Masters in Marketing Agency

Dive into a whirlwind episode where marketing melds with haunted houses, tech trends, and a no-holds-barred web design teardown. It's a detailed delivery filled with sharp insights and hilarious ripostes, perfect for anyone looking to extract the secrets behind potent digital growth strategies.Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Masters in Marketing Agency Podcast.Haunted house becomes marketing goldmineRevelations from a Revenue Orchestration platformDesign choices dissected by a web guruMixing tech with creative for strategic successInsights on encouraging client content creationResources:Solid Digital DevNoodleConnect with Jesse McCabe:LinkedInConnect with our hosts:Josh Hoffman - LinkedInAlex Garashchenko - LinkedInQuotables:18:41 - So it's like, it's very much driven by like what, what gets measured gets done. Like that's one of my favorite sayings, right? It's like if I'm collecting data on something, I will see progress in some way or another. And I love the scientific method. So like, I guess like how that left brain of like creating software applies to then, like how do we drive people to do and act the way that we want them to act when it comes to like our marketing process, right? Like what I hate and what I will never, ever be is like one of these agencies where, you know, we have this one straight up SEO product and you come in and we're gonna do the same thing for you that we're always gonna do for everybody else. Like that just dr. Like we tried that. It's annoying to me. So like I want to have some sort of agile right process to the way that we are applying marketing. 'cause it's not always gonna work. Like at some point you are going to hit a ceiling if you stay stagnant and just keep doing the same things. 11:11- And so we did that and then like two years ago we get this call from ABC and they're like, Hey, we noticed that you have a pretty popular home haunt. Like at this point we had like thousands of people coming and checking us out. What do you think about, you know, being on this reality show contest thing and basically like this Christmas light show that they have on ABC they did one season or yeah, one season where they like had these Halloween setups. And so, you know, this, the crazy thing is that meant that we had to start building in July to create this display so that they could record it in August. And then, you know, oh sure showed in October. So our neighbors absolutely think we're nuts at this point, right? It's like, what are they doing in July? Anyways, I'm making this a long story, so that's great. It's, yeah, it's awesome. I love it. So it goes, it goes great. We actually like scared the host like so much he fell on his ass. And we ended up winning the show.16:58 - Josh: Do you take anything that's cool from your dev days, and bring it to marketing, you know, best practices, whatever it is? Anything?Jesse: Oh, best practices. I don't know about best literally practices. No, but like, I like, I love marketing tech. Like, I love finding new ways that we can use technology and campaigns integrate it with our client stuff. You know what I mean? Like, I'm, right now I'm like way into clay and AI enrichment for, you know, data and like how do we like automate stuff from, you know, coming into A CRM to then like exploring and finding more information about the brand and the person that is, you know, coming to the site and like how does that filter then down into like, you know, sales enablement and, you know, how do we find better qualified leads for our clients? It's all, you know, it's like there's all these new ways of doing this stuff and I just, I love it. I'm working on a WordPress plugin right now to like enhance the experience on our client's websites. 26:50 - I think like when it comes to web design, there's like really kind of like three different types of agencies that do the work. So I think there's like your high-design creative agencies, like, they're typically like B2C kind of agencies where they're trying to always do something different. They're like highly brand-focused, like to the point of almost like changing the brand. And then I think there's like more tech kind of agencies where, you know, they'll find good themes and they'll use those. But the idea is like, we're gonna integrate you and get you like, going with all this stuff. I think a lot of e-commerce companies might use like agencies like that. And then I think like where we fall is we're more strategic. Like I think we have a good balance of tech and we have a good balance of design, but we're not gonna like, do something completely groundbreaking because it's more about like, well what is this website supposed to be doing for the brand? Like what, how does the marketing team going to use this tool moving forward? Like, how do we get everybody set up so that this becomes a good hub for customers to come learn about who you are. But then like there's an intent, like we want them on some sort of journey that is going to bring value to the organization. And so like, that's really like where, where we end up. 56:34 - Alex: Now this thing they can improve in this way.Jesse: And one of the things I was trying to do and I think maybe you guys could apply this for other interviews just like what is the thinking that goes around the difference between products and solutions. So what’s the debate that they’re having around why this decision was made. That was good that you called that out. Maybe you could say like what decision do you think was made to put this there. Because then it goes to the empathy of the person who actually had to put this together. And like maybe they’re going to hear me say something where it’s like yeah we did have that debate. And yeah I lost it you know but at least like it’s like not just saying like their final decision was crap I am literally putting that specific question right into my template, no, I actually until you said it I didn’t I didn’t consider it that way because for me I always hate it because I’m looking at it from the lens of the business owner it’s like I don’t care about your products. Like I have a certain thing that I need to solve I want to I want to find that.

