Sounds of SAND

There is a “false wall” often placed between contemplative life and political action—a story implying that inner peace and outer justice are separate vocations. This imaginary divide exhausts us. In a world facing converging crises, how do those dedicated to healing move beyond the limits of individualized work to support systemic transformation? Join somatics experts and social change practitioners Nkem Ndefo and Staci K. Haines for a conversation introducing The Outer Work Project; an initiative dedicated to bridging trauma healing spaces with sustained social and climate justice movements. This episode explores how to move from personal healing as solely an inward practice into a rooted force for collective change. Guests Nkem Ndefo is an alchemist, disabled Black midwife, facilitator, coach, and strategist. She is the founder of Lumos Transforms and creator of The Resilience Toolkit, a model for embodied healing and liberatory change rooted in neuroscience and social justice. Her work spans the US, UK, and Palestine. Staci K. Haines has been working at the intersections of personal and social transformation for over 30 years through politicized somatics, trauma healing, embodied leadership, and transformative justice. She is the co-founder of Generative Somatics and co-leads The Outer Work Project. She is the author of The Politics of Trauma: Somatics, Healing and Social Justice. Rae Abileah (facilitator) is a social change strategist, Jewish faith leader, and member of the SAND team. Her work spans Beautiful Trouble, The Nature Conservancy Agility Lab, and ALAS, weaving cultural connection, the arts, and frontline community leadership as pathways to healing and climate justice. Timestamps 00:00 — Welcome & opening from SAND 00:03 — Rae opens: breathing, interdependence, and tending the whole amidst brokenness 00:07 — Nkem and Staci introduce themselves: lineage, the politic of suffering, and why this work 00:15 — The false wall: separating spiritual and political  00:16 — Case study: National Domestic Workers Alliance and embodied leadership 00:19 — Case study: LA County health system, anti-racism work, and the word "love" 00:25 — Burnout, overwhelm, and sustaining movement work from the inside out 00:35 — Consent, boundaries, and building a somatic culture in organizations 00:43 — Tearing down vs. building: holding contradictions without collapsing 00:48 — Visioning our yes: what a racially just feminist social democracy could feel like 00:50 — Legacy, small acts, and what we're building together 01:00 — Closing reflections: love as action and trusting our courage Resources & Links Nkem Ndefo Lumos Transforms — website The Resilience Toolkit Lumos Transforms Community (global network) Practicing Liberation — contributing author (North Atlantic Books, 2024) Staci K. Haines Website: StaciHaines.com The Politics of Trauma: Somatics, Healing and Social Justice — North Atlantic Books, 2019 Generative Somatics The Outer Work Project Strozzi Institute Rae Abileah CreateWell Beautiful Trouble ALAS — Ayudando Latinos a Soñar Organizations & concepts referenced National Domestic Workers Alliance — Staci's 7-year embodied leadership program with domestic worker organizers Ai-jen Poo — founder of NDWA — referenced throughout the NDWA story Movement Generation — Just Transitions zine — "From Banks and Tanks to Cooperation and Caring," referenced by Staci as an essential framework for a regenerative economy Terry Tempest Williams — The Glorians (audiobook) — Rae references the passage "We cannot breathe" during the opening generationFIVE — founded by Staci, committed to ending child sexual abuse within five generations using transformative justice approaches SAND Events, Courses and Films What Occupation Does to the Soul: A Global Reverberations of Palestinian Historical Trauma — June 26th, with Dr. Samah Jabr, Dr. Gabor Maté, and Dr. Jennifer Mullan Decolonial Mental Health Practices — Four-part webinar series with Dr. Samah Jabr   The Eternal Song film series   Contact SAND podcast@scienceandnonduality.com Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

What if language was not a tool for naming things, but a vibration of relationship? What if intelligence wasn’t a human asset, but an ecological rhythm? What if consciousness is not what happens in our heads—but what happens between us, through us, with the land, with water, with wind?   Come gather for a conversation with Tiokasin Ghosthorse, Cheyenne River Lakota elder, host of First Voices Radio, master musician, and steward of relational ways of knowing. Rooted in the vibrational teachings of the old Lakota language, a language shaped by Earth and used to speak with, not about, Tiokasin invites us to unlearn the dominance of human-centered thought and listen again to Earth as consciousness.   First Voices Indigenous Radio   Butterfly Against the Wind   Topics   00:00 Introduction and Greetings 00:48 Introducing Tiokasin Ghosthorse 01:28 Tiokasin's Background and Philosophy 04:36 The Concept of Land Acknowledgement 05:59 Relational Values and Indigenous Wisdom 08:02 Language and Consciousness 16:09 Mystery and Present Consciousness 27:54 Environmentalism and Connection to Earth 35:04 Understanding WIA and Innocence 36:34 The Role of Elders and Wisdom 37:58 Relational Intelligence vs. Western Education 39:14 Cultural Trauma and Language Suppression 45:41 Earth Consciousness and Modern Anxiety 50:04 The Illusion of Control and AI 58:38 Ceremony and Earth Cycles 01:03:32 Final Thoughts and Gratitude Connect with more with Tiokasin and dozens of other speakers and elders  in the SAND film Series The Eternal Song Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

From a SAND Community Gathering (December 2025), Francis Weller joins SAND co-founders Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo for a wide-ranging conversation on grief, initiation, and the sacred thresholds of a changing world.   They speak of rough passages and necessary descents—of what must burn away, and what endures. With Francis’s steady guidance, sorrow, longing, beauty, and vulnerability are reclaimed not as weaknesses, but as profound sources of strength, orientation, and soul knowledge.   Rooted in the soulcraft teachings of his book In the Absence of the Ordinary, the dialogue unfolds in a spirit of reverence and remembrance. Together, they explore the unraveling of the familiar as an invitation into deeper belonging—grief as a living portal, and beauty as a practice of staying close to what is sacred, even in times of descent.   Topics   00:00 Introduction and Acknowledgements 01:09 Guest Introduction: Francis Weller 02:02 Opening Reflections on Soul and Rhythm 03:17 The Modern Frenzy vs. Soul's Rhythm 05:32 Therapy and the Soul's Healing Process 12:09 The Role of Wounds in Soul Work 16:35 Confession and Community Healing 23:17 Collective Psyche and Modern Challenges 28:39 Historical Roots of Disconnection 31:25 Grief and Ancestral Memory 33:47 Understanding Grief in a Shallow Culture 35:06 The Three Layers of Experience 35:18 The Role of Ritual in Processing Grief 36:00 Fear and Control in Grief Expression 36:22 The Importance of Containment Fields 36:48 Cultural Rituals and Their Significance 40:21 Creating Personal Rituals 50:32 The Long Dark: Embracing Uncertainty 56:13 The Sacred in Everyday Life 59:13 The Role of Elders in a Fragmented World 01:03:12 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

This episode was recorded live at The Eternal Song Film Gathering in 2025.  Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo welcome Dr. (Uncle) Paul Gordon and Joe Williams, featured in the upcoming SAND Film In the Circle of Life premiering January 20, 2026. In this conversation they discuss the profound importance of connection to the land, cultural heritage, and traditional practices in achieving wellness. The conversation reveals how Indigenous wisdom can address modern societal woes and highlights the importance of respecting and maintaining a deep relationship with the natural world. Topics 00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:47 Meet Uncle Paul Gordon 01:59 Language and Cultural Connections 03:01 Introducing Joe Williams 16:26 Joe Williams' Journey and Spiritual Awakening 22:07 Aboriginal Perspectives on Wellbeing and Grief 26:23 Understanding Time and Connection to Country 29:40 Ancient Knowledge and Star Stories 30:50 Connection to Country and Ancestral Wisdom 44:25 The Role of Ceremony and Responsibility 52:22 Healing Through Connection to Nature 57:55 Final Thoughts and Resources Resources In the Circle of Life The Living Country Community  Recorded live at The Eternal Song Seven Day Film Premiere summit with Indigenous voices Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

This final episode of 2025 reflects on a year of transitions and healing, focusing on themes of intergenerational trauma, collective grief, and social justice, especially in the context of the ongoing genocide in Gaza. Through diverse voices including Dr. Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein, Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, Ashira Darwish, Omid Safi, Kazu Haga, and others, the episode delves into personal and collective fields of healing. It emphasizes the importance of remembering, ritualizing healing, community action, indigenous knowledge, and a para-politics of grief and relationship. The episode also highlights the significance of interconnectedness, resilience, and the continuous effort towards justice and transformation. Topics and Speakers  00:00 Introduction and Year in Review 02:03 Minds Under Siege: Dr. Gabor Mate and Naomi Klein 17:38 We Will Not Look Away: Vigil for Gaza with Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, Ashira Darwish and Omid Safi 37:33 Fierce Vulnerability: Kazu Haga 46:16 Belonging Without Othering: john a. powell 50:51 The Limits of Solution-Driven Thinking: Bayo Akomolafe 55:47 Complexity and Phase Transitions: Jeremy Lent 01:02:03 Intergenerational Trauma and Healing: Jungwon Kim and Linda Thai  01:18:40 Generational Trauma and Community Healing: Dr. Thema Bryant 01:23:16 Decolonizing Therapy and Ancestral Healing: Dr. Jennifer Mullan 01:26:30 Indigenous Perspectives on Colonization and Wellbeing: Dr. Diana Kopua, Tina Ngata and Mark Kopua 01:40:30 Plant Medicine and Connection to Nature: Donna Kerridge 01:53:07 Grief, Ritual, and Communal Healing: Orland Bishop and Francis Weller 02:02:39 Presence and Receptive Awareness: John J. Prendergast 02:09:26 Conclusion and Membership Invitation  Links  Naomi Klein Dr. Gabor Maté Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb Omid Safi Kazu Haga john a. Powell Bayo Akomolafe Jeremy Lent Jungwon Kim Linda Thai Dr. Thema Bryant Dr. Jennifer Mullan Te Kurahuna (Mark and Dr. Diana Kopua) Tina Ngata Francis Weller Orland Bishop John Prendergast Where Olive Trees Weep  The Eternal Song (Film series and course) Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

A Decolonial Invitation to Remember, Relearn, and Resist   From a live SAND Community Gathering (November 2025) a live conversation with Dr. Jennifer Mullan & Iya Affo. Their discussion emphasizes the importance of ancestral wisdom, collective healing, and the decolonization of therapeutic practices. Dr. Mullan shares her personal journey of reconciling traditional healing methods with modern therapy and explores the impact of historical and intergenerational trauma. The conversation also highlights the significance of land, lineage, and community in the healing process, and addresses the ways in which therapy can be transformed to be more inclusive and effective for diverse populations. Dr. Mullan shares from her journey of calling therapists into a politicized practice—one rooted in responsibility, reverence, and collective liberation. The conversation challenges clinicians to confront their training, interrogate their privilege, and participate in the sacred labor of relearning. Topics 00:00 Welcome and Introductions 00:30 Honoring Ancestral Wisdom 01:54 Introducing Iya Affo 04:23 Meet Dr. Jennifer Mullan 05:22 The Non-Neutrality of Therapy 10:39 Decolonizing Therapy: A Deep Dive 14:33 Therapy and Boundaries 27:42 The Historical Impact on Therapy 31:24 Shining a Light on Hidden History 31:55 Finding Safe Spaces for Vulnerability 32:21 Therapeutic Contexts and Trauma 33:45 Bridging and Reciprocity in Healing 37:04 Colonial Soul Wound and Historical Trauma 39:39 Reclaiming Ancestral Pathways 42:25 Decolonizing Therapy for All 45:43 Healing Across Layered Dimensions 54:50 Embracing Sacred Rage and Grief 58:25 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member