The Argument

Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias debate which historical figures deserve to be canceled and which shouldn’t have been. With the Trump administration pushing to restore statues of figures removed during the “Great Wokening,” they ask what a statue, a holiday, or a name on a school is actually for. Jerusalem lays out her test: why we honor someone and whether their cruelty is the main thing they’re remembered for. Matt argues the bigger problem is that we undercommemorate people, and that we should want more statues, not fewer.Plus, a peer review on whether machine learning can predict who will be shot, and how much power the government should have to use that data.(0:00) Who deserves to be canceled?(1:30) Why Matt wants more statues, not fewer(3:43) Jerusalem’s test for canceling a historical figure(9:04) Should we cancel Columbus Day?(11:24) The Cesar Chavez cancellation(19:46) Robert E. Lee and the myth of the Lost Cause(28:08) Cancel Paul Ehrlich of The Population Bomb(39:07) Uncanceling Flannery O’Connor(48:35) Uncanceling Thomas Jefferson(59:27) Peer Review: Can AI predict who will be shot?Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

How can Europe's liberals stop the far-right? Matt Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas debate the far right's rise in Germany, France, and beyond, and whether Europe's mainstream parties mishandled immigration and opened the door for the AfD and Marine Le Pen. They get into what Sweden and Denmark got right on integration, why deportations and asylum deterrence are so hard, whether liberals should ever govern with the far right, and why Europe's strange aversion to air conditioning is a gift to populists.Plus a peer review on whether having more kids pushes mothers into remote work.(00:00) Are liberals losing Europe?(6:24) Magna Carta, freedom of movement, and immigration(14:05) Dril tweets and the sane-washing dilemma(20:29) Should liberals give into populist demands?(28:14) Joe Biden, deportations, and asylum(31:47) Libya, the Mediterranean, and deterrence(41:02) What Sweden and Denmark got right(48:20) France, the UK, and air conditioning(52:02) Peer Review: moms and remote workSupport the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

For this month’s book club, Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias read Friedrich von Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom,” the 1944 book that argued central planning inevitably leads to totalitarianism and became one of the most cited books in American and British politics. Jerusalem and Matt get into whether Hayek’s central thesis actually explains Nazi Germany, the similarities between socialism and fascism, and why authoritarian regimes are always run by scumbags instead of nice-guy technocrats.(00:00) Are we on the road to serfdom?(02:25) Hayek's real argument: central planning leads to dictatorship(05:26) Britain puts Hayek's theory to the test(08:20) What's the line between socialism and the welfare state?(14:49) Why this 80-year-old debate keeps coming back(20:45) The viral tweet about life before Uber(31:49) What does "economic freedom" actually mean?(48:22) Decentralizing power: philanthropy, federalism, and price controls(56:45) When regulation goes too far(01:15:28) Why the worst people always end up on topSupport the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Most Americans fear that AI is about to cause widespread job losses, so Matt Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas brought in their first-ever guest, Timothy B. Lee of the Understanding AI newsletter, to break it all down. Matt thinks a white-collar wipeout is coming. Jerusalem and Tim think we've got enough time to adapt.Plus, a peer review on a new paper about the effects of mixed-use zoning. (00:00) Our first guest: Tim Lee on AI and jobs(02:27) Matt's case for the white-collar wipeout(05:43) Jobs are bundles of tasks(08:26) The O-ring theory: why one human still matters(18:02) Tim's answer: it's all about timescales(21:27) Chess, Starbucks, and the human preference problem(24:28) The protectionism scramble: gas pumps and self-driving trucks(30:47) The "canaries in the coal mine" study on young workers(38:45) Channeling 2015 Matt: just run a hotter economy(49:30) Peer review: What's actually wrong with zoning?Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.