Really Good Conversations

Part 1: The Truth About Reality TV & How to Cut Through the Noise What does it take to really have the X Factor? Maz Farrelly has shaped some of the biggest TV shows of our time, from Big Brother to The X Factor, and has worked with global icons from Beyoncé to Prince Charles. Maz knows how to grab an audience's attention and hold it. Her content has been watched over 8 billion times! She's an 'Olympic-level storyteller', which is why this is Part 1 of a two-part conversation. We didn't want to cut it; we could have chatted for hours longer. After years in the TV industry, Maz now brings her storytelling skills into boardrooms, onto stages and into big businesses around the world; helping companies win attention, master storytelling, elevate customer experience and lead like a rock star. In this first part episode, Maz takes us behind the curtain of reality TV - how she got into the industy, the rise of reality TV and what it taught her about human behaviour. As someone who grew up watching these shows, Amy found it fascinating to hear how they were created. She also shares the "doom message" she gave contestants before they entered the public eye, the hard truth about chasing fame, and why being "interesting" is a skill - especially when everyone is shouting. Maz shares her personal journey, hilarious moments to thought-provoking reflections, this episode is packed with straight-talking wisdom and media-savvy gold. Key Outtakes: How Big Brother broke the rules and changed TV forever The unseen consequences of reality TV fame What Maz told contestants before they signed up to the shows Why charisma and authenticity aren't always the same The three-question test she uses to decide if something's "interesting" And be sure to tune in for Part 2: Moral Codes, Reinvention & Living on Your Own Terms Find out more about Maz: Website - mazspeaksglobal.com Showreel - https://vimeo.com/1112852043 LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maz-speaks/

What happens when a career built on success no longer feels like enough? In this episode Amy chats to her old colleague and friend Serena Dodd. After a high-energy career in TV and events, Serena Dodd hit a wall - literally on the way to London Waterloo - when a panic attack forced a rethink. Serena shares her journey from realising "something needs to change" to finally stepping away from the industry, then the pivotal year that followed: retraining as a coach, rebuilding confidence, and rewriting her identity. Serena explains why she calls herself an "Aliveness Coach" , what feeling alive actually means and living beyond apathy. We also talk about Fly, the global community she's building for coaches to counter isolation, learn together and deliver richer services. Serena's story is a reminder that success isn't static: she was a success before, she's a success now, and the courage to pivot made all the difference. Key Topics Discussed: A London Waterloo wake-up Taking the steps to change Moving beyond apathy: why recognising and addressing "living on autopilot" is the first step to feeling truly alive. "Aliveness" = intention + purpose, not perfection Replace "cul-de-sac thoughts" with "motorway thinking." Community (Fly) reduces isolation and elevates practice Serena Dodd is co-author of My Dad Thinks I'm a Fairy, host of the Made to Fly podcast, and founder of Fly. www.serenadodd.com Made To Fly Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/made-to-fly/id1827931677 Book: My Dad Thinks I'm A Fairy - Book Link Fly: The Coaches Network - www.wearefly.com Episode Transcript: Amy Welcome to the Really Good Conversations podcast. Today I am joined by an old colleague and very good friend of mine, Serena Dodd. After a successful career in the TV and events industry, Serena retrained as a coach and now helps people navigate change with confidence. She's also the co-author of My Dad Thinks I'm a Fairy, host of the Made to Fly podcast and founder of Fly, a new community for coaches focused on connection and growth. Welcome to the podcast, Serena. Serena Thanks for having me Avery, I've been looking forward to this for ages. Amy I almost think like we should have actually just batched together our various WhatsApp voice note chats. And I could have just top and tailed that as some sort of conversation. Serena That's definitely not an hour's worth of content. Maybe a week. Amy It is really awesome to have you here because you've become a lifelong friend now. We have known each other well over 10 years ago, our London days of working in events and experiential. And yeah, lots of fond memories, but I'm keen today to talk a bit about your journey and probably almost since then really, cause you've had a really interesting and exciting last few years Take us back to your world of TV and events and what initially drew you to a career in that industry. Serena I think I always wanted to be in the entertainment industry. That was like a key driver for me. I started out as a kid and I wanted to be an actress. And then as I kind of got into my mid teens, was like, this is not quite, I didn't really want to be in the spotlight. And I've just really enjoyed the tech side. So I ended up at a theater school doing stage management and technical theater. And was from there that I got my first job and that happened to be in LA for BAFTA. So that's how I got into the TV world, but doing events. Amy How long were you in that industry, TV and events? Serena After BAFTA, I came back to the UK and I ended up finding a role in a marketing experiential agency that was looking for people to come onto their content team freelance to do some filming in the Alps. I was like, wow, this sounds fantastic. I must do this. So I applied for this job. And I heard nothing. And about two months later, they wrote to me and they said, brilliant, come over to the Milton Keynes ski slopes and we'll have an interview with you and we will assess your skiing and everything else. And I had told them that I could ski. Well, I could 10 years ago and hadn't been on a ski slope in that period of time. So I thought, oh my God. So I took myself down to the local dry slope to do some practices the night before, went up to Milton Keynes and it was just all men that were kind of getting interviewed. And it was a woman interview and she came up to me, she goes, listen, you're the only woman, let's have a conversation. So we had this chat and she said, what language do you speak? And I said, English. And she said, we need someone to speak, you know, French or Italian or German. And I said, well, I did say this in my CV and I did say it in my covering notes. And she was like, never mind, let's just have a conversation. So we had this conversation. She said, look, I can't give you this job, but you know, I'll keep you in mind for another role, at which point you go 'sure'. And so about two weeks later, she contacted me and she said, we're actually looking for a senior, a senior content manager in our experiential agency. Are you interested? And I said, yeah, she said, you have to do some presenting and everything else. thought, well, I haven't done this before. So that's what I did. I ended up in the content team as it was called what was called the broadcast team then. And then it turned into a content team. This was around 2007. And I worked in that industry filming extreme sports events all around the world. And I loved it. So we worked as an agency bringing in production companies to film and then we would work with brands to work on their ROI. You know, this is all very new stuff to me. So I didn't really have a clue what I was doing. So it was quite fun and I really enjoyed it. And I was with really interesting people doing really interesting stuff. And then unfortunately, it was one of my favorite jobs, actually. Unfortunately, the recession hit my role and the business, well, the business went from about 45, 50 people to five people in one day. God, yeah, I was actually called off holiday to come in and have this conversation because our biggest brands had kind of, they hadn't folded. But the first thing that goes is their marketing budget. So yeah, we went down to a company of five and I was in that five. And so my role changed to be more of an account handler for the events that they were doing. And that's how I got really into events. Amy We last worked together, it would have been about 2013. you know, again, as you've already touched on, you've done some awesome work around Europe and road shows. And I always highlight for us was doing an event where we got to meet Usain Bolt in Paris and lots of awesome fun memories. However, you decided to leave the events industry. So was there a defining moment or a gradual realisation that told you it was time for a change? Serena After I worked on the Olympics, as you know, because you were sort of interspersed intermittently in that world. And I just, I just knew that I didn't love it. You know, I think it was more sort of, I had come from a television background, it wasn't, I sort of just fell into events. But I knew I could do it and I'd like, you know, there were elements that I liked. I liked dealing with people, but I just didn't like the constant franticness and my energy is not that way inclined, you know, for me, and I suppose that's why I was quite good with clients because I was always able to kind of calm them down. But the sort of mechanics of the events, it just didn't interest me as much, but I knew I could do it and I knew I was uber organised. So after the Olympics, that's when I had the, that was my sort of deciding factor. was like August, 2012, where I thought I needed to change something. I wanted to change something, but I actually didn't have the confidence to feel like I could do anything else. I could, I just felt very sort of blocked mentally on what the options were for me. And I thought, well, I've got loads of contacts in the industry, I can do it. I'll just keep going. And I'll just, I'll just start my own business and freelance and then get some clients. And so I went down that path. And luckily for me, during something like the Olympics, you meet a lot of people. And so, you know, that's when you and I got to work together. Serena But it was a bit of an emotional roller coaster at that for about six years. So it was not a decision that was made quickly. And it only got made six years later at the end of 2018. Quite unexpectedly, actually, I just thought this was going to be my life. I thought it was going to be a case of not enjoying my job, like working like crazy, finishing a project, stopping having, you know, a week or so's rest and then getting onto the next project. And I was doing a conference in Barcelona. I happened to be in the UK. It was a week out. It wasn't the most taxing event that I had done because I had a really good team. We were in a really good position and I left work about seven o'clock and I thought, I'm going to go, I'm going to go for a massage. And everyone's like ushering about the door, going, yes, enjoy, enjoy sort of, we're all excited for anyone who gets to leave the office before nine. and, I went for this massage and it was a bit, it was a bit of a weird massage in terms of she didn't clearly know how to mess up. And, I ended up walking to Waterloo station and I just blanked out my, my whole, my whole world became very small, I lost my eyesight temporarily. And even though I didn't think it at the time, I was having a panic attack and I leant against this wall, which happens to be part of a fire station bar. And I just, I just really focused on, I remember my world getting small and focusing on my breathing. And I bet when I came, when I came to, when my, my eyesight came back, it probably was only, you know, a minute, but it felt like an eternity. I thought I can't actually go into the station. I just can't go into that station. And I called a friend and they picked me up and I stayed on their couch and the following day I got up early, back to normal, no problem. But something had changed inside of me. And so when we finished the job in Barcelona, the client asked if I could go to San Francisco to talk about the next event. And I just, without hesitation. It like my whole, was from a cellular level. I just said no. And I knew at that point I needed to shut down my business. I had no idea what I was gonna do, but something needed to change. Amy Wow. because you're just in that event's world as well. is, it's one to the next. It's go, go, go. And it is, high energy, high intensity. There's excitement with it. And you're quite prepared to like just work all of the hours, because also there's a deadline with a very real live deadline that stuff has to get happened for. What was the hardest part about retraining and starting completely fresh in a new field? Serena Decision-making. 2019 for me was a really great year from April. Why I say from March, purely because from saying no in the December in Barcelona and then just being in a space of indecision was the worst heart because even though I had told myself, you know, don't, don't worry, you know, you're, you're, good, you can kind of do three to six months where you're just going to take time to do what you want to do. I didn't actually know what I wanted to do. I didn't, I didn't even know how to have free time. Because it felt very aimless. So for me, I just had to think about the things that I had control over, which was getting up in the morning, I didn't want to lie in bed all day. I made sure I got up, made my bed, and went for a walk. And it's funny enough, as these walks continued, that I started to listen to podcasts on, happened to be a live coach, not that I was looking for a live coach, I just typed in, know, career change, because I really wasn't in the sort of, I'd read a lot of self help books, but I hadn't really ventured into sort of the coaching world at all. I started listening to this woman and this woman came from corporate and she was running a life coaching business and everything that she started to speak about just started to make sense to me. I'm a forward thinker. She was talking about things, you know, in the future and not in the past. And it mechanically worked well with my brain. And it changed so much for me very, very quickly. And I thought, my God, I've been in indecision really for six years. And yes, it's taken this moment at Waterloo to make me take action. Actually, it's these conversations that I'm listening to on the podcast that are helping me, letting me know, I'm not odd, we are going through this, you know, there's so many changes that can happen and are possible. And yeah, I really, I remember feeling energised and alive, thinking there's new possibilities, because so much of my limiting beliefs ran around the fact that you shouldn't change jobs. know, my age, you exactly, you know, but also, you know, the people you have good contacts. You're making good money, all of those things are popping into your head. And, you know, I even thought, well, who gets new friends at this age, who has new hobbies at this age, which sounds daft, but that's really that was my mindset. So I reprioritized everything in my life that year. And I signed up to train with her, this woman for a year to become a life coach. And I put the education up there. put my career down at the bottom of the pile. And I decided that I was going to leave London. I was going to find new friends and I was going to find a hobby. And that's what I did. I went onto Facebook groups near where I was living outside of London. And I said, you know, does anyone want to have a cup of tea with me? I started that way. And then I got introduced to other people in different groups. you know, before I knew it, I had, I was able to have plans almost every night of the week. And then I started to salsa dance. And you know, that was terrifying walking in there on your own, with very little confidence. And, you know, then they say, pick a partner. Oh, yeah, no idea who's gonna come my way and I can't dance. So. yeah, it was really confidence building and starting, you know, getting back into education again. I loved it. It was great. Amy Wow. How did you navigate the identity shift from being that event's professional to coach? Serena That's a really good question. I let go of the events pretty quickly because I was ready. I was really, really ready. I was happy to adopt the coach identity, but not as quickly. It's, you know, I came from a corporate world and I, you know, I had surrounded myself with people who were in that headspace of the corporate nine to five, or let's say nine to eight world. And, you know, the rat race and all of those, all of those things that they wouldn't. We'd seen people who had left our industry and gone and done something a little bit more holistic. And it just, there was a stigma attached to it. And I also didn't have any, any presence online at all. So that mindset shift, so even though I was, I definitely had progressed forward, that new identity actually took a couple of years for me to really lean into and say, yeah, this is exactly what I'm doing. And I know it can help you. That was a great moment to be able to kind of just lean into what I was doing. So I was happy to let the events go, but to adopt this new identity did take a good couple of years. Amy What do you think are the myths that people have about starting over again with a career or life choices? Serena I feel like there's a lot of shouldn't. I shouldn't do this. It's irresponsible. There's a lot of what ifs that come into play. So I feel like it's that. I think it's very various levels of that. It's okay for others. There's a support system for others. People will justify other people's independence or success to make themselves feel better and feel safe. you know, and that, you know, there can be a stigma to someone giving something a go. So I think there's a lot of what other people will think attached to that too. I speak initially for myself, and I speak further from conversations I've had with clients and people who have changed direction quite significantly in their lives at some point. Amy What do you think are some of the lessons you've learned about making these bold changes in your life? Because you've not only, as you said, you changed your job, but you changed where you were living. were upgrading, shall I say, circles of friends. What do you think you've learned about yourself along this path of bold changes Serena I can start again anytime. Amy I think- I love that. Serena I think that's the thing, you know, if all else, if anything, it all collapsed around me today, and I had to go and live somewhere else, I can do it. I feel like I built up that confidence in 2019. And that mindset to know that, you know, change is completely possible. And it can be possible at any age, you just need to manage your mind. And that is the key thing because it's all very well working with the inertia of something new and exciting. But the continuation of that is, it is hard. And in order to work towards something different, whether it's a dream or whether it is, you know, things have collapsed around you and you've got to start again, you have to first and foremost, consistently work on your mindset. Amy Absolutely and definitely I could do with doing that more. I think I tell you this many times on my WhatsApp and voice notes. Now you are more specifically an aliveness coach. What does it mean to you to feel alive? Serena It feels authentic. I think that's not just for someone who comes from a corporate background to not be fluffy. I chose really lovely fluffy titles to call myself, but I, you know, I don't say it without a lot of intention. I call myself an aliveness coach to stand out, but to stand out in a way that really means something to myself and the people that I'm reaching out to. I've really focused on apathy and I do understand levels of apathy that I think a lot of people are either conscious of and don't want to do anything about or unconscious of and find frustration in not understanding why they're not reaching their potential. And I don't mean that potential in financial success. I just mean life potential. So I really love, I love apathy. I love talking about it. And I love the transition into, you know, aliveness because aliveness doesn't mean that life is great all the time because it isn't. Aliveness is, you know, about living into something with intention and wanting to wake up in the morning, knowing that it might be a really hard day and you've got hard conversations to have, but actually there's a bigger picture, there's purpose and there's self-worth and self-confidence. And that's what it means to me is, you know, we don't need to have a perfect life, but we do need to understand that in order to live a full life, there needs to be purpose and joy. So that's why aliveness is so important to me. Amy And you did an excellent keynote earlier in the year, Living with Apathy. And it resonated, it struck a chord, you know, what you were highlighting in that talk as well was really inspiring. I definitely don't know if you've got it publicly available, Oh, good. Yeah, I'll include that link. thought I'll go into it now, but we'll digress. Serena I do, Amy Talk a little bit about some of the patterns you see in the work that you do with clients who are stuck or at crossroads. What patterns do you see that they have? Serena Fixed mindset. The thing that I find the most is, and it can be with anyone, I'm not exempting myself from that, you know, as much as I have worked on my own mindset, there'll be times where I have to check myself, if I'm going to a talk, for example, and I feel I know the subject, I have to check in with myself and go, let's just be a beginner here. And, know, you might just learn something. And I, and I, I really try hard to do that. It doesn't always work, but I do try hard. And I think when you haven't done a lot of personal development, you feel life is just what it is. And, know, you think this is it. What I sort of refer to as cul-de-sac thoughts. These are the thoughts that get you nowhere. These are the thoughts that you can literally just go around and back and forth into this cul-de-sac. And if you have freeway, highway, motorway thinking, you know, that allows you endless journeys. So the sort of cul-de-sac thoughts keep you stagnant. And we do it without even thinking about it, even a phrase like, don't know, because we always think of phrases like I can't, which is a simple one, but a phrase like I don't know, is also, you know, a stunting thought. It's a, these, in not What seemed like innocuous thoughts, I should be doing this are the ones that hinder us daily. And we all have them. And it's just, I'm more aware. It doesn't mean that I don't have unconscious thoughts that hinder me too. It's just, it's a constant practice to get your mindset into a space that allows you to have more sort of motorway thinking. But yeah, that's what I come across the most. Amy Yeah. Is there a particular book or podcast that you're inspired by recently? Serena I was thinking about that earlier. Amy, you're in the book club, But I always I always like to go back to is the big leap by Gay Hendrix, which is, you know, your upper limiting beliefs. It's, it's, you know, it's, if you speak to coaches, you know, either people, you know, most coaches know it. Some, some coaches have read it. But it's a very, it's not a particularly big book, but it's a very inspiring book. And it's a thought provoker about a lot of it is about upper limiting beliefs. And no matter how advanced you get, whether it's in business or life, personal development, you will always have an upper limiting belief. And to understand what that is, it's always gonna be crucial to kind of further better yourself or further go to the next level and Those are the ones that that book has, and that phrase of upper-limiting belief really stays with me constantly. Amy Let's talk a little bit about Fly, the community that you've been building. What sparked that idea to build Fly? Serena I feel very much like I'm on a mission to help liberate people in mental isolation, specifically of societal constructed thinking. I know that's a bit of a mouthful, but it's the best way that I can explain it. So all the shoulds and I should be here by now and I should do this for this person, all of that it's not about being kind or compassionate or anything like that. It's about coming out of mental isolation so that you are living the life that you are meant to live. So pulling together a community of coaches from all different modalities from the spectrum. just expands and for them to be able to better their service through community, through further education, through industry discussion. Yeah. Cast the net wider to help more people out of mental isolation in whatever modality, you know, is right for them. Yeah. So I work on, you know, I work on your brain and you know, I educate you about sort of how the brain works. And some people that really resonate with them. Other people, it's about hypnosis, you know, others, it's about, you know, tapping, there's just so many others, it's about different types of therapy. So to be able to create that community of coaches who, by the way, spend a lot of time helping others. And, you know, we find that, you know, as business owners, especially online, it's quite an isolating world. So to be able to bring community to the coaching industry and enrich that coach's life through what I call like a business family of coaches can only better serve them that better then serves their clients. Amy Yeah, because as you touch on then, I can imagine, you know, as a solo, you know, you are in this really solo doing, as said, the coaching clients one on one, it's that one on one work. And then it can be equally lonely and isolating at the same time. Yeah. And you're almost taking on all of everybody else's problems and energetically absorbing that. So why is your outlet, which would be a community like Fly? Serena Yeah, we all need community. And, you know, sometimes we don't feel like we're talking to our people. And that could be, you know, our partners, you know, we can love them, and we can still do stuff with them. Working on a business is really personal. And when you know, I know that I get energised by being in like minded company, especially when it comes to doesn't mean that I don't disagree with people, but to have a mindset in the same, you know, working in the same direction as others, I get energised from it. So bringing that community together, specifically, where we've all got different talents brings together better collaboration, better, better inspiration, an opportunity to feel safe in an environment to test out ideas, to again, you know, build a richer service. And I think, you know, that's, that's what will make it less isolating. the long run. Amy And even in some of our communications, you know, we highlight we are more connected than ever before by digital, but then also more lonely, perhaps, and isolated than ever before. I am now going to ask you three questions on the spot from our Really Good Conversations packs of cards. Question number one. What is one of your pet hates? Serena Arrogance. you know it all. You know, you're talking to somebody and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that. I know that. Someone who really has an inability to listen and to learn. Amy Question number two, what are your parents' personalities like? Goodness. I mean, my dad, what is his personality like? Well, he's loud and he's brash. And he's full of laughter, to be fair. Yeah, he's a very, very focused go-getter type individual and, you know, like a bulldog. Amy I should get him on the podcast because he is actually originally, he's Australia and built a life outside of Australia, etc. I mean, we could start a whole other episode about your dads life. Serena And my mother is so knowledgeable and quietly knowledgeable. Almost that generation of you know, it almost excuses me for being so talented. Mum is modest, but so intelligent. Yeah, she's just a really good source of knowledge and so kind. so she's, she's one punch, you know, tolerance. Amy I've obviously known you for a number of years and I don't think I've ever met your parents in person. don't think I'd love to because they sound like such a hoot, the stories I've heard. And question number three, if you came with a warning label, what would it say? Serena God. Maybe I should ask you that question. What would it say? Amy You're probably thinking, what am I prepared to say on a recording? Yikes! How much do I want to give away? I think don't underestimate.. I think that's what it is. underestimate. Amy And the listeners can fill in their imagination. The third question that I like to ask all of our guests is if you could ask a person dead or alive a question, who would it be and what would you ask them? Serena Right. The person that came to my mind when I saw this initially, this is a tough one. It is. Because I think back in my 20s, I would have had loads of people who had died. I tell you, when I thought of this person, I went onto his Instagram. So I have a real respect for someone in the States called Marcus Lemonis. Marcus Lemonis had a television program called The Prophet, not because he's a successful businessman, and not because he has a television program called the profit, which is very much like, the apprentice, but far more hands on someone comes to the, someone comes to him, for, mentorship, and investment and all of that. And he works with them to help build their businesses. But what I love about him is the way that he manages confrontation is exceptional. And so if I got to meet him, I think it would just be like one of those genie questions. Can I have three more? Can I have three more questions? I would say, can we go out for dinner? Yeah. So I can pick your brain. I think that that's who I would ask someone alive. And Marcus Lemonis would be it because I just find his story really interesting and I love the way that he handles very difficult situations. Amy Thank you so much for everything you have shared today, Serena. It's always a joy to chat to you. Where can our listeners find out more about you? Serena you can go to my website, which is serenadod.com or check me out on Instagram. I am serendodd and from there you can find all the other aspects of what I do. Amy Go down the digital rabbit hole. Perfect. I will include all of those links in the notes as well. But yeah, I've loved our conversation. Thank you. Serena I've loved it too, thanks Amy. Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information on today's guests. And if really good conversations are your thing, hit subscribe and join us next time for more business journeys, insights and banter.