Dive into the nitty-gritty of SEO success with Nick Rubright from Ranko Media. Discover how a year of behind-the-scenes experimentation can exponentially grow your site's traffic. From industry-nuanced strategies to content that converts, this episode is an SEO goldmine — delivered with a dash of gaming fun and music band analogies!Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Masters in Marketing Agency Podcast.SEO growth can take about a year.Outbound reach is key for SEO.Effective link building is not quick.Content should generate links or sales.SEO is competitive just like gaming.Resources:Ranko MediaDevNoodleConnect with Nick Rubright:LinkedInConnect with our hosts:Josh Hoffman - LinkedInAlex Garashchenko - LinkedInQuotables:27:05 - Nick: But I do, I mean I would imagine other marketing agencies struggle with the story of like that first three months being tough where it's like an experiment and yeah, if clients come in and know that it's an experiment, that's the best client. Like when we had Twilio, they knew that it was an experiment and it's like the client saying that is like super helpful. Because then you're kind of like, oh cool, okay. They know that I'm just kind of experimenting and I don't know a lot of things and you almost have like freedom to mess up, you know? And I think the reason my own projects do so much better than client projects is because I feel like I have that freedom to mess up. Hmm. And any of the projects I've grown to like a million visitors a month, I had the freedom to mess up and it wasn't like, it wasn't like the clients attributed the mistakes to me. They attributed the mistakes to like the campaign and they're like kind of asking me like, okay, well this didn't work, so what's next? And those clients are the ones that are successful like a hundred percent of the time pretty muchAlex: Because you're able to take risks and like you said, like it's the 20% where where it works. So you need to be able to take a lot of risks to see where's it gonna work in this industry. 44:40 - We don't care about getting traffic to this page. This is just some stat page, right? We don't care about like links necessarily. We care about making money. So the way we make this make money is we go, you know, from this page that has all the links we link to our other resources on the website. So that could be landing pages or content pieces you wanna rank because you know they're gonna make money. Like if it's like, like if you're plen, if you wanna rank for like best buyer intent data, yeah. Top intent data providers, you would, you know, build this stat roundup and link from that to this, you know, intent data providers list and pass the authority there and that one would rise as a result. You wanna do this a lot. It's not like you do one and this one page gets a lot of links and then you're good. That can work in some cases with like content heavy websites, right? But if you have a page that you're really trying to drive authority26:16 - Even though your market is like insurance or like gambling, right? The gambling niche is super competitive, but everyone's paying for links. So it's like, okay, just don't do that and you can win. You know? Like if you just do digital PR the right way and figure it out. And that's the thing is like once you figure it out, it's like, like, okay, now we can just like print links. But the process of like that first three months is kind of a trial. And I think that the first three months of anything is a trial. Like even when I, when I hire a new employee, it's like the first 90 days is kind of like, all right, we're kind of fucking around and like trying to figure out how this fits into this, right? And this is burn money, you know? And then we get to a place in three months where we're like, okay, now we have a lot of stuff that we can forecast off. But I do, I mean I, I would imagine other marketing agencies struggle with the story of like that first three months being tough where it's like an experiment and yeah, if clients come in and know that it's an experiment, that's the best client. Like when we had Twilio, they knew that it was an experiment and it's like the client saying that is like super helpful. 'cause then you're kind of like, oh cool, okay. They know that I'm just kind of experimenting and I don't know a lot of things and you almost have like freedom to mess up37:53 - And not competing brands, right? So HubSpot's not really a competing brands, but they have a blog so they'd be a good one to research close, right? I've written for close before and this has an audience of salespeople. Like you basically want to think like referral traffic, like if I get on this website, are people gonna click through like is it a clickable link? Because that's how Google's kind of looking at it as a vote. So you wanna get votes from these like authoritative sources and you can't pay for these 'cause these guys care about their website and the guy running the website works for a company that, you know, they don't sell links. That's