Positioning with April Dunford

In today’s episode, Georgiana Laudi and I explore the failings of traditional sales funnels and why companies should instead focus on a customer-led approach to growth.My guest, Georgiana Laudi, is the ultimate marketing guru with a passion for turning customer value into cash for SaaS companies. She helps SaaS leaders grow smarter through her consultancy, Forget the Funnel. You will learn: * Why traditional funnels are lazy and ineffective for understanding customers.* The concept of customer-led growth and how it differs from funnel-based approaches.* The importance of mapping critical moments of value in the customer journey.* The pitfalls of ignoring pre- and post-funnel customer experiences.* How to align teams around a profound understanding of customer needs.* The role of KPIs in tracking customer success, not just business success.* Why optimizing customer onboarding can lead to dramatic improvements in growth.—If you want to skip ahead: 02:30 - Why Funnels Don’t Work06:45 - Introducing Customer-Led Growth12:30 - Mapping Customer Journeys17:15 - Jobs to Be Done: A Game Changer23:10 - The Importance of Onboarding28:00 - Measuring Success: KPIs That Matter35:30 - How to Focus on the Right Customers—Learn more about Georgiana Laudi and her Forget the Funnel team: https://forgetthefunnel.com/ Connect with Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/ —Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ April’s Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford April’s TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@positioningshow—Mentioned in this episode: * Georgiana Laudi and Claire Suellentrop’s book, Forget the Funnel: A Customer-Led Approach for Driving Predictable, Recurring Revenue: https://amzn.to/3QOTP2z * The Jobs-to-Be-Done methodology. —Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.”“Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.”Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQApple Books: https://apple.co/3xihSzCGoogle Play: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=%22April%20Dunford%22&c=books Barnes & Noble: https://www.bn.com/s/%22April%20Dunford%22   Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/contributors/april-dunford —The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance.Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3PFHcWx Subscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4aqyDqI Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@positioningshow —This episode was produced by Story On Media & Marketing: https://www.SuccessWithStories.com

In today’s episode, I speak with product marketing expert and consultant Tamara Grominsky, who is the former Vice President of Product Marketing at Kajabi and Unbounce. Have you ever asked questions such as: “How do I hire a good product marketer? What skills should they have? And how should we measure product marketing?” In this episode, Tamara and I answer those questions and more.You will learn: * The key responsibilities of a good product marketer.* Why product marketers should know the product better than product managers.* The differences between sales-led and product-led go-to-market strategies, plus the importance of mapping the buying journey and equipping the sales team with the right messages.* The need for founders to be realistic about the skills and experience required for a startup product marketer.* Why product launches don't need to be big or expensive to succeed, but they do need to be intentional about who the launch is for.* Lessons from how Michelin Guide was launched to encourage more driving, with star ratings for destinations.* The benefits of analyzing existing customers to identify best fit for product and value proposition.* Why you should avoid creating marketing personas that are too fictional and instead create segment profiles that are based on quantitative data.—If you want to skip ahead: (3:27) Product marketing role and responsibilities. (6:47) Product marketing challenges and hiring tips. (12:24) Product launch strategies. (16:08) Identifying target audience for product launches. (20:13) Segmentation in marketing. (25:10) Identifying customer segments. (29:01) Product marketing personas. —Connect with Tamara Grominsky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamaragrominsky/ Subscribe to “PMM Camp,” Tamara’s newsletter for product marketing leaders: https://newsletter.pmmcamp.com/subscribe —Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford —Mentioned in this episode: * PMM Camp, Tamara’s community for product marketing leaders: https://www.pmmcamp.com/ * The Leap, a platform by Thinkific that creators can use to create and sell digital products: https://www.theleap.co/ —Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.”“Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.”Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ—The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance.Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3PFHcWx Subscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4aqyDqI Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@positioningshow —This episode was produced by Story On Media & Marketing: https://www.SuccessWithStories.com

In today’s episode, my guest and I explore the intricate relationship between positioning, messaging, and copywriting for B2B tech companies. I’m joined by Emma Stratton, the founder of a consulting firm that helps-growing B2B tech companies win on positioning and messaging. You will learn: * How B2B and B2C are different and each comes with their own unique challenges and opportunities.* How to differentiate between positioning, messaging, and copywriting.* The value of flexible messaging across different channels. * The importance of being concise in marketing messaging, particularly in the tech industry.* How punchy language is easier for consumers to absorb and remember, making it more effective in conveying complex ideas.* Why marketing professionals should avoid jargon and overused words like "leverage," "utilize," "transform," "accelerate," and "game changer."* Why some people struggle with narrowing down on a specific customer persona.* How taglines and headlines need to speak to customer perspectives.* Formulas and tricks to make your headlines more interesting and attention-grabbing. —If you want to skip ahead: 0:01 Positioning and messaging in B2B. 8:32 Marketing terminology. 13:04 Using simple language in marketing and avoiding jargon. 17:20 Tech language clarity and messaging for specific customer types. 22:18 Messaging for technical products. 30:27 Emma’s book about messaging and marketing. 35:29 Messaging strategy. —Connect with Emma Stratton. Emma’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-stratton-punchy/ Punchy: https://punchy.co/ Learn about Emma’s book, Make it Punchy: How to Write Simple Tech Messaging That Wins Hearts, Minds, and Markets, which will be published in September 2024: https://punchy.co/book/—Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford —Mentioned in this episode: * Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die, a book by Chip Heath and Dan Heath: https://amzn.to/4cNPDsx —Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.”“Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.”Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ—The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance.Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3PFHcWx Subscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4aqyDqI Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@positioningshow —This episode was produced by Story On Media & Marketing: https://www.SuccessWithStories.com 

In today’s episode, I discuss how sales and marketing interact with Loren Padelford, a sales, marketing, cashflow, and revenue expert. You will learn: * The limitations of the predictable revenue playbook and alternative approaches.* How Salesforce pioneered cloud-based software and introduced a new way of thinking about how software gets delivered and sold.* How the rise of ad networks and digital ads made it easier to reach many potential customers faster. * Why the traditional sales process and long sales cycles are frustrating and failing. * That startups founders should design their own sales system based on their product and customer needs.* Shopify’s approach to hiring sales reps involved looking for personality traits like curiosity, intelligence, work ethic, and success.* That research shows no correlation between education and success in sales. * The limitations of Product-Led Growth (PLG) approach.* The role of sales reps as tour guides of e-commerce platforms.* The need for marketing, sales, and product to work together in the software industry. —If you want to skip ahead: (0:01) The predictable revenue sales model and alternative models. (4:49) Sales and marketing strategies in the software industry. (10:52) The limitations of the predictable revenue model in software sales. (15:44) Sales strategies and personality traits for success in sales. (23:01) Sales strategies for Shopify businesses. (27:35) The role of sales reps in e-commerce, with a focus on Shopify's experience. (33:05) Sales and marketing collaboration. (36:51) Sales and marketing alignment. —Connect with Loren Padelford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorenpadelford/ —Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford —Mentioned in this episode: * Predictable Revenue: Turn Your Business Into a Sales Machine with the $100 Million Best Practices of Salesforce.com, a 2011 book by Aaron Ross: https://amzn.to/4bXcBMP —Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.”“Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.”Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQApple Books: https://apple.co/3xihSzC—The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance.Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3PFHcWx Subscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4aqyDqI Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@positioningshow —This episode was produced by Story On Media & Marketing: https://www.SuccessWithStories.com

