Midrats

It has been a bit more than six years since then Commandant of the Marine Corps, General David Berger, USMC, initiated what became known as Force Design 2030 (now just known as Force Design). What followed was a controversial change to the structure of the United States Marine Corps intended to address the challenge posed by the People's Republic of China in the western Pacific.Now more than halfway to the original 2030 target, and informed by events from Ukraine and Southwest Asia since 2020, both long-standing critics of the design and other voices are readdressing the changes—and the critique—to see if it remains the right path.Joining the Midrats Podcast is General Anthony Zinni, USMC (Ret.).SummaryIn this episode, retired General Anthony Zinny discusses the evolution of Marine Corps force design, its strategic implications, and the importance of a flexible, well-analyzed approach to military modernization.Show LinksGeneral Anthony Zinni, USMC (Ret.) full bioForce Design 2030Marine leaders drop ‘2030’ from name of ambitious overhaul planUSMC Force Design Update from 2023The Marines Must Think Bigger Than Small Units, Real Clear Defense, December 09, 2025, Anthony Zinni & Jerry McAbee , Timothy WellsMore funding for the wrong programs won’t fix the Marine Corps, Washington Times, July 10, 2025, by Gen. Charles Krulak and Gen. Anthony ZinniOn the Future of the Marine Corps: Assessing Force Design 2030, CSIS, May 16, 2022What is the role of the Marine Corps in today’s global security environment?, Task & Purpose, Apr 19, 2022, Anthony ZinniGeneral Anthony Zinni (ret.) on Wargaming Iraq, Millennium Challenge, and Competition, CIMSEC, October 18, 2021, by Mie Augier and Major Sean F. X. BarrettUSNA lecture: The Obligation to tell the truthChapters00:00: Introduction to Force Design 203003:28: General Zinni’s Perspective on Force Design17:33: Critique of Current Military Strategy24:08: Cultural Dynamics within the Marine Corps32:25: Logistics and Equipment Considerations35:40: Strategic Military Logistics38:01: Challenges in the Strait of Hormuz40:37: Marine Corps Littoral Regiments43:21: Logistics and Mobility in Modern Warfare46:49: Lessons from Military History: The 70s and 90s49:11: Innovation in Military Strategy52:32: The Importance of a Structured Development Process56:14: Future Threats and Military PreparednessGeneral Zinni’s record of 35 years of service in uniform covers the breadth of service from the Vietnam War to his tour as Commander of U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) from 1997 to 2000. Following his retirement from active duty, General Zinni continued to serve in senior diplomatic roles, including as the U.S. Special Envoy to Israel and the Palestinian Authority (2001–2003) and later as Special Envoy to Qatar (2017–2019). He is the author of several books, including the New York Times bestsellers Battle Ready (with Tom Clancy) and The Battle for Peace, as well as Leading the Charge and Before the First Shots Are Fired. Additionally, he continues working in academic positions and as a speaker on geopolitics, ethical leadership, and America’s role in the world.

So, is this the time to make battleships great again?I would be hard-pressed to think of a better guest to help us explore that question than returning guest, Rob Farley. A starting point for our conversation will be his article from December, The Trump-Class Battleship Summed Up In 1 Word.Show LinksThe Battleship Book, by Robert Farley’sPatterson School of Diplomacy and International CommerceLawyers, Guns, and Money Dr. Robert Farley’s X ProfileDr. Robert Farley’s Blue Sky ProfileMy thoughts on SLCM-NSummaryIn this episode, Dr. Robert Farley discusses the concept of battleships, their historical significance, and the strategic considerations for modern naval warfare. The conversation covers technological challenges, political implications, and future force structure planning.Chapters00:00: Introduction to the Battleship Debate02:31: Historical Context and Modern Relevance of Battleships07:44: Survivability and Modern Warfare Challenges13:11: The Role of Nuclear Capabilities in Battleships20:11: Political and Strategic Implications of Battleship Armament23:15: Technological Innovations and Future of Naval Warfare32:36: Design Philosophy and Size of Modern Warships39:32: Historical Lessons and Future Capabilities46:03: Political Implications of Naval Procurement52:30 Shipbuilding Challenges and Future DirectionsDr. Robert Farley has taught security and diplomacy courses at the Patterson School since 2005. He received his BS from the University of Oregon in 1997, and his Ph.D. from the University of Washington in 2004. In addition to the book of the moment, The Battleship Book (Wildside, 2016), Dr. Farley is the author of Grounded: The Case for Abolishing the United States Air Force (University Press of Kentucky, 2014), and Patents for Power: Intellectual Property Law and the Diffusion of Military Technology (University of Chicago, 2020). He has contributed extensively to a number of journals and magazines, including the National Interest, the Diplomat: APAC, World Politics Review, and the American Prospect. Dr. Farley is also a founder and senior editor of Lawyers, Guns and Money.