not their thing and they'll, you know, probably get in trouble for doing that. Like they can get fired. So it's not something. They just want interject real here real quick. It makes so much sense when we talk to our clients, we look at like buckets where their leads come from in terms of their partners. Like for example, they may have partners in other industries like attorneys or real estate agents or whatever it is, and they send traffic their way because in what they do in their business, they say, okay, you may need the service go over here. And this is exactly the same thing that's happening here. Someone's reading content here and as part of it, if they're referencing your data, they, they care about that recommendation. Yeah. They're essentially referring your business.49:17 - And I learned that from Twilio, one of our clients. 'cause like one of the campaigns we did like an infographic campaign, it didn't do well at all and we had to pivot, but they were like, well we can use this for other stuff. And I was like, well, what do you mean? And then they're like, well we can have our sales guys use it or like, we can publish it on social media or share it on our blog or something. And I was like, dang, they make a lot of use out of this. So it's not so isolated. Like they're not like, I guess they're milking the investment a lot.Josh: Totally. Yeah. I think they're getting like sales enablement out. I mean they're literally getting, they're milking the content to get as, as everyone should be. And I think that lowers not the risk. I don't know if risk is the right word, but when you're able to use it in different, you know, avenues, I think it just gets more value out of the project.

Discover expert marketing insights with our agency experts as they uncover industry missteps, AI’s transformative potential, and the essential balance between strategy and operations. A must-listen for marketers striving for success.Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Masters in Marketing Agency Podcast.Find your niche in marketingLeverage AI without losing the human touchThe power of SOPs in streamlined processesBuilding a referral network for agenciesEssential questions before buying a serviceResources:ZenChange MarketingDevNoodleConnect with Diane Moura:LinkedInConnect with our hosts:Josh Hoffman - LinkedInAlex Garashchenko - LinkedInQuotables:28:29 - And something like that, I think can be a real game changer for a lot of businesses, whether, you know, if they're SMB, whether they're a startup, if they're SMBs and they're 10 years in, there's still I think a lot of value there and some of the key tenets are around first of all like, let's make sure that we not only understand the vision of the company, but how are, you know, how are all of the KPIs attached to that vision. You know, if you are, whatever your level is in a company, you should have clarity as to what you're doing and how that impacts the overall company. And so if the executives have KPIs that they're trying to hit and you know, maybe they're bonus eligible, you still need everyone else in the company who is going to have a piece of those KPIs so that it can all be effective. And then there's another, I think, really important tenant that is called right person, right seat 14:45 - Let's make sure that, you know, we start with an MVP, you know, we make sure we test it, we test the market, you're always going to be kind of adding different features. You know, you might do some pivots to some extent, but you have to at least get something out there and get it working first. And the other thing, and this is coming from a marketer, is don't pull the trigger on marketing too soon. So if you don't have a product yet, you can burn through all your cash if you get really excited and you start pushing out all of the marketing that it's going to need. And especially I think with, with SaaS companies, because it's a, it's typically a pretty heavy lift the marketing that's required for SaaS. And if you start to do that too soon, then you know, like things are never gonna be delivered in the time that you think they will. There's always gonna be issues and you know, I worked with a client where they had the front end and the back end development were happening in different parts of the world. And when they finally brought them together, they actually didn't talk. So that was, that was kind of an issue. Had they been a little bit more conservative at the beginning in terms of their spend, they probably would've ended up in a better spot.46:08 - We're not the, you know, give, give me a certain amount of money per month and it's all a black box and trust me, I'm gonna get your marketing done. We're very transparent in the services. So we basically say, okay, here's all the things that need to be done. Now let's have a conversation about what you have the capabilities to do in house versus where it makes sense to outsource and let's look to prioritize. 