Skaana with Mark Leiren-Young

Sometimes animals who hang out with humans need a vet. Sometimes they need a lawyer. The belugas at Marineland in Niagara Falls need both. Whales around the world need sanctuary. And sharks everywhere were saved by a Canadian law. Camille Labchuk, executive director of Animal Justice, returns to Skaana to talk with host Mark Leiren-Young about fighting for animals who live in the water and on the land. "Some things did change and they're going in the right direction." Made in Canada, eh 🍁To Support Camille Labchuk & Animal JusticeAnimal JusticeInstagramFacebookYouTubeTik TokHer first Skaana interview - talking about shark-finning and more in 2019To Support/follow Skaana:Subscribe to the Skaana newsletter on SubstackJoin and support the Pod at PatreonLinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramSkaana on iTunes… Skaana.ca & SpotifyTo Support/follow Mark:Subscribe to Mark Leiren-Young’s newsletter on SubstackLinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramThreadsBooks and classes for sale from Team Skaana**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!**Octopus Ocean by Mark Leiren-YoungSharks Forever by Mark Leiren-YoungAudiobooks by Mark Leiren-Young (Killer Whale Who Changed the World, Orcas Everywhere & Never Shoot a Stampede Queen) on Audible.comThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World – print and e-bookThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere; Orcas of the Salish Sea & Big Whales, Small World Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys BenuThe Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys BenuSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter at Substack: https://skaanapod.substack.com/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/skaana Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mark Leiren-Young reads the chapter about Jaws vs. shark from his award-winning book, Sharks Forever. Years after the movie based on his book was one of the biggest hits in the world, Peter Benchley said that in a new version of Jaws, the shark wouldn’t be the monster. “The shark in an updated Jaws could not be the villain; it would have to be written as the victim, for, worldwide, sharks are much more the oppressed than the oppressors.”Excerpt FromSharks ForeverMark Leiren-YoungThis material is protected by copyright.Made in Canada, eh 🍁Sharks Forever audiobook on Apple and SpotifySkaana on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramMark on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramThreadsShownotes:3:31 The start of the chapter on Jaws from Mark's book Sharks Forever. Chapter 9 – Great White Lies.4:45 A bounty for anyone who could prove they had been bitten by a shark.5:29 Jersey Shore sharks. Or sea turtles? The original killer great white.6:04 Shark myths created by Jaws. “The way that the shark behaves in the movie is not the way sharks behave.”6:30 The terrible and inaccurate “rogue shark” theory.6:51 The myths of Shark Week.9:32 Humans against nature – trophy hunters.11:45 “Years after the movie based on his book was one of the biggest hits in the world, Peter Benchley said that in a new version of Jaws, the shark wouldn’t be the monster. “The shark in an updated Jaws could not be the villain; it would have to be written as the victim, for, worldwide, sharks are much more the oppressed than the oppressors.””12:57 Sharknados and other fictional shark stories.Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.Skaana homepageMark's homepageJoin and support the Pod at PatreonSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter on SubstackSubscribe to Mark Leiren-Young's newsletter on SubstackSpotifyAppleThe Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor)Skaana on Medium……www.orcatales.comSkaana on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramMark on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramThreadsSupport Our GuestSkaana homepageMark's homepageJoin and support the Pod at PatreonSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter on SubstackSubscribe to Mark Leiren-Young's newsletter on SubstackSpotifyAppleThe Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor)Skaana on Medium……www.orcatales.comBooks and classes for sale from Team Skaana**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!**Octopus Ocean by Mark Leiren-YoungSharks Forever by Mark Leiren-YoungAudiobooks by Mark Leiren-Young (Killer Whale Who Changed the World, Orcas Everywhere & Never Shoot a Stampede Queen) on Audible.comThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World – print and e-bookThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere; Orcas of the Salish Sea & Big Whales, Small World Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys BenuThe Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys BenuSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter at Substack: https://skaanapod.substack.com/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/skaana Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

