The Double Win

Brad Stulberg is a researcher, writer, and coach focused on performance and sustainable excellence. In this conversation, he makes the case that excellence isn't primarily a performance strategy, but a virtue. He underscores that we’re wired to pursue our values and that the work we shape also shapes us in return. In a world obsessed with optimization, speed, and delegation, he advocates for craftsmanship, end-to-end ownership, and practicing the vulnerability required to stay close to our work and give it our all.Memorable Quotes“I think at the zenith, at the peak of excellence, we get those kinds of moments where our thinking mind is no longer on and we are just going completely by feel—moving forward, taking the next best step.”“We are very much a striving species. So over the last decade, what's become a central question of mine is: How do we reconcile this need for groundedness and this foundation of presence with our hardwiring, which is striving?”“No robot can give me the feeling of what it's like to get a heavy weight to move off the ground. No robot can give me the feeling of working really, really hard, grinding away at a paragraph, and then finally getting the right turn of phrase… In an increasingly digital age, I think we've got to protect things that help us feel alive and connected.”“I define ‘zombie burnout’ not as a result of doing too much, but actually as a result of not doing enough of things that light you up and make you feel alive.”“Far too often in rote achievement culture, we only think about ourselves working toward a goal. And what we don't realize is that our goal is shaping our character… Every action we take, we are shaping our character… We're stamping upon ourselves the person that we wanna be.”“The people that we admire most are all try-hards because you cannot be your best at anything without making yourself vulnerable, risking failure, and trying hard… The things that you care about are going to break your heart because they're not always gonna go your way. But I argue that the benefits of all the richness and texture and satisfaction you get from giving things your all is big enough to hold the heartbreak.”“You want to make sure that you are keeping the main thing the main thing, and you are doing the main thing. I think that it just comes down to asking yourself, ‘What is your craft?’ And by definition, your craft should be something that you are skilled in and that you see end-to-end.”Key TakeawaysExcellence is a Virtue. Every pursuit shapes the person doing it. The marathon isn't just a goal you're working toward; the marathon is working on you. Giving something your all is for the sake of performance and character.Burnout Isn’t Just an Hours Problem. Burnout can be a quantity problem of working too many hours. But “zombie burnout” is a quality problem arising from doing too little of what actually lights you up. We need work that aligns with our sense of autonomy, meaning, and competence.Excellence Requires Four Stages. Research suggests that arriving at excellence requires four stages: Unconscious incompetence → conscious incompetence → conscious competence → unconscious competence. We can’t shortcut effortful trying, doubt, and setbacks.Excellence Requires Intimacy. Masters must be up close and personal with their work, refusing to engage in distractions or shortchange their effort. Exercising excellence means risking vulnerability, failure, and even heartbreak—believing the satisfaction is worth it.Don’t Delegate Your Craft. Work deeply tied to your identity (as a leader, creator, or parent) is yours to own end-to-end. Handing it off to another person or to AI undercuts your ability to shape the work and its ability to shape you. Figure out what’s uniquely yours and don’t let go.ResourcesThe Way of Excellence by Brad StulbergMaster of Change by Brad StulbergThe Practice of Groundedness by Brad StulbergPeak Performance by Brad Stulberg and Steve Magnessbradstulberg.comThe Growth Equation PodcastWatch on YouTube at: https://youtu.be/cHsPrWehFeAThis episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