'cause a lot of SMBs, you know, if you ask them their budget, they really don't know. Some of them are attempting marketing for the first time. So we do need to have that discussion with them and say, look, if you have the people in in house who can, you know, do your own video shoots, great. If you don't, you know, we can handle the shoots for you. You know, if you have your own people who can do social media, you know, do social media, but then maybe engage us just to provide them with some coaching or maybe they're creating content but they're not actually out there doing engagement and you know, maybe they're able to do it for the main brand, but they're not able to do it for your personal brand. 'cause that's like a kind of a, you know, as the founder, you should be top of funnel for your business and so maybe that's not their capabilities. And so then we just, we have a very open conversation with them and we prioritize into phases and then usually that will lead to the engagement.39:26 - And if you're not using that, you're falling behind. And I'm glad that you mentioned, you know, you'll have these unicorns with a few people. 'cause I've always had the thought that AI, if used properly, which you kind of went into pretty deep, which which was great, is essentially a company in a box or a marketing team in a box or like, and there still needs to be that oversight, but you know, it allows you for, and I'll tell you how I use it. Like, I have all these philosophical thoughts and that's why I love getting into Philosophy on this podcast. But I'm not the greatest writer. And what allows me to do is it is not gonna come up with a new philosophical theory, but if I pump in my theory notes, it makes me a good writer and then it makes it a lot easier for someone to read. So, so I, I just think everyone, you know, it is just this tool that makes people more efficient for bad writers. It makes us good writers. 44:47 - Alex: It's really interesting. And the way that you described that, it sounds like you provide a lot of value. Where does that initial kind of discovery before you get to the engagement and where does the engagement start? Is that, that's something we've been talking with a lot of agents is about, you know, there's the initial building, the relationship and discovery. So what does that look like for you?Diane: Yeah, so typically, we'll have an initial exploratory call with a potential client because as much as, you know, if you give me an attorney and you tell me their, you know, personal injury attorney, you know, I've, I've probably got 85% of their marketing plan in my head, right? Because we worked with so many of them, but I don't have that extra 15%. So that has to be personalized. So we, we have conversations about, you know, their business and what has, what has worked well, what hasn't worked well, what resources do they have internally. So we're try, you know, our initial meeting is we're basically capturing that information and we're sharing some things as well, but we really wanna make sure that we focus and target and then we go away and we do our analysis and we come back and we share that presentation that I described to you.

Dive into a whirlwind of marketing strategies and personal revelations with Eric Ritter. Discover the essence of blending SEO with top-notch cuisine, unearthing gems from German streets to Colorado's infamous Casa Bonita. This episode serves a delectable mix of agency insights, cultural anecdotes, and the undeniable charm of nut butters. Don't miss out on these quirky takes and valuable lessons!Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Masters in Marketing Agency Podcast.Partnering and understanding clients.Rich Dad, Poor Dad SEO makeover.Importance of community and connection.Integrating German philosophies in business.Resources:Digital NeighborDevNoodleThe Search Bar Podcast on SpotifyThe Search Bar Podcast on YouTubeConnect with Eric Ritter:LinkedInConnect with our hosts:Josh Hoffman - LinkedInAlex Garashchenko - LinkedInQuotables:38:55 - We work with bigger brands such as Rich Dad, poor Dad came to us, you know, saying, Hey, I'm getting my ass kicked by Dave Ramsey, he's getting a lot more traffic to his website. Can you help us out? We said absolutely. So we did a full audit of the website, worked with his internal team of developers and marketers to kind of say, Hey, this is what you need to do on your website. You have 12 years of like a lot of great content here, but it's kind of a house of cards. It needs to completely be restructured. So we helped with that to restructure it, working with them, helping them through kind of building a new website there. So that's, you know, where we work with people, we work with a lot of creative agencies that don't have in-house SEO or have in-house digital marketing, but they do a lot of creative work. They might build a website but they don't know how to market it. They don't know how to drive traffic there. And my background, right? I got my master's in advertising. So, and my first job was in traditional advertising. 