The Business of Soil Health

Reid Hensen, co-founder and managing partner at Celium Group, is a rancher, agricultural economist, and a data systems architect for some of the leading public and philanthropic soil health programs. His view is soil health adoption is a human systems problem, rather than an economic or technology problem. In his view “regenerative ag” is wise resource management with long-time horizons supported by trusted advisors and community problem solving. We touch on multiple financial levers of soil health, including on-farm profitability, management practice change (with some great livestock management examples), stacked enterprises, and risk management. We kept trying to bring him back to a narrow view of economics, and he kept pulling us out to consider the human factors like technical assistance and advisory support, and the importance of viewing technology as an amplifier of a system rather than a solution in and of itself. In addition, he offers a deeply informed critique of capital deployment across private, philanthropic and public avenues. Reid is empathetic, insightful, and wise, and he doesn’t sugar coat his opinions. Hope you enjoy the episode.

What is systemic investing, and how does capital orchestration move real dollars to real acres? Ivana Gazibara, Director of Prototyping at the Transformational Capital Initiative (TransCap), joins Sami and Patrick to unpack their Midwest blueprint for scaling regenerative agriculture. We cover TransCap’s transition map (and some of the barriers it surfaced), why another fund isn’t enough, and how a neutral platform can align philanthropy, catalytic, and commercial capital around shovel-ready deals. We also touch on metrics of success and why capital deployed is less important than acres impacted. 🔗 Resources mentioned in the episode TransCap Initiative (Transformation Capital Initiative) - https://transformation.capital/ Systemic Finance for Regenerative Agriculture (Transcap article introducing the capital orchestrator concept) https://medium.com/transformation-capital/systemic-finance-for-regenerative-agriculture-b8f74845be1c Transcap’s System Map of Regenerative Agriculture in the Midwest - https://transcap.kumu.io/financing-the-regenerative-agriculture-transition-in-the-midwest New Capitalism Project Lab – funder collaborative supporting TransCap’s work - https://newcapitalismproject.org/ ReFED – an analog capital orchestrator - https://refed.org/ GroundBreak Coalition (McKnight Foundation) – another analog capital orchestrator - https://groundbreakcoalition.org/

What’s happening with Section 45Z—and what does it mean for farmers, ethanol producers, and the broader regenerative agriculture movement? In this update episode, Continuum Ag founder and seventh-generation Iowa farmer Mitchell Hora returns to break down what’s new (and what’s still in limbo) for the 45Z Clean Fuel Production Credit, how policy delays and the government shutdown are impacting adoption, and what’s next for the biofuels market. We dive deep into how Continuum Ag’s TopSoil platform is helping farmers verify low-carbon practices, the economic realities of farmland, and why Mitchell believes soil health is more critical than ever for resilience and profitability. We talk about: The latest developments and delays around 45Z and the USDA’s CI calculator How the “book-and-claim” model could unlock mass farmer participation Why 45Z could be the most powerful driver of regenerative adoption yet The collision between high input costs, rising land prices, and farm debt What Mitchell’s 2024 harvest revealed about the ROI of soil health Why keeping family farms viable will require new finance models and investor partnerships

How do you turn conservation into a cash crop? From his experience in the 1980s farm crisis to $55M in outcome-based payments, Adam Kiel explains how creating market signals for conservation underpins the Soil & Water Outcomes Fund (SWOF). Adam, the Managing Director of SWOF, shares how they've built outcome-based contracts that shift risk off farmers while delivering measurable results for corporations at scale. Instead of cost-share programs, SWOF sends clear market signals that conservation has value by paying producers directly for soil, water, and climate outcomes. We talk about: How Adam’s roots in the 1980s farm crisis have shaped his mission How SWOF grew from 10k to 1M+ acres in just four years $55M already paid to farmers through outcome-based contracts The mechanics of capital flows, verification, and upfront payments Why soil sampling costs and closed-source models keep Adam up at night Where corporate demand is strongest Why producers choose to participate

This is one of the most exciting, detailed, and hopeful conversations we’ve had about the pace and structure of capital flowing to producers investing in soil health. It turns out that one of agriculture’s most opaque arenas—corporate supply chain investments in ecosystem assets—is becoming a major source of funding for soil health improvements. And it’s accelerating. As co-founder and CEO of Millpont, Dom Sutton-Vermeulen has a front-row seat to this emerging market. Millpont is building the infrastructure to ensure the integrity of ecosystem assets like carbon, water, and biodiversity. His team works across project developers and corporate buyers to ensure environmental claims are credible, not double-counted—and that producers are compensated. From this unique vantage point, Dom shares what he’s seeing: Why the market for ag ecosystem credits is accelerating with corporate buyers even as sustainability teams are shrinking The critical role of a clearing house in market governance How data is the new cash crop and how farmers and ranchers can think strategically about it Where the dollars are flowing in offset, inset, and carbon intensity (CI) markets mapped to specific production systems Why major corporations are doubling down on ecosystem asset programs—not for PR, but to manage long-term supply chain risk The extraordinary growth rate in these markets including rate of growth, acreage numbers, and whether it’s just due to the law of small numbers How Carbon Intensity is emerging as a new standard and what that means for producers in row crops vs. pasture systems Premium payment amounts for producers, from early pilot premiums to mature CI programs Opportunities Dom sees, both to build additional infrastructure companies in the space as well as project development gaps If you’re trying to make sense of this complex and fast-evolving space, Dom offers one of the clearest, most grounded perspectives we’ve heard.

We have a conversation with former FSA Administrator Zach Ducheneaux on courage, capital, and how he’s trying to rewrite the rules of ag finance. A multi-generational producer himself, Zach recently launched The Fifth C—a new lending venture challenging the short-termism baked into agricultural finance and offering a path toward long-term, relational capital. Drawing from his experience both on the land and inside federal policy, Zach unpacks the extractive norms of ag credit and introduces a new framework grounded in what he calls the missing ingredient in today’s systems: courage. We dig into the limitations of operating loans, the agency-sapping effects of short-term finance, and how producers can reclaim power in financial relationships. We also close with rapid-fire reflections on government efficiency, interest rates, and the ripple effects of tariffs on rural America. Whether you’re a producer, policymaker, investor—or simply care about the future of agriculture—this is a conversation you don’t want to miss.

In this episode I talk with independent agronomist Jerel Kratt who works in the southern Central Valley of California. He unpacks why many have become skeptical of regenerative agriculture in California: 🌪️ Visible failures in early implementations of regen practices 📉 Market realities, from the almond market collapse to the lack of a premium for regenerative crops ⚖️ Political and regulatory pressures, especially California’s Sustainable Groundwater Management Act (SGMA) These challenges have made “regenerative” a loaded term among producers and processors, and have ramped up economic pressures for producers that disincentivizes transition. But Jerel also shares his optimism. He discusses his hybrid approach—offering a path forward that is able to drastically reduce chemical inputs and create measurable economic benefits. It’s rooted in a clear-eyed view of soil health and plant nutrition, using all the agronomic tools he has available. Jerel offers a grounded, practical, and thought-provoking conversation from the perspective of an independent agronomist advising producers in the dry southern San Joaquin Valley. Chapters 00:14 Introduction to Regenerative Agriculture Consulting 02:40 Challenges in Consulting and Adoption of Practices 05:01 Context-Specific Approaches to Regenerative Practices 06:35 The Role of Biologicals and Biostimulants 11:41 Independent Agronomy: A Growing Trend 12:16 Economic Outcomes of Regenerative Practices 12:35 Finding Independent Agronomists 14:49 Economics and Market Dynamics in California 18:25 Water, SOM, SOC 21:09 SGMA and Regulatory Tensions 27:23 The Perception of Regenerative Agriculture in California 31:17 Selling Regenerative Solutions in a Tough Market 34:20 Personal Journey Towards Regenerative Agriculture 40:34 A Call for Collaboration in Agriculture

In this episode, Patrick Smith interviews Matt Nicoletti, Director of Business Development at Penny Newman Grain—a California grain trader founded in 1878 that has grown into a global leader in bulk commodity logistics. We dive into how Penny Newman is both advancing soil health through innovative inputs, and working to transform their legacy business. Their unconventional approach challenges some of the received wisdom in regenerative agriculture: 🚜 𝗜𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗴𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗦𝗼𝗶𝗹 𝗛𝗲𝗮𝗹𝘁𝗵 𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗼 𝗔𝗴𝗿𝗶𝗯𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗲𝘀𝘀: Penny Newman is leveraging their scale to produce and distribute innovative biological inputs, integrating them directly into large farming operations without asking for fundamental operational changes. 🐛 𝗣𝗿𝗶𝗼𝗿𝗶𝘁𝗶𝘇𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗢𝘂𝘁𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗲𝘀 𝗢𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝗣𝗿𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗲𝘀: Instead of focusing on cover crops or no-till methods, Matt's team optimizes soil biology through biological inputs. The result is rapid and dramatic improvements in crop yield and vigor, which really grabs producers' attention. 💰 𝗘𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗼𝗺𝗶𝗰 𝗪𝗶𝗻𝘀 𝗕𝗲𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗠𝗶𝗻𝗱𝘀𝗲𝘁 𝗦𝗵𝗶𝗳𝘁𝘀: Matt's approach focuses on delivering immediate economic results rather than waiting for farmers to adopt new practices or change their mindset. Showcasing the power of soil biology opens the door for producers to explore further. ⚡️𝗔𝘀 𝗼𝗽𝗽𝗼𝘀𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗼 𝗮 "𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗱𝗹𝗲" 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗱𝗹𝗲: Penny Newman trades and transports commodities into California from all over the world. We discuss some of the challenges they're facing as they navigate their customers' Scope 3 emission reduction programs. Notable Quotes (17:16) It's much more difficult to save your way to profitability than it is to grow your way to profitability…one of the mistakes that I made early was trying to get growers to drastically reduce their nitrogen inputs. So let's use the tomato market, for example. If you were to reduce, let's say that tomato grower was using 200 units of nitrogen in the form of UAN 32. That means that they're using roughly 70 gallons of UAN-32 and a gallon of UAN-32 in the current market costs roughly, you know, $2. Okay, so you're spending $140 per acre. So if you reduce your nitrogen inputs by half, you're going to save $70 roughly. Okay, and that's material on a per acre basis, like any grower who you go to and say, hey, I want to take $70 out of your input budget. They're going to like that in concept, right? However, when you look at, you know, where the profitability comes from, going back to yield increases, right? The tomato market is today, $112.50 per ton. Average tomato yield last year was roughly 50 tons per acre. So a, which would mean that a that a five ton yield increase would be a 10 % increase in yield, which is absolutely attainable, right? And at five tons times $112, you're north of $500 in profitability increase, right? So I would rather make $500 than save $70. (09:57) If I can't show up and show results within – call it the first year of working together – Then I don't get invited back. You know, my customers are not people that say, I want to go regenerative. Let's work with Penny Newman. These are people who are just wanting to maximize profitability on-farm and looking for innovative ways to do that. (08:40) It's kind of like a methadone clinic, right? You're weaning growers slowly and steadily off of those things, but doing it in a way that you don't see this big yield decline. Because I think one thing that you obviously think a lot about, is how growers manage that perceived risk, right? And when we talk about soil health and regenerative, we're generally talking about management practices that are oftentimes difficult to implement that growers don't have experience with. And in the regenerative ag circles, you hear people talk about this sort of yield dip that is inevitable when you go quote unquote regenerative. And as much as I love that word and I love the movement, I don't necessarily align ourselves with it as much anymore because if that's what regenerative ultimately means, then I can't necessarily clai

Matt Rohlik is the Managing Director of Sales and Strategic Partnerships at ARVA Intelligence. ARVA plays a key role in the “insetting market” – the market for ecosystem assets *inside* companies’ supply chains. This is a crucial tool for ag-dependent companies to decarbonize their supply chains, which make up a significant amount of their total emissions – in most cases, more than 50%. Matt has a deeply informed insider’s perspective on how the insetting and carbon offsetting market are shaping up in ag, demand dynamics from ecosystem buyers, and the challenges and rewards of facilitating and supporting producers who are creating and selling this new asset class. Matt shares his background in farming, finance, and precision agriculture, and dives into ARVA Intelligence's role in ecosystem asset markets. Matt discusses the complexities of insetting programs, offsets, carbon intensity (CI) scores, and their practical implications for growers, consumer packaged goods (CPGs), and supply chains. Matt explains the growing interest in sustainable practices like cover crops, nutrient management, and soil health improvement, as well as the financial incentives that are now being offered to farmers to adopt these practices. We talk in detail about what payment ranges producers can expect to see from these programs. And we explore the challenges around regional implementation, trusted partnerships, and the future of ecosystem asset quantification, including carbon credits and CI scores. The episode highlights the importance of communication between growers and buyers, the need for regionally appropriate practices, and how ARVA is helping bridge the gap between sustainable agriculture and market demand. Notable Quotes [04:44] - in the last three months, we've seen science-based target initiatives, or what's called SBTI go from around 6,500 to 8,000… about 18 to 20% are ag-specific…. (~05:00) …there's a lot of money that's coming into here that is gonna influence supply chains [06:36] When you bring farming people to the table with our urban cousins, we find out that we're not actually that very far away in our thinking and what we do for the environment. The problem is we just don't talk….So the transparency of food is just an evolution that's coming. And knowing how my food was raised, is it in some type of a protocol or standard that meets what we feel is generally acceptable? And I think it's actually a really good thing from the perspective they get to see a little limelight of what we do on a day-to-day basis. And when they find out that our tractors are more advanced than their Teslas, I think we're going to have a lot more in common than they think. [11:54] $15 to $35 an acre is a potential for farmers in these programs and which in today's world with a depressed economy 12 months ago corn was $2 higher you know so you think about 200 bushels of corn at $2 and that's a lot of money that has gone away where this is definitely helping I'm going to say keep farmers afloat per se but it's definitely helping on the revenue perspective side or the net revenue side [13:39] And we did a test for five years where cover crops and we implemented no-till, and it did not work very well. And we had all the experts there, and we followed it to the T, and frankly, we lost about $400 an acre…that is not sustainable…(14:39) Now if our farm in Arkansas, we use cover crops, the organic matter is increased by almost a half a point over three years, which is phenomenal. [15:29] …the program I might have here doesn't fit the program in Boone, Iowa or Effingham, Illinois or Fort Wayne, Indiana or Columbus, Ohio. We have to be very realistic and I think the end buyers and CPG's are starting to see that this is not just a cookie cutter approach. It definitely has to be agronomically led. [~16:00] And as we go down the path things like biologicals, humics and fulvics, which most people don't even know what they are, in the CPG worl

The official trailer for The Business of Soil Health podcast.