Off-Trail Learning

Guest host Zen Zenith returns to interview Blake about his obsession with adventure. What exactly makes an adventure? How is adventure connected to self-directed learning? Is adventure just for privileged people? Why can’t Blake just settle down and lead a normal life? How do Unschool Adventures trips create a sense of adventure for both teens and trip leaders? Does adventure become harder as one grows older? Does Blake even have a retirement plan?! And what comes next? Read Blake’s “Notes on Adventure” here: https://blakeboles.substack.com Zen Zenith is a grown unschooler, musician, guitar teacher, podcaster, and Not Back to School Camp alumnus. Follow Zen on Twitter at @zenzenith.

Liam Nilsen (https://liam.media) is a designer and educator based in Åårhus, Denmark. He’s a former member of the LEGO Idea Studio, the founder of an Agile Learning Center, and a life-long unschooler who didn’t start reading until age 9 — at which point he fell in love with the written word. Liam and I discuss our lives as readers, including the books that have changed our lives, how we discover new things to read, books vs. articles vs. newspapers vs. social media, old favorites that now embarrass us, writing inside books, and keeping books vs. giving them away. We also discuss the virtues of higher education and self-directed learning programs that promote reading (or not).

Takeru “TK” Nagayoshi was an AP English and Research teacher for seven years. In 2020 he was named Massachusetts Teacher of the Year—yet after winning the award, he decided to leave the classroom in 2021. We discuss Takeru’s early school experiences in Japan and New Jersey, how he become an educator through Teach For America, the daily realities of teaching in a “turnaround school,” the amazing AP classes he offered, the Teacher of the Year nomination, pandemic burnout, and the decision to leave his teaching position. We also speak more broadly about the purpose of education, schooling’s connection to societal inequities, why most reform movements don’t speak to TK, how he aligns (and doesn’t) with John Taylor Gatto’s critiques, how Generation Z is disillusioned by adult’s failure to solve collective action problems, and what kind of changes it would take to bring him back to the classroom. Takeru now works at Panorama Education (panoramaed.com) where he leads professional learning events that reach an audience of over 10,000. An education commentator and facilitator, he also leads workshops on education policy, social-emotional learning, DEI, and curriculum at the high school level. Find TK on Twitter (@tk_nagayoshi) and learn more with the following links: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/764/schools-out-forever https://www.wbur.org/radioboston/2021/10/25/massachusetts-teacher-burn-out https://commonwealthmagazine.org/opinion/as-a-teacher-i-think-its-time-to-rethink-education-accountability/

Nate Singer is the Managing Director of Mission Holdings, a father of two, and the guy who first got me interested in alternative education. We discuss his early struggles at boarding school, getting rejected to UC Berkeley (but successfully appealing the decision), working hard as a math major, second-guessing conventional teaching methods, creating a class about educational television (where he and I met), John Taylor Gatto, and encouraging Berkeley students to question mainstream pedagogy. After college Nate moved into the world of finance in a quest for broader impact and understanding the forces underpinning the school system. He talks about how he applied the self-directed learning ethos to investing, the importance of reaching out to strangers, why education is about “learning how to form and achieve a vision,” the irreplaceable value of entrepreneurial experiments, why to start a literal lemonade stand, and the challenges of raising kids in the San Francisco Bay Area. Nate's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nate-singer-0078952/ Recorded on Nov 22, 2021, in Lisbon, Portugal.

Seth Frey (enfascination.com) is a professor of Communication at UC Davis who focuses on the science of self-governance. We discuss our shared history in the Berkeley Student Cooperatives, Seth’s experience living in communities ranging from 4 to 400 members, his research on Minecraft and World of Warcraft communities, why benevolent dictators are surprisingly common, why children (and adults!) are surprisingly bad at self-governance, the Lord of the Flies stereotype, and how we might grant young people more genuine opportunities to manage their own worlds. Learn more about the Unschool Adventures “Eurotrip 2022” teen program at unschooladventures.com. Apply by February 12th! Read more about the boarding school boys who were shipwrecked off Tonga in 1965 and successfully self-governed here: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-of-the-flies-what-happened-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months

Nick Bergson-Shilcock is the CEO and co-founder of the Recurse Center (recurse.com), a self-directed and community-driven educational retreat for computer programmers. Nick describes his background as a lifelong unschooler (he’s the son of Peter Bergson, a recent podcast guest), as well as his early interest in gaming and programming and his transition into college, career, and Y Combinator (the startup incubator). We discuss how RC differs from “coding bootcamps,” who applies, who gets in, how the whole thing is funded, RC’s unique social rules (no well-actually’s, no feigning surprise, no back-seat driving, and no subtle -isms), and Nick’s evolving views on unschooling. Visit Nick’s personal website at https://nick.is/ Recorded on July 20, 2021.

