Sub Club by RevenueCat

On the podcast: how Duolingo prioritizes clarity over persuasion on their paywalls, why they offer users multiple free trials instead of just one, and how adding friction to their trial reminder flow actually boosted conversions.This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.Top Takeaways: 🎯 Prioritize clarity over persuasion on your paywallsShow users a timeline of exactly what happens during their trial, when they'll be charged, and how refunds work. Duolingo found that removing uncertainty about the purchase process drives more conversions than trying to sell harder.⚡Shorter trials compound experimentation velocityCutting their free trial from 14 days to 7 doubled Duolingo's experimentation velocity. Faster feedback loops let the team kill losing tests sooner and run significantly more experiments per quarter.🔬Adding friction to trial reminders can boost conversions Duolingo tested letting users pick which day they get their expiration reminder. The extra step signaled transparency, built trust that they wouldn't be surprised by a charge, and gave them time to experience real value before deciding.About Anmol Tiwari:🚀 Director of Product Management at Duolingo, the world's most popular way to learn a language.👋 LinkedIn🖥️Carers at DuolingoFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[0:00] Introduction to Anmol Tiwari, Director of Product at Duolingo [1:05] Anmol discusses Duolingo’s focus on clarity in free trials and product offerings [2:10] How transparency in trial terms and refunds builds confidence and boosts conversions [3:45] The benefits of shorter trials for faster experimentation and better user engagement [5:10] Why Duolingo offers multiple trials to cater to different user life stages [6:30] Using machine learning to personalize subscription offers and in-app ads [7:40] How Duolingo uses contextual paywalls to increase conversions [8:50] Regional differences in trial strategies, especially in markets like China [10:10] The impact of "free tastes" and trial-like experiences in premium tiers [11:30] Using timers and reward-based copy to clearly communicate trial benefits [13:00] How Duolingo reduces day-zero cancellations and builds trust with users [14:15] Personalizing paywalls based on individual user behavior [15:30] Experimenting with new creative strategies to promote subscriptions [16:40] The role of AI in optimizing engagement and conversions [17:50] Understanding global trial preferences, particularly in China [19:10] How trust drives conversions and prevents cancellations [19:55] Closing thoughts on how transparency, experimentation, and personalization fuel growth

On the podcast: about the cost of not tracking your experiments and decisions, how refunds and chargebacks quietly erase your paywall wins, and why stacking A/B test wins should compound your growth, but almost never does.This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.Top Takeaways:💸 Map your revenue history before running new experimentsChart revenue across new subscribers, upgrades, renewals, and win-backs over time. Matching spikes and dips to past decisions reveals what actually moved the business and prevents you from re-learning expensive lessons.🤫 Refunds and chargebacks are silent killersA paywall “win” can quickly become a net negative if you aren’t tracking the downstream effects of cancellations, refunds, and chargebacks, which often hide the true cost of a seemingly successful experiment.📈If your A/B test wins aren't showing up in top-line growth, something is wrongStacking 5% and 10% experiment wins should compound, but many teams see modest growth despite a long list of "winners". Set calendar reminders to recheck winning cohorts at 3 and 6 months, especially for price changes, to catch lifts that don't hold.About Sara Grana: 🚀 Revenue Strategy Lead at Yousician, a revolutionary music platform for anyone to learn, play, create, and teach music. 