Stop the Killing

What happens when three experienced investigators from opposite sides of the world sit down to examine how police respond to an active shooter? In this special crossover between Stop the Killing and Watching Two Detectives, former FBI Special Agent Katherine Schweit joins retired New South Wales detectives Peter Hogan and Scott Rogan for an expert examination of the lessons that have reshaped mass-shooting prevention, preparation and police response. Katherine was working on national security and counterterrorism cases when the murder of 20 children and six educators at Sandy Hook Elementary School changed the direction of her career. Following the shooting, she was appointed to the White House team tasked with developing a coordinated national response to mass shootings and became the architect of the FBI’s Active Shooter Program. In Part One, Katherine explains how the devastating events at Sandy Hook helped accelerate a fundamental change in policing: moving away from the traditional strategy of “contain, negotiate and wait” towards the immediate deployment of officers to confront and stop an active threat. Peter and Scott reveal how those lessons travelled across the world and influenced Australian policing. They discuss the introduction of New South Wales Police’s Active Armed Offender training, the impact of the 2014 Lindt Café siege and the confronting reality of preparing ordinary frontline officers to run towards attackers armed with military-style weapons. Together, they explore: Why active-shooter incidents can be over within minutes The extraordinary risks faced by the first officers entering the scene Why an active shooter and a mass shooting are not always the same thing Why workplaces—not schools—account for many active-shooter attacks in the United States The challenges of negotiating with attackers driven by extremist or ideological motives Why warning signs must be recognised and reported before violence begins How information shared by one student helped prevent a planned school shooting Why measuring the attacks that never happened is so important Katherine also shares the remarkable story of the message that reminded her why Stop the Killing must continue: a school vice principal who credited the podcast with helping her team recognise the warning signs and prevent a planned attack. This conversation lays the groundwork for the next part of the series, when Katherine, Peter and Scott turn their attention to the December 14, 2025 Bondi Beach terrorist attack, examining the actions of the attackers, civilians and responding officers through their combined FBI and Australian policing experience. The attack targeted a Hanukkah celebration and killed 15 people. This is not simply a conversation about what happened. It is a conversation about what has been learned, what has changed—and what still needs to change to stop the next attack. Listen now to Part One of this special multi-part crossover. Stop the Killing on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489 Watching Two Detectives on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/watching-two-detectives/id1740792484 Watching Two Detectives Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/wtd Stop the Killing Patreon:GUNS, SUICIDE AND THE WOMEN WHO TALK TO THE DEAD — PART TWO In Part Two of this special crossover between Stop the Killing and Watching Two Detectives, former FBI Special Agent Katherine Schweit continues her conversation with retired New South Wales detectives Peter Hogan and Scott Rogan. Before the team turns its attention to the Bondi Beach killings, they take a deeper look at the realities that sit behind conversations about firearms, mass violence and public safety. Katherine explains why she wrote Stop the Killing: A Simple Guide to the Second Amendment and why productive conversations about guns in the United States have become so difficult. With hundreds of millions of firearms already in circulation, she argues that prevention has to begin with the laws, risks and realities that currently exist—not the world people wish existed. The conversation also examines one of the most overlooked parts of America’s firearms crisis: suicide. Katherine explains that the majority of firearm deaths in the United States are self-inflicted, raising difficult questions about access to weapons during moments of crisis and how firearms can turn a temporary period of distress into an irreversible outcome. Peter, Scott and Katherine discuss: Why active-shooter attacks and other forms of mass violence are not directly comparable How the weapon used can dramatically change the number of casualties The difference between bolt-action, semi-automatic and automatic firearms Why Australia’s firearms restrictions mattered during the Bondi Beach attack How the elevated firing position at Bondi could have produced an even greater loss of life if different weapons had been available What the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting demonstrates about firing speed, distance and crowd density Why statistics must be properly explained rather than used to support a predetermined argument The conversation then moves from mass-shooting prevention to another extraordinary investigation from Katherine’s career. Katherine introduces her book Women Who Talk to the Dead, which follows Detroit detective Shannon Jones and FBI forensic specialist Leslie Larsen as they uncover a connection between missing-person investigations and unidentified murder victims buried in paupers’ graves. What begins with one detective searching through