'cause again, from a very small age, right in that walker, that's what I've cared about like TV ads, right? And kind of making that emotional connection with people. So we're really good at partnering with those creative agencies because we understand kind of how that works and how SEO kind of fits in with that because you know, you wanna make a a pretty website but you also wanna get traffic to it and you gotta kind of marry those two things27:14 - And so a lot of agencies can deliver results. They know how to do it. We all kind of have similar processes, but what really matters to me is are you a good partner? Are you partnering? Are you understanding your client, right? And so that's why I say we don't have clients, we have neighbors, right? Because that philosophy of getting to know someone, you're not just a number. You know, we're actually making real human connections here and we're working together to continue to get better results. And so that's, you know, been important to me in my personal life. And that's something that kind of bled over into professional as well through the agency and that philosophy that we give onto our, our clients or neighbors.34:42 - I don't wanna nickel and dime the client or I always want to do the right thing, you know, talk coming back, you know, Josh said golden rule and that's like stuck in my head, like the golden rule of like, hey, you know, if it's gonna take us 15 minutes more to make this kick ass for the client, they're not paying for those 15 minutes. Let's do it. Right? That's the right thing to do. And so at the time I was listening to a lot of Gary Vaynerchuk, Gary V right? And Gary V you gotta take it with a a take it a certain direction, right? Because he's very over the top sometimes of like, listen, you gotta optimize your day, you gotta be working all the time. You're sitting at home watching Netflix, you could be using that time making yourself better, right?. And at the time he had the message of if you're unhappy with your full-time gig, wherever you're working, find something and make that your side hustle until that side hustle becomes sustainable, then you can make that your main hustle. 19:39 - Alex: Have you heard about the Gemba? Does that mean anything to you? Eric - It doesn't, no.Alex: So in Toyota, basically going to the Gemba is going to the place of work and doing, and that's a huge, in part of Toyota culture and a lot of Japanese culture in general is going to the Gemba to see how work is done so you can understanding of what's happening on the ground floor. And that's a core principle of, of theirs.Eric: Yeah. And I think that's a practice. Very similar practice. Yeah. Very similar to kind of what, what's important to me as well is kind of understanding, you know, I call it in the trenches, you know, 'cause you know, I want people to trust me, you know, just like, you know, I'm in the foxhole with them, right. And who you're gonna trust more than someone who you've been into foxhole and been through battle.Alex: And you're able to see like root cause there really yourself instead of trying to operate from a high level taking just people's work for things.28:13 - Josh: So I am very much in the same boat of just being kind and whether, you know, it's karma or whatever it is just like golden rule, a million things that kind of point into like, okay, yes, this is what we should be doing. However, you know, sometimes people can take advantage of that. So has that ever been the case where, you know, you are going in this nice kind approach, but someone tried to take advantage of it?Eric: Yeah, no, great question Josh. And absolutely 100%. You know, and it's really a gut punch, right? Because you know, for all of us in life, you're like, hey, if I follow the golden rule, I should get rewarded, right? Like I never, you know, cross the street when it says don't walk and then one time I'm running late and I do run across when it says don't walk and I get caught even though, you know, a million times in my life I've always done the right thing. And you know, so people are like, well why'd I even follow the golden rule? You know, if I'm gonna get in trouble? And same thing with us is, you know, when you give just a little bit in the business sense, there's people out there that can take advantage of that, right? Like, hey, you paid your invoice, you haven't paid your invoice yet. And like, oh yeah, yeah, we'll pay it, no problem. And then all of a sudden you're like 60, 90 days later you're doing all this work and they're like, oh, we're outta business, we can't pay you. And you're just like, oh fuck, you know, all that money, all that work we did, we're not gonna get paid for it. So that's been a really, I wanna say a hard lesson I guess for me as a founder is, you know, kind of being able to walk that line of wanting to be kind, wanting to help people out, but also it's a business at the end of the day, you know, and I have a responsibility to my employees, I have a responsibility to the company to make sure you know, that we are to getting paid for our work.

Embark on a journey with Jennifer Radke, CEO of the National Institute for Social Media, as she delves into her unique path from entrepreneurship inspiration to leading an organization. Discover how personal experiences shape professional growth, the value of team empowerment, and the art of balancing life’s stress with work demands. Expect insights on mergers, certifications, and the evolving landscape of social media strategy.Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Masters in Marketing Agency Podcast.Entrepreneurial inspiration from family rootsBalancing personal and professional challengesLeveraging team empowerment and leadershipNavigating mergers and acquisitions successfullyFostering collaboration in digital marketingResources:National Institute for Social MediaDevNoodleConnect with Jennifer Radke:LinkedInConnect with our hosts:Josh Hoffman - LinkedInAlex Garashchenko - LinkedInQuotables:21:29 - I feel like, yeah, having the right environment for people to start thinking about the self-improvement and process improvement of the organization that will then ultimately help them. And then everyone else who's involved or associated with the company or the organization is huge. And I always come back to habits and creating triggers around something like if something happened, let that trigger you to then say, I wanna learn more about this, or I think we can use it in this way. Or just say something that way you can start just like, Celeste, is it Celeste? Yep. I said something about it. Yeah, I would like to do that. Now you have a full internship program, it's amazing. It's just the that little spark. And I'm wondering like, what was that trigger for her? And if that can be kind of harnessed and then be put into can we attach that trigger to something we already do and now, you know, there's a whole Yeah. You know, a whole environment for that to continuously happen.18:43 - Yeah, that's always a good question and a thought that the leadership should be doing. And most of us, especially entrepreneurs, if we're small businesses, right? We're so busy pushing the business forward that we don't necessarily spend a lot of time doing that, right? I'm fortunate to be in a space that highlights and focuses in on professional development. So you would think that it would be inherent to me, right? Like a secondary nature just to say, Hey, we're gonna push you outside your comfort zone today and learn something new. But it's not because we just get into our routines and we get into the need to grow the business or to serve our clients or whatever the case may be. And so for me, what I recommend now and what we do now is really try to at least quarterly sit down and talk about, hey, what is something you want to learn? What is something you wish you could do more of? What is something you don't wanna do? 43:53 - Most people do think we are an agency. They look past the fact that we are an institute and go straight to social media. You know it all. So here I'm gonna call you and I want you to do my social. That's usually the request, right? They have a marketing need, a social media management need, or they're hiring for positions. All of those I refer out to our community of certified strategists. So I gather some information from, the folks that are looking, what are they looking for, what are the skills that they need? And then I go to my community of social strategists are certified agencies if there's appropriate, right. And I'll make those recommendations or referrals through that process. We also have a job board on our website that is there for our community of strategists who might be looking. But it is a nice resource for an agency who's hiring or a company who wants to bring someone in full-time.29:50 - What do women in Minnesota do for work? I had traveled about 80% of the time for the last four years within my organization, and I didn't feel like it was well connected to my community. And so I got introduced to the National Institute for Social Media through a friend and a real estate agent of mine who had gone to a business networking international or BNI meeting. And he met the founder, Eric Mills, and Eric was looking for someone to do business development, help build relationships between the institute and colleges and universities. And of course my friend thought of me and I was like, yeah, sure, I could do that while I figure out what I wanna do next. And so I did. So I chatted with Eric, I, I chatted with the investors that he had, and if I'm honest, I wasn't a hundred percent sold right away, right?45:50 - So a few years ago on our website, we did have a directory where all of the certified strategists could fill in a profile. And if they were looking for work, full-time, part-time contracts, stuff like that, what their areas of expertise were, we actually took that off recently. And part of it was because if the strategists weren't updating it properly and often enough, and so people would not feel like they were getting the right service, right? Because they'd go on, they'd email and it was an old email or something like that. And so we've taken that off for now, but the conversation has come back, right? Like how do we create a place where we can not only showcase the amazing work that our strategists are doing, but also have and facilitate collaboration, facilitate work opportunities? And what that looks like going forward is yet to come. It might be another form of directory. Right now we do have some closed groups. So once somebody is certified, there are closed groups where that collaboration is happening behind the scenes. And if I get a request, I'll put it in the closed group, right? So I have a request from somebody outside, I'll put it in the group, and then those who are interested and available can respond and I can make some educated introductions. But we are thinking about how to make that front-facing. But I wanna make sure it's a good experience for everybody involved, and that takes a little bit more planning this time than what we had before.