👋 LinkedInFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[0:00] Introduction to Sara Grana, Revenue Strategy Lead at Yousician[1:05] The importance of tracking experiments and business decisions in subscription apps[2:19] Mapping revenue and understanding its evolution across different user segments[3:06] Tracking revenue changes and connecting them to business decisions[4:34] The pitfalls of focusing too much on early funnel metrics and ignoring long-term impacts[5:26] The impact of chargebacks and refunds on paywall performance and customer retention[7:20] Why understanding downstream effects is crucial for making smart pricing decisions[8:44] The challenges and opportunities of introducing new subscription plans (e.g., lifetime subscriptions)[9:43] How commercial strategy influences churn rates and renewals[13:13] The importance of rechecking experiments after months to measure long-term impact[14:52] Sara's advice on when to revisit experiments based on their impact on pricing and user behavior[15:49] Tracking cohort data for subscription retention and understanding renewal trends[16:21] Why surprising lifts in experiments may require deeper investigation[17:13] The mismatch between short-term experiment results and long-term growth expectations[18:02] Final thoughts on driving sustainable growth, tracking, and adapting strategies over time

On the podcast, I talk with Michael and Mark about the boom in hardware-enabled subscriptions, why nothing worked until they stopped optimizing and started building a better product, and how they doubled their price to $79 even though the data said they could charge more.Top Takeaways:📱 Hardware-enabled subscriptions need daily usage to work Devices that sit unused make subscription value harder to justify, but products that become the heartbeat of daily routines (like a family calendar) naturally create subscription demand.🎯 Stop optimizing when you should be buildingLimited resources force careful prioritization, and sometimes the biggest wins come from building genuinely valuable features rather than running endless conversion experiments.💰 Price based on customer emotion, not just dataTesting showed $99 would maximize revenue, but qualitative research revealed $79 felt fair while $99 approached "disgust territory," so they chose the lower price for long-term goodwill.🏗️ Build a great product before scaling marketingSkylight tried to scale Calendar in 2021-22 but the product wasn't ready, leading to wasted marketing spend and false negatives until they focused on getting to 40+ NPS first.🛍️ Retail partnerships are the ultimate influencerBeing in Costco and Best Buy provides a stamp of quality that can't be underestimated, and multi-channel distribution drives higher overall growth despite lower subscription attach rates in some channels.About Michael Segal & Mark Ungerer:🚀 CEO, Skylight📱 Michael Segal is the CEO of Skylight, a family tech company best known for its digital frames and calendars. Michael, a former venture capitalist, brings a unique perspective to Skylight’s growth strategy, focusing on balancing growth with profitability. He shares anecdotes about Skylight’s journey from hardware to subscription models, the importance of understanding customers' emotions about pricing, and how the team navigates the challenges of scaling both hardware and software.👋 LinkedIn🚀 CPO, Skylight📱 Mark Ungerer is the Chief Product Officer at Skylight, where he leads product strategy, development, and design. With a keen focus on creating seamless user experiences, Mark discusses Skylight’s approach to subscriptions, how they test and refine features based on user feedback, and the key role retail partnerships play in building trust and credibility. 👋 LinkedInFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[0:00] The balance between growth and profit: Making decisions based on business goals[3:22] Timing the introduction of subscriptions: Skylight's early adoption and consumer reception[5:35] The hardware-enabled subscription boom: Market maturity and Skylight’s position[8:00] Unique challenges of marketing hardware-enabled subscriptions: Overcoming consumer skepticism[10:52] How Skylight integrates hardware with daily family life to drive subscription value[12:47] Pricing strategy: The magic behind Skylight’s price increase and minimal subscriber loss[17:43] Challenges in scaling growth: How Skylight navigates its multi-channel strategy[24:15] Shifting from free trials to subscription: The evolution of Skylight’s approach to testing[27:35] The importance of talking to customers: Using qualitative feedback to guide decisions[30:00] Retail partnerships as a growth strategy[33:45] Subscription dynamics: How pricing and subscription models shape Skylight’s business[36:25] Scaling with limited resources: Skylight’s approach to growth without a dedicated growth PM[38:40] Navigating hardware, software, and subscription moats[42:00] Biggest win: The success of the $79 subscription price increase[44:05] Biggest fail: Learning from free trial experiments and the need for more growth testing[46:01] Growth would be easier with more resources and strategic price adjustments for wider market reach[48:30] The importance of reducing friction in onboarding for increased conversions[52:30] The challenges of balancing customer acquisition with retention efforts[55:02] Skylight's vision for long-term customer value and growth[57:45] The impact of reducing friction in purchasing: How simple changes can dramatically increase conversion rates[59:10] Closing thoughts on growth strategy: Aiming for long-term success, not short-term wins

On the podcast, I talk with Cem about the premium trap many apps fall into, why free trials work even for freemium products, and how ‘try for $0.00’ actually outperforms ‘try for free’.Top Takeaways:💡 Protect the free moat — always Short-term revenue tricks like paywalling free features make metrics spike — then stall. Sustainable freemium growth depends on preserving free value. It’s not just ethical; it’s strategic. Pulling back too much invites competitors to offer what you took away, weakening both your brand and your growth loop.🧪 A/B test relentlessly — but know when to lead with intuition Testing is essential, but not infallible. With 400+ experiments running at once, you’ll often see trade-offs between revenue and user experience. The art of product management is knowing when to ignore short-term data and make the long-term call that preserves user trust and helps achieve strategic goals.🔁 Freemium is a growth engine, not a trade-off Your free users aren’t freeloaders — they’re your marketing engine. When you improve the free experience, you strengthen organic growth through word of mouth. Growth slows when you nickel-and-dime; it compounds when you delight.💰 Monetize with empathy, not extraction Introducing monetization requires a cultural shift. The key is measuring everything — retention, reviews, complaints per DAU — and optimizing for user experience, not just ARPU. Test cautiously, communicate transparently, and say no to anything that erodes trust.🧠 Build for everyone, not a persona In large-scale apps, personas can be counterproductive. People learn, play, and engage for wildly different reasons. Designing for inclusivity and broad appeal helps scale from millions to billions of users without alienating key segments.💡 Strategic and Creative Use of Ads Ads at Duolingo were introduced carefully with the goal of balancing monetization with a positive user experience. The focus is on surfacing ads at non-intrusive moments, such as after completing a lesson, and on carefully controlling ad content. Duolingo even partners with advertisers to integrate elements of Duolingo branding into third-party ads. About Cem Kansu:🚀Chief Product Officer at Duolingo📱 Cem Kansu is the former VP of Product at Duolingo, where he led the company’s monetization strategy, introducing ads and subscriptions that turned Duolingo into a sustainable business. With deep expertise in product development and user experience, he helped grow subscriptions to over 80% of revenue, while keeping the core product free and mission-driven.👋 LinkedInFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[0:00] Cem discusses balancing profitability with long-term goals[0:36] Duolingo’s first monetization strategy: ads[2:02] The pivot from crowdsourcing translations to new monetization models[3:49] Streak repair as Duolingo’s first in-app purchase experiment[5:43] Shifting company culture to embrace monetization[7:20] The influence of investors on Duolingo’s monetization[8:00] Introducing ads without harming user experience[10:31] Handling user complaints and data-driven adjustments[12:07] Ensuring ad quality through strict control[13:53] Direct ad partnerships to improve user experience[16:30] Ads vs subscription: monetization strategy decision[18:43] The impact of free trials on subscription growth[20:22] Evolution of Duolingo’s subscription offerings[22:39] Adding features like offline learning and ad-free experiences[24:22] Pivoting from separate apps to integrating topics in one[26:43] Overcoming design challenges to fit new topics[28:55] Duolingo’s competition with other screen time apps[32:00] Leveraging AI to enhance the language learning experience[35:18] The role of AI in Duolingo’s growth[37:32] Balancing free vs paid features for growth[40:24] Decisions on adding/removing premium features[43:35] Lessons from the failed human tutor feature[45:10] Challenges in scaling a large product like Duolingo[47:12] Long-term growth focus and user base expansion[49:30] Design, testing, and iteration at Duolingo[54:10] Ongoing improvements in learning efficacy and retention[57:15] Duolingo’s future plans and expansion goals

On the podcast, I talk with Alper about the competitive advantage of ignoring (some) best practices, the risk of drawing false conclusions when researching competitor ads, and why poor metrics are just facts until proven problematic.Top Takeaways:📊 Challenge Best Practices Test what works for your app and market, even if it goes against common advice. Adapt best practices to your data and current stage.💡 Facts vs. Problems Low trial conversions aren’t always a problem—sometimes they’re just a fact of your setup. Only treat them as a problem after you’ve tested and ruled out other factors.🎯 Quality Over Quantity in Creative Testing It’s not about testing hundreds of creatives—it’s about testing fewer, but with stronger hypotheses. Focus on creative iterations that drive high success rates, not just metrics.⚖️ Strategic Control of Spend Set guardrails and adjust bids based on performance. Test spend limits, but always maintain control over your budget and its allocation.💬 Be Inspired Learn from competitors, but don’t mimic their exact strategies. Customize based on your own data and target audience.🔍 Instrument Your Data RightAccurate data is key. Whether it’s MMP, in-app analytics, or creative performance, ensure you interpret results accurately to drive better decisions and scale effectively.About Alper Taner:🚀 Head of Performance Marketing at a stealth-mode app studio.📱 With over 10 years in mobile growth, Alper drives user acquisition and marketing tech strategies, managing 8-figure budgets. He’s known for challenging conventional marketing practices and leveraging data to fuel growth.👋 LinkedInFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights: [0:00] Introduction to Alper Taner and his mobile growth expertise[1:39] Why challenging best practices and testing your own data is crucial[5:04] Poor metrics are facts, not problems[8:10] Creative testing: Focus on quality and strong hypotheses, not just quantity[12:00] Set spend guardrails and control budget allocation for better results[15:30] Learn from competitors, but don’t copy their strategies blindly[19:10] Accurate data is key: instrument it right for smarter decisions[22:18] Small event mapping changes can lead to significant performance boosts[27:00] Don’t shy away from unconventional strategies[32:45] Iteration is key for creative optimization[37:20] Manage budget thresholds in creative testing to avoid overspending[41:00] Understand platform algorithms and guide them to work for you[46:00] Use guardrails and budget caps to control spend while optimizing performance[49:50] Balance risk and experimentation with data-backed decision-making[54:05] Retention and user behavior drive long-term growth[58:00] Key lessons from creative testing: Adjust based on results[1:00:30] Mixing creativity with data is the key to optimized user acquisition

On the podcast we talk with Ravi about subscriptions as a force multiplier for consumables, why narratives matter more than metrics in goal-setting, and why you might want to try a longer onboarding, or a shorter one.📊 Stack the demand curveTinder didn’t just offer one price—it built a staircase of value. Low-tier subs, premium upgrades, and microtransactions filled in the gaps of user willingness to pay. The result? More people paid something, and some paid a lot. Don’t pick one price point. Map the whole curve. 🎯 Create value before monetizationThe fastest way to expand your TAM? Get users to the “aha” moment faster. Tinder made onboarding nearly instant to tap into a new, younger audience. In contrast, Sesame Care increased conversions with a 25-step flow by increasing user confidence. Friction isn’t the enemy—poor timing is.💰 Free is a monetization strategyAt Tinder, 85–90% of users never paid. But their presence was the product—fueling demand and justifying spend for the other 10–15%. Don’t underestimate free users. Sometimes, they’re the reason someone else is willing to pay.🧪 Price is productTinder didn’t guess what users would pay. It ran hundreds of localized price tests across SKUs to learn what users valued. Pricing isn’t a spreadsheet exercise—it’s part of the product experience and should be tested like one.📐 Narrative beats metricsOKRs fail when they skip the why. Ravi’s NCTs framework, which stands for Narratives, Commitments, Tasks, anchors goals in story and context. If your team is hitting the numbers but drifting on focus, it’s probably time to start with the story—not the spreadsheet.