decades-old paper files develops into the largest exhumation of murder victims ever undertaken by the FBI. Katherine reveals how a team of female detectives, prosecutors, forensic anthropologists and investigators volunteered their expertise and time to recover remains, obtain DNA and finally return names to people who had been unidentified for decades. Peter also reflects on his own experience working alongside a forensic anthropologist during the painstaking exhumation of a murder victim—and why a line in a news report stating that investigators “exhumed the body and obtained DNA” can never capture the time, care and expertise that work truly requires. This episode is about the human realities hidden behind the statistics: the people lost to firearms, the investigators who carry the responsibility of finding answers and the extraordinary work required to give unidentified victims their names back. And after two episodes of expert discussion, the stage is now set. In Part Three, Katherine Schweit, Peter Hogan and Scott Rogan turn their combined FBI and New South Wales policing experience towards the Bondi Beach killings and examine the events of that tragic day. Stop the Killing on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489 Watching Two Detectives on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/watching-two-detectives/id1740792484 Watching Two Detectives Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/wtd Stop the Killing Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/stopthekilling Listening on the Stop the Killing feed? Head over to Watching Two Detectives, subscribe and discover the four seasons waiting for you. Listening on Watching Two Detectives? Search for Stop the Killing, subscribe and explore more than 300 episodes examining mass shootings, prevention, survival and the people working to create meaningful change. Please follow both shows and leave a five-star review wherever you listen. Your support helps us continue producing these independent, expert-led conversations. Join us next week for Part Three: the Bondi Beach killings through the expert lenses of Katherine Schweit, Peter Hogan and Scott Rogan. This episode contains discussions of mass shootings, suicide, firearms, murder victims and human remains. Listener discretion is advised. This is a Sarah Ferris Media on the Killer Podcasts Network Check out more Sarah Ferris Media productions: CONNING THE CON KLOOGHLESS - THE LONG CON GUILTY GREENIE THE BRAVERY ACADEMY LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When a school shooting happens, the focus is usually on the gunman. But what happens when the parents are held responsible too? In this episode of Stop the Killing, former FBI executive Katherine Schweit examines the landmark conviction of a father following the Apalachee High School shooting in Georgia, where two students and two teachers were killed in September 2024. The case raises a question that is reshaping the legal landscape in the United States: Can parents be criminally liable for the actions of their children? Following a two-week trial and just two hours of jury deliberation, the father of the alleged teenage shooter was convicted on multiple charges including involuntary manslaughter and second-degree murder. In this episode, we unpack: Why prosecutors argued the father was criminally negligent How this case compares to the Oxford High School shooting parents’ convictions The warning signs that appeared before the tragedy The legal concept of parental liability in school shootings What threat assessment teams can do to prevent violence Why prosecutors may increasingly charge parents in future cases This episode explores the difficult but urgent question: Where does responsibility begin — and where does it end — when a child commits an act of mass violence? Because the legal system may be entering a new era where parental decisions can carry criminal consequences. Apalachee High School shooting Parents charged in school shootings Criminal negligence and gun ownership Oxford High School shooting parents case Warning signs before mass violence Threat assessment teams in schools Gun access and youth violence prevention Legal accountability in school shootings Relevant Resources and Links: Support us on Patreon for exclusive content and early access to episodes. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts. More insights from Katherine Schweit: Katherine Schweit. Website: Sarah Ferris Media Email: conningthecon@yahoo.com Share: If you found this episode insightful, share it with someone who might benefit from it and join the conversation on social media. RESOURCES Stop the Bleed training FBI RUN, HIDE, FIGHT This is a Sarah Ferris Media production on the Killer Podcasts Network.Check out more Sarah Ferris Media productions: CONmunity Podcast KLOOGHLESS - THE LONG CON GUILTY GREENIE THE BRAVERY ACADEMY WATCHING TWO DETECTIVES Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(Re-Release – Companion Episode) If you’ve listened to our recent update on Stop the Killing and want a clear, detailed reminder of what actually happened in Uvalde, this episode is for you. In this companion re-release, former FBI executive and use-of-force expert Katherine Schweit walks listeners through the full factual timeline of the Robb Elementary School shooting in Uvalde, Texas — drawing directly from the U.S. Department of Justice’s extensive Critical Incident Review. Rather than headlines or speculation, this episode breaks down: What law enforcement knew — and when How an active shooter was repeatedly misclassified as a