Palaeo Jam

Carl Sagan once said "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". As it happens, that very same universe is the one that made possible the making of mammals. So, what are some of the essential ingredients and conditions that made the making of a mammal possible? In this episode of Palaeo Jam, host Michael Mills chats with Dr Peter Bishop, an Aussie abroad, currently engaged in palaeo research at Harvard University. Through his background in physics and mathematics Peter has applied biomechanical principles to understand extinct animals, particularly synapsids, which has led to some fascinating insights in to how to do just that- to make a mammal! Michael begins the discussion by asking Peter about his journey from an outback Queensland mega-fauna site where the two first met several years ago, while digging up giant, prehistoric kangaroos, extinct , to Harvard… You can find Peter’s work at… https://www.mcz.harvard.edu/people/peter-bishop https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=M5u3GysAAAAJ&utm Host Michael Mills can be found on Insta as The HeapsGood Guy at https://www.instagram.com/heapsgood/ On Bluesky at https://bsky.app/profile/heapsgood.bsky.social Palaeo Jam has its own Insta account at https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam/

What happens when you hurl the definitive biographer of palaeontology pioneer Mary Anning, and the writer of a musical about Mary Anning together? In this episode of Palaeo Jam, host and writer of musicals, Michael Mills, is joined by Mary Anning biographer Tom Sharpe to explore the life, science, and enduring legacy of Mary Anning, one of the most important figures in the history of palaeontology. Drawing on years of meticulous research, Tom paints a vivid picture of Mary Anning as not just a fossil collector, but a formidable scientific mind operating at the birth of palaeontology. We explore her groundbreaking discoveries including the first complete plesiosaur, her close (and often complicated) relationships with leading scientists of the day, and the steep barriers she faced as a working-class woman. Beyond the science, this episode digs into the human story of Mary, what she might have been like to meet, personal losses, precarious finances, unanswered questions about her private life, and how myth, film, and modern retellings have sometimes distorted her legacy. The conversation closes by connecting Mary’s enduring legacy to contemporary creative work, including the development “A Curious Thing”, a new musical inspired by her life, making this episode a must-listen for anyone interested in deep time, women in science, and how we tell history responsibly and creatively. This is the first ever episode of Palaeo Jam to ever exceed the strict time limit of 30 minutes per episode, because, well… Michael and Tom decided to just keep talking! We can confirm, that once the mics were turned off, the conversation about this remarkable woman continued! Tom’s book “The Fossil Woman- A Life of Mary Anning” is the most deeply researched book on her life and legacy. It is available through most book stores. Tom regularly shares moments in Mary’s life on BlueSky at https://bsky.app/profile/tomsharperocks.bsky.social @tomsharperocks.bsky.social You can follow Michael’s telling of Mary’s story through the various links at… https://linktr.ee/TheseCuriousThings This link includes a booking link to the 2026 Adelaide Fringe show "A Curious Thing- The Story of Mary Anning." You can find Michael on Blue Sky at https://bsky.app/profile/heapsgood.bsky.social To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity At Palaeo Jam, we have an Instagram account at https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam

In season 2 of Palaeo Jam, host Michael Mills chatted with Jake Kotevski about the identification of the oldest-known Megaraptorid skull fragment, found on an Eastern Victorian beach in Australia, and what that unique and important fragment might tell us. In this episode, Michael again chats with Jake to find out if any more fossils have been discovered, and if we’ve learnt anything new since then. Spoiler alert- A big YES! They chat about some fascinating new discoveries and with that, what those discoveries might tell us abut the story of Australian Theropods. At least, what we know of that story, so far! Along the way, they also chat about Nanotyranous/T.rex, with Jake giving his view on where things now sit. This is our 50th episode and we could not think of a better topic to celebrate that milestone than theropods from the Land Down Under! This is Jake’s second appearance on Palaeo Jam. His first was in Season 2, “Theropods Down Under”… https://palaeojam.podbean.com/e/theropods-down-under/ Be sure to check out the following paper that gives a new sense of theropod diversity from Early Cretaceous Australia thata now includes: megaraptorids, an unenlagiine, and for the first time, carcharodontosaurians… https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02724634.2024.2441903 To read the paper, “A megaraptorid (Dinosauria: Theropoda) frontal from the upper Strzelecki Group (Lower Cretaceous) of Victoria, Australia”, head to… https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195667123002975#sec7 You can find Jake on Twitter at @Dinoman_Jake https://twitter.com/Dinoman_Jake And on Instagram at @theropods_down_under https://www.instagram.com/theropods_down_under/ The Evans EvoMorph Lab where Jake is based for his PhD is on Twitter at @EvansEvoMorph https://twitter.com/evansevomorph For information on visiting the Dinosaur Dreaming site mentioned in the podcast, head to… https://www.visitgippsland.com.au/do-and-see/arts-culture-and-heritage/historical-towns-attractions/dinosaur-dreaming And also Bunurong Coast Education at http://sgcs.org.au/programs.php You can find Michael on Blue Sky at https://bsky.app/profile/heapsgood.bsky.social To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity At Palaeo Jam, we have an Instagram account at https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam

Adele Pentland (Curtin University) and Sally Hurst (Macquarie University), are both Superstars of STEM with extensive experience in public engagement and media communication. They are both palaeontologists, which we think gives them a bit of an advantage over some of the other sciences, since we’re the ones with dinosaurs! In a wide ranging conversation, host Michael Mills chats with Adele and Sally about why effective communication matters for the public understanding of ancient life Along the way, they discuss several successful outreach strategies, science heroes, and offer practical advice for scientists and educators looking to communicate their research more engagingly. This is the first in a series of episodes recorded during the 2025 CAVEPS Conference in vertebrate palaeontology at Flinders University in South Australia in November, 2025. You can find Adele’s podcast, “Pals in Palaeo” through the following link… https://linktr.ee/palsinpalaeo Be sure to follow the podcast on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/palsinpalaeo/ You can also head to the Pals in Palaeo website at https://palsinpalaeo.com/ Check out Sally’s website at https://www.sallyhurst.com.au And her Found a Fossil website at https://www.foundafossil.com/ Found a Fossil also has an Insta account at https://www.instagram.com/foundafossil And a Tik Tok account at https://www.instagram.com/foundafossil You can find Michael on Blue Sky at https://bsky.app/profile/heapsgood.bsky.social To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity At Palaeo Jam, we have an Instagram account at https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam

On Thursday October 9th, Dr Jim Gehling OA (Order of Australia) was awarded the Joseph Verco Medal by the Royal Society of South Australia for a remarkable life of research and public engagement in the field of palaeontology. Previous recipients have included Sir Douglas Mawson and Reg Sprigg. Palaeo Jam host Michael Mills is a long time friend of Jim, with Jim having been a central part of the South Australian Museum's work in the early days of the birth of Michael’s alter ego, singing palaeontologist Professor Flint. Michael notes in this podcast that the work he does as The Prof, is only possible because of the work of people like Jim. After attending the award ceremony, Michael and Jim decided to arrange a time to catch up and chat about Jim’s life and his research. This is just part of what was a delightful day of sharing memories with Michael, Jim, and wife Inara. Jim has led Ediacaran research in Australia, and the world, for the last 40 years, collaborating with all significant international experts and co-authoring publications on the Ediacara Biota in Australia, Canada, USA, UK, China, Russia, and Namibia. He has also been intimately involved on the excavation and research of the early Cambrian Emu Bay Shale of Kangaroo Island. The Emu Bay Shale is the only Konservat-Lagerstätte in the Southern Hemisphere and is often mentioned side by side with the likes of the Burgess Shale in British Columbia. Jim’s research record is extensive. You can find links to some of his research on google scholar at https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=kMfMg40AAAAJ&hl=en Or on Research Gate at… https://www.researchgate.net/profile/James-Gehling Last year, inspired by Jim’s research on the Ediacarans and early Cambrians, Michael's Professor Flint released an album of songs, for children titled “Creatures of the Slime”. You can find the album on all main platforms via the following link… https://linktr.ee/ProfessorFlint You can follow Michael on Bluesky at https://bsky.app/profile/heapsgood.bsky.social And his HeapsGood Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/HeapsGoodProductions

