Ohio? Why don't we have something like that in Ohio? And so she never intended to start a nonprofit organization, but she got enough feedback that people really wanted to have the option to at least start working on it." Molly McMahon Graziano - Director of Outreach for Ohio End of Life OptionsWe’re talking about the sensitive and essential topic of end-of-life options, an area many of us encounter as caregivers for family members, yet one that often leaves us searching for guidance and support. We sit down with two expert guests: Molly McMahon Graziano, Director of Outreach for Ohio End of Life Options, and Kathleen Carmody, owner of Senior Matters Home Health Care and Consulting, a certified death Doula and dementia practitioner.We explore the resources available for those facing terminal illness, clarify the distinctions between hospice and the evolving role of the death doula, and shed light on important legal and practical considerations. The episode also touches on the deeply personal nature of dying. And how, with the right knowledge and support, families can honor their loved ones’ wishes while navigating the challenging end-of-life journey.Whether you’re currently supporting someone at the end of life, considering how to start these tough conversations, or simply want to better understand the options available, this conversation offers practical insights, heartfelt stories, and a wealth of resources to help you plan with compassion and confidence.3 Key TakeawaysDeath Doulas Offer Practical & Emotional Support: Unlike hospice, death doulas can provide around-the-clock, highly personalized care for both the patient and family, addressing everything from hands-on support to legacy planning and navigating the complex emotional landscape that comes with losing a loved one.Empowered Choices Begin with Conversation: States differ widely in what end-of-life options are available, but the most important tool is open dialogue. Family discussions, advance directives, and clear communication about wishes ensure loved ones’ preferences are heard and respected.Proactive Planning Makes the Hardest Times Easier: Start planning before a crisis. Resources like palliative care consults, practical tools (hello, Next of Kin boxes!), and organizations like Ohio End of Life Options and national groups (e.g., Compassion & Choices) are key to navigating care, easing burdens, and ensuring dignity for everyone involved.If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!Moments00:00 "Founding Senior Matters Home Care"06:51 "Dying with Dignity at Home"07:33 Ohio End of Life Options Founded11:13 Home Care's Role in End-of-Life16:10 Support for Caregivers and Doulas18:24 Prepared for Parental Loss24:00 Advocating for Transparent Medical Information28:33 "Encouraging Palliative Care Consultations"32:28 "Clarifying U.S. Medical Aid Laws"37:06 "Hospice Enrollment and Aid in Dying"39:57 "Start Conversations on End-of-Life"42:04 Planning Elder Care OptionsWe would love to hear from you.Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.Please review our podcast on Google!And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson The views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised.Mentioned in this episode:Listener DisclaimerThe views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised. | — | ||||||
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