Kate Toon is an award-winning entrepreneur, author and digital marketing expert. But in 2024, after building a thriving online business, she did something unexpected; she bought a struggling bookshop in her beachside town of Umina Beach. In this honest and entertaining conversation, Kate shares how burnout, curiosity, and a craving for real-world connection led her to make a bold pivot from online courses and passive income to running a bricks-and-mortar bookshop. We talk about the risks, the realities, and the rewards of stepping into something completely different. Kate also opens up about the early days of motherhood and business, how much pressure we put on ourselves to "do it all", and why her book Six Figures in School Hours is really about letting go of guilt and embracing what's realistic. Kate's journey from the UK to Australia as a backpacker Starting her first business when she was 5 months pregnant Why her book 'Six Figures in School Hours' is really a book about working parents having forgiveness, not hustle The bold (and slightly mad) decision to buy a struggling bookshop The real numbers behind digital business vs bricks-and-mortar retail How motherhood reshaped Kate's relationship with work, identity, and ambition The importance of doing things that bring joy, even if they don't "scale" Why reinvention doesn't need a 5-year plan; just a willingness to take the next step Whether you're a business owner craving a change, a parent trying to balance it all, or just someone who loves a good reinvention story; this episode is full of wisdom, warmth, and plenty of laughs along the way. For more information on Kate Toon: https://www.katetoon.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/katetoon/ The Umina Beach Book Nook: https://uminabeachbooknook.com.au/ Episode Transcript: Amy Welcome to the Really Good Conversations podcast. Today, I am joined by Kate Toon, award-winning entrepreneur, author, mentor, speaker, and digital marketing expert. In 2024, she added bookshop owner to her portfolio after purchasing a struggling bookshop in her hometown, the Umina Beach Book Nook. Welcome to the podcast, Kate. Kate I am very excited to be here. I'm just going to warn the audience that both of us are Northern. As this podcast goes on, we will get more Northern. Subtitles can be provided. Ha! Amy Well, actually, I've got to say that when I do put any audio into the likes of chat GPT, it picks me up as Welsh. It can't understand me. Kate Yeah, well, that just shows AI has a long way to go. Amy Definitely. Well, you touched on that. You are a fellow Brit and we are chatting here in Australia. So first up, tell us a little bit about how you have ended up in Australia. Kate I was a backpacker, so I came out,I was supposed to be in Thailand, but my travel partner after a week fell in love with a Thai boy called Bang, great name, and off they went to Bang. And I came to Australia and I ran out of money after about two weeks and I got a job at Ogilvy as the head of digital production, which sounded very fancy, I wasn't qualified for it. And they eventually sponsored me, I went back to the UK and then came back here just as the Olympic Games were happening, 1999, with a partner that I put in a box and brought with me, and then we had our son, and I've been here ever since. Amy Wow, fantastic. I love that and it's impressive to get a role like that wandering in as a backpacker. Kate They soon regretted it. It's the only job where I've been demoted as the word rather than promoted. So people came in above and above me because I was like 25. You know, I started the job and all I had was one Portman's skirt and a pair of flip flops, which I had to, you know, wash each day and bring back in. I didn't know what I was doing, you know, but the thing is, when you come from England and you at that era, we were so far ahead in terms of digital marketing that I seemed dead clever and they quickly realised I wasn't. Amy That's brilliant. You actually developed and started your first business in 2008 before the arrival of your son. So take us back to those early years and how you started that business journey. Kate Well, yeah, I was kind of contracting for different ad agencies at that point, sort of as a senior producer, general manager, hating it, absolutely hating it. And I had wanted to get pregnant for a while and we were told that we couldn't get pregnant. So I'd kind of given up on that. And I thought, my God, I'm going to have to be a career woman and I hate my career. So this is brilliant. And then fantastically, I got pregnant. And that enabled me to leave my job because I didn't want to do the long hours, the advertising demands and have a human, especially since I wanted that human. So I gave up my job when I was about five months pregnant and I had no idea how to run a business. I'd been in the corporate world all my life. And I just started out as kind of a do-anything person. So I was building people's websites. I was making logos, but I didn't know how to use Photoshop. So I did them in PowerPoint. Built some very bad WordPress websites and slowly just moved more and more into copywriting. And then from copywriting into SEO copywriting and Google writing, which was really innovative back then, 100 years ago. And that was it, I started just as a freelancer. So when then my son was born and those first two or three years were absolutely miserable and then carried on from there. Amy fantastic. You've developed multiple revenue streams since then and you've got a number of books, some of them titled Six Figures in School Hours and Six Figures Whilst You Sleep. Tell us how have you managed it all with being a mother and developing these businesses? Kate To be honest, not very well. The Six Figures in School Hours is the book I wish I had had when I was trying to do it. And it's not necessarily about becoming a super being and finding all these efficiencies to do things faster and better and writing social media posts while you're breastfeeding. It's about forgiveness. It's about mom guilt. It's about making the most of the time that you have and being realistic about the time you have.but also realising the mantra from the book is the world will wait. You know, I felt such a sense of urgency when I had my son when he was two or three that I needed to keep going. I was going to lose my place before going to get ahead of me. And really nothing effective happened until he went to school. And now he's 16 and I'm still here doing stuff and I've got many years left. And if I'd have done everything five years ago, I'd have nothing left to do. So it's like the world will wait, be patient. You will get there but it's going to take you a bit longer than somebody who can work 40 hours a week. And that's okay, right? So it's really, that book is a book about forgiveness, which I slowly learned, but I wish I'd learned it a lot earlier, you know. Amy Yeah, and it feels so relatable to where I am right now, because my little one's three and a half. Yeah. And I did actually, as I said to you before, when we chatted, have listened to the audio book of that, that book, because it is in those early years, you're looking for the nuggets, the golds, the how am going to do all of this, because you're trying to do and be everything. Kate But also it's an identity thing. When you become a mum, it can be all consuming and you're like, yeah, but I still want to be me and I still want to do my things. And therefore I need to push harder because I've lost something by becoming a mum. It's a weird way that we're judged as being mothers. It's the best thing in the world, but also it's the worst thing in the world. So you're pushing yourself even harder rather than saying, I chose to make a human. I can take a little break. It's all going to be OK. It feels like it's all going to slip away. But it isn't. It isn't at all. If people wanted you before you had a baby, people will want you again and probably more because you'll have more experience, more empathy, more understanding. You're a better person often, you know, because you've had more trials and tribulations and so you'll be more desirable post-child, you know. Amy Yeah, I absolutely love what you've got on your current website, like the timeline of your journey and your businesses. And it is just a great little snapshot. I think actually you've probably covered a bit of advice points then, but what key pieces of advice would you give to others, whether it's mums trying to juggle life and business? Kate I think the main thing is to stop kidding yourself. You know, like you think, well, I'm dropping him off at daycare at eight and I'm picking him up at two or whatever it may be, or I'm dropping them off at school and I'm picking him up. And you're like, wait, great. I've got six hours. You haven't got six hours. By the time you've driven home, gone to Coles, put the stuff in the fridge, set the washing machine, go and add a wee, scrolls, do scrolls for half an hour, done a little bit of work. It's time to pick them up again. know, realistically, I worked out and it was all worked out in the book that most Kate Mums or parents I should say because it's not just mums. You have a kid or kids in preschool or school have about 15 productive hours a week. Productive billable money making hours. So if you want to make six grand a month from your business you're charging $100 an hour. It's simple maths but the problem is we think we've got 20 and we don't then hit 20 and we're not making enough. We're like we must be doing something wrong. We're doing something. Why aren't I making as much money as I should? Because you're never going to. You were never going to, you didn't have the time in the first place. And also that something's got to give, that time has to come from somewhere and it's either going to come from your relationship, from your child, from your health and wellbeing. So the better thing to do is accept you've got 15 hours a week and just accept that, you know, someone else might have 30. Great. What they achieve in one week, you achieve in two. Still all right, isn't it? Still fine. Amy Yeah, gosh, well, that is refreshing to hear, you know, you are actually taking the weight off me. Because I think, you know, I started agency world as well, many moons ago, and I think we are sort of slightly trained to it's sort of, you know, it's deadlines, it's timelines, it's being reactive constantly, never leaving a client waiting, you know, just sort of you're on the go, go, go. Yeah. And certainly work was not, you know, nine to five. And then I feel like I mean, the era of you always trying to re-untrain all of that to be now what is actually realistic. Kate I mean, it's an excellent training ground. You know, I think one of my key reasons for success was that brutal agency training land where every hour had to be accounted for, do your time sheets, go, go, go. It was a hideous environment to work with and I'm very glad that I'm out of it, but it was excellent skills to bring into the arena. But it is a different arena with different combatants and different weapons and we can't treat it the same. One of the things people say to me a lot is, I really want to make the income I made when I had a real job. That's my goal, right? To match that income. And I'm like, why? Why is that your goal? You don't have to commute. You don't have to wear a bra. You don't have to put your tuna casserole in the microwave and talk to Gavin. You don't have to have a boss. You don't have to have board meetings. Surely that takes at least 20 grand, 30 grand off your income goals because you are at home. You're your own boss. You can do what you want. That is worth some money. So again, setting these unrealistic goals. No one cares as well. No one's judging me. Everyone thinks what you're doing now is impressive. Most people can't even run their own business. They give up and they do something else. I think we're trying to, we had a laugh at the beginning when he said, how shall I introduce you? And he had written this about all my things. And I said, yes, Kate, who's an overachiever and desperately wants to impress everybody. And no one cares. And you get to my age, I'm 51, even I don't care now. I did when I was younger, but I don't even care now. Yeah, I think we just put an awful lot of pressure on ourselves. Amy Do you think that thinking, that confidence, you know, comes with age and time? Kate Comes with age. I was an absolute idiot in my early 30s and definitely in my 20s, know, emotionally unstable, making daft decisions, you know, worrying a lot, a lot of pressure. And I still am all those things, but I'm slightly, slightly better, slightly more measured. I'm able to sort of take a breath. You know, I always think that you can, some people react after they've done something daft, two weeks later, like, oh, that was dumb. Some people react like two days later. Some people catch themselves in the middle of the storm. Some people catch themselves just before the storm starts and some people see the storm coming. And I'm at the point now where I see the storm coming. I'm like, Aye, aye, you're about to make a big mistake because you're getting all het up and your chest is all pumping and you haven't slept well enough. This is not a day to be making big decisions, you know? So it takes a while. But I used to be the person who two months later would go, that was daft. So it's taken me a long time to pull myself all the way back. Amy Yeah, that's a brilliant insight. And what have been some of the biggest turning points on your business journey? Kate Well, I think one was when I went to a conference. I'm not a big conference person. And it was my first conference I went to and it's called Pro Blogger and a guy called Darren Rouse ran it. And it was really big back in the day. And they said, we are looking for people to be speakers on stage, just a 10 minute slot. And I was not happy with myself at that point. I was overweight, didn't like the way I looked. I hadn't really done any public speaking, but I put myself forward and I got picked. So I got to stand on stage in front of 500 people. And I just started to put together this kind of rough SEO course. I'd done it in person a couple of times. And the reaction to me on stage was so positive that I went home and that week made a little mini challenge. And within a week of putting that out there, I had 600 people on that challenge. And that was the start of my whole passive income. So that was like 2014, 2015. So that one little moment of bravery and thank you Darren Rouse, led to so much for me. Amy Wow. And sometimes it isn't until you just jump in the deep end. And like even when we, you know, we're launching the cards, we did a trade show in January 23 in London, with a week's notice. And I said to Alex, this is a fail fast situation. If we go to that trade show, and we could get to speak to people, we get some feedback, then we know if really good conversations has legs or not. Kate I think this is it. And I think this is why some entrepreneurs and I'm doing air fingers succeed because the meaning of entrepreneur is business owner who takes a risk. And I think a lot of people are scared. They don't want to look a fool. They don't want to be a failure. They don't want to be laughed at. You've got to be willing to look a fool. Because in the end, you will have the last laugh, you know, while everyone else is sitting there going, it's never going to work. It's never going to work. You're at the trade show doing the thing. Whether you sell a million packs of the cards or 10, it's still an amazing experience because you did it. know, so you've got to not be on the sidelines. You've got to be in the arena, like we just said, fighting the tigers. Amy I think you are no stranger to change and being adaptable. We've touched on that from your personal professional life. But a recent change for you has been the purchase of this bookshop. So tell us how this has come about, because as we said, you've been very much in a digital space for a while. So how have you ended up buying a bookshop? Kate Again, not a considered experience, not even people like, oh, that's a dream. And I'm like, it wasn't my dream. I love books. I love that. But running and I've always liked the idea of having a little shop at a market or a little store, but it's not like I've been burning to buy a bookshop and Googling bookshops in any way. literally had closed down a part of my business because I was stressed out and bored and a bit burned out with it. And it was two days after I completely finished. It took me months because I had to, you know, People had memberships, I had to refund people. was a big, know, extricating yourself from an ongoing concern is hard, right? It was two days after and I was having a walk down the beach with my coffee. It was like 10 o'clock and I was on the beach. And I got an email from the bookshop saying, we're closing in a week unless anyone can save us. And so I first went in and offered to invest. So glad I didn't do that. And then she was like, no, no, I'm done. And I said, okay, how much is it? And it was, it wasn't cheap, but it wasn't ridiculous. You know, it was doable. Kate And so I thought, I'll regret, you only regret what you don't do. I'll give it a pop. If it fails, it fails. And believe me, it's been pretty hard. But I'm a year and a half in now and it's starting to turn around, but it's been really hard, you know? And I'm old and I'm tired and I'm not very used to dealing with humans day to day in person. So it's been super challenging. Amy Yeah, I mean, it does sound like a bit of a serendipitous moment that you said you were closing the other part of the business. Kate One door closes and another opens. Amy Literally. But you did say people thought you were a bit mad. What did give you the confidence to persevere and think, no, I'm going to do. Kate Yeah Well, I rang my accountant and I tried to take the rational steps, you know, I looked at the accounts but the accounts were awful and basically showed that it was not making any money, hence the woman had had to sell it, you know. I looked at the Google reviews, they were terrible. The shop, to me, looked kind of in a state of sort of disrepair, like it had been beautiful but it started to get that little shabbiness to it. And so it was like, this is a terrible, terrible idea. I rang my accountant and he said, it's a terrible idea, you will never make any money, you should absolutely do it. And at that point, I also had a financial advisor and I said, look, I feel like it's my midlife crisis. This is going to cost me about as much as two Harley Davidson motorbikes. And if I was a 52 year old man, 51 year old man, that's what I would do. But instead I'm going to do this. And I guess I do, it's not arrogance, but I do have an innate confidence that everything will kind of be okay. Like even if it fails and I lose money and I shut it in a year. It was still, that's still okay. Still did it. Still had a go. I enjoyed it. I do enjoy it an awful lot, you know, so that's important. Amy I think it is just another chapter. always say like the Kate Chapter, like, Another chapter. Look at you. Amy It's part of the tapestry of life, all these interesting and different things. if you didn't do it, you'd probably forever walk... Well, you'd either see it knocked down. Kate Yeah, you'd wonder and I think I was, you know, it was serendipitous. I was a little bit over the online space. I did feel like I wanted a community. My son is 15 - 16. He's getting to that age where he doesn't want to spend time with me. You know, I'm not his best mate anymore. Oh, don't say that. Don't talk to me about it. I will actually cry. Don't be nice. He's lovely. He's a wonderful son. But of course he wants his independence. And I needed a little something something. Whether it was in a global economic crisis in the middle of nowhere, besides the toilet, with financial issues. I'm not sure that was the right somethings something, but it was the something I chose. I could have had an affair, that would have been a slightly more economical approach but I couldn't bother. Amy But how has that transition been from digital space, where you can measure ROI, see spend out, see spend, see everything quite clearly, I guess, in digital worlds. You know, how has it been to transition that into bricks and mortar and also the reality of this physical costs before you've even opened the door? Kate Well, it's just a completely different business. So my, you know, my whole second book is about passive income and how to turn your skills into courses and memberships. And in there, I actually give all my financials, how much I earn in every launch, how much I spent on my profit margin. And the thing about digital is my profit margin was ridiculous. So on average business, 5 % is 10 % is good, 20 % is amazing. Mine was 55 % profit margins. That's after everything is done. That's ridiculous money. And also you're selling to a lot of people, you know? So much easier, much better, but there's only so much, I've launched my SEO course 31 times. I'm done. Do you know what mean? I just literally can't do it anymore. The shop is different. the retail is not much money in it. I will never make much beyond 10 % profit. Like, and that's okay. I'll pay my team, I'll pay my staff, might even pay myself. But I knew that going into it. But the difference is, yes, with online, you can view the cold data. But what you can't view is the warm faces. Now that sounds like a cheesy line that I wrote before I came on. But there is nothing like getting some new stock in and seeing someone come in and appreciate it to know that that stock's gonna go. Or someone come in and go, why have you bought that? And with digital, you're trying to have that. You're trying to A-B test and do you want it? I'm teasing you. Do you want this small version of it before I sell you a big version? And if you're trying to have that experience, but I get Maureen coming in saying, what the hell are they? And that's more powerful and easier to manage in a way. So the pros and cons. We all want that, don't we? A little bit. I'm not a massive people person. I am quite introverted. So I can't work in the shop every day. I really, really can't. It's quite a performance. I do get to wear outfits, which I'm quite excited about. After 10 years of sitting there with no bra on in my pyjamas, it's nice to go out. But there's only so much I can do. Yeah, it is nice and I do feel really part of the community in a way that I never have. Amy Yeah, I was going to ask what have you seen the bookshop do for the community? Kate Well, I've really made that the conscious thing because I was actually before when I dropped that bit of the business, I was actually going to volunteer to work in an old people's home, which deals with people with dementia for two days a week. So II want to start giving something back. And then I bought the bookshop. And so the attitude with the bookshop is I'm giving something back. So we have free story time. We give books to the old people's home. We do three different book clubs. We have events at the shop, you know, like Friendships have been forged at the shop that have then gone further. I'm also trying to get the whole community going. So we tried to do Christmas in your minor last year. We had bands outside the shop and we tried to get people to do late night shopping. And it's hard because a lot of the other retail stores have been there for a while and they're slightly jaded. Here's me coming in all like a little happy Labrador and they're like, that won't work. And for the large part they were right, but I'm still going to be a happy Labrador. So yeah, just that's the point. Like I wanted to feel like really safe space, which I know sounds a bit wonky, but you know, down to like having our LGBTQI symbol, dogs are allowed in, the whole shop has a layout so you can get a wheelchair around it and a pram around it. Just trying to consider things like that. It makes it less than just trying to flog a book. Amy Yeah, and it becomes a real hub and a destination. We touched on, we're from the north of England and, that's where you had like the butchers, the fishmongers, Kate That's what we know, isn't The proper high street. When I say high street here, people don't know what I'm talking about. It's called West Street, not high street. I'm like, no, no, no. It's the street in your town where there's the butchers, the newsagents, the sweetie shop, you know, and you go home after school and you, you know, like we remember that. And that's why I'm trying to recreate absolutely that kind of Northern English, honey town sort of thing. And that's why I hope I have created. People come in and say, so cozy, it's so cute. Amy Yeah, that's brilliant. Because what do you think, you know, the modern day shopper is actually missing online? Like the reality is we are now in this space where everyone's buying everything online. They want it instantly. No one's prepared to wait for anything. And obviously, see even more so in the UK, like the M1 is just like huge warehouses. Like, unfortunately, that's now the British High Street is going to just become more of these warehouses. But for those listening, what would you say to encourage them of what they're missing when it comes to physical shops? Kate Well, I think, you know, it's the same way that people still buy vinyl, even though there's no justification for it. Literally, there is no reason to buy a book from us. You can get it for half the price it came at. You can get it for the same price on Amazon, but tomorrow. And sometimes with us, you have to wait a week. So literally, we have no competitive advantage at all. All we have is someone comes to the shop, and this happens a lot. They're kind of wandering, because we've got kind of a good street appeal. They're wandering, like, God, I've not read a book in years. And we have like, we all go over and say, oh, you might like this and you might like this. And then we give them entryway books and easy books and we have a conversation and then they like that book and they're like, wow, if they pick that one for me, maybe this next one. But also just coming in and having a laugh. You know, sometimes people come in and just talk about their day and especially older people as well. But mums with small children, you know what it's like when you've got like a two, three year old, you're literally with an inanimate annoying blob that's putting their fingers in everything all day. And then the next day you have to do it all day again. So if you can go in somewhere and we've got a kids play area with some toys you can put your kid down for a few minutes and have a little chat and look at some books. Sometimes that's enough. Amy Absolutely yes I definitely can resonate but how have you found being an author and an owner of a bookshop I mean are you separating yourself as well from what stock you're choosing you know how does that all work? Kate I'm not. I'm not separating myself. has to, you know, each bookshop is a representation of the person who owns it. It really is. It's a representation of the community. So,I know the guy who runs the Wallara Bookshop in Sydney and the types we went to a day where they show all the books coming out and the books that he was ticking, that he was going to order were not the books I was ticking, that I was going to order because my community is different. They don't want, you know, books on Bolivian architecture necessarily. They want the latest cool Stephen King book or Patricia Woolf. So it is a reflection of me and it is a reflection of the community. In terms of what I've learned about the publishing industry, just that it's incredibly hard. They say in Australia to be a bestseller, need to 5,000 books, which is not that many. But then there's people like Trent Dalton who's sold 350,000 books. But not everyone's going to be Trent Dalton. Kate And what I think is the hardest thing to see is debut novelists and they have spent like three years writing this novel and sure we get it and we sell a few, but then after six months it's gone. And it'd be very hard for us to sell it again unless we've read it and loved it. And just the volume of books that come through the shop and maybe once in a while there's one that sticks and that does well. But the publishers try to create that, curate that experience, try to engineer that experience, but often it has nothing to do with the books that they say are going to be successful. It's just weird books that come up on Book Talk or just get a ground spot of popularity. But it's interesting and fascinating, a bit depressing, but also quite inspiring as well. Because when one of these new books comes out and it does do well, it's like, wow, we love that book too. And look, we're part of its success. And it's cool. Amy Yeah, that's fascinating. What prompted you to actually write books in the first place? You've done five or six books now? Kate I just want to be a writer. Really all of this arsing about with advertising and digital is just me waiting until I have enough confidence, experience and money in the bank that I can stop and write novels. So that's all I've ever wanted to do. My first book was a book of poetry. My second book was a kid's book. And then I wrote business books, which obviously essentially are a lead magnet and the profile builder. I have made money out of my last two because I've got a professional publisher. You know, I've got a real publisher who had them at the airport, you know, which is the ultimate thing. But, you know, I'm doing another book which is coming out in March, the end of the trilogy, the Six Figure Trilogy. And I really, really do hope to write my novel. And, you know, my vision of myself as an old lady in a cardigan, working in the bookshop a few days a week and then spending the other days writing books, that would be my dream. Amy Wow, but this bookshop purchase just feels like the real right time, was because you're now going to be immersed in all of these novels. You're going to be inspired more and more to build that confidence. Kate But also maybe have a few contacts and I think I'll be able to know a few publishers. Maybe the door will be... Because the door is