Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

Some state lawmakers drive Uber to afford the job. The best of them are walking away. Layla Zaidane runs the largest nonpartisan organization for young lawmakers in the country, and her team's "Exit Interview" found that the most promising bipartisan legislators are leaving office over problems that are entirely fixable. This conversation launches Terms of Service, a new collaboration between Future Caucus and TP&R that takes you inside what it actually costs to serve. Key Takeaways The math doesn't work. The average state lawmaker earns about $20,000 less than the average American worker. That pushes good people toward second jobs or out of office entirely. The best ones are quitting. The legislators most willing to work across the aisle are resigning at high rates, and the reasons are solvable: pay, staff, scheduling, safety. State houses are less broken than you think. Smaller chambers and retail-scale politics let lawmakers build the trust that gridlocked institutions can't. Violence brought out the worst and the best. As threats against officials rose, some of the most powerful responses came from bipartisan pairs refusing to let it become normal. About Our Guest Layla Zaidane is president and CEO of Future Caucus, the largest nonpartisan organization for young lawmakers in the United States, working with Gen Z and millennial legislators across 36 states to govern across party lines. Links and Resources Future Caucus: futurecaucus.org | @futurecaucus Layla Zaidane: @lzaidane TP&R is proud to be part of The Democracy Group podcast network. ✅ If this one landed, leave a quick review so others looking for conversations like it can find them too: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Find Corey @coreysnathan across the socials, and join the conversation over on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com The Terms of Service series is a partnership between Scan Media and Future Caucus. Executive Producers: Future Caucus and Layla Zaidane. Learn more about Future Caucus at www.futurecaucus.org.

“It’s easy to hate things you don’t understand.” Two minutes. Real impact. Leave a review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Kristin Wilson spent three decades producing Washington coverage, including a decade running CNN’s Capitol Hill unit, with stops at NBC, CBS, Nightline, the BBC, and Fox News. Now she’s co-founder and executive producer of 535, a journalist-founded, nonpartisan newsroom built to cover the policy of Congress. The conversation gets into what gets lost when the cameras chase conflict, why bipartisan work still happens when no one is looking, and how seeing legislators as people makes them harder to write off. Calls to Action ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn’t have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Policy is the story. 535 covers the appropriations fights, committee work, and behind-the-scenes deals that move real money and shape real lives. It’s harder to dislike people up close. Watch members talk about what they care about, and the cartoon version gets harder to hold onto. The aisle still gets crossed. From steak invitations to co-sponsored bills, members find ways to work together when they decide to. Ask, then listen. Kristin’s whole craft comes down to asking a real question and actually hearing the answer. About Our Guest Kristin Wilson is co-founder and executive producer of 535, a new kind of newsroom for the policy of Congress. Over nearly 30 years she led CNN’s Hill coverage and produced for NBC, CBS, Nightline, the BBC, and Fox News. Links and Resources 535 - 535.news Kristin Wilson - @kristin-wilson Grateful to our friends at The Democracy Group - www.democracygroup.org Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room. Yes, really.

He drove a truck across America listening to talk radio. Somewhere between 9/11, the Obama years, and a long personal reckoning with his own anger, Wilk Wilkinson became one of the most unlikely figures in the depolarization movement: a committed conservative who believes the two-party system is tearing the country apart, and who is doing something about it. Wilk is the Director of Media Systems and Operations for Braver Angels, the nation's largest cross-partisan, volunteer-led movement to bridge the partisan divide. He also hosts the podcast Derate the Hate. In this conversation, Wilk traces his political awakening from post-9/11 talk radio to becoming radicalized by the polarization he once participated in, and why he eventually chose the harder path. He and Corey dig into tribalism, political identity, January 6th, immigration enforcement, the two-party doom loop, and what it actually takes to stay in conversation across real disagreement. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Political identity has become personal identity, and that's the root of the problem. Wilk argues that the single most destructive shift in American civic life is that people now treat political attacks as personal attacks. When your party becomes your tribe, criticism of a policy feels like an assault on who you are. That's not politics anymore. That's warfare. Tribalism isn't a flaw. It's a feature we have to consciously override. We evolved as tribal creatures because belonging to a group kept us alive. The problem is that ancient wiring hasn't caught up with modern civil society. Wilk and Corey agree: staying in real conversation across difference isn't natural. It's a decision. Most Trump voters aren't MAGA loyalists, and treating them as a monolith makes everything worse. Citing the More in Common "Beyond MAGA" research, Wilk points out that only about 29% of the 77 million people who voted for Trump in 2024 fit the MAGA hardliner profile. When we flatten a diverse group into a caricature of its worst actors, we guarantee the doom loop continues. You can support border security and still call out a botched implementation. Wilk doesn't hedge: he wanted the border closed. He also calls the deportation strategy's implementation a disaster, citing constitutional violations, erosion of institutional trust, and the breakdown of basic civic norms. This is what it sounds like when a conservative applies principles rather than party loyalty. The fix starts local, not national. Both Corey and Wilk see more reason for hope at the community and state level than in Washington. Local relationships, shared problems, and the ability to actually look someone in the eye still create space for the kind of trust that national politics has almost completely destroyed. About Our Guest Wilk Wilkinson is the Director of Media Systems and Operations for Braver Angels, and the host of Derate the Hate, a podcast offering practical tools and honest conversations for people trying to grow personally and engage civically. A self-described committed conservative, Wilk has spent years in the bridge-building space doing the kind of work he once would have dismissed. Find him at deratedhate.com and on Substack by searching "Wil Wilkinson." Links and Resources Braver Angels: braverangels.org Derate the Hate: deratethehate.com More in Common "Beyond MAGA" research: beyondmaga.us Monica Guzman / I Never Thought of It That Way: moniguzman.com/book Find us and engage with us on YouTube, Substack