The DOC Podcast

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Louise Oliver, an NHS general practitioner, functional breathing practitioner, and founder of Breath Doc Programs, who discovered the profound impact of dysfunctional breathing after her own struggles with perimenopausal snoring. We dig into why physicians are rarely taught about airway and breathing dysfunction, the biochemistry of over-breathing and "air hunger," and how retraining your CO2 tolerance can be life-changing. We also explore how daytime breathing habits shape nighttime breathing, why puberty, pregnancy, and menopause reshape airway function, the troubling gaps in sleep apnea research for women, and a nuanced take on mouth taping. It's a wide-ranging conversation that challenges assumptions about one of the most basic things we do every moment of our lives: breathe.TIMESTAMPS- 0:00 – Introduction- 3:47 – Meet Dr. Louise Oliver- 3:49 – Dr. Oliver's journey to functional breathing- 9:59 – What actually counts as evidence-based medicine- 14:04 – Why traditional medicine overlooks breathing dysfunction- 19:28 – The mechanics of over-breathing and air hunger- 25:23 – How to retrain your breathing- 33:28 – How over-breathing affects the whole body- 38:42 – Breathing and the autonomic nervous system- 46:16 – Why daytime breathing habits shape nighttime breathing- 52:51 – Women's health, hormones, and breathing- 53:38 – Breathing through puberty, pregnancy, and menopause- 1:14:50 – The gap in women's sleep medicine research- 1:20:10 – The truth about mouth tape- 1:25:46 – Closing thoughts and where to find Dr. OliverLINKSIG: @drolivertlcWebsite: https://www.drlouiseolivertherapeuticlifecoaching.com/Register for the In-person Early Treatment Comprehensive: https://www.earlyorthotreatment.com/ Join The DOC Community on Facebook for more great content and discussions: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1Cb9rkQVde/Check out the DOC CE Courses: https://theorthocoach.com/ce-courses/Website: theorthocoach.comYouTube: @theorthocoachInstagram: @theorthocoachEmail: [email protected] (00:00) - Introduction (03:47) - Meet Dr. Louise Oliver (03:48) - Dr. Oliver's Journey to Functional Breathing (09:59) - What Counts as Evidence-Based Medicine (14:03) - Why Medicine Overlooks Breathing (19:27) - The Mechanics of Over-Breathing and Air Hunger (25:22) - Retraining Your Breathing (33:28) - How Over-Breathing Affects the Whole Body (38:42) - Breathing and the Autonomic Nervous System (46:15) - Daytime Breathing Habits Shape Nighttime Breathing (52:50) - Women's Health, Hormones, and Breathing (53:38) - Breathing Through Puberty, Pregnancy, and Menopause (01:14:50) - The Gap in Women's Sleep Medicine Research (01:20:11) - The Truth About Mouth Tape (01:25:46) - Closing Thoughts and Where to Find Dr. Oliver

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Funke Afolabi Brown, a triple board-certified sleep physician, founder of Restful Sleep MD, and best-selling author. We go way beyond the basics of sleep, exploring what "good sleep" actually means, why sleep medicine gets so little attention in physician and dental training, and why that has to change.Dr. Brown and I dig into the full spectrum of sleep-disordered breathing (it's so much more than just obstructive sleep apnea), the strengths and serious limitations of polysomnography versus home sleep testing, and why relying only on the AHI can cause us to miss patients who are genuinely struggling. We also spend a lot of time on the far-reaching effects of poor sleep in kids - behavior, learning, emotional regulation, and how sleep issues so often masquerade as ADHD.We talk candidly about why snoring and chronic mouth breathing should never be treated as "no big deal," why interdisciplinary collaboration between sleep physicians, pediatricians, ENTs, dentists, orthodontists, and myofunctional therapists is essential, and why I'm genuinely optimistic about where sleep medicine is headed.TIMESTAMPS0:00 — Cold open: sleep's impact on children isn't benign0:38 — Podcast welcome1:02 — Guest introduction: Dr. Funke Afolabi Brown4:20 — Interview begins5:39 — Dr. Brown's background and path into sleep medicine7:13 — Sleep education gaps in medical/dental training10:19 — Defining good sleep: quantity, quality, timing14:42 — Wearables, sleep tracking, and orthosomnia20:24 — Acute vs. chronic sleep problems and recovery26:52 — In-lab polysomnography: strengths and limitations37:28 — The sleep-disordered breathing spectrum41:10 — Primary snoring: why it's never normal46:14 — Allergies, nasal airway, and root causes48:12 — Chronic mouth breathing debate54:23 — Why physicians and dentists avoid the topic1:00:10 — ADHD and sleep-disordered breathing overlap1:08:57 — Home sleep testing and treatment options1:09:48 — The future of sleep medicine1:16:00 — Closing thoughts and where to find Dr. BrownIf you found this conversation valuable, please share this episode with someone who needs to hear it, follow DOC Podcast on Instagram, and subscribe to the channel on YouTube so you never miss an episode.LINKSConnect w/Dr. Brown:Website: https://www.restfulsleepmd.com/ Beyond Tired Book: https://a.co/d/2aSRSQt Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/restfulsleepmd/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drfunkebrown/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/funke.afolabibrown/ Register for the In-person Early Treatment Comprehensive: https://www.earlyorthotreatment.com/ The Generational Wealth Code: https://a.co/d/05TlkLJXJoin The DOC Community on Facebook for more great content and discussions: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1Cb9rkQVde/Check out the DOC CE Courses: https://theorthocoach.com/ce-courses/Website: theorthocoach.comYouTube: @theorthocoachInstagram: @theorthocoachEmail: [email protected]

OverviewIn this episode, I sit down with Dr. Peter Catalano - an otolaryngologist, rhinology fellowship director, and pioneer of minimally invasive nasal surgery. Dr. Catalano has held appointments at Mount Sinai School of Medicine, the Lahey Clinic, and Tufts University, and has spent over three decades developing and publishing on targeted nasal airway surgery. I've had the privilege of working with Dr. Catalano on a major article addressing mouth breathing, and our conversation here is one of the most important I've had on this platform.We go deep into the science of nasal airflow, the structural and institutional barriers preventing children from getting the care they need, and the very real consequences (neurological, behavioral, cardiovascular, and craniofacial) of untreated mouth breathing and sleep-disordered breathing. We also address the myths and dogmas that continue to persist in both the ENT and orthodontic worlds, and what it's going to take to break them down.If you've ever wondered why the two worlds of dentistry and medicine remain so siloed on this issue, or what it means for patients when they fall through the crack, this episode is for you.Timestamps0:00 – Introduction and Dr. Catalano's background: ENT, skull base surgery, academic appointments at Mount Sinai, Lahey Clinic, and Tufts University4:10 – How Dr. Catalano's career trajectory led him from engineering to medicine to rhinology — and the philosophy of fate and the "hidden angel" guiding his path9:12 – The MicroShaver revolution: meeting Dr. Setliff in South Dakota and the aha moment that changed everything about minimally invasive sinus surgery11:13 – The unexpected discovery: patients reporting they stopped snoring after sinus surgery, and how that led to a focus on nasal airway and sleep-disordered breathing13:18 – [Ad] Early Orthodontic Treatment Comprehensive — a two-day hands-on immersive course with Dr. Daniel Camacho, Fort Lauderdale, FL, November 13–14. Click the link in the show notes to register.14:27 – The 2009 Singapore breakthrough: Dr. Deyun Wang and computational flow dynamics — why no one actually knew how air moved through the nose until then19:32 – Why previous nasal surgeries failed for OSA, and what "follow the airflow" means for surgical targets between the eyes20:30 – Why making big holes in sinuses made things worse — and why the sinuses don't actually ventilate during breathing23:58 – How the superior airway and structures like the uncinate process and concha bullosa became key surgical targets, producing a 15–20% improvement in airflow26:08 – The insurance dilemma and medical-legal risks that prevent ENTs from performing airway surgery — even when the data is clear30:03 – The ferret studies and the "never operate under 16" dogma: how flawed 1980s animal models became entrenched standard of care for pediatric ENT surgery35:48 – Parallels to hormone replacement therapy and the rampant hypocrisy in academic medicine — how good studies get buried and bad ones persist40:55 – How Dr. Catalano fought back against an insurance company, changed their pediatric sinus surgery policy, and survived multiple attempts to have his medical license revoked47:12 – The Harvold monkey studies: why the obligate nasal breather argument is wrong, why the studies are foundational, and what it means that no one could repeat them today58:07 – Children don't just "outgrow" airway obstruction: why the lymphoid involution argument is true but dangerously misleading when 90% of craniofacial growth is complete by age 81:13:57 – CBCT in ENT and orthodontic practice: why orthodontists need to learn to read the full image, how Dr. Catalano and Dr. John Walker found hidden tumors, and why rhinology-focused ENTs already use equivalent imaging1:17:33 – Nocturnal enuresis and airway: the pituitary/ADH connection, why these children ask about bedwetting the moment they wake from surgery, and the anecdotal but compelling clinical evidence1:27:15 – Swell body reduction: how a novel procedure Dr. Catalano pioneered in 2015 went from being met with rotten tomatoes at conferences to becoming standard of careClosingIf this conversation resonated with you, I want to encourage you to share it with your colleagues, your dental and medical partners, and anyone who works with young patients who struggle to breathe. This is exactly the kind of interdisciplinary dialogue that can change outcomes for kids who are being told to wait it out.LINKSDr. Peter Catalano: Email: [email protected] Article on Mouth Breathing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40057896/Join The DOC Community on Facebook for more great content and discussions (https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1Cb9rkQVde/)Register for the In-person Early Treatment Comprehensive: https://www.earlyorthotreatment.com/ Join The DOC Community on Facebook for more great content and discussions: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1Cb9rkQVde/Check out the DOC CE Courses: https://theorthocoach.com/ce-courses/Website: theorthocoach.comYouTube: @theorthocoachEmail: [email protected]: @theorthocoach

In this episode, I'm joined for the second time by Dr. Shereen Lim, an internationally recognized dentist whose work is reshaping how we think about oral tethered tissues and their role in craniofacial growth, airway health, and orthodontic outcomes. Since her first appearance on the show (Episode 34 - link below), Dr. Lim has pushed even further beyond tongue ties, focusing her clinical lens on lip ties, buccal frenum ties, and their profound influence on facial development, maxillary arch constriction, dental crowding, and orthodontic relapse. This conversation is a masterclass in staying intellectually curious, remaining open to what the evidence in your own practice is telling you, and constantly reassessing your diagnosis and treatment approach as new information emerges.Timestamps0:00 – Introduction & episode overview3:12 – Welcome back: Dr. Lim returns to The DOC Podcast4:43 – Beyond tongue ties: Dr. Lim's evolving focus on lip and cheek (buccal) ties and their impact on latch, facial tension, and development8:46 – The lower lip tie discovery: how chin strain and mentalis tension led to a clinical breakthrough9:55 – Buccal ties, orthodontic relapse, and how cheek tension shapes the dental arch14:45 – Interdisciplinary collaboration: working with osteopaths, chiropractors, and lactation consultants15:59 – The emotional weight of realizing what we've missed — and why blinders happen19:01 – Case study: the patient with severe malocclusion and the tightest cheek ties Dr. Lim has ever seen22:03 – My talk on why orthodontists resist airway-focused care — and granting colleagues grace25:44 – Tongue ties without transverse deficiency: how cheek ties may explain the variation27:36 – V-shaped arches, orthodontic relapse, and the role of perioral restrictions29:39 – Historical perspective: the Frenkel appliance, lip bumpers, and treating the etiology33:03 – How to assess what's normal vs. abnormal: signs to look for across infancy, childhood, and adulthood36:41 – The procedure: CO2 laser technique, team-based approach, and what to expect after releases39:10 – When outcomes fall short — and why proper pre/post care changes everything41:34 – A remarkable case: releasing ties in an infant with Down syndrome against specialist advice44:19 – Challenging the 2020 AAO-HNS consensus statement and the misuse of evidence-based medicine46:53 – The real value of clinical observation and patient-reported outcomes50:19 – Pushback on social media vs. trust within the clinical community52:10 – Functional trainer appliances (Myobrace, Vivos, 2Pill): where they help and where they fall short56:18 – Post-release comfort: why oral releases may make functional appliances easier to tolerate57:54 – The journey approach: doing one thing at a time and building confidence incrementally1:00:46 – Vestibuloplasty technique: releasing multiple sites together for better outcomes1:03:46 – A message to overwhelmed clinicians: you don't have to do it all at once1:06:32 – Evidence-based practice in action: what Dr. Lim is actually doing in her clinic1:07:09 – Where to find Dr. Lim & closing thoughtsThis conversation reminded me of why I do this work. Dr. Lim's willingness to look critically at her own outcomes, stay open to what her patients are showing her, and continuously evolve her clinical approach is a model for all of us. Whether you're brand new to airway-focused dentistry or have been in this space for years, I hope this episode leaves you a little more curious, a little more humble, and motivated to ask whether there's a better way to serve the children and families we care for.LINKSEpisode 34 w/Dr. Lim: LINKDr Lim’s Book: Breathe, Sleep, ThriveDr. Lim’s Website: https://www.drshereenlim.com.au/Dr. Lim’s IG: @dr.shereenlimDr. Lim on FB: LINKRegister for the In-person Early Treatment Comprehensive: https://www.earlyorthotreatment.com/ Join The DOC Community on Facebook for more great content and discussions: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1Cb9rkQVde/Check out the DOC CE Courses: https://theorthocoach.com/ce-courses/Website: theorthocoach.comYouTube: @theorthocoachInstagram: @theorthocoachEmail: [email protected]