David Shiffman (author of Why Sharks Matter) on how Jaws changed the world for sharks, humans and movies… how the fear of sharks led to so many species being threatened and endangered and why you should be suspicious of “shark experts.” “More people in a typical year are bitten by other people in the New York City subway system than are bitten by sharks in the whole world… More people die falling off cliffs trying to take a scenery selfie than are killed by sharks in a typical year.”Made in Canada, eh 🍁Skaana on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramMark on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramThreadsFrom David Shiffman's online posts:Yesterday I was interviewed for Mark Leiren-Young‘s podcast- I'll share the whole episode when it's out- and he asked me an interesting question. If there's so much nonsense out there about sharks, how do I choose when to engage in mythbusting vs. when to let it go?My answer:1) Is the misunderstanding extremely common?If one rando online is the first person I've ever heard say something wrong, it's not common and maybe worth just letting go. If it's widespread misunderstanding, it's probably worth trying to address.2) Is the misunderstanding harmful?Lots of people believe incorrect things about sharks that don't make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things, and those are probably not worth the effort to engage.But some misunderstandings are harmful to conservation.3) Is the person who is sharing the incorrect information persuadable?Some people are well-intentioned but uninformed, they really want to help but don't know how. Some of those people can be reached and taught to share accurate helpful information. That's worth trying.4) Is the person who is sharing the incorrect information influential?If so, it's worth trying to stop it from getting shared before it becomes a widespread piece of misunderstanding.And 5) (Which I forgot to say to Mark): Sometimes the world is on fire and I just feel like picking a small fight where I know I'm right and I know I can win.I do not love this about myself.Shownotes:2:56 On the 50th anniversary of Jaws. “This summer is making a lot of people feel really old.”4:25 “Part of the reason Jaws still holds up the way that it does is some mistakes they made during the filming…” The importance of showing the world from the shark's point of view.5:40 Sharknado and other shark movies that are unlikely to win Oscars.6:04 Shark myths created by Jaws. “The way that the shark behaves in the movie is not the way sharks behave.”7:05 The terrible and inaccurate “rogue shark” theory.9:00 “It is astronomically unlikely that an individual person will be hurt by a shark… we are better off with healthy shark populations than we are without them.”9:46 “More people in a typical year are bitten by other people in the New York City subway system than are bitten by sharks in the whole world… More people die falling off cliffs trying to take a scenery selfie than are killed by sharks in a typical year.”11:05 Sharks vs. “influencers” and “influencers” vs. sharks.12:48 “Shark expert” is the title Shark Week gives to somebody without any actual credentials.15:13 Taking on the trolls and why it matters.17:17 Bull%$@! about bull sharks.18:07 How Shark Week launched Megalodon-mania and convinced conspiracy theories about an exintinct species. Also… getting naked with sharks… and Jackasses vs. sharks.22:45 There are no Sharknadoes but a shark did fall from the sky.23:28 Jaws author Peter Benchley tried to save the sharks. It's only a friggin' movie!24:32 The generation of scientists inspired by Richard Dreyfuss in Jaws.26:05 “If you have been in the water, in the ocean, there has been a shark not that far from you and it knew you were there. And you probably didn't see it.”28:05 “In more than a third of reported “shark attacks” in Australia the shark didn't physically touch the human at all. It swam near them in a way the person thought was threatening.”29:14 “We have lost half of all sharks – individual sharks – since the 1970s. These are animals that have survived five mass extinction events. These are animals that were swimming in the ocean before we had trees on land, before Saturn had rings. And we've lost half of them since my parents graduated from college. It's really staggering. And Jaws did not cause it, but Jaws made it harder to stop.”30:30 The Jaws Effect and how fiction influences fact.37:40 “It's not very many species of sharks that have ever killed a person.”40:45 “So the most important thing you need to know about sharks is that they're awesome and we're learning new stuff about them all the time.”Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.Skaana homepageMark's homepageJoin and support the Pod at PatreonSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter on SubstackSubscribe to Mark Leiren-Young's newsletter on SubstackSpotifyAppleThe Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor)Skaana on Medium……www.orcatales.comSkaana on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramMark on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramThreadsSupport Our GuestJaws at 50: Was the Terrifying Movie Really to Blame for Worldwide Shark Declines?Articles in Southern Fried ScienceSave Our Seas FoundationBlueskyInstagramLinkedInFacebookBooks and classes for sale from Team Skaana**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!**Octopus Ocean by Mark Leiren-YoungSharks Forever by Mark Leiren-YoungAudiobooks by Mark Leiren-Young (Killer Whale Who Changed the World, Orcas Everywhere & Never Shoot a Stampede Queen) on Audible.comThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World – print and e-bookThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere; Orcas of the Salish Sea & Big Whales, Small World Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys BenuThe Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys BenuSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter at Substack: https://skaanapod.substack.com/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/skaana Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sperm whale expert Shane Gero on his whale family in Dominica, the power of storytelling and the culture, codas and language of sperm whales. Also… why all science is political. “Science is inherently political… until the sperm whales are able to speak for themselves, someone has to be their advocate… conservation is inherently a human behavioural change.”Made in Canada, eh 🍁Shownotes:2:40 On his whale family and two decades of working with sperm whales.4:30 On falling for whales.6:30 What we know… Like… “They have the biggest brain to ever exist.” And studying sperm whales as individuals.9:48 The power of storytelling. “No matter how much science we could do, no matter how innovative the research we were doing, the story-telling around what's going on with the lives of these families was so powerful.”11:54 Watching the birth of a sperm whale. “It was a very humbling day.”14:43 “I think we do a great disservice when we centre humans.”18:20 Redefining the meaning of “culture” and “language” to avoid including non-human animals.20:33 Codas, clicks and communication.26:47 What makes sperm whale brains unique and the theory of mind.29:19 The sperm whale, Canopener, figuring out how Shane's research works.31:04 The story of spermaceti.33:15 “Sperm whales powered human culture, long before we realized that sperm whales had culture themselves.”34:00 The first time he saw a whale.35:34 And the first time he saw a sperm whale. “Every human should have to go out and experience a 360-degree horizon… it's very humbling.”39:20 On the whales' awareness of us. “We want to study what sperm whales do when sperm whales are being sperm whales… this is their realm.”41:42 “These animals are living their lives in rich, complex lives that we don't even understand yet.”42:07 Why all science is political and fighting science denialism. “Being a scientist means taking sides.”44:42 “Science is inherently political… until the sperm whales are able to speak for themselves, someone has to be their advocate… conservation is inherently a human behavioural change.”48:08 On getting biodiversity to recognize cultural diversity.51:32 On the importance of names. “When we give them a name we don't do that lightly… we treat them as individual because they are.” And some names that they never imagined would stick… like Fruit Salad.58:35 What whaling was like. “We killed something like three-quarters of the sperm whales that were out there.”100:31 “We think the biblical Leviathan was probably describing a sperm whale.”1:02:55 On what he has learned from sperm whales. “They, as individuals and families, have fundamentally changed the path of my life… Trying to understand what it meant to be a whale has helped me be a better person… They remind us about what is fundamentally important.”Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.Skaana homepageMark's homepageJoin and support the Pod at PatreonSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter on SubstackSubscribe to Mark Leiren-Young's newsletter on SubstackSpotifyAppleThe Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor)Skaana on Medium……www.orcatales.comSkaana on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramMark on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramThreadsSupport Our Guestofficial website: https://www.shanegero.com/ the Dominica Sperm Whale Project https://www.thespermwhaleproject.org/ Ted Talk – The Lost Culture of Whales https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OQkdRdfyjI LinktreeInstagramMastodonBeing a Scientist Means Taking Sides – Mary H. O'BrienBooks and classes for sale from Team Skaana**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!