The Forest School Podcast

This one is special. Wem and I got to sit down with Dr Wendy Russell, independent play researcher, senior research fellow at the University of Gloucestershire, and 50 years into a career that started on an adventure playground apprenticeship in the 1970s. I came away from this conversation needing to go for a long walk and think about everything.The first half covers Wendy's work on spatial justice for children, the politics of public space, and what it would actually mean to have a statutory play sufficiency duty in England. We talk about what play sufficiency means in practice, why Wales has led the way, and why politicians keep defaulting to playgrounds when the picture is so much bigger than that.The second half goes deeper, into the relational capability approach to playing and being well that Wendy has developed with Mike Barkley and Ben Tawil of Ludicology. Drawing on Henri Lefebvre's production of space, Karen Barad's concept of intra-action, and the relational turn across academic disciplines, Wendy patiently walked Wem and me through a genuinely paradigm-shifting way of thinking about children, play, agency and wellbeing.By the end, the playwork principles themselves come under scrutiny. The idea of play as "freely chosen and personally directed" gets unpicked in a way that I'm still sitting with.Strap in. Press rewind as many times as you need. See you on the other side.In this episodeHow Wendy moved from adventure playground apprentice to academic researcher across 50 years in play and playworkThe politics of space and what spatial justice for children actually meansWhy falling road casualty statistics for children hide a much more troubling storyPlay sufficiency as a principle, what it is, what Wales has done with it, and why England feels like it's at a genuine policy moment right nowThe tension between play's intrinsic value and what funders and politicians actually want to measureWhy post-occupancy evaluation of housing developments almost never happens, and what Diana Bournat's research tells us when it doesHow repositioning a ball games area changes the way girls move across an entire spaceThe relational capability approach to playing and being well, resources, opportunities, and the conditions that allow children to playThe relational turn across academic disciplines and what it means to move away from the individual, atomised childKaren Barad's concept of intra-action and why "interaction" doesn't quite capture itWhat all of this means for forest school practice, the wind, the branch, the ants, and usFollowing an object across a play session as a practitioner reflective tool (I am absolutely trying this)Why "freely chosen and personally directed" is a useful definition and also, it turns out, a deeply adult-centric oneLinks and resourcesWendy Russell's publications, University of Gloucestershire research repository (search "Wendy Russell Gloucestershire") or via her LinkedIn profile [add link]Playing and Being Well, the Play Wales commissioned research review: playwales.org.ukPlay Wales: playwales.org.ukPlay England: playengland.org.ukLudicology, Mike Barkley and Ben Tawil: ludicology.comUNCRC General Comment 17 on Article 31, children's right to playHenri Lefebvre, The Production of SpaceKaren Barad, concept of intra-actionTim Gill, children's independent mobility and road space design: timgill.netComing up at Children of the ForestPedagogy Immersion Weekend, 15 and 16 August 2026, Devon. If you're already qualified and you want to have the kind of conversation we've just had, this is the place. Tickets and nearby accommodation listings at children-of-the-forest.comLevel 3 Forest School Leader Training, Sunday cohort and intensive holiday block formats. Details and booking on the website.Send us a voice noteGot thoughts on this episode? There's a button on the website where you can record us a voice note directly from your phone. We genuinely love getting them.

In this lively, idea packed episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem move from Halloween chatter to a full nature reset. Wales waterfalls, Pen y Fan, Regent’s Park squirrels, and the deer rut at Richmond Park set the scene for a deeper dive. Lewis picks up Ludo Botany again and invites listeners to help build a new series, starting with tree climbing. The pair then unpack a Finnish trial that “rewilded” kindergartens with real forest floor to boost children’s microbiomes, compare new Australian findings, and explore equity, ethics, hygiene practice, and culture change. A new original song appears too. It is written from the viewpoint of an oak tree watching its acorns become craft supplies. 🌳⏱ Chapter Timings00:00 – Patreon intro and scene setting01:12 – Halloween, Wales waterfalls, Pen y Fan, London parks, and the deer rut07:02 – Ludo Botany returns and a listener call out for tree climbing nominations09:21 – New song premiere about acorns and seasonal crafting13:28 – Finland’s “forest floor in preschool” study and children’s microbiomes20:12 – Australian follow up and wider wellbeing gains beyond health22:55 – Mud as equity and even an academic intervention for learners26:30 – Ethics and longevity of transplanted soil and maintenance questions33:22 – Practicalities in settings: hygiene, thresholds, roles, and risk benefit35:56 – Alternatives: link settings to real woodlands and use green hedges to cut pollution🌲 KeywordsForest School, microbiome play, rewilded kindergartens, Finnish early years, Australian study, loose parts, hygiene thresholds, equity in education, tree climbing, Ludo Botany, Richmond Park deer rut, Welsh waterfalls🔖 Hashtags#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #NaturePlay #EarlyYears #ChildDevelopment🎧 Catch the full episode:Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyIYouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUsApple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMFRSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9📚 Article and studies mentionedGuardian feature: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/29/soil-sandpit-children-dirty-biodiversity-finnish-nurseries-research-microbes-bacteria-aoeFinnish intervention study (Science Advances, 2020): https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aba2578Open-access version: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7556828/Australian childcare soil microbiome study (2024): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38583619/Flinders news summary: https://news.flinders.edu.au/blog/2024/06/18/dose-of-dirt-for-healthy-play/On playground pollution barriers with hedges: https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/roadside-hedges-can-reduce-harmful-ultrafine-particle-pollution-around-schools and https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-18509-w🌐 More Episodes & SupportListen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastFor questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

In this reflective, funny episode, Lewis and Gemma reunite in the same room, fresh from a Royal Forestry Society award and a whirlwind visit to Westonbirt Arboretum. Using the provocatively titled book *We Need Your Art: Stop ***ing Around and Make Something as a springboard, they unpack how Western culture sidelines creativity, why Forest School’s process-first ethos matters, and how to plan for failure with kinder self-talk. Expect talk of “shitty art” challenges, class and permission to fail, celebrating small milestones without slipping into praise economies, acorn milk experiments, squirrel mysteries, and the radical power of modelling silliness so children feel safe to try, tinker, and try again.TENTSILE — Tree tents that transform tricky ground into magical campouts. Listeners get 10% off with code ForestChildren10 at checkout.Chris Holland — Nature connection resources we genuinely rate. Explore his 54-page plant guide and more via our affiliate link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast00:43 – Back together: RFS award, Westonbirt Arboretum, and “Square Oil” giggles04:24 – The book: bold Sharpie manifestos that kick you into making06:15 – Structure: reflective prompts, a two-week “make something daily” challenge, and looking back07:36 – Why Forest School is a curriculum-free haven for creativity, not metrics08:52 – How school and society infantilise art and push it to the margins11:44 – Product versus process: performances, gifts, and the “motivation soup”19:18 – Class, safety nets, and permission to fail in creative careers21:39 – Plan your self-talk for when you fail; modelling kinder language with parents33:26 – Celebrating small milestones together without turning joy into judgment52:32 – Stop at 80%: making endings easy, sustainable, and actually enjoyable🌲 Keywords: Forest School creativity, process-focused learning, failure and self-talk, celebrating milestones, class and creativity, modelling silliness, acorn processing, non-judgemental spaces, child-led practice, practitioner reflectionSpotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyIYouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUsApple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMFRSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9🔖 Hashtags:#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #ProcessOverProduct #CreativeConfidence #NatureBasedLearning🌐 More episodes and support:Listen and find resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastFor questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.comSponsors and partners⏱ Chapter timings🎧 Catch the full episode:

In this calm, reflective conversation, Lewis and Wem sit down with play worker and artist Max Alexander of Play Radical to explore autistic play as a joyful, valid, and richly varied landscape. Max shares how one to one playwork can reconnect isolated young people to authentic play, why reflection habits from nursing training shaped their practice, and how non extractive documentation like session haiku can honour privacy while communicating value. The trio unpack the difference between rigid taxonomies and Max’s lighter play shapes, discuss why autistic play matters for wellbeing today rather than only for future outcomes, and explore practitioner shorthand that helps teams notice and scaffold emerging shapes. The second half turns to adult play, instincts, and the social barriers that police how bodies move in public. The result is a practical and humane guide to noticing more, intervening less, and creating space where play can breathe.TENTSILE is supporting this episode. Forest School leaders can get 10 percent off a Stingray tree tent with the code ForestChildren10 at checkout.Chris Holland is also supporting this episode. Grab his 54 page plant guide with our affiliate link and discount: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast00:43 Windy morning intro and Max joins the chat02:11 What Play Radical is and how Max works across roles03:47 One to one playwork and inclusion for isolated autistic children05:22 From nursing to The Yard and how practice took shape08:03 Reflection habits and a commitment to accessible information13:06 Haiku as non extractive documentation and a live example16:25 Play shapes versus taxonomies and how to hold them lightly22:34 Why autistic play matters for wellbeing and joy right now23:26 Practitioner shorthand and supporting emerging shapes33:42 Adult play instincts and barriers in public spacesAutistic play, play shapes, neurodiversity, inclusive playwork, one to one playwork, reflective practice, haiku documentation, Forest School, Bob Hughes play types, practitioner shorthand, adult play, privacy in play, anti ableism, teen play, Play Radical, The Yard Edinburgh🎧 Catch the full episode:Spotify: https://shorturl.at/4WdyIYouTube: https://shorturl.at/3qOUsApple: https://shorturl.at/FxfMFRSS: https://shorturl.at/A0kx9#ForestSchool #AutisticPlay #OutdoorEducation #ReflectivePractice #Neurodiversity🌐 More Episodes and SupportListen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastFor questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

In this warm and curious episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Gemma sit down with historian and fibre artist Nicole DeRushie to explore her new book, Bog Fashion: Recreating Bronze and Iron Age Clothes. The conversation traces Nicole’s path from Forest School leader to public historian, then dives into experimental archaeology, everyday clothing in prehistory, women’s roles in textile innovation, and why craft skills like nalbinding still matter. Expect practical insight for educators who want to bring textiles into sessions, thoughtful reflections on value and labour, and plenty of joy in imperfect making. Note for listeners: this was a cloud recording so audio quality varies, yet the content is rich throughout.Sponsored byTENTSILE, makers of tree tents and hammocks that Forest School leaders love. Use code ForestChildren10 for 10% off at checkout.Chris Holland’s 54-page plant guide for outdoor educators. Get an exclusive discount through this link: https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast⏱ Chapter Timings00:00 Patreon intro and why listener support keeps the show going01:11 Episode set up, Nicole’s book Bog Fashion, and what to expect02:42 From Forest School to public history, museums, and ancient craft practice07:53 Why Bronze and Iron Age clothing, and why bog finds matter for teaching13:29 Everyday lives over kings and dates, making museums feel lived in22:39 Who made the cloth, evidence, myths, and what we can and cannot claim31:32 The changing value of textiles, from household wealth to fast fashion37:58 The crafter’s triangle, learning through failure, and Forest School links49:11 Endangered crafts and nalbinding, how to keep skills alive1:05:17 Where to find Nicole and Bog Fashion, retailers, events, and Instagram🔗 Links from this episodeBog Fashion at ChronoCopia Publishing, book details and retailers: chronocopia.se/books/bog-fashion/ chronocopia.seNicole DeRushie on Instagram: instagram.com/grounded_history InstagramHeritage Crafts Red List overview: heritagecrafts.org.uk/skills/redlist Heritage CraftsNalbinding craft page, background and status: heritagecrafts.org.uk/craft/nalbinding Heritage CraftsMust Farm, Late Bronze Age settlement and textile context: mustfarm.com/bronze-age-settlement/about Must FarmAshmolean Museum shop listing among UK stockists, via publisher page: shop.ashmolean.org and chronocopia stockist list chronocopia.se🌲 Keywords: Bog Fashion, prehistoric textiles, experimental archaeology, nalbinding, heritage crafts, women and weaving, Bronze Age clothing, Iron Age clothing, Forest School activities, public history🔖 Hashtags:#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #BogFashion #PrehistoricTextiles #ExperimentalArchaeology #Nalbinding #HeritageCrafts #ChildLedLearning #CPD #NatureBasedLearning🌐 More Episodes and SupportListen to more and access resources: www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community: www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastQuestions or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

In this thought-provoking episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis speaks with Melissa, widely known as The Modern Mortician, to explore the deep intersections between death care, nature connection, and community learning. Beginning with light-hearted bug encounters and moving into meaningful reflections, the conversation spans Melissa’s career journey from traditional funeral homes to her current role as a death doula and advocate for greener, more intentional end-of-life practices. Together they unpack topics including green burial, water cremation, the realities and myths around “eco” death products, and how environmental considerations influence our final choices. They also discuss the emotional and cultural importance of involving children in death rituals, parallels between small animal burials at Forest School and human funerals, and how openness, presence, and hands-on experience can change our relationship with loss. With a mix of practical insight, personal stories, and gentle humour, this episode invites listeners to rethink death as a natural, participatory part of life.🌲 Chapter Timings:00:00 – Clay hairpieces, bug encounters, and the day’s woodland context02:01 – Introducing Melissa: The Modern Mortician’s work and journey into death care06:37 – Animal burials at Forest School and what really happens underground09:19 – Green burial processes and Melissa’s personal story of exhuming her cat12:24 – How grief and burial choices can shift over time20:07 – Balancing professional knowledge with honouring people’s choices24:14 – Water cremation explained: process, benefits, and environmental impact26:39 – Why conservation burial tops the list for eco-friendly end-of-life care31:18 – Myths, marketing, and the truth about “eco” burial products37:24 – Local sourcing, human composting, and hidden environmental costs50:52 – Why children benefit from involvement in death rituals56:26 – Behind-the-scenes realities of funeral industry “natural” presentation1:01:02 – Advice for Forest School leaders: normalising involvement and presence🌲 Keywords: green burial, water cremation, human composting, conservation burial, natural burial, eco death care, death doula, child involvement in funerals, animal burials, Forest School rituals, end-of-life choices, environmental impact of funerals, grief and participation, cultural attitudes to death, The Modern Mortician🔖 Hashtags:#ForestSchool #OutdoorEducation #GreenBurial #WaterCremation #ChildLedLearning #EcoDeathCare #DeathDoula #ForestSchoolPodcast #NatureAndDeath #LifeCycles #CommunityRituals #SustainableFunerals #EndOfLifeEducation #HandsOnHealing #TheModernMortician🌐 More Episodes & Support:Listen to more and access resources at www.theforestschoolpodcast.comSupport the show and join our community at www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcastFor questions, feedback, or collaboration: admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com

In this warm and wonderfully meandering episode of The Forest School Podcast, Lewis and Wem dive into The Joys and Shapes of Autistic Play by Max Alexander. Nestled among tangents about shouting sparrowhawks, jewel-encrusted slugs, and beloved sticks, they explore how Max's taxonomy of autistic play shapes offers both validation and practical insights for outdoor educators. Together, they unpack play types like pancake stacking, relational mapping, and object harmonising, and reflect on how this lens supports more inclusive, curious, and non-judgemental practice. The conversation touches on inner worlds, the limits of Bob Hughes’ taxonomy, and the value of reframing behaviours through a neurodivergent-affirming perspective. With humour, honesty, and deep respect for Max’s work, this episode is a love letter to the strange, sincere, and silly world of play.🎁 Sponsored by Tentsile and Chris HollandEnjoy 10% off Tentsile tree tents with the code ForestChildren10 – perfect for immersive outdoor sessions.Get Chris Holland’s 54-page plant guide at a discounted rate using the code on his site:https://chrisholland.myshopify.com/?ref=ForestSchoolPodcast⏱ Chapter Timings00:00 – Shouting sparrowhawks and reptilian parent brains03:30 – Jeweled slugs and ceramic plant pot friends04:07 – Introducing The Joys and Shapes of Autistic Play by Max Alexander06:03 – Why it’s accessible, shareable, and belongs in your backpack06:58 – What the book is: eight play shapes and how to support them08:29 – Play shapes vs. play types: where Bob Hughes meets inner worlds10:44 – What counts as valid play, and what we sometimes dismiss15:14 – Pancake stacking, poisoned cakes, and joyful repetition22:30 – Relational mapping and understanding bodies as play resources32:21 – Voice as a sensory toy and reframing 'disruptive' behaviours40:31 – Object harmonising, companionship with sticks, and the story of a ruby-red brake light52:27 – Nesting as a verb, den conflicts, and design implications for Forest School spaces58:12 – Sincerity + silliness = play; where this book belongs in your CPD journey🌲 KeywordsAutistic play, Max Alexander, play shapes, Bob Hughes, Forest School, inclusive practice, neurodivergent affirmation, relational mapping, object harmonising, nesting, voice as a sensory toy, pancake stacking, playwork, non-judgemental education, play taxonomies, play diaries, observation🔖 Hashtags#ForestSchool #AutisticPlay #PlayShapes #InclusiveEducation #NeurodivergentAffirming #Playwork #ObjectHarmonising #VoiceAsSensoryToy #PancakeStacking #ForestSchoolPodcast #NatureBasedLearning #ChildLedPlay #OutdoorEducation #RelationalMapping #ReflectivePractice🌐 More Episodes & SupportListen to more and access resources at ⁠www.theforestschoolpodcast.com⁠Support the show and join our community at ⁠www.patreon.com/theforestschoolpodcast⁠For questions, feedback, or collaboration: ⁠admin@theforestschoolpodcast.com