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- Per-Episode Audience
Est. listeners per new episode within ~30 days
1,001 - 10,000 - Monthly Reach
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5,001 - 25,000 - Active Followers
Loyal subscribers who consistently listen
501 - 5,000
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On the show
Recent episodes
Cake in a box
Apr 28, 2026
1h 04m 44s
Forward not back
Feb 24, 2026
1h 01m 35s
Four countries or a thousand?
Feb 17, 2026
53m 33s
The two wolves
Feb 11, 2026
1h 03m 55s
What if you could start your own internet?
Feb 4, 2026
47m 22s
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| Date | Episode | Description | Length | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 4/28/26 |  Cake in a box | We are back. Not yet in our usual weekly cadence (that resumes after the summer), but back for an episode and an overdue catchup after the longest gap we've had in over a year.Josh, ever the jetsetter, talks about being part of the Whitney Biennial and Venice Biennale and a 4:30am call with the European Parliament.Yancey, ever the striver, talks about the latest on Artist Corporations and the path ahead, as well as all things DFOS. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 1h 04m 44s | ||||||
| 2/24/26 |  Forward not back | In the finale of season 02 of New Creative Era, Josh and Yancey take stock of everything we've learned across 12 episodes exploring dark forests, private online communities, and the forces shaping culture online and beyond.We trace the genealogy of the web — from Web2's gatekeeping revolution to the attention economy to the subscription era's rebundling — and arrive at the present moment, where people are retreating into private spaces to build something new. We both share a list of what we hope for and fear from a dark forest era: sustainable creative ecosystems, the return of editorial vision, new organizational structures, and a more sincere internet — alongside the risks of digital country clubs, culture wars on steroids, rent-extracting platforms, and the same extractive patterns repeating themselves. It's not nostalgic. It's a path forward. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 1h 01m 35s | ||||||
| 2/17/26 |  Four countries or a thousand? | Back with part two of our special AMA episodes fielding questions from our NCE DFOS space. This episode covers everything from nationalism to Section 230 to open source software and everything in between. How far will the dark forest take us? Listen in as we debate and discuss IRL. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 53m 33s | ||||||
| 2/11/26 |  The two wolves | This week Josh and Yancey sit down in the same room for the first time to answer questions from 250+ people who found their way down the rabbit hole into the New Creative Era DFOS (link here 🤫) after last week’s audio easter egg. In week one there have been more than 900 chats and an organic book club already started.In this episode, we answer five questions from community members covering community governance, paywalled vs. free spaces, the real source of enshittification, and even how much it costs to run Metalabel. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 1h 03m 55s | ||||||
| 2/4/26 |  What if you could start your own internet? | This season of New Creative Era, we’ve been exploring the idea of dark forests. This week we’re exploring one in reality. Together.Listen in as Josh and Yancey give the first-ever tour of Dark Forest OS, a new Metalabel release that creates shared private internets.If you listen closely, you just might hear the breadcrumbs to a new world. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 47m 22s | ||||||
| 1/27/26 |  The internet has been building to this | In this episode, Josh takes listeners through the concept of teleology: the idea that tools inevitably drift toward outcomes embedded in their design, regardless of intent. What does this say about platform technology, political organizing, and competing visions for the private internet?Drawing on Benjamin Bratton’s “The Stack,” the conversation examines how cloud platforms are assuming functions once reserved for nation-states, pointing toward what some call “network states.” But whose network state? There’s a sharp line between two visions: one built on social democracy with private cultural spaces flourishing on top, and another where gutted welfare states force people into resource-sharing enclaves surveilled by Palantir and organized through Urbit.Are we heading towards one or the other? Or both? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 50m 46s | ||||||
| 1/20/26 |  The politics of withdrawal | Are dark forests just retreat?Adam Curtis documented how 1970s communes and EST taught people to pursue happiness within themselves rather than pursuing a better society. Are dark forests the same trap?James C. Scott’s work on the “hidden transcript” offers a different frame. Private spaces aren’t just where people hide, they’re where shared understanding forms, where you say what can’t be said publicly. Is dark foresting irresponsible or the product of our times? Listen in as we explore. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 30m 03s | ||||||
| 1/13/26 |  Ingroups and outgroups | Is curation actually about exclusion? In this episode, Josh and Yancey explore one of the most uncomfortable questions in creative communities: what it means to draw boundaries around who belongs and who doesn’t. Web2’s promise of open platforms and the death of gatekeeping hasn’t led to creative liberation — it’s produced attention economies driven by sensationalism and the collapse of shared values. What does a world where values are protected and explicitly shared look like? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 34m 14s | ||||||