Why do so many high achievers secretly struggle with anxiety, burnout, and overwhelm? Dr. Elizabeth Stanley, Army veteran, Georgetown professor, and author of Widen the Window, joins Michael Hyatt to explain the hidden science behind stress and resilience. Drawing on her personal story of trauma, her background in the military, and her training in somatic therapy, Elizabeth reveals why talk therapy alone often falls short—and how body-based practices can change everything. This conversation is honest, practical, and deeply hopeful for anyone who feels stuck in patterns of stress.Memorable Quotes“We're all in it together and we're all experiencing the particular lawful ways that this human mind and body works in this particular poly-crisis world. Of course, people are struggling. It's kind of why it's my passion to help people understand ‘You're not alone in this.’”“We are wired organically to be able to mobilize the energy to manage a crisis or a stressful situation, and then recover. Our ancestors that shared the same wiring that we have did not have 24/7 constant activation and constant demands the way that we do in modern life today.”“The science term there is allostatic load, and the more our stress load grows, the less capacity we have in our mind and body to meet the next challenge, so that it becomes a bit of a vicious cycle, and we know that we're on the edge of our window or outside of our window of tolerance.”“We are built so that we learn the downregulation through the soothing we receive from our parents and other early caregivers. And that presumes that our early caregivers and parents were regulated enough to do that for us.”“If we're redirecting it somewhere that the survival brain perceives as safe, that actually starts conditioning. A process that makes the system move back in the way that we're organically built, which is to go through stress and recover naturally.”“When we don't perceive agency, when we feel powerless or helpless, that actually leads to higher levels of arousal and it really resolidifies the prior conditioning. So being able to access that choice point is really critical in beginning to shift it.”“If our parents had narrowed windows, if they were coping with a lot of stress and trauma, or if they were absent, if they had mental illness or they were incarcerated, they aren't able to help us wire those things. It's one of the ways that narrowed windows get transmitted intergenerationally and why trauma can become intergenerational.”Key TakeawaysYou’re Not Broken. Chronic anxiety and overwhelm are signs of dysregulation, not defects. They’re the evidence of what you’ve walked through—but don’t determine what’s ahead.Your Body Knows the Way. Healing starts by listening to the signals of your nervous system. The key is not to minimize our reactions, but to listen and practice strategies that help us return to baseline.Talk Therapy Isn’t Enough. True healing requires engaging the body and nervous system. Trauma-informed, body-based therapy can lead to breakthroughs when just thinking and talking isn’t enough.Agency Is Key. Learning to notice choice points rewires the brain toward safety. The quickest way out of powerlessness is regaining a sense of agency.Resilience Can Be Trained. Simple, repeated practices expand your “window of tolerance.” It takes time and intention, but you can widen your window.ResourcesWiden the Window by Elizabeth StanleyElizabeth Stanley’s Mindfulness-Based Mind Fitness Training (MMFT)Watch on Youtube at: https://youtu.be/Z607BPgbxi4This episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

What if the key to thriving isn’t managing your circumstances perfectly—but rooting yourself in the connections that matter most? In this heartfelt conversation, Michael and Megan talk with Elizabeth Oldfield, author of Fully Alive, about reclaiming depth, community, and soul-level steadiness in a culture addicted to speed and distraction. Elizabeth draws on ancient wisdom, modern insight, and her own experience living in intentional community to offer a hopeful path forward.Memorable Quotes“You need to put your roots down deep into love and work out how to find some steadiness.”“When we are honest about our full humanity, we give other people permission to do that, and that's a necessary starting point for actually growing up our souls rather than pretending that we all know what we’re doing and we’re holding it all together.”“Where we put our attention is essentially who we become.”“I have this sense that fully aliveness is in connection, deep connection, horizontally and vertically.”“Hurrying and destruction are not how we flourish, and we’re constantly being encouraged to do those things. So we need to provide some counter pressure towards slowness and steadiness and presence.”Key TakeawaysConnection Is the Core of Flourishing. Relationships—messy, costly, inconvenient—are where we become more fully human.Attention Shapes Who You Become. Distraction isn’t just a nuisance; it’s a soul-shaping force. Guard your focus.Structure Time Around Your Values. A “rule of life” puts what matters most in place first, so the rest fits around it.Commitment Fuels Depth. Vulnerability without commitment fizzles; together they form lasting community.Ancient Practices Still Work. Sabbath, liturgy, and shared rhythms anchor us in what endures.ResourcesFully Alive by Elizabeth OldfieldThe Sacred podcast by Elizabeth OldfieldWatch on YouTube at: https://youtu.be/-anckhHSdHMThis episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

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What do you do when business feels hard—and you assume it’s your fault? In this raw and rich conversation, Michael and Megan sit down with Dave Ramsey to talk about what really goes into building a business that lasts. Drawing from his 30+ year journey with Ramsey Solutions, Dave shares stories of failure, clarity, succession, and the slow handoff of legacy—along with what most founders get wrong about growth. If you’ve ever felt behind, discouraged, or unsure how to lead your business into the future, this episode will show you the next light on the path.Memorable Quotes“The dirty little secret is: Everyone’s money is messed up.”“As long as I can clearly see the next step, it gives me tremendous energy and focus and hope.”“We’ve learned with all the bruises to look for the next thing but not to sell out to it.”“You gotta change the word. The word is: I experimented. I didn’t fail.”“You give other people the credit when things are right and take the hit when things are wrong. Because it is your job as the leader.”“People are our greatest blessing and they also give us the most trouble.”“I have to constantly stop and say: Let them do it. You did hand it off. Don’t take it back. They’re doing okay.”Key TakeawaysBusiness Is Hard. If you’re a small business owner struggling to make it all work, you’re in really good company. The struggle is normal, and you’re not alone.Cut Through the Fog. You don’t need to know the whole path. You just need enough clarity to light your next steps.Good News: You’re the Problem. If your business is stuck, look in the mirror. That’s not shame—it’s a solvable problem.Succession Starts Now. Planning for legacy doesn’t mean you’re quitting. It means you’re a good steward. Whether you have five team members or 500, the time to start is now.ResourcesBuild a Business You Love by Dave RamseyThe Ramsey ShowRamsey Solutions EntreLeadershipWatch on YouTube at: https://youtu.be/oOoV5G1Zi8EThis episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

What if your health breakthrough doesn’t start in the gym or the kitchen—but in your mind?In this powerful conversation, Michael and Megan sit down with Dr. Josh Axe to explore why so many people feel stuck in cycles of stress, illness, or plateau—and how to shift toward real, lasting wellness. Drawing from his background in functional medicine and personal experience with a life-altering spinal infection, Dr. Axe shares the most overlooked key to healing and how you can start applying it today.Memorable Quotes“The number one determining factor of longevity for you is having strong relationships.”“If you wake up first thing in the morning and get outside, it’s one of the single greatest things you can do for longevity and your microbiome.”“This is all about training your nervous system and encouraging your body that ‘This is going to happen.’”“There’s a lot of people that win at all costs, but they never end up winning. We hear all the stories. They’re never truly winning.”Key TakeawaysThe Biology of Belief. What you believe about your body impacts everything from gut function to recovery speed. Healing starts with mindset.The Root of the Issue. Many chronic health challenges are driven by unresolved trauma—and show up in unexpected places like digestion and fatigue.The Power of Visualization. Mentally rehearsing health and healing isn’t “woo-woo”—it’s neuroscience.Top Four Longevity Habits. Hear from an expert what four rituals can add years to your life.ResourcesThink This, Not That by Dr. Josh AxeDrAxe.comAncient NutritionYou Are the Placebo by Dr. Joe DispenzaWatch on Youtube at: https://youtu.be/2-dvOt-zcdMThis episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound

Entrepreneurship promises freedom—but it also comes with a unique set of challenges that many don’t talk about. In this episode, The Double Win Show welcomes Bryan and Shannon Miles, co-founders of Belay and the nonprofit O’nr, to pull back the curtain on what it really takes to build a thriving business without losing yourself in the process.From hiring their first virtual assistant in 2011 (who later became CEO!) to navigating the emotional weight of selling a business, Bryan and Shannon share their hard-won lessons on leadership, transitions, and making decisions that align with your values.Memorable Quotes“Here’s the magic phrase: ‘In order to be faithful to my existing commitments, I have to say no.’”“I am responsible for myself and my leadership. And I know that if I extend myself too far, I’m not the best version of who I want to be.”“If I’m saying yes to everything and I’m overcommitting and my schedule is absolutely full, there’s no space for creativity. There’s no space for dreaming. There’s no space for new ideas or realizations.”“A lot of business owners are lonely, actually isolated.”“As leaders, part of our job is just kind of to help people settle and know they’re safe.”“Stewardship is just simply managing something for a season of time… While we’re there with our employees and leaders, we’re stewarding our relationships with them.”Key TakeawaysThe Loneliness of Leadership. If you’re feeling isolated as a business owner, there’s good news: You’re not the only one.The Skill of Saying No. Implement this mental shift to help you stop overcommitting without the guilt.Getting Buy-In For Change. What leaders get wrong when making major business changes—and what to do to help your team ride the wave.Living Your Priorities Today. Why Bryan and Shannon took a vacation nine months after starting a business—and the opportunity that followed.The Operator/Owner Difference. Are you owning a business or trapped in it?ResourcesBelay SolutionsO’nrNoFo BrewWatch on YouTube at: https://youtu.be/pGdaYmIJPHkThis episode was produced by Sarah Vorhees Wendel of VW Sound