Mik + One: The Official Project to Product Podcast by Dr. Mik Kersten

In this episode, Mik Kersten is joined by Gene Kim—author of The Phoenix Project and The Unicorn Project—for a deep dive into Vibe Coding, his upcoming book co-authored with Steve Yegge. Gene shares how learning to “vibe code”—where the developer supervises AI-generated code instead of writing it line by line—transformed his own productivity and reignited his passion for coding. The conversation unpacks how AI-assisted development drives an unprecedented 10x increase in productivity—and why most organizations are structurally unprepared to take advantage of it. Mik and Gene explore the architectural shifts, leadership models, and organizational rewiring needed to thrive in this new era. From FAFO (Faster, Ambitious, Fun, Optionality) to the fall of monolithic systems, they cover it all. Plus, they draw parallels between AI and past industrial revolutions, touch on real-world stories from Booking.com, Adidas, and the UK government, and preview Mik’s forthcoming book, Output to Outcomes, a playbook for organizations navigating the shift from outputs to measurable, scalable results in the age of AI. Key discussions include: How Mik’s upcoming book Output to Outcomes builds on Project to Product to guide organizations through this next transformation Why traditional team structures and monolithic architectures are holding back the potential of AI The FAFO model (Faster, Ambitious, Fun, Optionality) and what it means for developer experience Lessons from Amazon, Booking.com, and the UK government on adopting GenAI at scale Why modularity and outcome-based teams are essential for thriving in the age of AI Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne For more information about Gene Kim and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: Show Notes and Transcript.pdf

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One are industry luminaries Dr. Suzette Johnson and Robin Yeman. Suzette and Robin explore the integration of lean, agile, and digital methodologies into the increasingly complex realm of cyber-physical systems. They share compelling insights from their recently published book, "Industrial DevOps: Build Better Systems Faster." Suzette and Robin also stress the importance of integrating agile practices beyond software into hardware and the broader cyber-physical ecosystem, highlighting real-world examples and debunking common misconceptions. Listen as Mik, Suzette, and Robin reflect on the evolution from small team agility to expansive, multifunctional team cohesion. Key discussions include: Agile Beyond Software: Agile isn't limited to software; it can and should extend into hardware and cyber-physical systems for holistic efficiency. Importance of a Multi-Horizon Planning: Implementing multiple horizons of planning bridges the gap between short-term agility and long-term strategy. Role of Leadership: Leadership at all levels—especially in setting objectives and prioritizing work—plays a crucial role in the successful adoption of agile and DevOps practices. Data-Driven Decisions: Emphasizing the importance of using empirical data to constantly refine plans and reduce uncertainties. Continuous Learning and Growth Mindset: A perpetual state of learning and adaptation is necessary to keep pace with technological advancement and project complexities. Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFe MarTech Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts Join the Flow Framework Community

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Dr. Steve Mayner, a revered expert and coach in digital leadership, organizational change strategy, continuous learning culture, agile contracts, and SAFe practices within government contexts. Mik and Dr. Steve Mayner discuss the nuances of transformative leadership and its pivotal role in driving successful business agility and digital transformation efforts. They also examine the evolution and future of Lean-Agile practices tailored for the fast-evolving AI landscape. Listen as Mik and Dr. Steve Mayner explore the intersections of digital leadership, Agile transformation, and the emerging impacts of artificial intelligence in the digital age. Key discussions include: Transformational leadership is essential for fostering an innovative and adaptive organizational culture. AI's role in enhancing productivity and operational efficiency requires leaders to embrace these technologies and lead their integration effectively within their organizations. Successful digital transformation hinges not only on adopting new technologies but significantly on leadership that creates an environment of trust and drives organizational change. Continuous learning and leveraging AI tools can exponentially boost a leader's effectiveness, enabling informed decision-making in real-time. Adaptive leadership, coupled with a strong foundation in business acumen, is crucial for navigating the complexities of leading organizations in the digital age. Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFe MarTech Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts Join the Flow Framework Community For more information about Steve Mayner and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://flowframework.org/ffc-podcast/steve-mayner/

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Scott Densmore, VP of Engineering at GitHub, to discuss the future of connected work and the impact of GitHub Copilot on developer productivity. GitHub Copilot is an AI-powered tool that provides code completion and suggestions to developers, allowing them to write code faster and more efficiently. Scott shares the history of GitHub Copilot and how it has evolved to become a game-changer in the world of software development. He also talks about developer flow and happiness and explains how Copilot enhances these aspects by reducing toil and increasing productivity. Listen as Mik and Scott discuss the potential for customization and extensibility in Copilot, allowing developers to build their agents and their skills to further enhance their workflows. Key discussions include: GitHub Copilot is an AI-powered tool that provides code completion and suggestions to developers, increasing productivity and reducing toil. Copilot has been in development for several years, with a focus on fine-tuning the models and prompts to provide accurate and helpful suggestions across multiple programming languages. Studies have shown that developers using Copilot can complete tasks in significantly less time, leading to increased productivity and happiness. Customization is a key feature of Copilot, allowing developers to build models on top of their own code and improve the accuracy of suggestions. The introduction of chat functionality in Copilot allows developers to ask questions, get explanations of code, and even generate tests or refactorings. GitHub is working on an extensibility platform for Copilot to enhance their workflows and bring in expertise from various tools and services. Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on X: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFe Dean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2 MarTech Dave West - podcast episode Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts Join the Flow Framework Community