In today’s episode, Brent Adamson and I explore what works and what doesn't work on sales teams, and Brent’s ideas for how we should arm sales teams to go out and win in the market. My guest today is Brent Adamson, a researcher, author, presenter, and thinker with a passion for “productive disruption.”You will learn: * The origins of the Challenger Sale concept and how the term "challenger" refers to salespeople who teach customers about their industries and challenge their assumptions, rather than simply telling them what to do.* Challenging customers to think differently.* Customer context has changed radically in the last 10 years, making large-scale decisions more complex.* Why some customers are overwhelmed by internal complexity, information, inability to align on goals, marketing, conflicting messages, etc. * Why many marketers misunderstand the customer journey. * The supplier selection is a critical problem to solve, but often occurs after the sales side has already been solved for.* Helping customers feel more confident in their decision-making abilities, rather than simply presenting them with new information.* How the Challenger Sales approach involves both frame breaking and frame making, with the goal of helping customers navigate their own internal complexity and alignment with colleagues.* Understanding the buyer's journey. * Using value to demonstrate customer confidence, not the other way around.—If you want to skip ahead: (3:22) Sales research findings, including the Challenger Sale study. (6:12) Sales profiling, with a focus on the Challenger Sale approach. (11:31) Challenging customers to think differently. (14:27) Sales strategies. (18:05) How buying decisions have become more complex and involve more stakeholders, creating challenges for sellers. (23:04) Marketing strategies. (28:10) Navigating complex decision-making in business. (38:17) Customer confidence and alignment in B2B sales. —Connect with Brent Adamson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brentadamson/ Get Brent’s books from Amazon: https://amzn.to/3wlHOu4 —Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford —Mentioned in this episode: * Brent Adamson and Matthew Dixon’s book, The Challenger Sale: Taking Control of the Customer Conversation: https://amzn.to/3UsTcfG * Brent Adamson, Matthew Dixon, Pat Spenner, and Nick Toman’s book, The Challenger Customer: Selling to the Hidden Influencer Who Can Multiply Your Results: https://amzn.to/3Ut41y2 * “Sensemaking for Sales,” Brent Adamson’s article in The Harvard Business Review: https://hbr.org/2022/01/sensemaking-for-sales * Matthew Dixon, Ted McKenna’s book, The JOLT Effect: How High Performers Overcome Customer Indecision: https://amzn.to/3wuvDuK —Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.”“Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.”Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQ—The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance.Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3PFHcWx Subscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4aqyDqI Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@positioningshow —This episode was produced by Story On Media & Marketing: https://www.SuccessWithStories.com

In today’s episode, I talk with a technology entrepreneur about lessons related to his product initially being mispositioned in the market and also the challenges of positioning both free and paid versions of software solutions. Joining me is Abhinav Asthana, founder and CEO of Postman, an API platform for software developers to build and use APIs.In today’s episode: * How Postman's positioning evolved from a product-focused approach to a platform-focused approach, with different positioning for end-users and executives.* Building Postman with the conviction that modern software is built on APIs, and evangelizing (positioning) this idea to investors.* Why top-down positioning needs to align with company strategy. * The value of working with analysts to understand customer needs and improve products.* Positioning software in terms of satisfying customer needs.* The importance of staying ahead of competitors in the enterprise software market.* The challenges of competing with free products and prioritizing user experience.* Abhinav advises talking to 50-100 customers per year to gain insights and build conviction in product decisions.—If you want to skip ahead: (2:24) Origin story of Postman. (7:19) Postman's growth, fundraising, and positioning challenges. (12:57) API platform growth and top-down sales strategies. (18:03) Taking an API-first approach in software development and marketing strategies. (28:19) Scaling velocity, competitors, and customer engagement in the enterprise software space. —Connect with Abhinav Asthana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhinavasthana/ Learn about Postman’s API platform: https://www.postman.com/ —Connect with April Dunford and learn about practical positioning that accelerates marketing and sales: Work with April: https://www.aprildunford.com/contact April’s newsletter: https://aprildunford.substack.com/ April’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ April’s Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/aprildunford —Mentioned in this episode: “Breaking Changes,” a podcast where Postman Chief Evangelist Kin Lane and guests talk about the API universe: https://www.postman.com/events/breaking-changes/“The API-First Transformation,” a book by Kin Lane with a foreword by Abhinav Asthana: https://amzn.to/3PZzEOy —Get April Dunford’s books and audiobooks: “Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.”“Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win.”Amazon US: https://amzn.to/49l0ZRY Amazon Canada: https://amzn.to/4ac9hgt Amazon UK: https://amzn.to/3vosDzQApple Books: https://apple.co/3xihSzC—The Positioning with April Dunford podcast: Want to make your product stand out in a crowded market? It all starts with great positioning. Using April’s battle-tested methodology, she'll teach you the nitty-gritty of positioning so that you can unlock better marketing and sales performance.Podcast website: https://www.positioning.show/ Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3PFHcWx Subscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4aqyDqI Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@positioningshow —This episode was produced by Story On Media & Marketing: https://www.SuccessWithStories.com 

Today, I’m going to discuss how to have consistent positioning and messaging across sales and marketing using tactics from my book Sales Pitch. You will learn: Why marketers at B2B companies should start with the sales pitch first An overview of buyer’s guides and the components of the best ones How to create an explainer video using the sales pitch structure Why all content should target the proper persona Examples of graphics used to educate buyers Other types of content that can be structured around the sales pitch You'll also hear that this is the final episode of Season 1, as I'm excited to take a break from podcasting for the rest of the year. Thanks for listening and supporting the podcast, and I look forward to recording more content next year! — If You Want To Skip Ahead: (00:21) An overview of my consulting work and season 1 finale (01:11) Why marketing should center their storytelling on what works for sales (05:30) How and why to use a buyer’s guide with customers (09:13) How to incorporate the Sales Pitch structure into explainer videos (10:20) Other places pieces of the sales narrative may work well (11:07) The significance of different personas (12:10) Leveraging the sales narrative set up phase for conference talks (13:30) How graphics can enhance understanding of differentiated value (14:09) The graphics Postman created to illustrate its features and capabilities (16:20) Gitlab’s infinity graphic (17:16) Salesforce’s confusing infographic (19:30) Other ways to use my Sales Pitch structure (21:13) Closing thoughts — Where To Find April Dunford: Podcast Website: ⁠https://www.positioning.show/⁠ Personal Website: ⁠https://www.aprildunford.com/⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/⁠ Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/⁠ Twitter: ⁠https://twitter.com/aprildunford⁠ — Referenced: Sales Pitch: How to Craft a Story to Stand Out and Win: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Sales-Pitch-Craft-Story-Stand/dp/1999023021⁠ Postman: ⁠https://www.postman.com/⁠ What is Postman: ⁠https://www.postman.com/product/what-is-postman/⁠ The API platform landscape: ⁠https://blog.postman.com/2022-api-platform-landscape-trends-and-challenges/⁠ Gitlab Infinity: ⁠https://gitlab.com/infinity7x⁠ Salesforce Customer 360: ⁠https://www.salesforce.com/ap/blog/what-is-salesforce-customer-360/⁠ Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Obviously-Awesome-Product-Positioning-Customers/dp/1999023005⁠ — Production and marketing by ⁠https://penname.co/

Every business wants to cash in on the latest trend, and for good reason. Trends can be powerful tools to enhance your positioning. However, it's crucial to recognize that not all trends are a universal fit for every company. Blindly adopting trends without thoughtful messaging can lead to disastrous outcomes for your business. Today, I’m diving deep into the world of trends. You’ll learn the following: The difference between markets and trends How trends can be layered on top of your differentiated value Why it’s a risky move to chase trends that aren't relevant to your business Real-world examples of companies incorporating trends, both successfully and poorly An overview of AI technology and how to address it in your business Thanks for listening! — If You Want To Skip Ahead: (00:27) Information about Sales Pitch and a reader’s review (01:19) The difference between markets and trends (04:34) How and when to layer trends on top of your differentiated value (06:36) The three circle mental model of product, market, and trend (07:38) How Redgate Software took advantage of the DevOps trend (09:50) Trends don’t always align with your product (and why you shouldn’t force them to) (13:41) Long Island Blockchain: an example of a company latching onto an unrelated trend (16:39) An overview of AI technology (18:28) The right way to address AI if it is relevant to your business and customers (19:42) Announcements — Where To Find April Dunford: Podcast Website: https://www.positioning.show/ Personal Website: https://www.aprildunford.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aprildunford/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/aprildunford — Referenced: Pantone: https://www.pantone.com/ Redgate Software: https://www.red-gate.com/ Long Island Iced Tea Soars After Changing Its Name to Long Blockchain: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/crypto-craze-sees-long-island-iced-tea-rename-as-long-blockchain — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/