very closed, you know, it's very hard to get in and you do find there's a degree of nepotism or someone knows somebody and I don't know anybody, do you know what mean? So maybe it'll be easier for me, maybe it won't. Maybe when I actually sit down to write my novel I won't be a very good writer of novels and then I'll have a real rude awakening. I guess this is kind of the theme of this whole show, we started off talking about like, you know, decisions and how you decide to do things and turning points, kind of just stumbling along and someone goes, do you want to do this? And I'm like, all right. And being vaguely yes and being willing to take risks as you trade show, things happen to people who do things. Things don't happen to people who do nothing, you know? Amy Many people think about taking a risk or think about change, but then they never take the leap. So what advice would you give someone who is standing at a bit of a crossroads or got some ideas? How would you encourage them to make the change? Kate Look, I'm not going to be flipping here. It's easier at this stage of my life to make decisions when I have a little bit of financial wherewithal, money is important. I'm in no way saying it isn't and security and we're Northern English, right? And I'm working class. So money and my attitude to money is very much don't be risky. Don't get a credit card. Don't be splashy with your cash. Right? So it's mitigated risk.. You know, wouldn't I go out and order 70 grand worth of stock of a product that I haven't even tried in a trade show. No, do you know what I mean? But you take small little leaps over time and give yourself time as well. And instead of thinking what's the worst that could happen, I think it's really important to think what is the best that could happen. My attitude has always been if the worst comes to the worst, because I was a secretary in a VA and an EA for a long time, if the worst comes to the worst, even though it wasn't the worst, I quite enjoyed it, I could always go back and be a secretary. and I would have an okay income and I would be all right. I could go and get a job in Waitrose. sorry, we don't have Waitrose here. I wouldn't get into Waitrose. I'm not posh enough. I always thought well I could do that and I'd be okay, I'd be okay. And so knowing that you could got that to fall back on helped me in the early days. And now I have this sense of, I just look back and go you cope with that and you cope with that and you cope to that you're gonna be all right. Do you know what mean? It will all be all right. And that might sound like arrogance, but I think it's just lived experience. Amy Yeah. Oh, that's brilliant. Oh, well, thank you so much for everything you've shared so far. I'm now going to put you on the spot and ask you a couple of questions from my Really Good Conversations pack So question number one, what is one of your pet hates? Kate In business or just in life? Always. People being late. Really get some white tits. Yeah. Amy Any others? Because you said business or life. Kate No, it's really people being late, you know, and yet often I'm late. So that's really hypocritical and selfish. Amy Question number two, what is the most embarrassing thing you have ever done? Kate This is a long story, but I'll tell it quickly. I speak a lot and I had this week where I spoke at five or six different hotels and I was exhausted and delirious. And I went to bed and it was so hot. So rarely I took all my clothes off. Like usually I keep my knickers on Amy, you know, just in case of spiders and stuff. Took all my clothes off, fell on the bed, fell asleep, woke up in the middle of the desperate for a wee, opened the door, went to the toilet and the door clunked behind me. And it wasn't the toilet door, it was the hotel door and I was in the corridor and it was 2am and had to eventually go down to reception completely naked and get them to let me back into my room. The thing is, I'd love to say that was 10 years ago when I was an idiot. It was months ago. Amy Brilliant. Love it. Kate But you know what as well? That is literally the stuff of nightmares. Other than all your teeth falling out or having to do your history exam again and you haven't revised. That is the worst nightmare, being naked in public. And you know what? It happened. It wasn't that bad. Yeah. It was alright. You know, you survived it. Amy I'll have to compose myself for the next one. Question number three. If you came with a warning label, what would it say? Kate I was gonna say something about biting because I do bite people sometimes. She looks nicer than she is maybe. People think I'm really nice to have big eyes and I kind of have an open face. But I can be quite a cow sometimes or probably just she's tired don't talk to her. That would be another good one. Amy Brilliant. Fantastic. The last question that I love to ask all of our guests is if you could ask any person dead or alive a question, who would it be and what would you ask them? Kate I don't want to get emotional now, but it would probably be my dad who passed away this year. And, you know, no matter how many conversations we had, I would give anything to have one more chat with him, to go to the pub, eat some crisps and have a beer. I don't know what I'd ask him. I'd want to ask him something like, have I been a good daughter? And he'd probably say, shut up. But I don't know. I'd like, I just miss being able to ask my dad advice because he was very Northern, very to the point that he was always on the nail, you know? So I think it would be my dad. Amy I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you. And to wrap up, know, what's next for you and how can people find you and connect with you? What's on the horizon? Kate On the Horizon is my next book and then, I'm kind of doing a complete rebrand. So I'm going into my little cocoon over the next six months and I'm trying to shed basically what made me successful, SEO and copywriting. I'm trying to a degree, put them behind me because I'm kind of done with them now and I want to evolve into a new, more kind of generic, businessy, coachy, warm-y, I hate the word coach, but just not so literally, I'm going to teach you SEO, I'm going to teach you copy more. I'm going to teach you how to win customers and enjoy your business without relying on ads and without being a git, basically. I need to work on my USP, clearly. So I'm going to do that. And then the book comes out in March. And that will be a lot of fun. And then hopefully, write my real book, my novel. Amy I'll include links in the show notes as well. But thank you so much for your time today. It's really been such a fun conversation and we could have chatted for hours longer, but I've been good at keeping us on time. Thanks so much. Bye bye. Kate Thanks Amy Amy Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information on today's guests. And if really good conversations are your thing, hit subscribe and join us next time for more business journeys, insights and banter.

What happens when you bring military discipline, strategic thinking and straight-talking honesty into the boardroom? In this episode, Amy chats with Marcus Dimbleby, a former Royal Air Force officer who now helps businesses make smarter decisions, faster. After 24 years in the military, Marcus transitioned into corporate coaching and consultancy, bringing with him a no-nonsense approach shaped by combat zones, critical thinking, and high-stakes leadership. We talk about Applied Critical Thinking, Red Team Thinking, and why most business strategies fail before they begin. Marcus shares what surprised him most when he left the military, how he helps leaders slow down to speed up, and why ineffective meetings are costing companies more than they realise. He also reflects on his recent move to Cyprus, how Mediterranean life reinforces his principles, and why mindset, clarity and adaptability matter more than ever. Key Topics Discussed: Marcus' journey from military to corporate life Slow down to speed up: How clear thinking upfront leads to faster, better decisions later Why most business strategies fail before they begin Discipline starts with self: Military leadership is built on responsibility and looking after your team Mindset drives results: Prioritise ruthlessly and lead with adaptability to thrive in change. It's a wide-ranging, insight-packed episode from someone who's seen leadership from every angle. For more information on Marcus: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcusdimbleby/ Effecitve Direction https://www.effectivedirection.com/ Episode Transcript: Amy: Welcome to the Really Good Conversations podcast, Marcus Dimbleby. Marcus is a former Royal Air Force officer turned corporate coach, trainer, and consultant. After 20 years in the military, he now helps businesses make smarter decisions faster, bringing military precision and critical thinking to the boardroom. Welcome, Marcus. Marcus: Thank you, Amy. Wonderful to be here. I'm looking forward to a really good conversation. Amy: Me too. I love that we're connecting across the world. I'm sat in Sydney and you're in Cyprus. Marcus: Both northerners from the UK. I love that. Amy: Exactly! I really enjoy how this podcast brings me together with people based all over the place. Marcus: That's awesome. Amy: Before we dive into the topics for today, can you share a little more about your background and what led you to a career in the military? Marcus: Sure. I did 24 years in the military. I joined straight out of school. It all started when I was around eight or nine, going to air shows with my dad. We'd go to Church Fenton and Linton-on-Ouse in the north. I remember watching Vulcans and Phantoms roaring overhead, shaking the ground. I knew then I wanted to be part of that world. I joined the Air Cadets. There was no plan B. You had to be 17 and a half to join as an officer, so I finished my O Levels at 16, went to sixth form to wait it out, then left at 18. My mum asked, "What if you don't pass?" and I said, "There is no option." Luckily, it all worked out. Amy: Did you go on to fly those