barricaded subject The complete 77-minute delay between first police entry and the shooter being stopped The absence of command and control, despite dozens of officers on scene Why training, leadership, and communication failures compounded minute by minute How misinformation spread among responders, families, and medical teams What the DOJ identified as systemic breakdowns, not individual hindsight errors This episode also explains — in plain language — the critical difference between: Active shooter response (immediate engagement to stop the killing), and Barricaded subject protocols (containment and negotiation) A distinction that mattered enormously — and tragically — in Uvalde. For listeners following the current conversation and updates, this episode provides the essential context needed to understand: Why Uvalde remains a case study in what must never happen again How failures in leadership and coordination can override training What lessons the DOJ says must be learned to prevent future loss of life This is not an opinion piece.It is a fact-driven reconstruction, based on hundreds of pages of official findings, and presented to ensure the truth is understood — not forgotten. Stop the Killing examines critical incidents involving deadly force through the lens of experience, evidence, and accountability. Hosted by journalist Sarah Ferris and former FBI executive Katherine Schweit, the podcast focuses on what actually happened, why it matters, and how future tragedies can be prevented. Resources & Links: Support us on Patreon for exclusive content and early access to episodes. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts. More insights from Katherine Schweit: Katherine Schweit. Stop the Bleed training. FBI: RUN, HIDE, FIGHT. CrimeCon UK Tickets — Use DISCOUNT CODE “FERRIS” for a special offer! Check out more from Sarah Ferris Media: Conning the Con Klooghless: The Long Con Guilty Greenie Watching Two Detectives The Bravery Academy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nearly four years after the Uvalde school shooting, an unprecedented criminal trial is underway. In this episode of Stop the Killing Podcast, former FBI executive and prosecutor Katherine Schweit examines the prosecution of a responding officer charged with 29 felony counts of abandoning or endangering a child — not for what he did, but for what prosecutors argue he failed to do. This fact-based episode explains how failure-to-act cases are judged, what prosecutors must prove, and why this trial could reshape accountability in active shooter responses. Related episodes: https://evergreenpodcasts.com/stop-the-killing/s4e48-the-uvalde-shooting-a-comprehensive-analysis Resources & Links: Support us on Patreon for exclusive content and early access to episodes. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts. More insights from Katherine Schweit: Katherine Schweit. Stop the Bleed training. FBI: RUN, HIDE, FIGHT. CrimeCon UK Tickets — Use DISCOUNT CODE “FERRIS” for a special offer! Check out more from Sarah Ferris Media: Conning the Con Klooghless: The Long Con Guilty Greenie Watching Two Detectives The Bravery Academy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎧 Recommended Listening: Go Deeper on Deadly Force If you’ve just listened to our bonus episode —Minnesota ICE Shooting: Former FBI Agent Explains the Deadly Force Standard — Was It Lawful? —and want to dig deeper into how deadly force decisions are actually made, this episode is the perfect companion. To better understand the legal, psychological, and operational realities behind law enforcement use of deadly force, we recommend revisiting: With Retired FBI Agent & Host of FBI Retired Case File Review, Jerri WilliamsStop the Killing Podcast | S4E58 In this powerful episode, hosts Sarah Ferris and Katherine Schweit are joined by Jerri Williams, a retired FBI agent with 26 years of service, to unpack what actually goes into a decision to fire a weapon — long before a single shot is ever taken. While our Minnesota ICE bonus episode focuses on how deadly force is legally evaluated after the fact, this conversation fills in the gaps by explaining: What officers are trained to consider before force is used The FBI’s deadly force policy and decision framework The psychological burden of carrying a gun every day Why split-second decisions are shaped by training, stress, and threat perception Key differences between U.S. and UK law enforcement use-of-force standards Together, these episodes give listeners a fuller picture of how deadly force decisions are made, reviewed, and judged — without political rhetoric or hindsight bias. [00:00:00] Why deadly force is so widely misunderstood [00:03:10] The FBI deadly force policy explained [00:14:00] The psychological weight of carrying a firearm [00:20:00] Making split-second life-or-death decisions [00:30:00] Real FBI case experiences involving deadly force FBI Retired Case File Review Podcast – hosted by Jerri Williams Early Access & Bonus Episodes: Apple Podcasts & Patreon WANT THE VIDEOS? Head to YouTube 👉 @SarahFerrisMedia Resources & Links: Support us on Patreon for exclusive content and early access to episodes. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts. More insights from Katherine Schweit: Katherine Schweit. Stop the Bleed training. FBI: RUN, HIDE, FIGHT. CrimeCon UK Tickets — Use DISCOUNT CODE “FERRIS” for a special offer! Check out more from Sarah Ferris Media: CONmunity Podcast Klooghless: The Long Con Guilty Greenie Watching Two Detectives The Bravery Academy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices