LIQUID – How CTOs Harness Complexity to Unlock Flow

About this episode

The episode discusses how CTOs can harness complexity to unlock flow and adaptability in organizations.

In this conversation, Nishant interviews Kathy Keating, Etienne de Bruin, and Scott Graves , co-authors of LIQUID: How CEOs and CTOs Unlock Flow and Momentum in Complex Systems . They discuss how the idea for the book was born, the challenges of co-authoring as three CTOs, and how they shaped the narrative through the fictional characters Alice (CEO) and Theo (CTO). The authors share how their distinct voices and strengths fused together: Scott’s deep knowledge of complex adaptive systems, Kathy’s operational lens, and Etienne’s ability to simplify and communicate concepts. Together, they created a framework that blends philosophy, practice, and story. The conversation highlights the importance of seeing organizations as complex adaptive systems and the risks of companies becoming either “boiling” (chaotic) or “frozen” (rigid). The authors emphasize that true leadership comes from navigating toward liquidity, the state where flow and adaptability are preserved. They reflect on the critical role of CEO-CTO partnership, the necessity of boundaries, and the difficulty of shifting culture once it stagnates. They also explore why the timing of LIQUID is especially relevant today. As…

People in this episode

Host: Etienne

Guests: Kathy Keating, Etienne de Bruin, Scott Graves

Topics covered

• complex systems
• leadership
• CEO-CTO partnership
• organizational culture

Keywords

• LIQUID
• narrative
• fictional characters
• adaptability
• leadership

Mentioned in this episode

Products: LIQUID, LIQUID: How CEOs and CTOs Unlock Flow and Momentum in Complex Systems

Books & works: LIQUID, LIQUID: How CEOs and CTOs Unlock Flow and Momentum in Complex Systems

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