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Recent episodes
Super Advertising Bans to Employees, Advisor Education Reforms, and the Unintended Consequences of the Performance Test
Apr 21, 2026
Unknown duration
Insurance Gaps, Member Service, and International Investment Trends Impacting Super Funds
Apr 15, 2026
Unknown duration
Measuring retirement outcomes with Anthony Saliba
Apr 9, 2026
Unknown duration
Competitive Flows and Adviser Influence: Dissecting Australia’s Super Landscape with David Bell
Mar 23, 2026
Unknown duration
Navigating Death Benefit Claims: Modernising Estate Management in Superannuation
Mar 2, 2026
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| Date | Episode | Description | Length | ||||||
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| 4/21/26 |  Super Advertising Bans to Employees, Advisor Education Reforms, and the Unintended Consequences of the Performance Test | #24. On this episode of That Super Show, co-hosts Neil Benson and Sarah Penn break down the Treasury’s proposed ban on super fund advertising during onboarding, the shakeup in advisor education requirements, and dig into why APRA and the ATO are getting twitchy about payday super implementation (spoiler: small business, we see you…). Plus, are performance tests quietly killing investment innovation in Australia?RESOURCESSuperannuation advertising ban consultation launches - employers can only display employee's stapled fund, employer's default fund, or a MySuper product from another fund. Bill has passed both houses, now Treasury is consulting on the regulations to support it.Education reform for financial advisers - Consult hub - Treasury has launched consultation paper regarding new class of financial advisors as part of DBFO T2.Payday Super Readiness | APRA - ATO and APRA have published a letter to RSEs to brace themselves and buckle up! APRA has concerns about some funds' readiness for Payday Super.‘Parliamentary Friends’ launch sharpens focus on super - Super ReviewSuperannuation performance test is stuck in red tape and could be creating a stagnant economy - performance test doesn't encourage outperformance, it discourages underperformance. As a result, money flows into indices, not into innovation.That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX websiteMentioned in this episode:Mayflower Consulting This episode is brought to you by Mayflower Consulting. If your product team is capable, stretched, and the important structural work keeps getting pushed, that's where we come in. We embed with your team, get the work done, and leave you more capable.Mayflower Consulting | — | ||||||
| 4/15/26 | Insurance Gaps, Member Service, and International Investment Trends Impacting Super Funds | #23 Welcome to That Super Show, your inside look at Australia’s superannuation industry.Neil Benson and Sarah Penn dive into the latest trends, challenges, and opportunities shaping super—from industry roadshows in the US to advances in AI, and the evolving insurance landscape.They discuss why Australian funds are looking globally for investments, the efficiency and value of industry trips, and how regulation is impacting innovation. The episode also tackles important issues like the insurance gap for young blue-collar workers and the sharp rise in complaints within the sector, highlighting leadership changes and reflecting on the balance between investment returns and member services.Grab your coffee, settle in, and join Neil and Sarah for another engaging and honest conversation about what’s working, what’s changing, and what needs improving in superannuation.ARTICLESASFA warns super insurance reforms have left thousands uncovered - Super ReviewAustralian superannuation sector plans to woo US investors, companies and Trump officials in Washington galaBuilding a Stronger and Fairer Super System Act 2026 – Draft Regulations'We've let our members down': Watson | Financial StandardAFCA receives record number of complaints in 2025 calendar yearThat Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX websiteMentioned in this episode:Mayflower Consulting This episode is brought to you by Mayflower Consulting. If your product team is capable, stretched, and the important structural work keeps getting pushed, that's where we come in. We embed with your team, get the work done, and leave you more capable.Mayflower Consulting | — | ||||||
| 4/9/26 | Measuring retirement outcomes with Anthony Saliba | #22. Co-hosts Sarah Penn and Neil Benson chat with Anthony Saliba, Partner at Deloitte Actuarial Consulting. We cover:Retirement income measurement challenge: Determining if retirement income solutions are working is complex, especially with new best practice principles released by Treasury.Best practice principles explained: Treasury’s principles aim to guide trustees in supporting retirees, but are non-binding and allow for flexibility and market-driven solutions.Principles-based vs. prescriptive rules: The industry favours a principles-based approach; there is ongoing discussion about whether these guidelines will eventually become enforceable standards.Realities for smaller funds: Some super funds may decide to exit members into specialist retirement funds rather than investing heavily in retirement offerings for a small retiree base.Complexity for members: Switching from accumulation to retirement products and navigating financial advice, age pension eligibility, and new lifetime income products creates challenges, especially for those without access to personal advice.Emphasis on member confidence: Leading funds invest in digital tools and