Smarter Marketer

Few decisions have a bigger impact on marketing performance than choosing the right agency partner. Yet according to TrinityP3's latest State of the Pitch Report, many pitch processes are still creating frustration on both sides of the table. Agencies invest significant time and resources into pitches, while marketers often struggle with unclear scopes. More than anything, this leads to relationships starting on the wrong foot before a contract is even signed.In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host James Lawrence sits down with TrinityP3 Founder and CEO Darren Woolley to unpack the findings from the 2026 State of the Pitch report. Together they discuss why some pitch processes consistently underperform and what marketers can do to build stronger, more productive agency relationships from the very beginning. Read: The State of the Pitch ReportKey Takeaways:The biggest findings from TrinityP3's 2026 State of the Pitch reportWhy agency dissatisfaction with pitch processes remains stubbornly highThe impact poor pitch management can have on agency performance and marketer reputationWhy defining scope of work remains one of the biggest challenges in agency selectionHow AI and changing agency pricing models are increasing the importance of better scopingThe ideal number of agencies to involve in a competitive pitch processWhen marketers should pitch, and when alternative approaches may deliver better outcomesThe role procurement should play in agency selection and where it often goes wrongHow marketers can create stronger agency relationships before a contract is even signedBest-practice feedback, communication and transparency throughout the pitch processGuest:Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director.You can follow Darren on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

Episode Description:Most marketers are keen to try the new shiny tactic, but what if the biggest B2B marketing opportunities come from understanding what doesn’t change?In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host, James Lawrence, sits down with Ty Heath, Global Thought Leadership Lead at LinkedIn and co-founder of the LinkedIn B2B Institute, to explore the marketing principles that continue to drive growth in an increasingly complex world. Drawing on LinkedIn’s research and the B2B Institute’s latest work, Ty unpacks why brand remains one of the most powerful growth drivers in B2B and why many marketers are focusing on the wrong signals.Resources:LinkedIn B2B InstituteWebinar: B2B Trends for the Contrarian MarketerWhitepaper: How B2B Brands GrowKey Takeaways:Why the best marketers focus on what doesn't change rather than chasing every new trendThe contrarian marketer framework and how to find growth opportunities others overlookWhy buyers often create a shortlist before entering the market, and what that means for brand buildingThe 95/5 rule and why long-term brand investment remains critical for B2B growthThe "sea of sameness" problem and how brands can build stronger distinctivenessThe dangers of over-segmentation and the role of category entry points in reaching more buyersHidden buyers: who really influences B2B purchasing decisions beyond the obvious stakeholdersThe sales and marketing alignment gap and what businesses can do to close itGuest: Tyrona Heath leads global thought leadership at LinkedIn Marketing and is the co-founder of LinkedIn’s B2B Institute. She is also a board member of the American Advertising Federation and a leading voice in B2B marketing effectiveness. Through LinkedIn’s research and partnerships with leading marketing thinkers and institutions, Ty helps marketers make clearer, evidence-based decisions about brand, memory, creativity and growth.You can follow TY on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kgKindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWmAbout the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Episode Description:Is Google losing ground? How much traffic are tools like ChatGPT really driving? And what does visibility look like when answers increasingly happen inside AI platforms instead of on your website? In this episode, Host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, to unpack what’s actually happening inside AI search in Australia right now.Drawing on Rocket’s latest GEO research across more than 150 Australian businesses and over one million data points, they explore how platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews, Gemini and Perplexity are reshaping visibility, influence and digital measurement for brands, and what marketers should focus on next.Watch our webinar: AI Search in Australia 2026 - How to Rank in ChatGPT & Google AIKey Takeaways:Why Google search traffic is declining even while total search activity continues to growHow AI Overviews are impacting click-through rates for brands ranking in top Google positionsWhat Rocket’s research revealed about the overlap between Google rankings and ChatGPT visibilityWhy ChatGPT influences purchasing decisions far beyond the traffic it directly sends to websitesThe growing importance of brand perception inside large language modelsWhy AI search optimisation requires a different approach to traditional SEOThe technical website issues preventing many brands from appearing in AI search resultsWhat types of content are performing best inside large language modelsWhy authority, citations and off-site brand signals matter more than ever in AI searchThe metrics marketers should actually be tracking to measure AI search performanceGuest:Joe Alder is Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO and one of Australia’s leading voices on the evolving AI search landscape. He has worked closely with Australian brands to help them navigate the shift from traditional search to AI-driven discovery, combining deep technical expertise with practical strategies for improving visibility across platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews and Gemini.You can follow Joe on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kgKindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWmAbout the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

As platforms push Performance Max, Advantage+ and new modelling systems, we’re entering a world where results often look better in-platform than they do in reality. Behind the scenes, attribution is becoming harder and marketers are being forced to rethink how they interpret success altogether.In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Paid Media Manager, Adrian Oguz, to unpack what truly matters when you’re running paid media in an AI-driven landscape. Adrian shares an unfiltered view on automation, performance loops, the limits of attribution and how in-house marketers can step back and measure what actually drives growth, and not just what looks good on a dashboard.Key Takeaways:Why AI-driven campaign types often optimise toward the easiest conversions, not the most valuable onesHow to recognise when Performance Max has fallen into the “existing customer loop”The hidden risks of lead-gen automation and why spam leads often spike before performance improvesThe simple macro metrics that reveal whether your media is genuinely growing the businessHow channels like YouTube can drive huge results without showing any conversions in-platformWhy creative is becoming the new targeting, especially inside Meta’s evolving ecosystemHow to design tests that prove whether a channel is actually contributing to growthWhen it’s time to scale spend, and when stability matters more than chasing the next tacticGuest:Adrian Oguz is a Paid Media Manager at Rocket Agency, overseeing multi-million-dollar budgets across search, social and programmatic. With his clear, practical approach, he’s led multiple award-winning campaigns for various business types and industries across the APAC Search Awards and SEMrush Awards year after year.You can follow Adrian on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