And then what? It tuned in to this very episode of Palaeo Jam! Dr Heather Robinson and Professor John Long are the authors of two important books, “Beyond the Books: Culture, value and why libraries matter.” and “The Secret History of Sharks: The Rise of the Ocean's Most Fearsome Predators”, respectively. Heather and John are also work partners and life partners, and in this episode of Palaeo Jam we explore the essence of each of their very different books, while attempting to find common ground. Along the way we ask, why do libraries matter? Indeed, why do cultural institutions matter? And why do sharks matter? In researching each of the books, what was the most surprising thing you discovered about libraries and sharks? And why are both of these books an important read, right now? Because, yes. They are! You can find both books on-line, and at all good bookstores. John’s paleontological CV is vast! A look through profile on The Conversation at https://theconversation.com/profiles/john-long-98402 will give you a small insight into John’s remarkable body of work. Heather also has an extensive profile on The Conversation, at https://theconversation.com/profiles/heather-l-robinson-155358 Heather and John have created Lifecyle Productions as an instrument to work on a multitude of projects. Their company website is… https://lifecycleproductions.com.au/, and contains information about what they’re working towards, and about the skills they each bring. We first chatted with Heather and John in episode 3 of season 1 titled "A Marriage of Art and Science" in which amongst other things, we explored the importance of their art/science collaborations, and the things they each bring to their working partnership, and delved into some of the delightful experiences that their working on things together as a married couple has brought them. Michael and John have collaborated creatively through the creation of the Professor Flint song about the WA fossil emblem, the Gogo Fish. With lyrics by John, and music by Michael, the song features on the Professor Flint album, “Dinosaurs Amongst Us!”… The Gogo Fish song on Spotify

Just over 12 months ago, as part of National Science Week, we spoke with Eleanor Beidatsch, in an episode titled, “A Journey into accessibility: Digging for fossils from a wheelchair.” Since that episode, Eleanor has graduated from the University of New England with First Class Honours, been awarded the $130,000 #ElevateSTEM scholarship for postgraduate research from the Australian Academy of Technological Sciences and Engineering, and has started her Masters! As we noted in the notes to last year’s episode, “as a nine year old, Eleanor dreamed of being a palaeontologist, but always presumed her advanced physical disability, and use of a wheelchair would make “digging about in the dirt for fossils” impossible.” In this episode of Palaeo Jam host Michael Mills chats with Eleanor about another remarkable 12 months, and about what lies ahead as she continues her brilliant journey in the world of palaeontology, and follows her fascination with prehistoric velvet worms! Check out this story from the ABC about Eleanor’s graduation… https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-26/eleanor-beidatsch-graduates-first-class-honours-geoscience/103839886 Here’s a link to last year’s episode with Eleanor… https://palaeojam.podbean.com/e/a-journey-into-accessibility-digging-for-fossils-from-a-wheelchair/ Check out this video from Eleanor’s YouTube channel of her remarkable adventure in 2016, to a paleontological dig in the opal rich desert town of Lightning Ridge, New South Wales… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTGxIR_yaNo Here’s a story about Eleanor’s journey on the University of New England’s website… https://www.une.edu.au/connect/news/2022/09/unearthing-discrimination-in-science Along with studying palaeontology, Eleanor is a disability rights journalist, and writes for the ABC… https://www.abc.net.au/news/eleanor-beidatsch/101651018 Here’s a link to the Elevate STEM website… https://www.atse.org.au/what-we-do/pathways-into-through-stem/elevate/ You can find Eleanor on Instagram at… https://www.instagram.com/eleanor.beidatsch/ And on Twitter at… https://twitter.com/EBeidatsch Here’s a link to Eleanor’s blog Accessible 4 Me… https://accessible4me.wordpress.com/ For more information on the research being undertaken by the team at University of New England’s Palaeoscience Research Centre, head to https://www.une.edu.au/research/research-centres-institutes/palaeoscience-research-centre You can find Michael at @heapsgood https://twitter.com/Heapsgood To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity At Palaeo Jam, we now have an Instagram account at https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam

In this episode of Palaeo Jam, host Michael Mills begins the conversation with Dr Natalia Jagielska, Engagement & Collections Curator at the Lyme Regis Museum by chatting about palaeontology pioneer Mary Anning, and what it means to be working in the very space Mary’s home in Lyme Regis once occupied. As the conversation continues, we learn about the first pterosaur ever found in Scotland, Dearc sgiathanach, and what it tells us about pterosaur evolution. In so doing, we reflect on the unique connection between Natalia and Mary, given Mary’s discovery of the first known pterosaur in England, Dimorphodon macronyx. The two also discuss a subject central to both Natalia and Michael’s professional working life, the connection between art and science. This is the first episode of Palaeo Jam to feature a guest from beyond the shores of Australia. May there be many more! Head to Natalia’s website to see links to her research, public outreach, and awesome palaeo art… https://natalia-jagielska.weebly.com/ You can find Natalia on Twitter at… @wrycritic https://x.com/WryCritic To access the original paper, authored by Natalia et al on the Scottish pterosaur Dearc sgiathanach, head to… https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098222200135X For links to the Lyme Regis Museum, check out… https://linktr.ee/lymemuseum There’s a song about pterosaurs on the Professor Flint/Gemma Dandie album, “These Curious Things”, and you can watch a video of the song here… https://youtu.be/_ZJzRVO8ZK4?si=w2r39cTFVmiRijTo You can find links to the album, and more information about Mary Anning, here… https://linktr.ee/thesecuriousthings Michael occasionally pops in to the strange place that is Twitter at @heapsgood https://twitter.com/Heapsgood To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity At Palaeo Jam, we now have an Instagram account at https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam This is the second episode in Season 3 in which pterosaurs feature. Check out Episode 3 in which Michael chats with vertebrate Palaeontologist and expert in Australian pterosaurs Adele Pentland of the “Pals in Palaeo” podcast about Australian pterosaurs, about each of their podcasts, and about science heroes… https://palaeojam.podbean.com/e/me-and-my-palaeo-pal/

In 1990, Mike Cleland was fossicking around a coastal region of the state of Victoria in Australia, when he came across a fossil discovery that was to change his life. The fossil he discovered was to become known as Koolasuchus cleelandi, and in 2022, Koolasuchus to became the state’s official fossil emblem, following a public vote. In this episode of Palaeo Jam, host Michael Mills chats with Mike, and Lesley Kool, after whom the first part of Koolasuchus, was named, about this extraordinary, prehistoric amphibian. Along the way, we discover Lesley’s role in the discovery and understanding of this remarkable fossil, and what it is about this car sized amphibian that makes it such a worthy fossil emblem. For more information on the region where Koolasuchus was found, head to… http://dinosaurdreaming.monash.edu/ You can also check out the Dinosaur Dreaming blog at… http://dinodreaming.blogspot.com/ And find out more about the Victorian coastal dinosaur trail, here… https://engage.basscoast.vic.gov.au/dino You can find host Michael Mills on Twitter at @heapsgood https://twitter.com/Heapsgood To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity At Palaeo Jam, you can also follow our Instagram account at https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam

May 7th has come to be known as Australia’s National Dinosaur Day! A day in which Australians are being asked to celebrate the remarkable dinosaurs that once walked where we now walk. Or as we like to call them, the Dinosaurs Down Under! What is the significance of May 7th? And how did this date, in particular, become the day now known as Australia’s National Dinosaur Day? Phil Hore has worked in a lot of cool places, including the Smithsonian, the Field Museum and the Australian Dinosaur Museum! He’s also written lots, including as a regular writer for The Prehistoric Times. In this special edition of Palaeo Jam to celebrate Australia’s National Dinosaur Day, host Michael Mills chats with Phil about where the idea for the day came from, how it has grown in recent years, why Australian dinosaurs matter, and what his key role has been in making this a day to remember! You can find Australia’s National Dinosaur Day on Facebook at… https://www.facebook.com/Australiannationaldinosaurday If you’re ever in Rockhampton, be sure to check out Phil’s Time Safaris Walking Tours… https://www.timesafaris.com.au/ https://www.facebook.com/timesafaris Phil has been known to Tweet now and again at https://twitter.com/Phil_Hore Here’s a link to The Prehistoric Times magazine… https://pocketmags.com/au/prehistoric-times-magazine Michael Mills’ alter ego, singing palaeontologist Professor Flint, released a brand new version of the “Dinosaurs Down Under” album, earlier this year. You can find it, and other Prof Flint things, here… https://linktr.ee/ProfessorFlint You can find Michael at @heapsgood https://twitter.com/Heapsgood To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity At Palaeo Jam, we have an Instagram account at https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam

There’s something quite delightful about seeing the skeleton of a prehistoric animal move in a way that it might have moved when the bones were covered in flesh, and the animal was alive. Jack O Conner is a PhD candidate at Monash University, and that’s exactly what he's doing at the Evans EvoMorph Lab. In this episode of Palaeo Jam, host Michael Mills chats with Jack about how he came to be doing what he does, explores the process of creating the models, and what it’s like to see such creatures brought to life in this way. Such work, of course, fits well into the science communication field for which Michael has built a career, and both Michael and Jack discuss some of the important elements of science communication, and why it matters. You can find Jack’s models of Thylacoleo carnifex, Zygomaturus trilobus, Siderops kehli, and Perucetus colossus on Sketchfab at… https://skfb.ly/oPsJs We think it’s well worth checking out the models before you listen to the podcast if you can, or even while you’re listening to it. Be sure, too, to check out our episode on the Virtual Australian Museum of Palaeontology (VAMP), at https://palaeojam.podbean.com/e/vamp-it-up/ to hear about where some of the source material come from for Jack’s work. It is an absolutely brilliant resource. You can follow Jack O’Conner on Instagram at @jackodesign https://www.instagram.com/jackocdesign/ And follow Monash Science at @monash_science https://www.instagram.com/monash_science/ The Evans EvoMorph Lab is on Twitter at @EvansEvoMorph https://twitter.com/evansevomorph You can find Palaeo Jam host Michael Mills on Twitter at @heapsgood https://twitter.com/Heapsgood To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity On Instagram at @dinosauruniversity https://www.instagram.com/dinosauruniversity/ And on Twitter at @DinosaurUni https://twitter.com/DinosaurUni Palaeo Jam also now has its own Instagram account at @palaeo_jam https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam

The fossil record of Theropod dinosaurs in Australia is sparse, and our understanding of them is poor. In a recent publication of the first chapter of his PhD, PhD Candidate Jake Kotevski is on his way to changing that. In this episode of Palaeo Jam, host Michael Mills chats with Jake about the recent identification of the oldest-known Megaraptorid skull fragment, found on an Eastern Victorian beach in Australia, nearly 20 years ago. What does this unique and important fragment tell us about Australian Theropods and their place in the world? In just one of the concepts they discuss, it supports the theory that Megaraptorids originated in Australia. Tune in for more! To read the paper, “A megaraptorid (Dinosauria: Theropoda) frontal from the upper Strzelecki Group (Lower Cretaceous) of Victoria, Australia”, head to… https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195667123002975#sec7 You can find Jake on Twitter at @Dinoman_Jake https://twitter.com/Dinoman_Jake And on Instagram at @theropods_down_under https://www.instagram.com/theropods_down_under/ The Evans EvoMorph Lab where Jake is based for his PhD is on Twitter at @EvansEvoMorph https://twitter.com/evansevomorph For information on visiting the Dinosaur Dreaming site mentioned in the podcast, head to… https://www.visitgippsland.com.au/do-and-see/arts-culture-and-heritage/historical-towns-attractions/dinosaur-dreaming And also Bunurong Coast Education at http://sgcs.org.au/programs.php You can find Palaeo Jam host Michael Mills on Twitter at @heapsgood https://twitter.com/Heapsgood To connect with Dinosaur University on Facebook, follow us at https://www.facebook.com/DinosaurUniversity On Instagram at @dinosauruniversity https://www.instagram.com/dinosauruniversity/ And on Twitter at @DinosaurUni https://twitter.com/DinosaurUni Palaeo Jam also now has its own Instagram account at @palaeo_jam https://www.instagram.com/palaeo_jam