education to improve member confidence and provide support beyond traditional advice models.Measuring outcomes: Funds should use objective, evidence-based data to evaluate retirement strategies and avoid “marking their own homework.”Personalisation and cohorts: True hyper-personalisation is aspirational; most funds cohort members by life stage and balance, with some moving toward more nuanced demographic analysis.Data access limitations: Lack of access to data like home ownership and marital status hampers more tailored solutions; innovative tools to gather member data can help bridge this gap.Regulatory barriers to engagement: Strict personal advice laws prevent funds from using member data for targeted communications and are seen as a roadblock to better member engagement.Drawdown patterns: Most retirees draw the minimum required, sometimes due to uncertainty or default settings; there are calls to encourage greater, more sustainable drawdowns early in retirement.Missed opportunities: Members often pay unnecessary tax or miss out on age pension entitlements simply by not taking key actions (like moving to drawdown phase or promptly applying for the pension).Annuities and product innovation: Lifetime income products can help manage longevity risk but suffer from low uptake; the industry is seeing product innovation and working toward better “solution” messaging.Asset-rich, income-poor issue: The system facilitates cases where people use super to increase home equity and then qualify for age pension; potential for equity release products and need for policy refinement.Key takeaway for trustees: Always use an evidence-based, objective approach when measuring outcomes and designing solutions, and clearly communicate trade-offs to help members make informed decisions.ANTHONY SALIBAFollow Anthony on LinkedInFollow Deloitte on LinkedInThat Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX websiteMentioned in this episode:Mayflower ConsultingThis episode is brought to you by Mayflower Consulting. We work with product teams across super funds, fund managers, and platforms to move faster. Faster PDS updates, faster decisions, and less friction. If governance is slowing you down, we can fix that.Mayflower Consulting | — | ||||||
| 3/23/26 | Competitive Flows and Adviser Influence: Dissecting Australia’s Super Landscape with David Bell | #21. Co-hosts Sarah Penn and Neil Benson host David Bell, Executive Director at Conexus Institute. We cover:Industry growth: Superannuation assets grew by 12% last year, mostly from strong investment returns. Four funds are now “mega funds” with over $200 billion AUM.Mergers and consolidation: Fund mergers continue to shape the sector. Aware’s merger with TelstraSuper tipped it into mega fund status.Flow dynamics: Natural flows (member contributions) are steady, but competitive flows are increasingly advisor-led with platforms gaining pace.Advisor-driven switching: More than half of asset switches are now influenced by advisers, with platforms offering efficiency and adviser-friendly features.Marketing spend: Funds increased marketing by 10%, but there's little evidence it’s driving competitive inflows. Most spend is defensive—trying to stem outflows.Retirement focus: Demographics highlight 40% of assets held by members 55+. Funds are investing in retirement products and guidance, but competitive barriers remain for retaining members approaching retirement.SMSF trends: SMSFs are seeing net growth and most are established without a formal adviser. But there’s also a flow back as members tire of administration.Future landscape: The sector is heading for more mega funds and continued consolidation. Launching new funds is possible, but achieving scale remains a decades-long effort.Key takeaway: Sector priorities are shifting towards retirement, adviser functionality, and efficiency—but core flows, consolidation, and operational differentiation remain fundamental for fund leaders.Bonus: Blame marketing? Absolutely!That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX websiteMentioned in this episode:Mayflower Consulting This episode is brought to you by Mayflower Consulting. If your product team is capable, stretched, and the important structural work keeps getting pushed, that's where we come in. We embed with your team, get the work done, and leave you more capable.Mayflower Consulting | — | ||||||
| 3/2/26 | Navigating Death Benefit Claims: Modernising Estate Management in Superannuation | #20. Sarah flies solo! And discusses death benefit claims and deceased estates with Ben Darlow and Sarah Poole from EstateXchange. We cover:The death benefit challenge: Processing death benefit claims is often complex, manual, and paper-heavy, despite the growing need for efficiency as $5.4 trillion in wealth transfers between generations.Executors’ reality: Families face interacting with up to 37 organisations after a death, making estate administration overwhelming and inefficient.Why processes haven’t modernised: Death claims processes have seen historic underinvestment, lack of regulation, and minimal focus compared to other fund interactions.Reframing the process: Super funds should consider their role as just one of many organisations grieving families deal with, adjusting expectations around paperwork and timelines accordingly.Triage and risk: Funds can streamline basic claims by adopting triage methods, applying more rigour only where needed, and embracing technology to reduce repetitive low-value tasks.Reporting pitfalls: Many organisations’ reporting paints an overly optimistic picture; meaningful reporting requires standardised data and clear lead/lag indicators, plus a culture that welcomes surfacing issues.Fraud as an emerging risk: As more processes move online, the risk of fraud in deceased estates is rising, with up to 9% of consumers encountering actual fraud and 17% experiencing near misses.Looking forward: The future may include digital vaults, seamless handover to executors, faster probate, and platforms that free up locked assets, helping families and the economy.Want to get in touch or learn more about EstateXchange?Sarah Poole - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-poole1/Ben Darlow - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-darlow-1162862b4/That Super Show is brought to you by Mayflower Consulting — helping fund managers, platforms and super funds build faster, smarter product teams. Find out more at mayflower.com.au. And if you're not already a subscriber, join 450+ finserv product professionals reading #SSFPP every week here. | — | ||||||
| 2/16/26 | Brand Recognition, Churn, and Retirement: What’s Really Moving the Superannuation Needle | #19. Co-hosts Neil Benson and Sarah Penn unpack the latest trends and news impacting the superannuation industry.We cover:Super brand recognition: Surprising results from a Conjointly brand tracker highlight low public awareness of major super brands, including only 57% recognition for AussieSuper and 49% for Hostplus, challenging industry assumptions.The complexity and cost of rebranding: Rebrands are frequent but often more about internal politics than member benefit, and establishing a new name remains a major challenge.The effectiveness of marketing: Despite significant marketing spend, switching rates and member engagement appear largely unchanged, raising questions about return on investment.Member churn and fund flows: Recent reports show industry fund outflows to adviser-led platforms are modest compared to overall inflows, with most money still coming in via default arrangements rather than active switching.Retention dilemmas: As members with larger balances approach retirement, funds struggle to retain them, particularly when financial advisers commonly recommend rolling over to retail platforms.Regulatory challenges and innovation barriers: Uncertainty around advice laws is inhibiting proactive member communications and innovation, especially in retirement products.Fraud and scam protection: ASIC urges funds to strengthen member communications to prevent fraud, but losses remain minor (at $22 million), and tougher controls could erode member experience.Confidence and legislative change: Frequent government tinkering causes member concern, yet most changes aim to improve fairness, and fears of losing all super are unfounded.New superannuation legislation: Discussion around the Building a Stronger and Fairer Super System bill, with support for balancing changes to both high and low-balance accounts.Industry news: Notable updates include Commonwealth Super’s major tech upgrade, HESTA CEO Debbie Blakey’s retirement, and the release of a new AFCA complaints guide.Personal achievement: Neil celebrates passing the RG 146 superannuation qualification after a challenging process.RESOURCESSuper brand tracker confirms golden status of AustralianSuper | Financial Standard - Brand Tracker by Conjointly based on 1344 individuals. 57% recognised AustralianSuper, 49% Hostplus, 48% AMP, 47% Rest, 45% CBUS. Survey also ranked consideration, performance perception, and customer support.Superannuation customer churn hits First Super, NGS Super and Hostplus hardest. 6% churn on average, based on APRA data analysed by Elula. Lots of funds claiming the switches were inactive, low balance accounts being swept up by ATO. APRA has noticed that member accounts and flows into accounts outside the top 10 had declined.Industry super funds are losing business to retail wealth platforms such as HUB24 and Netwealth at an accelerating pace. Members seeking more holistic retirement advice. One analyst reckoned that a 10% uplift in advisor capacity could see $100B in flows to retail platforms to which my financial advisor responded, "I've got more chance of captaining the Australian Cricket Team & marrying Heidi Klum in the same year than a 10% increase in advisers resulting in $100bn of flows."Commonwealth Super Corp to consolidate legacy IT systems | Financial Standard. CSC to consolidate a number of systems. It manages several schemes and it sounds like they are bringing them all together. Mercer is the admin partner and Novigi is the data partner. Limited service period. Imagine they watched HESTA's experience closely.Super trustees told to up fraud protection game | Financial Standard ASIC compared super sector's fraud prevention to banks and found significant gaps, mostly in documentation and member communications. $22m in super-related scams in 2025.AFCA's new superannuation complaints guide (for funds and members)Treasury Laws Amendment (Building a Stronger and Fairer Super System) Bill 2026 – Parliament of Australia - second reading today. Boost to LISTO and changes to tax concessions on balances over $3m and 10.That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 2/2/26 | ASIC’s 2026 Priorities: What Super Funds Need to Know | #18. Co-hosts Sarah Penn and Neil Benson discuss ASIC’s 2026 priorities and what they mean for super funds.Private credit risks: ASIC flags concerns about retail exposure to private market credit products. Experience of fund managers and transparency are under the spotlight.Operational failures: Claims delays, cyber resilience, fraud and poor IT get a special mention - 'nuf said really!Aggressive product marketing: will be stopping. We hope.Audit and valuation standards: Poor quality sustainability reporting and inconsistent unlisted asset valuations—ASIC wants more evidence and comparability between funds.Plus a cooks tour of the ASIC priorities that are 'super adjacent'. | — | ||||||
| 1/19/26 | Adrian Gervasoni: Transforming Member Portals for Superannuation Success | #17. Co-hosts Sarah Penn and Neil Benson chat with Adrian Gervasoni, Executive Manager Advice Services at Industry Fund Services. We cover a lot of ground, including:Member engagement challengesRethinking the member journeySuper as 'your future wage'Super portals try to present too much infoThe power of nudgesThe new class of advisers - what this means in practiseWhat we can learn from banks closing branches and moving customers onlineWebinars and events are fun but only reach a small number of peopleThe future of portalsWant to hear more from Adrian? Follow him on LinkedIn.And have ideas for other guests we should interview? Drop us a line and let us know! | — | ||||||
| 1/7/26 | Welcome to 2026! | #16. Co-hosts Neil Benson and Sarah Penn return for the first episode of 2026 with a roundup of big news and trends in the superannuation industry. We cover:Holiday updates: Neil did some DIY renovations and Sarah struggled to find a builder, opting for travel instead.CSLR debate: Misha Schubert from the Super Members Council suggests SMSFs should pay for the Compensation Scheme of Last Resort, not industry fund members; both hosts agree she has a fair point.Managed investment schemes: Discussion of how APRA-regulated funds often use managed schemes and why strong investment governance is critical, especially in light of recent investment failures.Investment performance tests: Schubert’s call for performance tests on every super investment option prompts debate about the practicality versus potential benefits, with both hosts questioning the cost-benefit of such extensive reforms.Member engagement survey: SMC data shows younger, more educated members are much more engaged, but Neil and Sarah note the correlation is likely skewed by survey respondent bias and income/balance factors.Super fund branding and advertising: The hosts discuss the pros and cons of memorable ad campaigns, from hairy mascots to high-profile sports sponsorships, and examine their impact on fund awareness and acquisition.Third party administrator shakeup: Upcoming acquisition of Mercer’s admin business by Apex signals increased consolidation; the hosts express concerns over whether this will drive real improvements in service quality.Outsourcing vs. insourcing: Large funds may increasingly bring admin back in-house to manage cost and service quality, leading to more hybrid operating models.The “mechanistic vs. ecosystem” mindset: Sarah introduces insights from another podcast advocating for treating businesses and the super industry as living systems rather than machines—emphasizing test-and-learn approaches and accounting for human complexity rather than blaming process participants.Claims management complexity: Discussion on why systemic, ecosystem-level solutions are needed for claim delays rather than blaming individuals.Big IdeaThe Problem of Mechanistic ThinkingFavourite Xmas giftSarah's new Owala waterbottleLeast favourite Xmas giftAn 'avocado knife'. With apologies to Neil's wife! | — | ||||||
| 12/29/25 | Superannuation's 2025 in Review: Key Legislation, Tech Shifts, and Industry Growing Pains | #15. Neil Benson and Sarah Penn dive into a lively year-end review of Australia’s superannuation industry. From legislative wins and regulatory challenges to industry shakeups and innovative tech trends, they unpack the major highlights and low points that shaped 2025. You’ll hear their candid takes on big topics like Division 296 reforms, the SG rate increase, the impact of Payday Super, and ongoing compensation scheme debates. Plus, hear all about the headaches of system migrations—as well as the opportunities AI is unlocking for super funds.2025 Highlights: Div296 was fixed, LISTO was increased, Pay Day Super legislation passed, and of course, That Super Show was launched too!2025 Lowlights: investigation into collapse of Shield Master Fund and First Guardian Master Trust widens, shortcomings in death benefits and insurance claim handling have been papered-over.Daniel Mulino taps super funds to prop up Compensation Scheme of Last Resort. Mulino taps super sector to help pay CSLR special levy | Financial StandardHESTA has extra license conditions imposed by APRA. 7 weeks' downtime switching from MUFG to GROW. Irony of being slapped by the regulator who wants funds to innovate and improve productivity. APRA imposes additional licence conditions on HESTA | APRAIrony of rumours that MUFG may acquire GROW! Administration technology is old, never designed for payday super or decumulation, and has to be the same across as many funds as possible. What MUFG's bid for Grow says about the state of super admin - Investment MagazineGoverning the Invisible: by Ash Priest and Alex Monynihan at Novigi, about governing AI from a super fund trustee's perspective using ISO 42001 for AI management systems. Governing the invisible: Why super funds need to get real about AI | FS SuperThat Super Show Shorts. Daily short videos on news and views for superannuation professionals. That Super Show Shorts - YouTubeThat Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
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| 12/15/25 | Navigating the Superannuation Talent Market with Victoria Butt, Parity Consulting | #14. Cohosts Neil Benson and Sarah Penn are joined by Victoria Butt, CEO and founder of Parity Consulting, to unpack the latest trends shaping the talent market as we head toward 2026. Drawing on fresh insights from nearly 5,000 industry professionals, they discuss the shifting priorities of Australia's financial services workforce, the surprising dynamics around return-to-office mandates, and the ongoing impacts of mergers and acquisitions in superannuation.From the rise of exciting projects as a top motivator to the persistent importance of remuneration, Victoria sheds light on how macroeconomic factors, AI, and company culture are redefining careers in the sector. The conversation also touches on the growing demand for adaptable leaders, the under-recognised power of mentorship in data roles, and the critical need for organisations to address burnout and investment in career development. Whether you’re interested in the future of work, looking to progress your career, or simply wanting to stay ahead in the world of super, this episode is packed with valuable insights you won’t want to miss.OUR GUESTVictoria Butt on LinkedInParity Consulting on LinkedInDownload Parity Consulting's FY2025 Salary GuideThat Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 11/24/25 | Member Engagement Breakthroughs: Insights from Engage 2025 | #13. Hosts Neil Benson and Sarah Penn dive deep into the world of Australian superannuation. This week, they're joined by an insightful panel of guests—including Emma Jonceski (Aware Super), Cathy Duncan (TCS), Alana Devitt (CoreData), Dan McKean (Chandler), and Zoe Sheehan (TAL)—as they unpack all the highlights from the IBRC Engage 2025 Future of Member Engagement, Comms, and Experience Forum.From industry stats that’ll make you rethink member engagement, to personal stories and clever ideas buzzing around the conference, you’ll hear the latest on how funds are transforming their communications, the role of technology and AI, and the untapped opportunities to enhance member experience. Get ready for candid conversations, practical examples, and future-focused thinking—all designed to help you, your fund, and your members stay ahead in a rapidly evolving super landscape. Let’s get into it!Thanks to our special guests from Engage 2025:Emma Jonceski on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmajonceskiCathy Duncan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathyduncan1Alana Devitt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanadevittDaniel McKean on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-mckean-a0b6bb22Zoe Sheehan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zoe-sheehan-045a62121That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 11/17/25 | How Will Australians Retire in 2040? Insights from the ASFA Conference | #12 Neil and Sarah have just wrapped up at the ASFA conference, and they reconnect with industry leaders and discuss the latest trends shaping super, from digital innovation and regulatory challenges to the future of retirement. This episode features expert insights from guests like Jane Couchman from Aware Super, Zein el Hassan from Mills Oakley, and Shaun Bransdon from TAL Australia, covering everything from the rapid rise of AI in compliance to the changing expectations of retirement for future generations. 00:34 Exciting exhibitors at ASFA Conference03:01 Zen el Hassan, Partner at Mills Oakley, on AI in advice and super06:03 Sarah's top picks of ASFA Conference sessions10:00 Sarah's big idea: Separating accumulation funds from retirement funds12:41 Retirement Funds: Accumulation vs. Drawdown16:08 Shaun Bransdon, GM of Retirement and Wealth at TAL Australia, on retirement in 204016:40 "Future of Retirement in Australia"18:14 Australia's aging population challenges23:02 Jane Couchman, Chief Risk Officer and Group Executive, Sustainability at Aware Super, on balancing risk and compliance with innovation 26:12 Future of retirement the super system in 205028:08 Reflections on ASFA Con 2025 and looking forward to 2026NEW! You can now find That Super Show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thatsuper-showThat Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 11/14/25 | Superannuation’s Challenges Exposed at ASFA Conference 2025 | #11. We’re excited to bring you the highlights from the cloakroom of the expo hall at this year’s ASFA Conference on the Gold Coast. Only the most glamourous locations for your intrepid hosts, dear listener!Neil and Sarah unpack what’s happening in superannuation, share feedback from listeners, preview ASFA Con 2025, and tackle some of the trickiest questions facing funds and members today.🎤 ASFA Conference 2025 – What’s in Store?Sarah and Neil are on-site, despite hiding out “in the cloakroom,” ready to network, attend breakout sessions, and catch up with clients and industry players.Some exciting names in the speaker lineup mentioned by our hosts include:Jim Chalmers (Treasurer) and Daniel Molino (Assistant Treasurer)Ted O’Brien (Shadow Treasurer)Brad Jones (Assistant Governor, RBA)Carmen Beverly-Smith (Executive Director for Super, APRA)Guy Opperman (former UK Pensions and Financial Inclusion Minister—also a steeplechase jockey!)Heather Gray (Lead Ombudsman for Super, AFCA, and friend of the show)Katie Miller (Deputy CEO, AUSTRAC)Simon Kucher (Demographer and chart enthusiast)Expect plenty of debates, policy discussions, and a little bit of classic super industry gossip.🍾 Evening Events & Industry NetworkingSarah has her ticket for the MetLife event, while Neil looks forward to SS&C/Chandler event and networking with the well-connected IQ Group folks. With suppliers bringing forward their main events, tonight’s the perfect chance for catch-ups and maybe a bit of chaperoning!💡 Big Idea: Are We Protecting Super Members Enough?A real-life story from Neil’s Melbourne Cup lunch sparks a crucial debate: What happens when members cash out their super early and risk running out of savings before qualifying for the Age Pension? The team dives deep:Should our system be even more “default” to help protect low-literacy and risk-averse members?Are lifecycle products the answer, or would that erode personal choice too much?Is it worse to have people lose out through fraud or through their own poor financial decisions?Sarah notes that while defaults work for most, the outliers prove the system isn’t perfect. It’s sobering to hear that many people—especially singles without a home—struggle far more than we might realise.📈 Super Fund Investment Mix: Are “Balanced” Options Really Balanced?Our hosts observe that MySuper products have become much more growth-oriented, moving from a 50/50 split to 70/30 or even 80/20 in favor of growth assets. Sarah loves a good graph, but worries marketing may mislead members into thinking these funds are “balanced”—when in reality, they’re taking much more risk.🔍 Transparency & Labeling in Super: Do Members Need More Detail?From asset type labelling (is property “growth” or “defensive”?) to demands for granular investment disclosure, our hosts agree: There’s a market segment that wants more info, but most people benefit from simplicity. If you crave details, wrapping platforms and SMSFs might be your best bet—but beware the challenge of beating professional fund managers.🤳 Now on YouTube!The show has launched a new YouTube channel—perfect for those who love to listen on the tube. (No smiling faces yet, but keep the pressure on Sarah for a video edition!)The Super Show - YouTube🚩 Think We Should Talk?If there’s a topic you’d love us to tackle or you think we should connect, just reply or book a meeting via the show notes.Don’t forget: Follow That Super Show, share with your super colleagues, and watch for our next live wrap-up post-ASFA!Until next time,— Neil & SarahThat Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 10/28/25 | Superannuation Under the Microscope: Fees, Taxes, The Gender Gap, and Annuities | #10. Co-hosts Sarah Penn and Neil Benson discuss the latest news and issues affecting the Australian superannuation sector. We cover:Big fines in the industry: ASIC and CBUS settle member claims delays with a $23.5 million fine, highlighting the financial pain for profit-to-member funds and contrasting it with corporately-owned funds like Macquarie.Super tax complexity: The introduction of new rates brings the tally to 20 different tax rates within superannuation, sparking debate about fairness and system complexity.Gender disparity in super balances: Data shows continuing gaps between men’s and women’s average and median super balances, with recent policy changes like paid super on government maternity leave seen as marginal improvements.Divorce and superannuation: Settlements rarely reflect the true value difference between super balances and physical assets, impacting long-term retirement outcomes, especially for women.Fee trends: Despite falling headline fees for six consecutive years, the total super sector fees have climbed in dollar terms, raising concerns about the real impact of the race to the bottom and its effect on administration quality.Member communication and personalisation: Most super fund communication is still generic and lacks true personalisation, missing opportunities to increase engagement and education.Retirement income covenant and annuities: Growing attention on how funds can help members better manage income in retirement, including new product ideas like digital forms presenting personalized drawdown rates; discussion on whether mandated annuities could be a future government intervention.Feedback - we love it: let us know what you think and we'll give you a shout out on the show.That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 10/20/25 | Sanity Prevails: Breaking Down the Latest Superannuation Tax Changes and Payday Super | #9. Neil and Sarah sit down to discuss the latest developments in Australian superannuation policy. After two years of debate and lobbying, the government has announced changes to the proposed Div296 tax on high-balance super accounts, opting to tax only realised capital gains rather than unrealised gains. They also explore the introduction of a new 40% tax rate on income from super balances over $10 million, and consider the broader impact of these reforms on both high-net-worth individuals and everyday members. The conversation covers updates to the low-income super tax offset (LISTO) and the rollout of Payday Super, which will require employers to pay super contributions within seven days of payday. Neil and Sarah reflect on the legislative process, practical challenges for employers and funds, and how these changes might affect the retirement landscape moving forward.That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 10/6/25 | Joe Longo’s Exits ASIC Exit, SMSF Risks, DIV296 Delays and Aged Pension Asset Test Debate | #8. Co-hosts Neil Benson and Sarah Penn discuss the latest news and events affecting Australia's superannuation sector, including:Joe Longo is stepping down as chair of ASICMacquarie Investment Management offers compensation to SMSF trustees who invested in Shield through its wrap platformThe role of superannuation trustees in determining which investments are available to members and whether SMSF trustees should require a qualificationThe role of the Compensation Scheme of Last Resort in compensating clients of failed advisorsDelays to Div296 legislation and the principal of taxing unrealised capital gainsIFM Investments to close their private equity unit despite its track record of successful investments in growing mid-market Australian businessesChant West, in collaboration with Bec Wilson, announces six funds have received their inaugural Epic Retirement TickWill superannuation achieve its goal of relieving the burden on taxpayers to support Aged Pensions?RESOURCESIFM Investors exits Australian PE strategy | Financial StandardThe Epic Retirement Tick - Bec WilsonGovernment considers scrapping controversial aspects of Div 296 super tax | Accounting TimesMacquarie admits Shield failings, will pay members $321m - ifaASIC chair Joe Longo to step down in 2026 — Capital Brief CONTACT THE HOSTSNeil Benson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilbenson/ Sarah Penn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahpennau/ | — | ||||||
| 9/22/25 | Navigating NPP and Payday Super: what super funds need to know | #7. Co-hosts Sarah Penn and Neil chat with Marnie Ryan, head of product innovation and enablement at AP+ (formerly NPP Australia). We cover:NPP and Superannuation: From 1 July 2026, funds must accept real-time payments via the New Payments Platform (NPP)—mandatory, and separate from Payday Super legislation.Modernising Payments: Transition away from BECS is set for 2030. Super funds need to get ready to shift from batched, delayed payments to instant, always-on transactions.Reconciliation Revolution: NPP upgrades solve historic problems with payment reference numbers, making reconciliation faster and easier—especially important for super contributions.Pilot Programs in Action: Leading funds and clearinghouses are already piloting real-time payments, so the future is now.Fraud and Security: New features like confirmation of payee and PayID add extra layers of trust and validation for fund rollovers and member withdrawals.Getting Ready: Execs should engage tech, ops, and employer services teams now. Start talking to your bank and payment partners to understand your platform readiness.Member Experience: Real-time payments create new member expectations. Faster clearing and instant notifications can improve trust and encourage members to check contributions more often.Innovation Pipeline: Expect more streamlined experiences with products like PayTo, reducing manual entry and making top-ups or pension drawdowns seamless—24/7, even at year-end crunch time.Key takeaway: Don’t wait for legislation—engage with your banking and payment providers now to be NPP-ready before the 2026 deadline.Marnie Ryan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marnie-ryan-33b5a741Australian Payments Plus: https://www.auspayplus.com.au/That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 9/8/25 | Bold moves for super: reforms, regulation and the housing investment debate | #6. Co-hosts Sarah Penn and Neil Benson break down the latest news and debates in the superannuation sector. We cover:Legislative inaction: Despite big talk from government and industry summits, there’s little movement yet on significant superannuation or tax reforms.Super funds vs. ATO: HESTA and ART are taking legal action against the ATO over imputation credits, fighting for millions owed to members and highlighting rare but bold fund challenges to regulators.Performance test wrap-up: All 54 MySuper products passed this year, signaling improved standards, but some products—especially trustee-directed ones—remain borderline or repeatedly fail.Product closures and member impact: Funds are reviewing and closing underperforming or underutilized investment options, which can be challenging for members accustomed to “set and forget” strategies.Housing investment hurdles: Discussion on the role of super funds in addressing the housing crisis; fund appetite tempered by regulatory barriers and the lack of collaborative investment pathways with government and global partners.Retirement income guidance: Treasury’s draft guidance pushes funds to segment retired cohorts, but Sarah questions the practicality when funds lack access to broader financial data like Centrelink or home ownership.Annuities debate: Despite financial wellness benefits, annuities have an image problem and low demand, with Sarah arguing sales challenges outweigh consumer appetite, while Neil remains optimistic for innovation.Data-driven advice barriers: Funds can’t access enough external data to offer holistic advice; calls for leveraging consumer data rights and streamlining processes to improve member outcomes and reduce advice costs.Rethinking member engagement: The importance of designing processes that help customers provide funds with the right information, enabling more effective support and digital solutions.Upcoming events: Recommendations for FSC’s retirement conference, member engagement forums, and the ASFA conference on the Gold Coast.This episode unpacks systemic friction points in super—from regulatory reform and investor confidence to practical hurdles in retirement solutions and member support.That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 8/25/25 | Inside complaints data: Insights from Heather Gray, Lead Ombudsman Superannuation at AFCA | #5. Co-hosts Sarah Penn and Neil Benson chat with Heather Gray, Lead Obudsman, Superannuation at Australian Financial Complaints Authority. We cover:Complaints as Feedback: Complaints are valuable for identifying service improvement areas, even though funds aim to minimize them.Drop in Insurance Delay Complaints: There has been a notable reduction (39%) in complaints about delays in insurance claims within super funds, indicating successful improvements.Importance of Communication: Clear and timely communication—especially during incidents like cyber attacks—is critical in maintaining trust and managing complaints.Systemic Issues vs. Human Error: Sarah is surprised to learn that maybe a high proportion of human error-caused complaints is actually right!Data Usage: Complaint data is transparent and shared with trustees, allowing for benchmarking and industry-wide improvement.Rising Member Expectations: Members now expect higher service standards from funds, paralleling experiences in other industries.Clarity in Correspondence: Superannuation communications need to be clear, tailored, and actionable to prevent confusion and reduce complaints.That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 8/11/25 | From DDO to FAR: What’s shaping superannuation’s future right now | #4. Sarah Penn and Neil Benson discuss the latest news and views affecting Australian superannuation professionals.AFCA Complaints Down: Overall complaints about financial services are down 4%, with superannuation-specific complaints dropping a huge 16%. Notably, complaints about claims handling fell by 39%, signalling real operational improvements across the industry.DDO & “Reasonable Steps” Under the Microscope: Design and Distribution Obligations (DDO) have moved the focus from “buyer beware” to responsible design and distribution. Expect ASIC to sharpen its scrutiny—not just on disclosures (like TMDs), but on product distributors and the steps funds take to ensure their products reach the right consumers.The FAR Era Begins: The Financial Accountability Regime (FAR) is now live, bringing tough new documentation and accountability standards for executives. The need for clear, demonstrable “reasonable steps” is real—so now’s the time for internal checks and keeping your house in order.We also touched on the value of finishing what you start (hello, RG146 training!) and managing those ever-spinning plates. And if you’re in the document weeds, don’t miss the PDS Manager Roundtable coming up in August.That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 7/28/25 | Well-intentioned mishaps: when tech goes wrong | #3. Sarah Penn (CEO of Mayflower Consulting) and Neil Benson (CEO of Superware) discuss the latest news and views affecting Australian superannuation professionals.Do we really care about 1 year fund returns or is it just marketing?Binding death benefit nominations - don't write 100.00%Sarah was at risk conference so wants to talk it.When good intentions end badly and what we can learn when it all goes sidewaysBig ideas:the bow tie of risk management - example here: https://www.manycaps.com/blog/risk/8-steps-to-bow-tie-analysis. Neil has a new complaints scorecard tool: https://superware.ai/financial-services/complaints-scorecardThat Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX websiteRecommendations:Coaching real leaders podcast https://hbr.org/2020/12/podcast-coaching-real-leadersRelay.App for creating AI agents: https://relay.app | — | ||||||
| 7/14/25 | Is it OK for funds to spend $$$ on marketing? | #2. Sarah Penn and Neil Benson discuss the latest news and views affecting Australian superannuation professionals.NEWS:APRA on the warpath re fund expenditure. "Where APRA identifies practices which fall short of legal requirements, APRA will utilise the full range of its powers to hold an RSE licensee accountable."Super funds on track for 3rd consecutive year of robust returns. AMP includes crpyto in it's super portfolio.ATO approves NPP as payment method for payday super. BIG IDEA:Framing, and why it matters in superOUR RECOMMENDATIONS:Sarah recommends 'Coaching real leaders' HBR podcast.Neil recommends fyxer.ai to help manage and write emails for you (but just be careful it doesn't create more work for you!)That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
| 6/30/25 | It's Launch Day! | #1. #4. Sarah Penn (CEO of Mayflower Consulting) and Neil Benson discuss the latest news and views affecting Australian superannuation professionals.NEWS:Div296/$3m super tax/unrealised gainstax benefits from super more than cost of age pension systemAPRA tells funds to get on with consider MFAimpacts of super AML exemptionJoe Longo (ASIC Director) tells super directors to do betterAnd speaking of directors, CPS510 (Governance) out for consultationQuality of Advice review - second tranche of legislation finally on the wayBIG IDEA:how to successfully navigate a business case for software when the outcome isn't certain (because it never is)how to manage up - HBR Women at Work podcastRECOMMENDATIONS:nominate yourself or someone else for an award. It's worth the effort.IBR Annual Future Risks 2025: Superannuation Risks and Governance Conference, 9-10 July 2025, Sydney. Register here.That Super ShowVisit That Super Show website and become a newsletter subscriberFollow That Super Show on LinkedInFollow That Super Show on YouTubeEmail That Super ShowSarah Penn, Chief Executive at Mayflower ConsultingConnect with Sarah on LinkedInFollow Mayflower Consulting on LinkedInVisit Mayflower Consulting's websiteNeil Benson, Chief Product Officer at ChandlerCXConnect with Neil on LinkedInFollow ChandlerCX on LinkedInVisit ChandlerCX website | — | ||||||
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