| 12/17/25 |  Dark forests and antimemetics | A key fact of dark forests: they don’t want to be seen. Dark forests are spaces hidden from public view where outside eyes are not welcome.Why is this the case? And what can we observe about spaces like this?In this week’s episode of New Creative Era, we connect the idea of “antimemetics” — ideas that are intentionally hard to share and see — with dark forests. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 31m 21s | ||||||
| 12/10/25 |  Do dark forests live forever? | This week on New Creative Era, Josh and Yancey explore the lifecycles of Dark Forest spaces. How do they start? How do they mature? How do they die? Do they die? Listen in to hear how our micro personal experiences and macro group dynamics collide. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 40m 00s | ||||||
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| 12/3/25 |  The philosophy of dark forests | This week on New Creative Era we dive deeper into the world of dark forests and the underlying philosophies and belief systems behind their existence.How should we feel about dark forests? Are they places of threat or respite? Are they spaces of retreat or infrastructure for dissent? Are they inherently revolutionary and counter-hegemonic or are they potential tools for oppression, too? Listen in as we touch on the many ideas and beliefs that shape dark forests and why we gather in them. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 32m 34s | ||||||
| 11/26/25 |  The economics of the dark forest | This week in New Creative Era we dive into how exactly Dark Forest spaces support themselves, what it costs to run one, and all the implications of online-native proto-institutions that can create their own economics, currencies, and even tax systems. Why is this happening and where will it lead? After the usual s**t-talking, Josh and Yancey dig in. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 43m 06s | ||||||
| 11/18/25 |  What's a Dark Forest? | This season on New Creative Era, we’re diving into the world of Dark Forests. But what exactly is a Dark Forest? What’s the origin of the term, and what does it describe? In this episode, Josh and Yancey walk through what a Dark Forest is and why they’re increasingly central to not just our digital lives, but society at large. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 34m 09s | ||||||
| 11/14/25 |  The return | You thought it was over. But we’re so back.Welcome to a new season and focus for New Creative Era.This year we’re diving deep into the world of dark forests: private online spaces hidden from outside view. Why do Dark Forests exist? What goes on in them? What are their economics? What are their philosophies? We’ll be exploring all of this, and much more. But first, we have a lot to catch up on. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 33m 29s | ||||||
| 6/24/25 |  Artist Corporations: new podcast and early traction | Last week our TED Talk introduced Artist Corporations (A-Corps) — a legal and economic structure for creative work. So far there have been:* 200k+ views of the TED video * 600+ artists and creators joining the waitlistListenOn a special episode of New Creative Era (embedded above), Josh Citarella grills me on the nuts and bolts:* How A-Corps would work* What doesn’t work about the status quo* What solo practitioners would gain on day onePlay the episode above.Help us shape the lawYour challenges and desires will help shape the law we take to legislators. Support this work by sharing more about your own practices here:Squads paving the wayWhile we work towards manifesting Artist Corporations, it’s important to recognize the squads, groups, and artists out there doing the work right now.Just in our universe there is:* Concept — An ironic network state collective that released a sold out zine earlier this year.* Do Not Research — A collective Discord that drops work and publishes material together.* Elysian Collective — Writers pooling reach and profit around themed anthologies.* Future Commerce Press — A new media publishing empire releasing work across formats.* Hard Art — A collective of artists across disciplines led by Brian Eno.* Network Archives — Dozens of musicians come together to share their experiences releasing work online.* Other Internet — One of the most influential web-based collectives of the past decade.* Play — An award-winning food-themed, LGBTQ+ zine and collective.* Serving the People — A global creative network.* The Dark Forest Collective — Sixteen internet writers who collectively publish work and share profits together.* TIAT — An SF-based new media + tech collective.* Underground Art and Design — An art + tech collective in Brooklyn.* Wondaland — A creative collective led by Janelle Monae.* Worst Generation — A hip-hop and digital collective out of South Carolina.These are all collections of people releasing work under a shared umbrella, using splits and shared economics to distribute the rewards.This path is available to any creative person right now. Artist Corporations will let those groups go even farther together.Join the waitlistWant the A badge the moment filings open? Your early interest will help us make the case to lawmakers:Questions?What do you want to know?Thoughts? Questions? Leave a comment and let’s chat. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 51m 05s | ||||||
