The Eric Ries Show

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Sid Sijbrandij, co-founder and Executive Chair of GitLab—one of the world’s most radically transparent and values-driven software companies.Sid shares how GitLab evolved from an open-source side project into a publicly traded DevOps platform, all while remaining deeply aligned with its values. From turning down a $10 million offer to maintaining control through dual-class shares, Sid walks us through the principles and systems that have shaped GitLab from the start.We also delve into GitLab’s renowned, live, and public 2,000-page handbook—how it functions not only as documentation but also as a recruiting tool, cultural backbone, and governance mechanism.In our conversation today, we talk about the following topics:• Why Sid once cold-pitched a submarine inventor—and got hired• What led GitLab to turn down a $10M buyout and pursue an IPO• Why GitLab favors “boring solutions” by default—and avoids reinventing the wheel• The role of GitLab’s live, public handbook in building transparency and trust• Why every change at GitLab must be made in the handbook first• How the handbook supports hiring, alignment, and radical transparency• GitLab’s approach to decentralized decision-making• Why “customer results” sits at the top of GitLab’s values hierarchy• Sid’s case for open core as the future of software•How GitLab encourages informal connection in a remote-first culture—and the role of in-person meetups• And much more—Brought to you by:• Ahrefs – Get instant website traffic insights, without the noise. ⁠⁠Learn more⁠⁠. —Where to find Sid Sijbrandij:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijbrandij/• X: https://x.com/sytses—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(02:52) The origins of GitLab(04:15) The MVP of GitLab and how it has evolved to a DevOps platform (05:09) Sid’s internships and why he chose to work with submarines after(08:57) How Sid became a submarine engineer (11:10) How Ruby sparked Sid’s interest in programming (12:28) Why GitLab said no to $10M and chose YC and decided to go IPO(17:45) How GitLab kept control including granting 10x voting shares before going public(22:25) GitLab’s extreme commitment to their values (28:29) GitLab’s Handbook and how changes are made (33:11) How GitLab handles pushback and how the handbook builds trust (37:38) An explanation of buyer-based open core at GitLab (38:35) The challenges implementing a lean startup approach (45:26) Keeping the organization aligned: How GitLab reinforces their values (53:51) Why GitLab updates values (55:57) Why senior engineers have an easier time securing budget(57:21) Putting customers first: GitLab’s value hierarchy explained(59:08) The case for decentralized decision-making—and how GitLab makes it work(1:03:24) The handbook’s role in recruiting and building alignment(1:06:25) Maintaining transparency after IPO(1:10:55) The three phases of GitLab’s all-remote operating policy (1:17:04) How GitLab developed its open core business model (1:20:19) The trust-building power of open source and Sid’s case for open core(1:25:20) Protective governance measures GitLab helps companies take (1:29:28) How Sid has been doing on his cancer journey, and his work to help others —You can find episode references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by ⁠⁠Pen Name⁠⁠.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Bob Sutton, organizational psychologist and New York Times bestselling author of several influential books on leadership, behavior, and workplace culture, including his latest: The Friction Project.We explore insights from across his body of work, including real-world examples of large organizations that have figured out how to operate more effectively and ethically—despite the inherent messiness of human systems.We discuss:• Ideas from The Knowing-Doing Gap, including the importance of psychological safety and a breakdown of “the smart talk trap”• Why even the best-run companies are still flawed• The surprising number of companies owned by private foundations, including Hershey Chocolate and Ikea• How well-run organizations resist management fads while staying open to real innovation• A story from Tim Cook about critical thinking in HR—and the cost of over-hiring• “Addition sickness”: what happens when too many people work on a problem• Strategies for removing friction• The “No Asshole Rule”: why toxic leaders damage performance and morale• The best founders strike the right balance between confidence and humility • And much more!—Brought to you by:• Ahrefs – Get instant website traffic insights, without the noise. Learn more. —Where to find Bob Sutton: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobsutton1/• Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/bobsutton.net• Website: https://bobsutton.net/—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(01:45) Insights from The Knowing Doing Gap(09:29) How Becky Margiotta rewarded the doers of her 100,000 homes project (12:24) An explanation of why every organization is flawed (21:32) A case for still trying to improve the way companies are run (26:03) How larger organizations always do things worse—some worse than others(27:58) A case of organizational improvement: The California Department of Motor Vehicles (29:58) Companies owned by private foundations and other unique models(33:52) Lessons from Tim Cook around thinking critically about hiring(36:26) Addition sickness(39:58) Strategies for removing friction and adding good friction (46:42) Simple practices that work(49:50) The ‘no asshole’ rule(52:32) The pitfalls of holacracy and an explanation of ‘stagegate’(57:18) Why founders sometimes need to step back after scaling(1:01:09) Advice for founders who want to stay CEOs and operate in founder mode(1:04:40) The importance of ‘torchbearers’ and resisting pressures for short-term gains(1:08:30) A case for doing things the right way, even if you don’t have to (1:11:05) How corruption eventually degrades an organization (1:18:03) Lightning round—You can find episode references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by Pen Name.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Maria Colacurcio, Co-Founder and CEO of Syndio, a workplace equity analytics platform. Syndio helps companies close pay gaps and build high-trust organizations. Maria has had a long career in leadership, previously co-founding Smartsheet and serving as a senior leader at Starbucks, where she focused on global communications and social impact.In our conversation, we discuss how to scale with integrity, navigate the complexities of equity, and lead with both data and principle. We cover: • The surprising insight that 1 in 5 pay remediations at Syndio benefit white men• The distinction between expanding opportunity and enforcing quotas• Why taking bias out of promotions makes companies stronger• The role curiosity and passion played in opening doors for Maria• Why “the reservoir of trust” is both the right thing to do and a smart business strategy• Syndio’s commitment to transparency through annual pay gap and equity disclosures• Why strategy and culture need to change as you scale• And much more!—Brought to you by:• Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Save $1,000 today⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.• Wilson Sonsini – Wilson Sonsini is the innovation economy’s law firm. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Learn more⁠⁠⁠⁠.• Gusto – Gusto is an easy payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get 3 months free⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.—Where to find Maria Colacurcio: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mcolacurcio/• X: https://x.com/mcolacurcio—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(02:19) The executive order against DEI: what's changed, what hasn’t, what remains uncertain(07:20) The benefits and limitations of DEI programs(08:37) What is opportunity equity (10:20) How biases in performance reviews advance incompetent people(11:22) Syndio’s comp consistency analytics solution for pay consistency and pay equity (13:18) The importance of pay being tied to the company’s stated values(18:47) Why some CEOs are eager to abandon DEI (21:46) How to tell if a company is serious about fair treatment(25:00) Maria’s path to becoming the CEO of Syndio(32:09) Tech for solving a problem vs. for the sake of tech(35:12) Maria’s experience becoming a founder at Smartsheet and Syndio(38:22) The reservoir of trust and other learnings from Maria’s time at Starbucks(40:10) How Maria’s curiosity led to meeting Zev and founding Syndio (49:25) Syndio’s pivot and why Maria hired a lawyer to lead sales(52:15) An explanation of how Syndio’s software works (54:46) Syndio’s AI chatbot, Syndi(55:22) The current state of Syndio (57:02) How Syndio maintains alignment with its core values(1:02:14) Lightning round—You can find the transcript and references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I'm joined by Jess Mah, an extraordinary entrepreneur who launched her first six-figure business in middle school and went on to co-found more than 10 companies collectively valued at over $1 billion.Jess rose to public acclaim and earned a spot on Forbes' 30 Under 30 while privately facing the reality that her startup, inDinero, was far from profitable. That moment of failure became her turning point. Without VC funding, Jess had to rethink everything: her approach to building companies, her work methods, and her true priorities. What emerged was a more sustainable approach to entrepreneurship that prioritizes long-term thinking, authenticity, and mental health.In our conversation, we explore:• The hidden upside of failure and how it transformed Jess's career• Why inDinero's failure to attract VC money was ultimately a blessing in disguise• How AI is lowering barriers to starting a business with less capital and fewer workers• Why authenticity beats performative positivity• How Jess manages her mental health and her iterative learning approach inspired by 'kodawari'• The “independent director problem” and how investor-beholden directors can undermine long-term strategy • Why funding private companies is a frequently overlooked way to create global impact• Jess’s 90-day trial method for evaluating executive talent • Jess’s work supporting other female founders• And much more!—Brought to you by:• Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. ⁠⁠⁠Save $1,000 today⁠⁠⁠.• Explo – Explo helps teams deploy customer dashboard portals. ⁠⁠Get Started⁠⁠.—Where to find Jess Mah:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicamah/• X: https://x.com/jessicamah• Website: https://jessicamah.com/—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(02:30) Why happiness eludes so many high achievers(10:15) Why Jess considers herself lucky that inDinero was not a rapid growth company(14:20) How Jess discovered that habits like meditation and exercise drive success(17:10) Silicon Valley Bank: why short-term thinking and exploitation are bad business strategies(24:00) Why it’s so hard to break out of the default culture of rapid growth (28:30) Why Jess walked away from the Silicon Valley playbook(33:11) Where Jess’s strength comes from (40:25) Why true accountability doesn’t require a combative board(44:43) What good governance looks like—and why it’s different for every company(50:10) Jess’s long-term approach to goal planning, both in life and work (51:34) Jess’s barbell approach: balancing cool businesses with world-changing tech(58:15) Jess’s approach to hiring and spotting well-matched talent(1:04:20) Strategies Jess uses to manage her emotions and learn from failure(1:10:54) Lightning round —You can find the transcript and references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I'm joined by Celine Halioua, founder and CEO of Loyal, a groundbreaking biotech startup developing drugs to extend dogs' healthspan and lifespan. Celine's journey combines her passion for animals with a bold scientific mission that looks beyond pets to potentially transform human longevity as well.Our conversation explores:• Why ambitious, moonshot visions can paradoxically make fundraising and team-building easier• The critical early pivot that positioned Loyal for its first drug approval• The undervalued power of listening deeply and asking the right questions• Loyal's philosophy of exceeding regulatory requirements to build trust and advance the field• Balancing the startup need for speed with scientific rigor and safety• How Celine's background led her to focus on the untapped potential of canine longevity• The competitive advantage of pursuing novel ideas before they become industry trends• Why founder conviction and scientific expertise were crucial to overcoming skepticism• Celine's approach to governance and maintaining mission control for the long-term• Navigating the challenges of Silicon Valley as a female founder in biotech• The realistic timeline and milestones for Loyal's drug development and approvals• Building for truly long-term impact beyond conventional startup timelines• And much more! —Brought to you by:• Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. ⁠⁠Save $1,000 today⁠⁠.• Explo – Explo helps teams deploy customer dashboard portals. ⁠Get Started⁠.—Where to find Celine Halioua: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/celinehh/• X: https://x.com/celinehalioua• Website: https://www.celinehh.com/—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(03:29) Early challenges Celine faced promoting Loyal(08:20) The early pivot that led to Loyal’s first drug approval(14:50) The importance of listening and asking questions(15:58) Why you have to love the mission (18:02) Why a lofty mission makes it easier to gain support(22:30) Loyal’s commitment to regulatory frameworks—and doing more than required(29:10) How to balance speed with safety and quality (34:36) Eric’s startup lesson on speed and compromises (38:22) How Celine became interested in the biotech space and canine longevity (47:32) The power of new ideas, and why it’s too late once it’s a trend(50:28) How Celine’s conviction and scientific expertise drove Loyal’s success(56:00) Celine’s advice to new founders: go deep(1:00:15) How and why Celine maintains control of Loyal(1:07:23) Breaking through the glass ceiling of Silicon Valley (1:15:50) Challenges of building a long-term company, and Loyal’s real milestones(1:21:11) The timeline of Loyal’s drug approvals (1:24:02) Lightning round—You can find the transcript and references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Alyssa Ravasio, CEO and Founder of Hipcamp. Hipcamp is the platform that has revolutionized camping, with a mission to “get more people outside.” By making it easier for people to find camping on public lands—and then expanding to include private lands—Hipcamp significantly increased the supply of camping spots, making the outdoors more accessible to all.In our conversation, Alyssa shares how her childhood fostered a deep love of nature, and how missed opportunities ultimately led her to become a founder. We dive into Hipcamp’s mission and discuss how staying true to it has been key to the company’s success. We talk about the following: • How a rejection led Alyssa to create her own major, Digital Democracy• The early experiences that shaped Alyssa’s respect for nature• The problem Alyssa set out to solve when she started California Camping (now Hipcamp)• Why Alyssa took a coding bootcamp and the early days of bootstrapping Hipcamp• How Hipcamp expanded the supply of camping by opening up private lands• Hipcamp’s many value-enforcing practices, including tying performance reviews to values• The power of direct feedback, and why Hipcamp seeks diverse perspectives • The practice of treating the business as an ecosystem • And much more!—Brought to you by:• Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. ⁠Save $1,000 today⁠.• Wilson Sonsini – Wilson Sonsini is the innovation economy’s law firm. Learn more.—Where to find Alyssa Ravasio:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssa-ravasio-23114717/• X: https://x.com/alyraz—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(02:28) Alyssa’s entrepreneurship journey(03:40) Alyssa’s outdoorsy upbringing that fueled her desire to democratize outdoor access(06:30) How film school rejection led Alyssa to design her own major at UCLA(10:20) Alyssa’s philosophy of using technology for good(13:40) Learnings from Alyssa’s first two startups(16:05) How Alyssa prioritizes Hipcamp’s mission with her employees(19:20) Hipcamp’s hiring process (20:24) How California Camping became Hipcamp(21:47) The initial idea behind California Camping(24:52) How Alyssa dealt with naysayers in the early days of building Hipcamp(28:00) How solving a customer’s problem on Twitter drew Alyssa’s first investor(31:22) The early days of bootstrapping Hipcamp(36:40) The power of a shared vision (38:07) Overcoming scarcity in outdoor spaces by adding private lands(42:15) Why the business model of Hipcamp is a win-win for all (47:10) Systems and cultural practices that keep Hipcamp aligned with its mission and values(54:15) A case for bringing teams together in nature (56:50) The current state of Hipcamp(59:42) How Hipcamp might scale impact with a fund in the future (1:03:15) The practice of treating the business like an ecosystem (1:10:14) Why a positive-impact business is also good business (1:12:41) Alyssa’s thoughts on AI, and how Hipcamp plans on utilizing it(1:17:03) Lightning round—You can find the transcript and references at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

In today’s episode ofThe Eric Ries Show, I am joined by Luis von Ahn, CEO and co-founder of Duolingo. With Duolingo, his mission was simple: make language learning accessible to everyone—not to build a for-profit company. Fast forward to today, and Duolingo has grown into a $17 billion business with a reported 90% of the online daily active users in the language learning market. In our conversation today, we discuss the following topics: • How hiring an intern led to Duolingo’s viral mascot • Duolingo’s revenue strategy that helped their stock be up over 100% in the past year• How only 10% of users pay but make about 30% of the revenue in the education app category• The newly published Duolingo Handbook and its critical role within the company• How turning learning into a game changed everything • Why Duolingo spent the first five years focusing on improving retention • Duolingo’s unique approach to experimentation and how to apply it • Why Duolingo isn’t focused on market investors but on building a 100-year company • And much more!—Brought to you by:• Wilson Sonsini – Wilson Sonsini is the innovation economy’s law firm.Learn more.—Where to find Luis von Ahn:• LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/luis-von-ahn-duolingo/• X:https://x.com/luisvonahn—Where to find Eric:• Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ —In This Episode We Cover:(00:00) Intro(03:10) How Duolingo’s passive-aggressive mascot, Duo, became an internet sensation(09:21) Why Luis took a chance on the Duo campaign—despite his doubts(11:30) Take the long view: Duolingo’s principle to build a lasting brand(12:52) Duolingo’s commitment to excellence (14:54) Luis’s journey to entrepreneurship (18:28) Luis’s MacArthur Fellowship “genius” award (20:13) The inspiration behind Duolingo’s mission and how they stay in alignment with it(26:16) Early learnings that shaped Duolingo into a fun product (29:14) How Duolingo gained an edge over Rosetta Stone(32:45) How a company with no revenue can be worth a billion dollars (33:10) The VC who pushed Luis and Severin to monetize (36:05) How Duolingo stays focused on long-term sustainability (40:12) A mistake Duolingo made by focusing on the quarter rather than long term (42:15) The importance of trust and “the cultural bank”(44:11) Duo class shares and ways Duolingo resists hyper-monetization (46:30) A case for staying under-monetized (48:23) Why Duolingo wrote a handbook, and the process of creating it(54:00) The cadence of evaluating the relevance of the handbook (55:01) Eric’s “two-way reviews” (58:34) An explanation of Duolingo’s “green machine” (1:01:42) Product reviews and a/b testing at Duolingo (1:06:32) Why Duolingo takes a stance against MVPs in their handbook(1:10:07) How Duolingo’s v1 meets Eric’s definition of MVP(1:11:45) Duolingo’s early strategy focused on retention (1:16:22) Duolingo’s testing philosophy (1:18:13) Lightning round—You can find the transcript and references at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠—Production and marketing by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.

In this episode of The Eric Ries Show, I’m joined by Amir Nathoo, Co-Founder and CEO of Outschool, an education platform offering live online classes for K-12 learners. Amir’s own childhood inspired Outschool—while he went to traditional schools, his parents always encouraged his self-driven coding projects at home. Outschool is about empowering kids to take control of their learning and building a lifelong love for education. It’s a mission-driven company that’s impacting how we think about education and social change. In today’s conversation, we explore the intersection of business and social good and why education needs disruption. We talk about the following topics: • Amir’s thoughts on AI’s role in education • How maximizing profit and benefiting society can go hand in hand • The value of allowing children to pursue their interests • Why engagement is the number one metric at Outschool • What Amir learned from the secular homeschool movement • How traditional investors sometimes hold back disruption and why that’s a problem • And more! — Brought to you by: Vanta – Automate compliance, manage risk, and prove trust—continuously. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get $1,000 off⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. — Where to find Amir Nathoo: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amirnathoo/ • X: https://x.com/amirnathoo • Website: https://amir.io/ — Where to find Eric: • Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericries.carrd.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Podcast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — In This Episode We Cover: (00:00) Intro (02:58) Outschool’s launch at the height of the pandemic (03:38) What a fiscal sponsorship and Outschool’s relationship with the Edward Charles Foundation (05:18) Why Amir is thinking of having kids on his board (07:40) How the pandemic was a critical moment for Outschool to launch their non-profit (10:00) A case for tying for-profit with social missions (17:56) Why younger generations value purpose-driven brands (20:27) Outschool’s mission-tied metrics and why Amir is against double bottom lines (23:10) Amir’s early experiences coding (24:50) How Amir came up with the idea of Outschool (28:52) How secular homeschooling inspired Outschool’s direction (31:22) Why engagement became Outschool’s biggest metric and guided their mission (36:55) What Amir learned from homeschoolers’ dynamic education journeys (44:00) How systemic deficits are driving changes in education (46:40) How Outschool supports diverse educational perspectives (50:10) Outschool’s first value: stand with learner (52:38) Outschool’s unique structure and how they keep employees tied to the mission (54:45) The case for truth and open-mindedness in business leadership (58:06) Eric’s bad experience working with an unscrupulous leader (1:02:00) Amir’s thoughts on disruption (1:05:08) The role of alignment in Outschool’s positive investor relationships (1:08:31) The value of human-to-human interaction and AI’s role in education (1:12:50) Amir’s thoughts on using AI to write an essay (1:13:41) Lightning round — You can find the transcript and references at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.ericriesshow.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Production and marketing by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Eric may be an investor in the companies discussed.