**Octopus Ocean by Mark Leiren-YoungSharks Forever by Mark Leiren-YoungAudiobooks by Mark Leiren-Young (Killer Whale Who Changed the World, Orcas Everywhere & Never Shoot a Stampede Queen) on Audible.comThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World – print and e-bookThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere; Orcas of the Salish Sea & Big Whales, Small World Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys BenuThe Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys BenuSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter at Substack: https://skaanapod.substack.com/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/skaana Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Beatrice Frank, new(ish) executive director of The Georgia Strait Alliance on the past, present and future of one of the most effective environmental organizations in British Columbia for their 35th anniversary. We talk about fighting threats with awareness – and lawyers – keeping the ocean clean, working with American eco-organizations in the age of Trump and the power of positivity. “We sue the government often… we just want them to be accountable for what they say they will do.”Made in Canada, eh 🍁Shownotes:2:30 Meet Beatrice Frank – the new executive director of the Georgia Strait Alliance.5:24 On arriving in BC. “Wow. This place with orcas and salmon stewarded by the Coast Salish First Nation is amazing.”8:48 The GSA turns 35 and the GSA's journey. “It really has become a powerhouse for the protection of the Salish Sea.” Advocating for southern resident orcas and more. Past and future fights.10:15 On working with First Nations on stewardship of the land and the water.12:05 The current major programs… biodiversity, marine planning, education and empowerment.14:40 Orcas and emotions.16:36 Legal fights for the Salish Sea – trying to save the orcas and stop Roberts Bank Terminal 2. “We sue the government often… we just want them to be accountable for what they say they will do.”19:00 Adjusting to the age of Trump. “Our orcas don't have a passport… we share those species.”20:12 The importance of American partners in fighting for a thriving Salish Sea.23:22 “We are rooted in the community… We are the Salish Sea.”25:52 The biggest challenges in 2025.27:42 On Clean Marine BC and training boaters on how to use the ocean and deal with whales and the water.28:45 On the importance of positivity and connecting with nature. “Everything matters. Every single little choice matters.”33:15 “We Don't Want Your Pipelines” – written by Bob Bossin, performed by Mark Leiren-Young and Mike McCormick.Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.Skaana homepageMark's homepageJoin and support the Pod at PatreonSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter on SubstackSubscribe to Mark Leiren-Young's newsletter on SubstackSpotifyAppleThe Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor)Skaana on Medium……www.orcatales.comSkaana on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramMark on social media:LinktreeFacebookBlueskyInstagramThreadsSupport Our Guestofficial website: https://georgiastrait.org/donations: https://georgiastrait.org/donate-2/events: https://georgiastrait.org/about-us/events/FacebookBlueskyInstagramLinkedInBooks and classes for sale from Team Skaana**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!**Octopus Ocean by Mark Leiren-YoungSharks Forever by Mark Leiren-YoungAudiobooks by Mark Leiren-Young (Killer Whale Who Changed the World, Orcas Everywhere & Never Shoot a Stampede Queen) on Audible.comThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World – print and e-bookThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere; Orcas of the Salish Sea & Big Whales, Small World Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys BenuThe Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys BenuSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter at Substack: https://skaanapod.substack.com/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/skaana Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Squil-le-he-le – Lummi Elder and matriarch – on her relationship, and her nation's relationship, with the orca known as Lolita, Tokitae and Sk'aliCh'elh-tenaut, the attempt to bring her home and sharing that story in the powerful new documentary Resident Orca. Resident Orca is now available on Crave in Canada and is still in festivals in the USA and around the world. “You can't separate Canada and the US… “Clean up our beaches. Stop using plastic. Talk to your electeds. And say it's enough. Breach the dams. It's enough, stop the pollution. It's enough, talk to Canada and let's join forces in saving that body of water that we all treasure and hold sacred. ”Made in Canada, eh 🍁Shownotes:4:43 Meet Skay-la-hay-la – Lummi (Lhaq'temish) elder and martiarch.5:24 On the naming and renaming of Lolita/Tokitae to Sk'aliCh'elh-tenaut7:00 On being related to the orcas. “Our relatives that live under the waves… We're related through cosmology.”9:10 On the “round-up” that almost ended the southern resident orcas.11:40 “They separated these babies from their mothers and there were several that were killed in the process and the captors didn't want to count them in their take. So they slit their bellies, filled them with gravel and sunk them.”14:24 The orcas' memories of Penn Cove and the orca matriarch, Ocean Sun steering clear. “She never led her people back there to hunt. Ever… Ocean Sun led her people into the cove… and the one day they did ceremony.”14:30 “They have traditions that mirror the Lhaq'temish people. *16:32 Orca potlatches. “We mirror each others culture and traditions… they sing, they polatch, they surround in times of sorrow and loss to support the family.”17:16 The Lhaq'temish take on salmon hats. “What we believe they are doing is they had feasted. That's their way to share. I've had enough. Have some.”19:20 On getting involved with the documentary: “If you don't tell the story of her and her sacrifices. How will people know what they've done to her and her family.”22:53 Squil-le-he-le on her journey to bring Sk'aliCh'elh-tenaut home and becoming involved with the documentary, Resident Orca.24:09 On the Lummi Nation stepping in to bring Sk'aliCh'elh-tenaut home. “It was all led by culture, spirit and tradition.”26:26 “The first time I saw qwe ‘lhol mechen ”26:58 “The first time I saw her (Sk'aliCh'elh-tenaut) was heart-breaking. She had no spirit left.”29:20 On drumming to Sk'aliCh'elh-tenaut. “She felt the healing. She accepted and welcomed the healing.”31:31 On singing with Sk'aliCh'elh-tenaut. “Trainers were crying… “Every week I would call. How's my relative? How's she doing?”33:07 On her connection to Sk'aliCh'elh-tenaut. “We were one.”34:20 On moments that aren't in the documentary – like talking with Sk'aliCh'elh-tenaut's long-time companion – a whitesided dolphin.38:03 On the Lummi talking with orcas/qw'e lh'ol mechen.43:15 On how to help the orca in the Salish Sea. Breach the dams!46:50 Why people need to see Resident Orca.50:35 “You can't separate Canada and the US… “Clean up our beaches. Stop using plastic. Talk to your electeds. And say it's enough. Breach the dramas. It's enough, stop the pollution. It's enough, talk to Canada and let's join forces in saving that body of water that we all treasure and hold sacred. ”Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.Skaana homepageMark's homepageJoin and support the Pod at PatreonSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter on SubstackSubscribe to Mark Leiren-Young's newsletter on SubstackSpotifyAppleThe Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor)Skaana on Medium……www.orcatales.comSkaana on social media:FacebookBlueskyInstagramMark on social media:FacebookInstagramThreadsSupport Our GuestResident Orca – official websiteTrailer for Resident OrcaLinktreeInstagramon Crave Books and classes for sale from Team Skaana**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!**Octopus Ocean by Mark Leiren-YoungSharks Forever by Mark Leiren-YoungAudiobooks by Mark Leiren-Young (Killer Whale Who Changed the World, Orcas Everywhere & Never Shoot a Stampede Queen) on Audible.comThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World – print and e-bookThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere; Orcas of the Salish Sea & Big Whales, Small World Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys BenuThe Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys BenuSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter at Substack: https://skaanapod.substack.com/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/skaana Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Arno Kopecky (author The Environmentalist's Dilemma) on covering Tory leader Pierre Pollution Poilievre's vs. the environment, Canadian eco-politics and the Greens vs. Greens. When Pierre's not Trumpy. And when he is. And what he'll ask Pierre Poilievre – if he ever gets to ask him a question. “He turned the carbon tax into kryptonite.” Made in Canada 🍁Shownotes:4:25 On being the only journalist embedded with Canada's Conservative Campaign.5:04 “It feels like a prolonged sort of Grateful Dead Festival festival tour meets the Freedom Convoy tour.”7:05 Pierre's greatest hits…10:52 On making sense of conspiracy theories.12:18 Why Pierre and the Tories won't talk to reporters. “For the most part the Conservative entire machine is all about message control… it is very Trumpy.”11:56 What Pierre Poiliviere doesn't want to talk about.15:06 Where Pierre's not Trumpy. And where he is…18:02 Why Pierre's declared the carbon tax public enemy #1. “He turned the carbon tax into kryptonite.”19:48 On Pierre not talking about climate policy, except to mock it.22:53 “The NDP has always been in a bit of a tricky place around environmental policies.”23:40 The carbon tax is a very conservative solution…26:16 On Mark Carney: “He's really quite literate on that file and he's built his career trying to convince the world's financial industries and bankers that climate change presents a massive existential threat to capitalism.”28:30 On Carney: “I don't think he's the hero that we need but… it was his choice to go to rooms full of bankers in the halls of power in Europe and beyond. And tell them, you know, 10 years ago. “Listen, climate change is coming for us and we need to address it.” So I appreciate that.”33:30 “The Green Party of Canada has become invisible.”34:50 “It speaks volumes to me that a guy like Steven Guilbeault, who was arrested in 2001 [00:35:00] as Pierre Poliviere never tires of reminding us – for scaling the CN Tower and hanging a banner that said Bush and Canada are climate killers he was a Greenpeace activist, you know, literally as, as hardcore as it gets. Twenty years later when he runs for office, he doesn't join the Green Party. He joins the Liberal party and two years after that, he becomes the Minister of Environment and Climate Change.”36:25 “The Greens have slid into irrelevance… I think it's going to be a grim election for the Greens.”41:15 On voting this election.41:50 What he'll ask Pierre Poiliviere – if he ever gets to ask him a question.Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.Skaana homepageMark's homepageJoin and support the Pod at PatreonSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter on SubstackSubscribe to Mark Leiren-Young's newsletter on SubstackSpotifyAppleThe Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor)Skaana on Medium……www.orcatales.comSkaana on social media:FacebookBlueskyInstagramMark on social media:FacebookInstagramThreadsOctopus OceanSupport Our GuestBlueskyInstagramArno in The National ObserverArno in The Walrus – including his story Wither the GreensBooks and classes for sale from Team Skaana**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!**Octopus Ocean by Mark Leiren-YoungSharks Forever by Mark Leiren-YoungAudiobooks by Mark Leiren-Young (Killer Whale Who Changed the World, Orcas Everywhere & Never Shoot a Stampede Queen) on Audible.comThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World – print and e-bookThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere; Orcas of the Salish Sea & Big Whales, Small World Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys BenuThe Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys BenuSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter at Substack: https://skaanapod.substack.com/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/skaana Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In 2018 Tahlequah captured the world's attention when she carried her dead daughter's body for seventeen days in what became known as the “tour of grief.” The human who shared that story with the world was Seattle Times reporter, Lynda Mapes. Tahlequah just lost another newborn daughter. She just completed a second tour of grief. And this time… the world wasn't watching. Lynda Mapes and Skaana host Mark Leiren-Young talk about why the media and the world wasn't tuned in this time, trolls who blame Tahlequah for her tragedies, the future and fate of Tahlequah and her family and the challenges facing everyone who cares about whales and the planet in 2025. “The way to think about these animals is as an ancient society.” – Lynda Mapes.Made in Canada 🍁Shownotes:4:10 Meet Lynda Mapes. “It's a pretty catastrophic time.”5:11 The difference between Tahlequah's first and second tour of grief. “It's not like the last time with six million people reading my stories.”6:20 “She's still the ultimate media star.”8:27 Remembering the first tour of grief and the attempts to save Scarlet (J-50).10:04 “These animals define the region.”10:25 “Look at the world right now… it's a pretty dire time in the US.”11:15 “Some people blame her.” We interrupt this show note (Mark here) to say this makes me want to scream…14:18 “This is a co-extinction.”18:17 “What we have left we cannot lose.”18:55 Is the biggest threat to the Southern Residents the Biggs transients?20:00 “I'm afraid people are going to forget about the southern residents… they have a right to be here… the way to think about these animals is as an ancient society.”23:44 Tour 2… “It isn't what it was…”25:06 People trolling Tahlequah…27:15 “We've taken away her food, we've taken away her territory…”28:05 The future and fate of NOAA. “It's dire… it couldn't be a more serious situation for the environment and people who care about it. It's a scary time.”30:02 “We're going to have to make profound changes in order to bring back salmon in greater numbers…” Cleaning up and trashing dams.34:11 “The power of nature, the resilience of nature is thrilling and real.”Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.Skaana homepageMark's homepageJoin and support the Pod at PatreonSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter on SubstackSubscribe to Mark Leiren-Young's newsletter on SubstackSpotifyAppleThe Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor)Skaana on Medium……www.orcatales.comSkaana on social media:FacebookBlueskyInstagramMark on social media:FacebookInstagramThreadsLynda MapesSupport Our GuestLynda MapesInstagramBooks and classes for sale from Team Skaana**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!**Octopus Ocean by Mark Leiren-YoungSharks Forever by Mark Leiren-YoungAudiobooks by Mark Leiren-Young (Killer Whale Who Changed the World, Orcas Everywhere & Never Shoot a Stampede Queen) on Audible.comThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World – print and e-bookThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere; Orcas of the Salish Sea & Big Whales, Small World Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys BenuThe Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys BenuSubscribe to the Skaana newsletter at Substack: https://skaanapod.substack.com/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/skaana Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Let the Herring Live! Eric Pelkey is done pretending BC fishers should still be capturing herring. The Community Engagement Coordinator for the W̱SÁNEĆ leadership council talks about a proposed boycott, over-fishing, under-enforcement and the disappearance of a keystone species with significance to the W̱SÁNEĆ Nation and the entire eco-system of the Salish Sea. “Without the herring the salmon can't live. The sea lions can't live. The seals can't live. And if there's no salmon, the killer whales and the larger sea mammals can't live either. No salmon, no killer whales… The herring is a keystone species for the survival of life within the Salish Sea.”Shownotes:3:11 “The importance of herring to our people is immeasurable.” A trade item. A food source. And more.6:31 “Herring and other fish provided a really substantial part of our diet… Not having that seafood and herring has really had a detrimental effect to the health of our people. Especially the First Nations women.”10:20 How real is the herring “fishery” as an industry?11:30 The history of herring fishing and when the herring were everywhere.14:09 The Canadian government allowing over-fishing. “They went in there and took whole communities at once. And wiped them right out.”15:10 “Without the herring the salmon can't live. The sea lions can't live. The seals can't live. And if there's no salmon, the killer whales and the larger sea mammals can't live either. No salmon, no killer whales… The herring is a keystone species for the survival of life within the Salish Sea.”16:28 “The DFO is supposed to be the protector of the fish, of the sea… but the DFO speaks only to the commercial industry and listens only to them. And doesn't listen to us.”17:45 “They're gonna do the same thing that they did on the east coast with the cod… it's like you're putting another arrow into the backs of the First Nations people.”18:30 “They're willing to wipe out the herring for a few dollars more… for a few dollars.”19:40 “Let the herring live!”23:33 “Talk to your MLA or MP about the importance of herring.”24:19 How long the moratorium should last – 20-25 years. Real science vs. pseudoscience.25:32 His herring necklace.Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas.Skaana homepageMark's homepageJoin and support the Pod at PatreonSubscribe to the Skaana newsletterSubscribe to Mark Leiren-Young's newsletterSpotifyAppleThe Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor)Skaana on Medium……www.orcatales.comSkaana on social media:FacebookBlueskyInstagramMark on social media:FacebookInstagramThreadsEric PelkeySupport Our GuestInitiativesPacific Wild: Protect Pacific HerringSaanich Peninsula chiefs make historic call for herring moratorium Pacific Wild Herring Fact SheetBooks and classes for sale from Team Skaana**Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!**Octopus Ocean by Mark Leiren-YoungSharks Forever by Mark Leiren-YoungAudiobooks by Mark Leiren-Young (Killer Whale Who Changed the World, Orcas Everywhere & Never Shoot a Stampede Queen) on Audible.comThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World – print and e-bookThe Killer Whale Who Changed the World on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere on SpotifyOrcas Everywhere; Orcas of the Salish Sea & Big Whales, Small World Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys BenuThe Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys Benu Subscribe to the Skaana newsletter at Substack: https://skaanapod.substack.com/Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/skaana Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.