Dive into the story of a former radio host-turned-agency CEO, Shawnda Huffman, as she shares her relentless journey from craving connection to leading an award-winning creative communications agency. Discover the blend of fierceness and compassion that fuels Tuuti Agency's rise in the marketing landscape. Get ready for an episode packed with insights on overcoming fears, embracing the power of PR, and the significance of humility in celebrating achievements.Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Masters in Marketing Agency Podcast.Shawnda's childhood quest for connection.The transition from radio to marketing.Building Tuuti Agency and its milestones.The role of introversion in leadership.Embracing the "award-winning" accolade.Resources:Tuuti AgencyDevNoodleConnect with Shawnda Huffman:LinkedInConnect with our hosts:Josh Hoffman - LinkedInAlex Garashchenko - LinkedInQuotables:20:22 - I am a true believer on learning from failure, even though I hate it. As much as I hate when it happens, I'm like, okay, well what do we learn from this? How could we, how could we get better? And so and so, yeah, like I think with, whenever I share that, because to people that meet me who are in my life, they're like, really? You don't seem afraid of anything. And I'm like, I think it's my fear of control. Like to me, I will not allow fear to control me. I won't allow anything to control me. So for me, I categorize that the same. So even though I am afraid, I'm not gonna allow it to control my destiny and kind of what I do.18:21 - Josh: What do you think is the difference between, you know, you who went through that stuff and we'll call it came out on top, versus someone who let's just say went through a very similar experience and wanted to be successful and didn't, like what would you identify as something that you did or traits or whatever it is that kinda led to your success based on that trauma?Shawnda: I think my number one trait is relentlessness. And I think some people, like, they get, they're really surprised when I say the scariest part of my scariest part of my day is waking up in the morning. I'm afraid of everything, but I refuse to allow fear to control me.19:60 - Josh: And the quote that I think I came up with is the, your fear of regret should be bigger than your fear of failure. And I, and I think that's kind of what you were saying is.Shawnda: Oh yeahJosh: Should be worried about not trying it more than you should, like whatever the end result is. And, and I think that's kind of what you're highlighting.Shawnda: Yeah. I mean, it, it's kind of cliche to say because I mean, you hear that all the time, but it's so true and it's something to live by. Like I, me, like, even though I am so afraid, I'm afraid to fail, but I'm also knowing that failure is absolutely necessary to become better and get stronger and learn from it. Right? I'm, I am a true believer on learning from failure, even though I hate it. As much as I hate when it happens35:20 - Sometimes people just deplete me and I need to take like a five day rest. But I also like, I'm okay. Like, people were also surprised because I'm so loud. I'm like, I'm like the megaphone of the business, but really I have to like pump myself up to do those types of things. I'm not just like naturally waking up going, yeah, let's conquer the world. I have to like go okay. Like, just kind of like a transformer, just kind of, you know, work myself into the day. But I'm just not naturally like that. I call it, again, going back to my childhood, is it trauma response? I don't know. I have no idea.43:43 - So Kaylee is like the master of like grassroots, like if you have, because I think people get, give you, they have a kind of a negative undertone when it comes to pr. They think it's just media coverage and it's not, I mean it's like, it's, it's polarizing campaigns to grab attention for your business and then obviously that free advertising, free media comes, comes along if your message is right.