Show LinksThe Congress, the Golden Fleet, and the Shipbuilding Industrial Base in 2026SummaryIn this episode of Midrats, Sal and Mark engage with Eric Labs, a senior analyst at the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), to discuss the complexities of shipbuilding costs, the role of the CBO in providing independent estimates, and the challenges faced by the U.S. Navy in maintaining and expanding its fleet. Eric shares insights on the differences between CBO and Navy cost estimates, the impact of maintenance on overall ship costs, and the importance of a skilled labor force in shipbuilding. The conversation also touches on the historical context of shipbuilding budgets, congressional appropriations, and the future of naval forces in the face of evolving defense needs.Dr. Eric Labs is Senior Analyst for Naval Forces and Weapons at the Congressional Budget Office in Washington, D.C. He specializes in issues related to the procurement, budgeting, and sizing of the forces for the Department of the Navy. He received his doctorate in political science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and graduated from Tufts University, summa cum laude, in 1988. He has worked for the Institute for Foreign Policy Analysis in Cambridge, Massachusetts and, from 1994 to 1995, as a Visiting Scholar at the Center for International Security Studies at the University of Maryland. Dr. Labs has been with the Congressional Budget Office since 1995. Chapters00:00: Introduction to the CBO and Eric Labs03:01: Understanding the Role of the CBO06:01: Cost Estimation Approaches in Shipbuilding08:54: Historical Context of CBO Estimates vs Navy Estimates12:04: Challenges in Shipbuilding Cost Estimates15:09: The Impact of Maintenance on Ship Costs18:00: Congressional Budgeting and Shipbuilding Appropriations20:48: Labor Force Challenges in Shipbuilding23:58: Future of the U.S. Navy Fleet and Shipbuilding27:05: Conclusion and Future Considerations

Is four months too short a turnaround for a guest on Midrats? Not if the topic at hand keeps running to the top of your read board.From the unending diplomacy responding to the Trump Administration’s unending drive to get Greenland’s geography—and the resulting security—more firmly under American control, to the sitcom-worthy deployment of a couple of dozen “Coalition of the Freezing”—Greenland can’t-stop-won’t-stop from gathering eyeballs and attention.So, we’re bringing back Elizabeth Buchanan for another visit. We’ll use her recent article in The Spectator as starting off point, A buyer’s guide to Greenland.Dr. Elizabeth Buchanan is a senior fellow with the Australian Strategic Policy Institute and an expert associate of the French Ministry of Armed Forces’ Institute for Strategic Research.Most recently she was Head of Research for the Royal Australian Navy (Department of Defence). Dr Buchanan is co-founder of the polar warfare program (Project 6633) at the Modern War Institute of the West Point Military Academy. Before joining Australia’s Defence Department, Dr. Buchanan was Lecturer of Strategic Studies for the Defence and Strategic Studies Course at the Australian War College.Elizabeth holds a Ph.D. in Russian Arctic Strategy and completed her post-doctoral studies as a Maritime Fellow at the NATO Defense College in Rome. She has published widely on geopolitics, most recently with Australian Foreign Affairs, International Affairs, War on the Rocks, Foreign Policy, Foreign Affairs, The Australian, and The American Conservative.Dr. Buchanan has been a Visiting Scholar with the Brookings Institution and was an analyst with Royal Dutch Shell. Elizabeth has three published books:: Russian Energy Strategy in Asia and Red Arctic: Russian Arctic Strategy under Putin. In addition to, So you want to own Greenland, she also has an upcoming book, Competitive Cooperation at the Ends of the Earth.Show links:So You Want to Own Greenland?: Lessons from the Vikings to Trump.Liz’s SEP 2024 visit to Midrats.The Unfortunate Greenland Kerfuffle.Denmark’s strategic concerns about China and Russia around Greenland, via Nick Solheim.Liz on X.SummaryIn this episode of Midrats, the hosts welcome back Dr. Elizabeth Buchanan, a senior fellow at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute and Center for the National Interest, to discuss the ongoing geopolitical significance of Greenland. The conversation delves into the historical context of U.S.-Greenland relations, particularly in light of recent tensions and discussions surrounding Greenland’s potential independence. Dr. Buchanan emphasizes the importance of understanding Greenland’s strategic position in the Arctic, especially regarding U.S. national security interests and the implications of a changing global landscape, including China’s growing influence. The dialogue also touches on the complexities of Greenland’s relationship with Denmark and the potential for a direct U.S.-Greenland partnership.Chapters00:00: Introduction and Overview of Greenland’s Importance02:38: Historical Context of U.S.-Greenland Relations05:52: The 2004 Defense Treaty and Its Implications12:23: Greenland’s Independence Movement and Future Prospects31:50: Best Case Scenarios for U.S.-Greenland Relations32:17: Understanding the Scrappy Spirit of Greenland39:12: The Geopolitical Landscape: Europe and the U.S.54:31: Greenland’s Future: Independence or Status Quo?

