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Kelly has officially mastered the fine arts, so after a half year break, we're back! We'll have real episode coming up in a week or so, but for now we catch up on where we've been as Kelly talks about finishing her MFA and John talks about the World Cup and how England is definitely going to win it all for real this time.

Kelly is away, so our next new episode will be released in two weeks. This is a rerelease of an episode originally published on December 19th, 2023. But Scrooge was all the worse for this. It thrilled him with a vague uncertain horror, to know that behind the dusky shroud there were ghostly eyes intently fixed upon him, while he, though he stretched his own to the utmost, could see nothing but a spectral hand and one great heap of black. So Charles Dickens described Ebenezer Scrooge's encounter with the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come in his beloved 1843 classic A Christmas Carol. And while A Christmas Carol is best known as the endlessly-adapted and reimagined cornerstone of modern Christmas storytelling, it's also a freaky ghost story, and it turns out that, in Dickens' England, telling ghost stories at Christmas was a whole thing! There were, as it turns out, a lot of ghosts in Christmas past. Why did Victorians like themselves a spooky Christmas? And when did spookiness get replaced with mall Santas, Bing Crosby, and family church services? Is it too late to make Christmas spooky again? This week, Kelly and John talk to folklorists Sara Cleto and Brittany Warman, co-founders of the Carterhaugh School about lost Christmas traditions, winter hauntings, and what else you should read if you prefer ghastly specters to eggnog and Rudolph.

Dr. Vaughn Joy's new book, Selling Out Santa, explores the role Christmas movies played in shaping American culture (and vice-versa) during the Cold War. Via a case study on Hollywood Christmas films released between 1946 and 1961, Selling Out Santa offers an examination of political pressures on Hollywood in the post-war period and the cultural ramifications of federal involvement in the motion picture industry. As the House Committee on Un-American Activities opened hearings in 1947 and the FBI gathered reports on potential communist subversion in Frank Capra’s Christmas classic It’s a Wonderful Life (1946), Hollywood executives began to bend to the socially conservative pressures of this post-war moment. In this episode, Kelly and John talk to Vaughn about the genesis of her book and the ways in which Christmas movies have evolved into the Hallmark rom-coms we have all come to know and love-or-hate today. You can find Vaughn on Bluesky @gvaughnjoy

It's been a heck of a week on the internet! Marjorie Taylor Greene went from MAGA darling to MAGA outcast and from Georgia Congresswoman to Soon-to-be-Former Georgie Congresswoman in record time. We look at her attempted redemption/resurrection story with a skeptical eye, muse on what this means for the future or MAGA. Plus - Silicon Valley is suddenly obsessed with the End Times and Peter Thiel is worried about the Antichrist, who, as it turns out, happens to probably be all the things Peter Thiel doesn't like! And the US Bishops push back against Trump while the Pope decrees the four best films and rocks the mic at a rave! Adam Willems: An ex-Intel CEO’s mission to build a Christian AI: ‘hasten the coming of Christ’s return’

1973's The Exorcist is a landmark film for any number of reasons (many of which we get into here). It's also a film Kelly had never seen, and a favorite of our friend Matthew J. Cressler. Matt talked to us about Catholic horror and The Exorcist two years ago, but we really wanted to dig into the film in detail, so here we are. The Exorcist is one of many examples of art imitating life imitating art. It both revived a certain kind of supernatural zeal in Catholicism while also exploring an underlying aversion to the same. While it's not always successful and doesn't necessarily hold the same shock value it once did, it also completely reimagined what a horror film could be and provided proof of concept that the public was ready to explore and challenge religious ideas in new and sometime shocking ways. And like a lot of other horror that has captured the cultural imagination throughout history, The Exorcist spilled over into the real world, giving rise to the idea that the film was cursed. And in the next episode, we'll take a closer look at its cultural and religious impact. Matt is on Bluesky @mjcressler

Due to some scheduling difficulties, we're pushing back this week's episode to next week and then going back-to-back Tuesdays. In the meantime, enjoy this episode from last Halloween with Kathleen M. Brown on the Salem Witch Trials _____________________________ The Salem Witch Trials may well be the single most notorious and iconic event of America's colonial period. Every Halloween, Salem, Massachusetts, hosts untold thousands of tourists who revel in the city's occult history and reputation as America's haunted capital of spookiness. But as well-known as the Salem Witch Trials are, they remain a hotbed of historical inaccuracy and misconception. So what exactly happened? How did a sleepy, growing Massachusetts town become the epicenter of witch hysteria? Did everyone go insane, or were the Salem Witch Trials perfectly consistent with the worldview of Salem's citizens. To help us clear this up, Kelly and John asked University of Pennsylvania history professor Kathleen M. Brown for her insights. Brown is a historian of gender and race in early America and the Atlantic World. Educated at Wesleyan University and the University of Wisconsin, Madison, she is author of Good Wives, Nasty Wenches, and Anxious Patriarchs: Gender, Race, and Power in Colonial Virginia (Chapel Hill, 1996), which won the Dunning Prize of the American Historical Association. Her latest, Undoing Slavery: Bodies, Race, and Rights in the Age of Abolition, was published in 2023.