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Pallab Chatterjee, a visionary entrepreneur and technology expert. Pallab is currently the chairman of 3Lines VC, a boutique VC firm specializing in investments in AI-focused companies in the US and India. Pallab shares his journey from running a research lab at Texas Instruments to becoming the CEO of IT Technologies and Symphony Retail AI. Mik and Pallab discuss the TI-84 and TI-86 calculators, which Pallab helped bring to market, and how they revolutionized the industry. They discuss the importance of understanding waste and its impact on organizational capacity and the role of finance in driving digital transformation. Mik and Pallab also discuss the importance of actionable visibility and the challenges of implementing predictive and prescriptive models in organizations. Key discussions include: The story behind the Ti 84 and Ti 86 calculators Understanding waste and its impact on organizational capacity The role of finance in driving digital transformation The role of AI and digital disruption in shaping the future of work Advice for organizations looking to embrace digital transformation The PDCA cycle and the importance of actionable visibility The challenges of implementing predictive and prescriptive models in organizations Understanding waste and rework cycles in software organizations The need for a metadata layer to operate on an enterprise relational database How organizations can avoid stagnation or falling behind The importance of customer-centricity and quantifying pain levels Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne Additional Resources: Portfolio SAFe Dean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2 MarTech Dave West - podcast episode Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts Join the Flow Framework Community

In this episode of Mik + One, we’re flipping the script! Debbie Konrad, an early Value Stream Management advocate, interviews Mik. The two discuss a new report, the 2023 Project to Product State of the Industry Report, that analyzed anonymized data from 2022 of 3600+ software delivery teams representing over 38,000 business product owners and engineers combined with 326 targeted survey respondents in 34 of the world’s leading enterprises. It revealed that five years into the shift from project to product, following the publication of Mik's seminal book on the subject, only 8 percent of sample have operationalized the product model. Debbie and Mik discuss how the report’s findings are timely and relevant, as technology leaders are under increasing pressure to match tech giants and unicorns on digital innovation and wrestle the competitive advantage from the hands of a few companies. In this episode, Mik shares how to shift the management approach in digital portfolios from a project to a product-based model. Debbie and Mik also address the importance of combining systems data with survey data in order to provide additional insights into the adoption curve of value stream management. Key discussions include: The 2023 Project to Product State of the Industry Report The seven dimensions of change required for a product operating model Product Management Maturity Insights from the 2021 State of Value Stream Management Report The Journey from Product Experimentation to Operationalization Survey Responses and System Data on Product Operating Model Transformations Autonomy and Dependencies for High Performance Teams The Benefits of Value Management for Software Development Teams Implementing Build and Run Teams for Software at Scale The Importance of Backlog Management and Prioritization in Product Management Creating an Effective Product Management Function: Strategies for Success Exploring the Benefits of Flow Metrics for Improved Efficiency and Time to Market Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.planview.com Additional Resources: Download the 2023 Project to Product State of the Industry Report and connect with Debbie Portfolio SAFe Dean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2 MarTech Dave West - podcast episode Learn more and join the Flow Framework Community here For more information on the 2023 Project to Product State of the Industry Report, go here: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/mik-kersten-interview

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Mark Fields, Senior Advisor to TPG Capital, a member of Planview's board of directors, and former CEO of Ford Motor Company. Mark has presided over three decades of strategic and digital transformations at global businesses and shares how he consistently succeeded with a focus on product. He discusses the value of possessing agility, a unified vision, and a rallying cry as a business to create a product that delivers more value and potentially diverts a company off more common value streams. In this episode, Mik and Mark also discuss drive-by-wire and how a point of view on what the future is, creates a demand for businesses to create organizational structure that can support strategy. Key discussions include: Early steps in Mark’s career Turning Mazda around in Japan Functional divides between business, technology, and operations Focusing on product is how you get customers Unifying vision and having a rallying cry in a business Turning products into platforms Diverting off common platforms to deliver customer missions ECUs in vehicles and the cost AWS and Azure bills for organizations Ford’s Mach-E Digital companies Mark is on the board of and how he is helping them thrive Learnings and agility Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com Additional Resources: Connect with Mark Portfolio SAFe Dean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2 MarTech Dave West - podcast episode Scrum Studio Greenfield project Skunkworks Bimodal IT Agile Release Train Mik + One Podcast Episode 20: Justin Watts For more information about Mark Fields and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/mark-fields/

Joining Mik on this episode of Mik + One is Steve Berez, advisory partner at Bain & Company and co-author of Doing Agile Right, Transformation Without Chaos. In this episode, Mik and Steve discuss: Insights into Steve’s 30+ year journey developing Bain’s technology practice Real examples of implementing agile practices and how to do it right How to get buy-in from Finance teams and demonstrate the value of a capacity-based mindset Strategies organizations can take to realize Agile benefits more quickly How Doing Agile Right can improve the business technology dialogue Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne www.tasktop.com Additional Resources: Connect with Steve Doing Agile Right Dean Leffingwell on the Mik + One Podcast: Part 1, Part 2 For more information about Steve Berez and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/steve-berez/

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Sejal Amin, current Chief Product and Technology Officer for Khoros, where she leads global product development teams to build great experiences for customers.In this episode, Mik and Sejal discuss a wide range of topics around continuous improvement, team health, organizational design, and flow. Key discussions include: Lessons Sejal learned from making the shift from project to product and barriers to overcome when making that shift The importance of team culture and emphasizing the health of the team Strategies to accelerate and make lasting organizational changes that focus on outcomes; including an example of a structure and data-driven environment in which teams can thrive Proven tools that increase team performance to effectively work around data and flow Structuring a product and team hierarchy that is conducive to a successful project to product transformation that enables continuous learning, improvement and innovation Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review.Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOnewww.tasktop.com

In this episode of Mik + One, Mik is joined by Darrell Fernandes, Head of Product Technology at TIAA, a Fortune 100 financial services organization that is the leading provider of financial services in the academic, research, medical, cultural and governmental fields. In this episode, Mik and Darrell discuss themes around driving organizational improvement and customer value, as well as other topics including: The five key accountabilities that all IT product managers should consider when thinking about how an IT product fits within the market Insights into successfully building out Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) that align with the business outcomes and deliver customer value Organizing cross-functional Agile Release Trains (ARTs) as capabilities and guidance for building them into the business and technology roadmap Operationalizing at a business level and advice on educating leadership and business counterparts when getting buy-in Recognizing success and building incentives that strengthen how the teams operate to become more innovative, efficient and value-focused Advice on how to approach and introduce Flow within the organization to deliver greater business value Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOnewww.tasktop.com For more information about Darrell Fernandes and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/darrell-fernandes/

To kick off the first episode of 2022, Mik is joined by two guests from Bank of New Zealand: Paul Littlefair, Chief Technology Officer, and BMK Lakshminarayanan, Value Stream Architect. In this episode, Mik, Paul and BMK delve into how Bank of New Zealand has been applying the shift from Project to Product and Flow Metrics, and other key topics including: Insight into how Bank of New Zealand’s transformation journey started, and the goals they first set out to achieve The importance of investing in continuous improvement, and rewarding for improvement and not just output Getting leadership buy-in, and why reporting the developer experience at the board level is crucial to enabling flow and visibility Introducing education around flow at all levels to create continuous learning across the organization, and insight into how Bank of New Zealand has executed this How tenacity, pivoting and starting today has brought a large enterprise organization like Bank of New Zealand on a great trajectory to getting things deployed, and how they’ve adapted their learnings at scale Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOnewww.tasktop.com For more information about Paul Littlefair and BMK Lakshminarayanan and to view the full list of resources featured in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/bank-of-new-zealand/

We’re delighted to welcome back Leffingwell, Co-founder and Chief Methodologist at Scaled Agile. Dean is an entrepreneur and software development methodologist best known for creating SAFe®, the most widely used framework for business Agility. In this episode, Mik and Dean focus on practices and behaviors of high-performing teams, digging into their own experiences on what makes teams thrive. Additional topics include: Dean’s learnings on what he has seen with large transformations using SAFe Insight into how and why the Flow Metrics were incorporated into SAFe 5.1 The importance of predictability in the enterprise The evolution of the Scrum Master role Measuring the system and outcomes, the different levels of team metrics, and who owns the Flow competency, outcomes and improvements of those metrics What makes a high performing team in 2021 and what Dean’s predictions on how this may look in 2025 Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOnewww.tasktop.com For more information about Dean Leffingwell and to view the full list of resources featured in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/dean-leffingwell-2/

In this episode, Mik is joined by Dave Snowden, CSO & Founder of Cognitive Edge and Director of the Cynefin Center. In this episode, Mik and Dave talk about the development of Cynefin, a framework for decision making, and other key topics including: The Cynefin framework and some of the existing methodologies and techniques that have been developed Examples of things that have gone in the wrong direction as a result of not understanding some of the first principles The best practices for technology leaders to identify and thrive through chaotic events or chaotic environments Guidance on how to take aspects of each framework and put them together in different combinations Advice on how to approach the Cynefin framework at various levels of leadership Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOnewww.tasktop.com For more information about Dave Snowden and to view the full list of resources featured in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://projecttoproduct.org/podcast/dave-snowden/