With a few days now behind us, most of the general facts are in on our raid into Caracas, Venezuela to capture Nicolás Maduro and, it appears, his wife as well.Now that Maduro is a guest of the Southern District of New York, it is time to not just look at some of the details of the buildup and execution of this raid, but the initial lessons we can take from it, and what it means in the larger strategic environment.SummaryIn this episode of Midrats, Mark and Sal discuss the recent military operation in Venezuela, reflecting on its execution and implications for national security. They explore the potential for Venezuela’s recovery, the role of governance, and the international reactions to the operation. The conversation also touches on the economic impact of Venezuelan oil, China’s influence in the region, and the effectiveness of international organizations like the UN.TakeawaysThe military operation in Venezuela was well-planned and executed.The ages of service members involved ranged from 20 to 49.Venezuela has the potential for economic recovery if governance improves.China’s influence in Latin America poses challenges for U.S. interests.The UN’s effectiveness in international law is questioned.Venezuelan oil could impact global energy prices.The operation sends a strong signal to adversaries.Governance and rule of law are crucial for Venezuela’s future.The U.S. military’s capabilities are unmatched globally.The situation in Venezuela is a test for U.S. foreign policy.Chapters00:00: New Year, New Beginnings02:11: Operation in Venezuela: A Military Success09:36: Venezuela’s Future: Opportunities and Challenges16:25: International Reactions and Implications23:08: The Role of Governance in Venezuela’s Recovery28:16: The Economic Impact of Venezuelan Oil36:38: China’s Influence and Global Fishing Rights43:17: The UN and International Law: A Critical View48:38: Looking Ahead: The Path for Venezuela

One of our guests on Episode 3 of Midrats was Bryan McGrath, CDR, USN (Ret.). Over the years he’s returned often, and has even graced us with the pleasure of a few guest posts here.As he’s let people know for years, he was going to retire for good at 60. True to his word, he hung it up a few weeks ago.Earlier this year before he got too focused on his figs and vines, I asked Bryan to come on for a broad-ranging conversation.What a great hour.A retired Naval Officer, Bryan spent 21 years on active duty including a tour in command of USS BULKELEY (DDG 84), a guided-missile destroyer homeported in Norfolk, Virginia. In command, he received the “Admiral Elmo Zumwalt Award for Inspirational Leadership” from the Surface Navy Association and his ship earned the USS ARIZONA Memorial Trophy signifying its selection as the Fleet’s most combat-ready warship. His final duties ashore included serving as Team Lead and Primary Author of the US Navy’s 2007 Maritime Strategy “A Cooperative Strategy for 21st Century Seapower”.Bryan was formerly the Deputy Director of the Hudson Institute Center for American Seapower. In this capacity, he helped develop the Surface Navy’s “Distributed Lethality” concept and the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments’ 2017 Navy Alternate Fleet Architecture Study.Bryan earned a BA in History from the University of Virginia in 1987, and an MA in Political Science (Congressional Studies) from The Catholic University of America. He is a graduate of the Naval War College.He retired again in November 2025 after 13 years in defense consulting.Show LinksThe End of the Road, Bryan McGrathIn Praise of the Military-Industrial Complex, Bryan McGrathSummaryIn this episode of Midrats, hosts Sal and Mark welcome back Bryan McGrath to discuss his reflections on retirement, the changes in the naval environment over the years, and the importance of relationships in naval policy. They delve into the challenges facing shipbuilding and naval strategy, the need for diverse naval capabilities, and the influence of Congress on naval development. The conversation also touches on personnel and leadership in the Navy, learning from past naval conflicts, and the impact of historical events on naval leadership. Bryan shares insights on future directions for naval operations, praises recent naval performance, and emphasizes the role of technology in naval warfare. The episode concludes with a discussion on collaboration between industry and military and Bryan’s final thoughts on future advocacy in the naval sphere.Chapters00:00: Introduction and Guest Background04:46: Reflections on Retirement and Career Path07:35: Changes in Naval Environment Over the Years11:17: The Importance of Relationships in Naval Policy14:47: Challenges in Shipbuilding and Naval Strategy18:03: The Need for Diverse Naval Capabilities21:25: Congressional Influence on Naval Development24:40: Personnel and Leadership in the Navy28:14: Learning from Past Naval Conflicts32:45: The Impact of Historical Events on Naval Leadership36:08: Future Directions for Naval Operations39:00: Praise for Naval Performance in Recent Operations43:23: The Role of Technology in Naval Warfare46:57: Collaboration Between Industry and Military50:48: Final Thoughts and Future Advocacy