Given recent events, we have decided not to release a new episode this week. Instead, given rising concerns about state retribution to political violence and the weaponization of law enforcement, we are re-releasing our conversation with Lerone A. Martin from February, in which he discusses his book The Gospel of J. Edgar Hoover. _________________________________________________________ This week, Kelly and John are joined by Lerone A. Martin to discuss his unfortunately timely and prescient book, The Gospel of J. Edgar Hoover: How the FBI Aided and Abetted the Rise of White Christian Nationalism. Martin is the Martin Luther King, Jr., Centennial Professor in Religious Studies, African & African American Studies, and The Nina C. Crocker Faculty Scholar. He also serves as the Director of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Research and Education Institute at Stanford University. He's is an award-winning author. The Gospel of J. Edgar Hoover was published in February 2023 by Princeton University Press. The book has garnered praise from numerous publications including The Nation, Foreign Affairs, The Guardian, Publisher’s Weekly, and History Today. In 2014 he published, Preaching on Wax: The Phonograph and the Making of Modern African American Religion. That book received the 2015 first book award by the American Society of Church History. His commentary and writing have been featured on The NBC Today Show, The History Channel, PBS, CSPAN, and NPR, as well as in The New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN.com, and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. He currently serves as an advisor on the upcoming PBS documentary series The History of Gospel Music & Preaching.

Heretic was released in theaters in 2024 and quickly developed something of a cult fandom, especially among religion nerds. Starring Hugh Grant in a rare villainous dark turn, Heretic tells to story of two young Mormon missionaries, Sister Paxton and Sister Barnes, who find themselves forced to defend their faith (and their lives) against the human manifestation of dickish online atheist bros. Whether of not Heretic is a good movie about religion is open to debate (and we take that up here), but unlike other religious horror, it pulls its thrills from a very unique source and its writers did their homework, painting faith and believers in three dimensions while not endorsing either, and showing the folly of hyper-rationality at the same time. Shaily Patel, one of our earliest guests, rejoins us to talk about a movie she describes as one she both loves and hates. You can find her on Bluesky @vox-magica.

This week, Richard Saville-Smith joins Kelly and John to talk about his book Acute Religious Experiences – Madness, Psychosis, and Religious Studies, which was published by Bloomsbury in 2023. Saville-Smith is an independent researcher who focuses on the intersection of madness, mental disorders, and acute religious experiences, from a mad studies perspective. He earned his PhD in Philosophy and Religious Studies from the University of Edinburgh in 2020. They discuss the relatively little-known academic field of mad studies - which seeks to destigmatize and depathologize the concept of madness - and how the fields of psychiatry and religious studies, often operating in conflict with one another, have distorted our understanding of the authenticity of acute religious experiences like the ones described in the lives of Joan of Arc or Jesus. Richard is on Bluesky @dranamorphosis

Last week, the Catholic Church absolutely shook the world by electing Robert Prevost - an Augustinian from Chicago - Pope Leo XIV, making him the first ever American pope. Immediately, MAGA lost their collective minds, calling Leo XIV a woke Marxist and an anti-Trump liberal. Leo XIV's election was, without question, a statement by the Church directed squarely at MAGA and Donald Trump, but so many questions remain about what happens next. Kelly and John share their thoughts about the selection of Prevost, what it means that he chose the name Leo XIV, and why this way well serve as a check against Trump's fascism and persecution of immigrant communities. They also take a look at some of the findings from the Public Religion Research Institute's findings from their survey of Americans following Trump's first 100 days. John's thoughts on Leo XIV or available on our blog. The PRRI surveys we discuss on the episode can be found here and here

William Golding's 1952 novel Lord of the Flies is one of those books most of us of a certain age were forced to read in high school and pretty much universally hated. Often presented as a bleak meditation on human nature, Lord of the Flies certainly isn't that. But why were its real themes - the destructive nature of colonialism, the inconsistency between the ideals of democratic nations and their actual values, and how and why fascists tend to rise the top - so routinely overlooked for so long? Here, we suggest it's because Lord of the Flies is a book so obvious and unsparing in its symbolism it can really only be appreciated when its themes are playing out in front of us. As they are right now. With abandon. In this episode we also talk about how the Showtime series Yellowjackets helps illuminate why Lord of the Flies needs to be understood allegorically, as well as how fascism is depicted in another popular dystopian work involving teenagers killing each other, The Hunger Games. John's essay on Lord of the Flies can be found on our blog here: Lord of the Flies is more relevant now than ever

Before you listen to today's episode, you should know that knowing about Roko's Basilisk can doom you forever. Still here? Great. This week, John and Kelly explore a few of the religion stories that have surfaced in recent weeks, including what happens and if when Pope Francis dies soon, and the evangelical backlash of Trump appointing Paula White as the White House Faith officer. Then, we take on Roko's Basilisk, an unhinged thought experiment about the moral imperative of helping to develop super-intelligent A.I. that, as it happens, also helps explain Elon Musk's zealous, eugenicist project to dismantle the federal government. We promise it matters!

This is a republished episode from John's former podcast Hard to Believe featuring an interview with Chris Kluwe In light Kluwe making national news with his recent act of anti-MAGA civil disobedience, we decided to republish an interview John conducted with Kluwe in 2021, in which he describes, among other things, how he came to be an activist and advocate for justice causes. Here is the original descriptions of that episode: ******************************************************************** Chris Kluwe was an accomplished NFL punter with the Minnesota Vikings. Then he decided to stand up for the rights of other human beings. Now he's a science fiction novelist. And a lot has happened in between. His first science fiction novel, Otaku, was just released in paperback, so he and John sat across the internet from each other to talk about where he gets his sense of social responsibility, his evolution as a writer, and how it feels to be the only person in American history to have used the term "lustful cockmonster" in a letter to a sitting elected official. Find out where to buy Otaku from somewhere other than Amazon here You can try not to get blocked by Chris by following him on Twitter @ChrisWarcraft Clips from the beginning of this episode come from: CNN, MSNBC, The Young Turks, The Dan Patrick Show, Geek and Sundry, Larry King Now, and Conan The outro is a cover of "Science Fiction / Double Feature" by Tall Dark Whimsy