While biking through the south of France, I met Lilli and Elena, two 19-year-old German women who are also on a cycling adventure. (We shared the same Couchsurfing host.) We discuss their bike trip, their path through formal education in Germany, why they’re taking a gap year, how they spend less than $10/day, how they stay safe, and what the trip has taught them so far. (Lilli and Elena have no website or social media -- kudos to them!)

Alfie Kohn (alfiekohn.org) is the author of fourteen books and a well-known advocate of progressive education. Mr. Kohn discusses the purpose behind his 30+ years of advocacy, his critique of “grit” and “growth mindset”, and his take on the classic progressive school models (Montessori/Waldorf/Reggio) as well as homeschooling, unschooling, and highly self-directed schools & centers. He expresses concern over the extreme varieties of self-directed education and argues for the vital role of teachers (and other actively-involved adults) in education. We end by identifying common ground between the self-directed and progressive education movements. The following articles are referenced in this interview: The Trouble with Pure Freedom (by Alfie Kohn): https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/trouble-pure-freedom/ The Progressive Teacher’s Role in the Classroom (by Alfie Kohn): https://www.alfiekohn.org/blogs/paradox/ Rewards Are Still Bad News (25 Years Later) (by Alfie Kohn): https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/rewards-25-years-later/ Differences Between Self-Directed and Progressive Education (by Peter Gray): https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201706/differences-between-self-directed-and-progressive-education

Peter Bergson is the co-founder of two self-directed learning centers in the Philadelphia area: Open Connections (openconnections.org) and Natural Creativity Center (naturalcreativity.org). We discuss Peter’s journey from creativity consultant to early childhood educator, his collaboration with John Holt, fighting for better homeschooling laws in the 80s, growing a tiny self-directed learning center in a bigger and better-funded one, the importance of “sense of belonging” for young people, and his attempt to bring his ideas to inner-city Philadelphia. Peter stars in the 2020 documentary “Unschooled” (unschooledthemovement.com), which I highly recommend. The new center that his children have started is Cupola Academy (cupolaacademy.org).

In this special two-part discussion, Pat Farenga and I discuss Harvard University’s ongoing 7-week conference, the “Post-Pandemic Future of Homeschooling.” This free online conference brings together researchers and academics in the field of homeschooling, and Pat and I are here to share what they’re talking about, the arguments they’re making, and what we think of all this. In this first episode we discuss weeks 1-4 of the conference: Should homeschooling laws change? Who is homeschooling today? Are homeschoolers prepared for life? And—are homeschoolers socially isolated? We get into some spicy discussions regarding homeschooling regulation, Harvard Law Professor Elizabeth Bartholet’s ideas for protecting vulnerable children, the nature and limits of academic research, and political factions within the homeschool movement. Look forward to part two coming out later this month! Patrick Farenga is the president and publisher of Growing Without Schooling magazine and the co-author (with John Holt) of Teach Your Own: The John Holt Book Of Homeschooling, which celebrates its 40th anniversary this year. Learn more about Pat and John at johnholtgws.com. Recordings of the Harvard conference are here: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/centers/taubman/programs-research/pepg/events/future-homeschooling More about the Connecticut study: https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/36-of-students-withdrawn-to-be-homeschooled-have-past-abuse-reports-connecticut-report-finds/

Olivia Barnes (blacklifeblueworld.wixsite.com/blbwofficialwebsite) has always had a somewhat unconventional education, but after a frustrating year at a well-regarded performing arts school, she decided to take the reins of her education. We discuss Olivia’s decision to spend her 10th grade year doing a hodgepodge of activities she called “self-design school”—including biology classes at a local university, online math, Spanish tutoring, and lots of swimming—what she’s doing now (despite the pandemic), what she would be doing if there were no pandemic, her concerns about college readiness, and three big questions that frame her ongoing self-education. Don’t miss Olivia’s YouTube channel (youtube.com/channel/UC-Nckrk9b4j_c74HrYK85GQ) and LinkedIn (linkedin.com/in/olivia-barnes-59617a200/). A few more details: The school that Olivia attended in 8th grade was The Saint Constantine School, her math class was artofproblemsolving.com, and make sure to google “vaquitas”—they are adorable. This interview was recorded on February 18th, 2021. Love this podcast? Buy Blake a coffee! https://ko-fi.com/blakeboles

Off-Trail Learning is on hiatus! In this brief personal update, I discuss my decision to go on sabbatical in 2021. Learn more at (newly redesigned) blakeboles.com.