For a decade and a half, since President Obama’s Pacific Pivot speech, there has been a rising tide in the conversation about the need to fix the US Navy’s shortfall to meet the challenge of the People’s Republic of China.Faced with systemic and cascading failures in everything from surface ship design to maintenance, and distractions as frivolous as Great Green Fleets at sea and as serious as the Islamic State ashore, navalists have been waiting for serious action on the waterfront to match the rising tide of the strategic situation.Rhetorically at least, the second Trump administration came in saying all the right things to give hope that, at last, we would turn into the wind.Are we?Returning to the Midrats Podcast is Chris Servello, CDR, USN (Ret.), cofounder of Provision Advisors PR Consultancy. Show LinksCavas Ships PodcastProvision AdvisorsSummaryIn this episode of Midrats, Mark, Sal, and Chris Servello discuss the current state of the U.S. Navy, focusing on leadership challenges, the importance of communication, and the need for innovation in naval strategy and technology. They explore the cultural issues within the Navy that hinder progress and the necessity for reform in acquisition processes. The conversation also touches on the role of allied navies and the importance of domestic shipbuilding capabilities in maintaining American sea power.TakeawaysThe Navy is at a critical juncture in reclaiming its sea power.Leadership changes are necessary to address the Navy’s challenges.Communication with Congress and the public is vital for naval support.Cultural issues within the Navy contribute to a lack of innovation.The Navy must learn from allied navies and their practices.Acquisition processes need significant reform to be effective.Risk-taking and creativity are essential for naval success.Domestic shipbuilding capabilities must be prioritized over outsourcing.The current political climate affects national security discussions.The Navy’s future depends on effective leadership and strategic planning.Chapters00:00: Introduction05:04: Reflections on Naval Strategy and Leadership09:51: Challenges in Navy Leadership and Administration14:47: Comparative Analysis of Military Services19:50: The Importance of Communication and Public Engagement24:51: Innovations in Naval Technology and Acquisition Reform30:07: Concluding Thoughts on Naval Future and Leadership32:18: Navigating Leadership Challenges in the Navy34:28: The State of American Sea Power36:42: Balancing Domestic and Foreign Shipbuilding40:52: The Future of Naval Strategy and Technology45:18: The Role of Congress in Naval Affairs48:32: Innovating Beyond Traditional Naval Constructs51:43: Cultural Barriers to Risk and Innovation56:40: Reviving Experimentation in Naval Programs01:00:07: Learning from Global Naval Practices

SummaryIn this conversation, Chris Brose, President and Chief Strategy Officer of Anduril, joins Sal and Mark to discuss the company’s mission to revolutionize defense technology by integrating commercial innovations into military applications. He emphasizes the need for mass-producible military capabilities, the importance of adaptability in modern warfare, and the challenges posed by the current U.S. acquisition system. Brose also highlights the significance of collaborative combat systems and international partnerships, particularly through the Ghost Shark program with the Australian Navy. He expresses optimism about the future of U.S. defense, advocating for a shift towards a more agile and innovative approach to military production and strategy.Chapters00:00: Introduction to Anduril and Its Mission04:26: The Unique Position of Anduril in Defense09:02: The Shift in Military Strategy and Production Needs13:11: Designing for Mass Production and Scalability17:50: Innovations in Collaborative Combat Systems23:35: The Ghost Shark Program and International Collaboration28:02: Challenges in the U.S. Acquisition System34:34: Deployability and Operational Integration of New Systems39:41: Cost-Effective Solutions for Modern Warfare45:01: Optimism for the Future of U.S. Defense