| 5/13/25 |  Why talk about the creative life? | This week marks the final episode of the first season of New Creative Era, as well as the release of a new book that collects all our conversations into printed form: On the Creative Life: Conversations Towards a New Creative Era.In this episode, Josh and Yancey discuss why even have conversations like ours? What is this moment in our collective creative journey?Though this is the last episode of this season, we’re interested in continuing these conversations. Want more New Creative Era? Let us know by picking up a copy of the book, or by reaching out: hello@metalabel.com.Peace and love, y’all. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 30m 55s | ||||||
| 4/28/25 |  Seven things we want out of a new creative era | In the penultimate episode of the first season of New Creative Era, Josh and Yancey each come to the table with their list of seven things they most want in a new status quo.These are our answers. What about yours? What do you want in a New Creative Era? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 37m 40s | ||||||
| 4/21/25 |  What we wish we knew then | What lessons do we keep with us from our creative journeys so far?This week Josh and Yancey turn back the clock and take turns sharing seven things they know now but wish they knew then. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 33m 03s | ||||||
| 4/15/25 |  How to develop a creative career | What does it mean to build a creative life — especially when the rules keep changing?In this episode, Josh and Yancey reflect on the nonlinear paths of creative careers, from publishing forgotten essays that suddenly go viral to jumping formats, industries, and identities. We talk about true norths, timestamping your work, outsider paths, and the strange long game where your weirdest traits become your biggest strengths.This is an episode about navigating the shifting terrain of creative work — and what it really takes to find your way. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 28m 13s | ||||||
| 4/8/25 |  Is there such a thing as artist-format fit? | This week Josh and Yancey dive into the question of formats. How do we as artists find the right format for our work? What if we work well in one format but not another? Is there such a thing as artist-format fit?Listen in as we discuss. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 29m 04s | ||||||
| 4/1/25 |  Creative economic case studies (with actual numbers!) | Many creative conversations are more ethereal and emotional. What a work references, what it feels like to experience it.In this week’s episode of New Creative Era, we do the opposite and deal strictly with the numbers. How much does it cost to print a book, to run a community, to make and produce work? How much does someone make? How do those economics actually work out?Josh and Yancey walk through the economic structures of two of their own projects: Do Not Research and the Dark Forest Collective. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 29m 28s | ||||||
| 3/25/25 |  How to decide where to invest your creative time | In this week’s episode of New Creative Era, we answer a listener question. Jamie Reddington (Sound of Fractures) writes:“Creators struggle to choose a place to focus on — it would be good to hear from someone like Josh or you how you make the combination of platforms out side of traditional social media ones work, what you use them for. So for Josh for example: patreon, Substack, Metalabel — I think for me for example I’m looking at Patreon, because although Substack has been a good step I find people more likely to pay for information there. While patreon is more of an established language normal people understand. The fear is… not more platform 😭😩 how do you provide enough value to make these things work?”Listen in an as Josh and Yancey spend thirty minutes discussing where, how, and when we choose to post our work and why. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 32m 58s | ||||||
| 3/19/25 |  Labels: creative support structures of the past and future? | Labels: the out-dated horse-and-buggy of the cultural sphere, or a still-underexplored structure that could lead to greater resource sharing and collective liberation among creative people ?In this episode of New Creative Era, Josh and Yancey talk through the idea of labels. What were they before? What are they now? How are they being reimagined as new tools of the future?Listen to Josh and Yancey explore. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 26m 12s | ||||||
| 3/12/25 |  How do you decide what platforms to use? | This week on New Creative Era, Josh and Yancey open up the topic of platforms. Are they good? Are they bad? What does it mean to depend on one? What are the risks and what are the upsides? We talk through our personal experiences posting work on platforms, the political and economic theories behind them, and how platforms themselves see the world. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 30m 01s | ||||||
| 3/4/25 |  Why collaboration should feel like a fun conspiracy | This week in New Creative Era with Josh and Yancey, we dive into the topic of collaboration. How have we found ourselves in collaborative projects? What went well? What didn’t? Tune in for a deep and wide-ranging conversation that covers everything from emotions to economics to breakups to logistics. Thanks for listening and subscribing! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit metalabel.substack.com | 32m 24s | ||||||
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Chart Positions
2 placements across 2 markets.
Chart Positions
2 placements across 2 markets.