🪞 Monetization reveals product market fitMost apps undercharge. A scanner app might seem basic, but if it powers daily workflows, it’s worth real money. Set your price high enough to test willingness, not just conversion. If no one bites, you don’t have a monetization problem—you have a product one.About Ravi Mehta: 🔥 Former Chief Product Officer at Tinder and product leader at Meta, TripAdvisor, and Microsoft.📈 Ravi helps companies turn behavioral insights into scalable monetization systems — from multi-tier subscriptions to habit-forming onboarding flows.🗣 “If you have a product that’s solving an important need for someone, there’s a system around that that fits into the problem you’re solving, and you should think about the value of that system rather than just the price.”👋 LinkedInFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights: [0:00] Subscriptions as a force multiplier for consumables[3:03] Filling the demand curve with tiers and microtransactions[6:47] Why free-to-play was Tinder’s breakthrough innovation[10:26] Matching monetization to different user behaviors[13:09] Creating value for whales without breaking the game[17:22] Experimenting your way into the perfect pricing model[20:03] When free, trial, or paid onboarding makes the most sense[23:47] Why apps are undermonetized and how to fix it[28:43] Why a longer onboarding boosted conversion 40%[35:20] How shorter onboarding expanded Tinder’s total market[43:03] Narratives, commitments, and tasks: a better goal framework[01:02:49] Growth is easier when you own your audience

On the podcast, I talk with Michael about the blessing and curse of having a brand, why post-purchase is the perfect upsell moment, and why partnerships are hard to pull off but can be well worth the effort.Top Takeaways:🌱Growth is Built on ValueSustainable growth comes from consistently adding value, not just short-term tactics. Success lies in constantly evolving your product to meet users' needs. By regularly introducing new features and improving the user experience, premium products remain relevant and compelling. That value is continuous, with acquisition and retention working together to drive long-term growth.🎯 Personalize for Retention Different users have different goals, and understanding this is key to retention. Tailor offerings to specific user needs, whether it is job seekers, hobbyists, or niche audiences. By tailoring plans and features to user intent, brands can keep their products relevant. Without this personalization, users may disengage and churn.📊 Test to OptimizeWith hundreds of A/B tests each year, Condé Nast learns what works quickly. Data replaces debate, helping the team iterate faster. The goal is not just to optimize, it is to foster a culture of constant learning and growth.🔄 Retention Is a Journey Churn does not always mean goodbye. Many users return later when their needs change. Offering win-back deals, fresh trials, and adding new value helps bring users back and turn them into long-term subscribers. Retention is a process, not a straight line.🤖 AI Supports, Not LeadsAI should enhance the user experience, not overshadow it. AI’s role is to solve problems, helping users find content or personalize their experience, while staying behind the scenes. The real value is in solving the user’s needs, not in the technology itself.About Michael Ribero: 👨‍💻 SVP, Global Consumer Revenue at Condé Nast.📈 Michael leads the subscription and growth strategies for some of the world’s most iconic media brands, including Vogue, GQ, The New Yorker, and Wired. He focuses on optimizing user engagement, experimenting with monetization strategies, and evolving the digital experiences that drive both free and paid subscriptions.💡 "We’ve learned that true growth comes from continually adding value. Our approach isn’t just about scaling; it’s about providing lasting benefits that evolve with our users’ needs."👋 LinkedInFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights: [0:00] Why launching a premium tier isn’t always the right move[2:51] Competing with AI-native upstarts and influencer content[5:39] Media's frenemy dynamic with platforms like Meta[8:25] Balancing free vs. paid content without eroding brand trust[11:46] How to recover from a failed paywall experiment[13:23] What bundling and post-purchase upsells look like at Condé Nast[19:41] Real-world LTV boosts from zero-CAC upsell moments[22:30] Lessons from low-priced tiers like the Washington Post’s Starter Pack[26:07] Tiering vs. focus: when a premium plan is actually a distraction