As 2025 comes to a close, the conversation around in-housing has never been more confusing. With rising pressures on budgets and the disruption caused by AI, businesses are being forced to rethink what the right marketing structure might look like  for them.In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence speaks with Darren Woolley, Founder and Global CEO of Australia’s leading marketing management consultancy TrinityP3. Together they unpack the myths surrounding in-housing and outsourcing, and what research really says about cost, culture, productivity and creativity.Key Takeaways:Why “in-housing vs. agency” is the wrong question to ask and what the right balance looks likeThe hidden costs that make many in-house teams more expensive than expectedHow in-house agencies can fall into creative myopia and how to bring external stimulus back inWhy AI is more than just efficiency: accountability, smarter decision-making, strategic advantage and moreThe three challenges keeping marketers up at night: tighter budgets, proving ROI and keeping pace with changeHow agencies remain indispensable by offering perspective and speed that internal teams can’t easily replicateGuest:Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director.You can follow Darren on LinkedIn.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

What does it really mean to lead marketing in 2025? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence sits down with executive brand strategist Emma Logan to unpack the realities facing modern marketing leaders, from blurred job boundaries and rising stakeholder expectations to the personal toll of visibility and performance.Emma shares why every senior marketer already has an “executive brand”, whether they’ve defined it or not, and how failing to own that narrative means letting others do it for you. Together, she and James explore what authentic leadership looks like in a post-pandemic world, how to navigate complexity without burning out, why connection and energy management are not just nice-to-haves and more.Key Takeaways:Emma’s journey - The story behind The Emma Logan ProjectWhy every CMO needs an intentional executive brand and what happens if you don’t define itThe growing complexity of the marketing role: from AI and capability gaps to shifting cultural expectationsHow trust, transparency and delivery underpin influence at the C-suite and board levelNetworking as a leadership superpower: the ROI of connection and communityWhy energy, recovery and self-awareness are becoming critical to sustainable leadershipGuest:Emma Logan has spent more than 15 years working across marketing and media in New Zealand, London and Australia, spanning client-side, agency, publisher and not-for-profit roles. She’s partnered with numerous leading brands and marketing talent, bringing a rare 360-degree perspective to the challenges facing today’s leaders.Through The Emma Logan Project, she now runs a “marketer-focused consultancy,” helping CMOs and senior marketing leaders define who they are and how to amplify their impact across their teams and the wider industry.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Ranking in ChatGPT is now one of the most urgent challenges in digital marketing. With millions of Australians using AI search every week, the question for in-house marketers isn’t whether ChatGPT is shaping buyer journeys anymore, it’s how to make sure your brand is visible where and when it matters most. In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence is joined by Rocket’s Head of SEO, Joe Alder, to unpack the latest research and share practical advice on what it really takes to rank in ChatGPT.Key Takeaways:Why traffic from ChatGPT converts at over 5x the rate of traditional search traffic, and what that means for marketersThe two ways ChatGPT sources information, and how each affects your visibilityThe technical dos and don’ts that determine whether your site can be read by ChatGPTHow to structure copy so it’s more likely to be cited in AI searchThe kinds of content that are consistently favoured in AI responsesWhy authority now means brand mentions, reviews, listicles and awards, not just backlinksThe hard truth about measurement: why click-through rates from ChatGPT are so low, and what you can do to track your traffic from AI searchGuest:Joe Alder is the Head of SEO at Rocket Agency, leading all SEO services and projects. With over 8 years of experience, Joe has implemented complex SEO campaigns for B2C, B2B and government organisations, working with notable brands such as Amazon, Qudos, P&O Cruises, PE Nation, Fujitsu and Coates. Since the launch of ChatGPT, he and his team have been at the frontline of AI search optimisation - running first-hand tests across thousands of queries, analysing data from Australia’s top websites and guiding brands on how to adapt their SEO strategies for an AI-driven future.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Marketing in 2025 is being shaped by what some experts call a 'polycrisis' - disruption layered upon disruption. From global conflicts to inflation to AI-driven job shifts, the market conditions facing both brands and consumers are becoming more complex and unpredictable. For marketers, the challenge isn’t just keeping up; it’s finding ways to cut through the noise and still build for the long term.In this episode of Smarter Marketer, Host James Lawrence (Co-Founder, Rocket Agency) speaks with Dan Robertson-Jones (Partner, Kantar) about the findings from Kantar’s recent report on marketing effectiveness in Australia. They discuss the pressures driving short-term thinking, the impact of brand erosion, why creative quality matters more than most marketers realise and how consumer behaviour is changing as 'sameness' floods the markets.Whether you’re a CMO navigating budget scrutiny or a marketer trying to align brand and performance, this conversation offers a clear-eyed view of where marketing is heading and how to adapt.Key Takeaways:Why Australian marketers are facing mounting pressure to prove short-term ROIThe risks of over-indexing on performance marketingHow consumers are reshaping brand relationships as economies face stress from the polycrisisThe drop in meaningfully different brands over the past decade, and what’s driving itHow the “sea of sameness” in creative is eroding the effectiveness of marketingWhy cultural relevance is key to standing outWhy consistency across touchpoints is harder now, and how measurement systems can bridge short and long-term goalsThe importance of boldness and foresight for growth in a volatile marketRead the report here: Marketing Effectiveness HubGuest:Dan Robertson-Jones is a Partner at Kantar, one of the world’s leading marketing data and analytics companies. With over two decades of experience in strategic marketing research, Dan helps brands navigate disruption and decode shifting consumer behaviour.Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.