jets? Marcus: No. In the cadets, I had a flying scholarship and flew solo at 17. In testing, I scored 95% for pilot and 98% for fighter control. They offered me a place as a fighter controller. I still wanted to be a pilot, but I decided to go along and try. During a four-month holding stint, I was placed with 74 Squadron flying Phantoms. The pilots all said, "Don't do fighter control, be a pilot." I intended to fail the course and switch, but I ended up loving it. I think if I'd been a pilot, I might have made a mess of it. Fighter control turned out to be a great fit. Amy: That's fascinating. As your military career came to an end, what motivated you to move into the corporate world? How did your early experiences shape your consulting approach? Marcus: At 42, the options to stay weren't appealing. I was pensionable and young enough to try something new. I resigned without a plan. I looked at everything — from John Lewis to Virgin Airways — to really understand what was out there. Eventually, I met a senior risk officer at Morgan Stanley. He told me to get into consulting, that it would demilitarise me and broaden my view. I ended up joining Capgemini, intent on learning. I wanted to understand government, corporate, and commercial life — properly leaving the military, unlike many who stay in defence roles. Amy: What surprised you most about corporate life? Marcus: Honestly, how little people know what they're doing. I planned to observe quietly, but within two weeks I had to get involved. Many just wing it. There's a lack of structured training, which is the norm in the military. I quickly realised I wasn't the naive one. Amy: I had a similar feeling after uni. My sandwich course helped, but once in business, it's mostly shadowing and guessing. Marcus: That's common. Luckily, in our consultancy, the senior partner admired military people and trusted us. He gave us responsibility early on, which helped us grow fast. Amy: Your business, Effective Direction, is grounded in applied critical thinking. Can you explain what that means? Marcus: It's about thinking on purpose. People think all the time, but that doesn't mean they're thinking critically. We teach four core principles. First, slow down to think intentionally. Based on Dr Daniel Kahneman's work, system one is fast and intuitive, but error-prone. System two is logical and effortful. Engaging system two leads to better decisions. Second, challenge assumptions. We move too fast, so we accept assumptions without questioning. Most strategies are built on wishful thinking. When you dig in, they're shaky. Third, engage diverse perspectives. This is the real enabler of diversity and inclusion. It's no good having diversity if people aren't heard. This approach ensures all voices contribute. Finally, make decisions based on clarity, not comfort. People often rush decisions that feel safe but aren't well-informed. Slowing down leads to better long-term outcomes. Amy: That all sounds like common sense. Marcus: It is. I call it face-palm coaching. People know it, but they don't apply it. Everyone's too busy. Amy: Even meetings are often ineffective. People show up without an agenda or clear purpose. Marcus: Meetings are a scourge. They're badly run. People spend 30 to 65% of their time in meetings, and 90% of those are useless. Amy: I mentioned before that my neighbour said, "Indecision kills." He gets frustrated when we can't decide where to go for dinner. Marcus: Exactly. Not deciding is still a decision. Leaders are paid to make big calls but are often afraid. That fear blocks progress. We encourage leaders to unleash their people, involve them, and seek feedback. It's not about doing everything yourself. Amy: I've seen you talk about red teaming. What is that? Marcus: Red teaming is applying critical thinking to challenge a strategy, plan, or idea. It comes from the military. Red is the enemy, blue is friendly. We'd simulate what the enemy would do in response to our moves. In business, we do the same. We pull a plan apart, challenge every assumption, and then rebuild it with clarity. It's not to destroy the plan but to make it better. Without red teaming, a plan might have a 20% success rate. With it, 80% or more. Amy: You also co-authored the manual Big Things Fast. What can leaders learn from it? Marcus: It's a practical field guide based on real-world application. The first key principle is to focus on priority, not priorities. If you have ten, you have none. Next is to diagnose slowly to execute efficiently. Like Einstein said, "Spend most of the hour thinking about the problem." Slow down to speed up. The third is growth needs sceptics and idealists. You need constructive tension between realism and optimism. Lastly, mindset matters. People first, always. You get buy-in when people are involved, not just told what to do. Amy: What are the biggest blockers to change? Marcus: Two main things: status quo bias and ineffective leadership. People want to stick with what's familiar. Leaders often resist adapting because they got where they are using outdated behaviours. Until that changes, it's hard for organisations to evolve. Amy: Leaders are under a lot of pressure. How do you stay calm? Marcus: I slow down. I ask, is anyone getting shot? No. Then relax. I also use what I call helicopters and rabbit holes. I get everyone to pull up to 5,000 feet and look down. It gives perspective and reduces panic. Amy: How has your military background shaped your leadership style? Marcus: It taught me self-discipline. In the military, you have to be squared away because your actions affect the people beside you. Adaptability is crucial too. No plan survives contact with the enemy, so you need to adjust fast. And always put people first. Amy: Would you support compulsory national service? Marcus: Yes. In Cyprus they still do it, and it shapes the young adults positively. In the UK, I think it's too late now, but I'd love to see more support for cadet-style programmes that teach structure and community. Amy: You recently moved to Cyprus. What inspired that? Marcus: Travel was always part of our plan. My wife got long COVID, and her doctor advised moving sooner. Our daughter was up for it, so we relocated. It's helped reinforce our philosophy of slowing down to speed up. We still work globally, but life is more balanced here. Amy: What advice would you give to someone leaving the military or making a big shift? Marcus: Don't be afraid. The military can scare people into thinking they'll fail outside. Take your time, do your research, and don't jump at the first offer. Understand your worth. Veterans bring leadership, adaptability, and discipline. Once you're out, forget the rank — observe, learn, and then contribute. Amy: Final question before we go to the cards. What's one thing the military gets right about leadership that businesses often get wrong? Marcus: Training. Real, quality training. From day one in the military, you're trained for every step in your career. Most businesses skip this. One executive told me he'd had three weeks of leadership training in 35 years. It shows. Invest in real development. Amy: Let's do three questions from our Really Good Conversations pack. First: what's the most remote place you've been? Marcus: The Falkland Islands. I did two four-month stints, stationed on top of a mountain with radar equipment, accessible only by helicopter. Isolated, harsh weather, but full of camaraderie. Amy: I bet you miss it. Marcus: Can't wait to go back… Amy: Second question. What's the secret to a long and happy relationship? Marcus: Communication. Conversation leads to connection. My wife and I always make time to talk — about everything. You need to say the hard stuff before it boils over. Keep the communication open. Amy: Final card. If you came with a warning label, what would it be? Marcus: Highly infectious. In a good way. Energy, enthusiasm, zest for life. Amy: Love it. One last question from me. If you could ask anyone, dead or alive, one question, who would it be? Marcus: Socrates. I'd ask, "In a world full of noise and opinion, how would you help leaders recover the art of questioning to uncover truth and make wise decisions?" Amy: Brilliant. Thank you so much, Marcus. Where can listeners find you? Marcus: LinkedIn — just search Marcus Dimbleby. Our website is effectivedirection.com and you can download our field guide at bigthingsfast.com. Amy: Fantastic. I'll include all the links in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining us. It really was a good conversation. Marcus: Thanks, Amy. A pleasure. Amy: Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, check out the show notes for more. And if Really Good Conversations are your thing, hit subscribe and join us next time for more business journeys, insights and banter.

"Most kids don't need therapy, they need their environment to change." In this episode of the Really Good Conversations podcast, Amy speaks with psychotherapist, parent coach, and author Nicole Runyon about modern parenting, child mental health, and the unseen impact of technology. In this honest conversation, Nicole explains why therapy isn't always the answer, and how children's behaviours are often a response to their environment, not a diagnosis. Drawing from her book Free to Fly, she shares insights into child development stages, screen time by age, and the long-term effects of permissive parenting. Nicole encourages parents to reclaim their role, delay exposure to tech, and prioritise everyday moments of connection to help their children grow into resilient, independent adults. Key Outtakes: Why the mental health industry may not want people to truly get well The problem with over-relying on therapy for anxious children How early screen use disrupts natural development stages Why discomfort and frustration are essential to growing resilience What parents can do to course-correct, even if they feel it's "too late" For more information: Nicole Runyon Website https://nicolerunyon.com/ Book: Free to Fly https://nicolerunyon.com/free-to-fly/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolerunyonlmsw/