The Breakup Theory

Hi everyone! I have been putting up episodes less frequently, but I'm hoping to change that. I just turned in the manuscript from my next book, which took over a bunch of time. But I am planning for some great conversations coming up over the next months, so stay tuned. This is a special episode. I got to talk with two beautiful thinkers and doers, Josh Rivers and Conner Habib. Josh makes the podcast Busy Being Black, where he hosts deep, heartfelt discussions with Black artists, writers, and philosophers. I love Josh's openness in his approach, the way he forges connections with his conversation partners, and how he brings so many strands of ideas and practices together. Conner makes Against Everyone with Conner Habib, where he also hosts discussions with thinkers, writers, and artists about political, spiritual, and creative questions. Conner digs deep into the material and always has so much wisdom to offer. Also, make sure you check out Conner's harrowing debut novel, Hawk Mountain. It hit me somewhere deep, familiar, unnerving. I loved it. If you listen to the Breakup Theory, you may already be familiar with Conner, since we have recorded multiple times together. But if you haven't checked out Josh's or Conner's work, you are about to find a huge catalog of important topics and amazing people in conversation. Go do it now! Josh and Conner are honestly two of my favorite people to talk with. My favored approach to thinking is in dialogue with others, not following any specific plan, but moving associatively through the meeting of our thoughts, references, and questions. I love going into something not knowing how I will come out of it, welcoming in discovery that fires me up and sets me on new paths. Both Josh and Conner are the kind of people who thrive on this approach too. This is what we do in the following conversation. It was sparked by a series Conner made on his podcast called A New Spiritual Society, inspired by one of Conner's spiritual teachers Rupdolph Steiner's idea of fourfolding. Conner follows this framework to plumb the depths of the spiritual heart of culture, politics, and the economy. You don't have to listen to this series to understand our discussion, but I highly recommend that you do. Conner specifically gears his thinking to our current situation and provides insight into how we might reframe the way we do things and the way we are situated in the world. The series is really a feat of the imagination, and also very helpful. Josh and I came in to follow the thread of the spiritual heart, bringing in our own current projects and thinking. All of us have different passions, with some overlapping, and this makes for a wide-ranging conversation. At the end, Josh prompts us each to ask a question of the other two, which kind of works to sum up the lines of thoughts we follow. JOSHUA: How do you care for what you love? CONNER: If you let go of the set of capitalism vs communism (or socialism) what's left in your view of how to change the world? SHULI: How do you open things up so that you have a new and altered view? At the end, Josh then invites us to dance. Maybe you will find that desire in yourself as well. I loved this conversation and I'm still energized by it, so I hope you find it inspiring too. I won't go on longer because our talk is substantial. Let me know what you think! Before we get into the conversation, I'll do my usual rundown of ways you can support this project. If you like this podcast, please rate it and follow it on the different apps where you listen to it. That does help boost the potential audience. Also, tell your friends too! I love hearing from people about their thoughts—but as always any questions you might want us to tackle on the show. You can leave us a message at (917) 426-6548 or using the form https://form.jotform.com/thebreakuptheory/stories. Or find me on Instagram @thebreakuptheory and DM me. If you want to access more of my work, as well as the work of the wonderful carla joy bergman, Dani Burlison, and Vicky Osterweil, you can sign up for our newsletter at https://cawshinythings.com. If you subscribe, you will also get access to all of our articles, our discord server where we have discussion, movie nights, writing workshops, and book clubs, and more. Our podcasts, advice column, and zine and sticker library are always free. I am proud of the thing that we are building together, creating a support system for the lonely and often impoverished work of writing—and also finding new ways to engage with new people committed to collective thinking and writing. If you want to reach any of us there, you can email Caw.Shinythings@proton.me The Breakup Theory is a member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchist podcasts, which pulls together a wide variety of shows taking an anarchist perspective on culture, politics, actions, and more.

Today I'm re-releasing a conversation I recorded for the Final Straw Radio with Joshua Clover in 2021. Our conversation focuses around his 2016 book Riot. Strike. Riot, in part within the context of the George Floyd rebellion. I wanted to present this conversation in memoriam of Joshua, who we learned last week had died. As many of the testimonials you can find online, Joshua was a great friend and comrade to a wide range of people. He is remembered not just as a poet and an academic thinker, but also as someone ready to throw down in the streets. I didn't know him really beyond his work and this conversation, but I appreciated the depth of his thinking and his willingness to go into it with me. I am rereleasing this episode in its entirety as it was originally released by The Final Straw Radio. I wanted to do so in order to suggest anyone who has not listened to the show to check it out further. This is an essential long-running anarchist podcast that presents conversations with people involved in many different struggles, a necessary tool for us to figure out how to form international solidarities. It also engages with anarchist writing and culture. It's a unique wide-ranging breadth of subjects. They gave me a chance to dig into wideranging and complex conversations with writers and people on the ground.I highly recommend checking them out, and digging into their past episodes. They also produce transcript zines of many of their conversations. You can find them on all the podcasting platforms or at thefinalstrawradio.noblogs.com Both the Final Straw and the Breakup theory are part of the anarchist network of podcasts Channel Zero. This is another resource for so much great anarchist work. To find more conversations like these, plus totally different approaches, go to channelzeronetwork.com I've been away for awhile, but I have new shows to release, and plan to start posting again regularly. As of May 12, I will be moving all of my writing to my new collaborative project CAW, an online journal of autonomous writing. This is a writers collective formed by me, carla joy bergman, Dani Burlison, and Vicky Osterweil. It will be a subscription based service to help support us in devoting more time to our work. In addition to articles, essays, and interviews, we have an advice column and a free library of zines and stickers. Check us out and subscribe at cawshinythings.com.

On today's episode, I have a conversation with Vicky Osterweil, a fellow member of our new writing collective, CAW, and the author of the indispensable history and provocation, In Defense of Looting, and a forthcoming book on intellectual property and Disney, called The Extended Universe. We decided to have this conversation in the opening month of the Trump administration to game out some possible scenarios as we observe the administration demolishing the constitutional and administrative state, against all the establishment assurances the the institutions can withstand any attack. Though our conversation does engage the fear and threat of the situation, we also discuss openings for us to take bold action that uses this moment of (bad) revolution to expand our collective power. Vicky is one of my favorite people to talk with. She has a brilliant analytical mind, an incredible story of political history and knowledge, and an inspiring way to read the devastating moments against a belief in the necessity to act. In fact, Vicky emphasizes the potential timeline of power consolidation by these fascist forces and the urgency for us to prepare ourselves for managing our lives and mounting attack. This was recorded at the end of February, so of course there have been new terrible political developments, but the analysis itself still stands as a way for us to assess the possibilities. If you haven't already, please go over to cawshinythings.com and sign up to read the works that Vicky, me, and the amazing carla joy bergman and dani burlison are sharing there. Things have been incredibly difficult for me (and everyone), but I am coming back to regular recording and writing, so stay tuned. My column there is called "she's not there." But all of us are posting our articles, essays, writing prompts, and recordings—there is plenty for you to sink your teeth into. And I will be also offering other projects along with my collaborators. The online journal is currently open to subscribers but will pivot soon to a subscription service with a pay what you want option. Check it out and help spread the word. As always, if you want to submit a question, scenario, or problem for us to discuss from an anarchist/autonomous and queer perspective of ending things, you can write us at https://form.jotform.com/thebreakuptheory/stories or call us at (917) 526-6548. We have a couple agony letter episodes coming up, and we love to hear from you. If you like this podcast, please share with your friends, rate us, and follow us where it is you receive pods. The Breakup Theory is a member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchist podcasts. CZN will help you discover a library of amazing audio projects, so check them out at channelzeronetwork.com

In today's episode, River and I return to a conversation about Gaza, focusing on the discourse surrounding it, the function of antisemitism in the colonial creation of Israel, the state of resistance and the state of Israel's genocide, as well as decolonization and the way whiteness and identification with institutions hampers leftist's solidarity with decolonial movements. Perhaps a fitting epigraph for this episode would be a line from Aimé Césaire that River quotes in our conversation: "Europe is indefensible." The end of Israel is not enough, we need the end of Europe and the end of the United States. One facet of our discussion is trying to get at the way we can find true solidarity with and inspiration from the resistance in Palestine. How do we bring the decolonial force from the colony to the heart of empire? In thinking about this, we touch on what stops people from having solidarity, or what trips up white leftists in their conceptions of decolonization. We also talk a bit about knowledge production in the academy and writing and thinking during this endless series of horrors surrounding us and escalating every day. But don't worry, it's not just doom and gloom: we find hope in the ways that Palestinians and others are teaching us life independent from the state. Remember, as always, we have an online submission form at https://form.jotform.com/thebreakuptheory/stories and a phone line at ‪(917) 426-6548. Please write and call us, to share your break up stories, your questions about ending things, and your hopes for liberation! Our letters episodes are a recurring feature on the show, and we find that our writers appreciate the ways we help think of these situations, so keep writing us! If you like this show, please share with your friends and rate and follow us wherever you get podcasts. You can also support the project and my writing by subscribing to my patreon patreon.com/thebreakuptheory. If you have any extra cash, you can sign up for $5/month, though nothing there is paywalled. On my patreon, I regularly post both short and long written pieces, along with episodes, and other conversations I'm having. I am so grateful for all of you supporting me and this project! The Breakup Theory is a member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchist podcasts. CZN brings together a slew of amazing audio projects, so check them out at https://channelzeronetwork.com/

On today's episode, I got a chance to talk with Solomon Brager, the artist and author of the recently published graphic memoir, Heavyweight. Solomon Brager is a cartoonist and writer living in Brooklyn, New York. They are a 2023-2025 Jerome Hill Artists Fellow, a member of the Pinko magazine editorial collective and the director of community engagement at Jewish Currents magazine. Heavyweight deals with Solomon's own search through the archives to learn the story of their German Jewish family fleeing the Nazis and escaping the Holocaust, specifically through Solomon's elective affinity for a great grandfather, Erich, who was a boxer (and punched Nazis). The book is careful to tell the story of the Holocaust within a larger context of European colonial genocide, so that we see the eventual targeting of Jews, Roma, Sinti, and others as a continuation of German policies in Africa, for example. In this light, as Sol and I discuss, we can also view the eventual statehood of Israel as a culmination of this history of colonialism and violence. Though the book's focus isn't on Israel, we do spend time in this conversation analyzing the dynamics of Zionism in relation to the stories and teaching of the Holocaust to American Jews, and the idea of Jewish exceptionalism. One of the things I loved, and that we discuss also, is the way Sol represents in the book their own ambivalence about the this history, both in terms of family relations and scholarly practice, an ambivalence that Sol discusses as an ethical relationship to the past, an openness to being wrong. In this light, I also love the way this book depicts a kind of trans choosing of history and ancestors, as Sol finds a link to a Jewish masculinity in their great-grandfather: this is another ethical ambivalence, one that I think shows us we can tell stories of the past that don't determine our future as inevitable, while still honoring the complexities of the dead. I highly recommend this book, it is honest, vulnerable, and thoughtful. You can find Solomon Brager at https://solomonbrager.com, or on Instagram @jbbrager. I also am linking a comic that Sol did for Jewish Currents debunking claims to Jewish indigeneity, "When Settlers Become Native"—they mention it in our talk, and it's a text I have also called on in my own writing. I also recommend checking out Pinko and Jewish Currents. As always, We have an online submission form at https://form.jotform.com/thebreakuptheory/stories and a phone line at ‪(917) 426-6548. Please write and call us, to share your break up stories, your questions about ending things, and your hopes for liberation! If you like this show, please share with your friends and rate and follow us wherever you get podcasts. You can also support the project and my writing by subscribing to my patreon patreon.com/thebreakuptheory. If you have any extra cash, you can sign up for $5/month, though nothing there is paywalled. On my patreon, I regularly post both short and long written pieces, along with episodes, and other conversations I'm having. I am so grateful for all of you supporting me and this project! The Breakup Theory is a member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchist podcasts. Check out this link to find many other important and fun projects, like my buddies, The Final Straw Radio.

On today's episode, I am presenting the talk that Cindy Barukh Milstein and I did at the Another Carolina Anarchist Bookfair, which we called An Anarchism of Despair. When we planned to collaborate for the talk, we checked in on where we were mentally, emotionally, and politically in relation to the specific moment, filled with frustrations around anarchists' involvement in movements, and the walls that we run into time and time again. We wanted to lean into the despair, to look it in the face, and to learn from it how we might consider acting from this position. This is the description we wrote for the talk: After October 7, the upswell of Palestinian solidarity has been heartening. But in the mechanics of the movement itself, we have found ourselves stuck in outdated forms of protest, marching in circles, making demands that will never be heeded. It feels like each iteration of rebellion meets its end at the blatancy of power: we are shown again that those who govern won't help us. And all this while watching a genocide in real time, feeling desperate and powerless. We have the energy and will, but not the means. What can we do, then, with this spike of liberatory urges? This discussion will interrogate anarchism at this particular moment from the position of despair. Where does it meet its limits? Where does it show up to keep the energy going? Are we endlessly hitting our heads against the wall ? Or does our effort need to be seen in the long view? When faced with the impossibility of liberation and action, where do we go? We organize the talk around three central provocations, which essentially point to the ways our political actions, ideas, and horizons are circumscribed and therefore commit us to walking in circles. We then offer some thoughts about what anarchists actually do well and how we can use those practices to try to leave behind the useless forms of protest. I have included comments from two comrades who attended, Bonn and Jubilee V Debs, who made important contributions to the ideas. I keep coming down to anarchism as something that creates the possibility of action: it doesn't guarantee the consequences, but drives us to the edge where we can do something, rather than nothing. We turn away when there are no guarantees, stuck in our miserable comforts in this world, whether through the tired tropes of resistance or individual consumption as solace for work. While the state looks at us as if we are already dead, we can instead find a way to act like we are living, in the bursting of a moment that cannot be contained. If you like this show, please share with your friends and rate and follow us wherever you get podcasts. You can also support the project and my writing by subscribing to my patreon patreon.com/thebreakuptheory. If you have any extra cash, you can sign up for $5/month, though nothing there is paywalled. On my patreon, I regularly post both short and long written pieces, along with episodes, and other conversations I'm having. I am so grateful for all of you supporting me and this project! As always, We have an online submission form at https://form.jotform.com/thebreakuptheory/stories and a phone line at ‪(917) 426-6548. Please write and call us, to share your break up stories, your questions about ending things, and your hopes for liberation! The Breakup Theory is a member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchist podcasts. CZN brings together a slew of amazing audio projects, so check them out at https://channelzeronetwork.com/ And now for some despair . . .

In this episode, I talk with a student from the New School about the encampments there and what we can learn from the experience. Students at the New School set up their encampment in the lobby of the University Center in April a few days after the encampment was established at Columbia University and over 100 students were arrested. The New School student encampment last for over two weeks and eventually took the Parsons Building across the street, before President Donna Shalala had the students arrested early one morning. A few days later, faculty at the New Schools set up another encampment at the University that also lasted a couple weeks and eventually took the Welcome Center, holding it a few days before disbanding on the promise of a vote on divestment (which has not been delivered). In this conversation, we talk about the way the university administration dealt with the encampment, using less brute force than many of the other schools, and how this altered the organization of the encampment. In going through the whole experience, we discuss how our groups start mirroring bureaucracies, the use of divestment as a goal, the changing experience of study of revolutionary texts in the context of an encampment as opposed to the classroom, and more. Ultimately, we don't know where the energy that was invigorated by the encampments will turn up next in resistance to genocide and control. But it is important to look at our actions and name their consequences. If you like this show, please share with your friends and rate and follow us wherever you get podcasts. You can also support the project and my writing by subscribing to my patreon https://www.patreon.com/thebreakuptheory. If you have any extra cash, you can sign up for $5/month, though nothing there is paywalled. On my patreon, I regularly post both short and long written pieces, along with episodes, and other conversations I'm having. I am so grateful for all of you supporting me and this project! As always, We have an online submission form at https://form.jotform.com/thebreakuptheory/stories and a phone line at ‪(917) 426-6548. Please write and call us, to share your break up stories, your questions about ending things, and your hopes for liberation!

On this episode Shuli talked to Aidan Khamis, a Palestinian student at Indiana University Bloomington, about the student encampment established on the campus in solidarity with Gaza (and still existent as of the recording of this episode). Aidan gives a rundown of the initial stages of setting the camp up, the waves of violent repression from the administration and police, as well as the positive experiences of worldbuilding, collective study, and solidarity they experienced. The conversation continues with a deep and wide-ranging discussion about the tactic of encampment, the parallel of police repression and the apartheid state in occupied Palestine, the left's colonial reservations about resistance, the different fronts of decolonial struggle, and the possibilities of solidarity in the heart of empire. Aidan shares brilliant insights and makes really beautiful connections. This solidarity movement is now in a turning point as most encampments have been packed up or evicted and we move into summer, where life on campus slows down. There is much to learn from the experiences that students and faculty had together, and we don't know yet how the seeds planted in these experiences will sprout in further forms of resistance to genocide, empire, capital, and the police state. Hopefully this conversation will help spark more fires! CW: mention of violence and sexual assault Aidan shared two forms of possible support: A GoFundMe for Aidan's close friends and family: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-my-family-and-i-evacuate-out-of-gaza A friend's epoetry site that he's using to help evacuate his family: https://mizna.org/product/a-gaza-of-siege-and-genocide/ Please share and send material support! If you like this show, please share with your friends and rate and follow us wherever you get podcasts. You can also support the project and my writing by subscribing to my patreon patreon.com/thebreakuptheory. If you have any extra cash, you can sign up for $5/month, though nothing there is paywalled. On my patreon, I regularly post both short and long written pieces, along with episodes, and other conversations I'm having. I am so grateful for all of you supporting me and this project! As always, We have an online submission form at https://form.jotform.com/thebreakuptheory/storiesand a phone line at ‪(917) 426-6548. Please write and call us, to share your break up stories, your questions about ending things, and your hopes for liberation!