The LDA Podcast: An Exploration of Evidence-Informed Approaches to Learning and Development

OVERVIEW In this episode, Debbie Richards and Markus dive into the cutting edge of immersive learning and the hard truths of AI policies. From navigating VR headsets to addressing the ethical challenges of AI in the workplace, Debbie shares invaluable insights for L&D professionals. Learn why a 'common sense' approach won’t cut it when managing AI, and how immersive tech is transforming the learning landscape. Tune in for practical advice on upskilling, reskilling, and making AI work for your organization—without sacrificing ethics or data security. Shownotes: Debbie Richards on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/cre8iveii/ Creative Interactive Ideas - https://cre8iveii.com/ AR/VR article - https://www.learningguild.com/articles/immersive-frontiers-transforming-learning-with-ar--vr/ Notebook LM from google - https://notebooklm.google/ L&D Cares - https://www.ldcares.org/

We take a break from our regularly featured programming. The following is the audio from a special, informal discussion about AI that LDA recently produced for our community. We thought it lent itself nicely to the podcast, as well. In this special discussion, Lori Niles-Hofmann and Stella Lee school Matt on the basic ins and outs of AI. We talk about what AI is. We talk about the different types of AI. Matt asks whether the world of Terminator is soon coming to pass! Stella and Lori correct that notion. We dive into the ethical issues that using AI impact both short-, and long-term. We delve into how information gets curated on different AI platforms. We explore the implications in general, as well as for L&D, when using AI. Specifically we look at the practical implications. Can we use AI to help us solve some of those wicked problems we face? Lori and Stella share advice on how to engage with vendors pushing their AI offerings. Or, at least some questions one might ask when others are authorized to buy, but you have to use it. Speaking of practical… and speaking of ethics… when is it ok to use AI when constructing designs, writing, or researching? What are hallucinations? When does the AI misunderstand us? How do we misunderstand what we get from it? While many are way more educated and knowledgeable about AI than Matt. Many others are still confused about what it all means and what it does— but are frankly, slightly… mildly… embarrassed to ask. Ok… Matt admits, he had no clue what generative AI referred to instead of “regular” AI. But he does now, as a result of Stella and Lori's educational explanations. The bottom line is this special program provides the highlights of AI basics as it pertains to L&D. We hope you enjoy! _____________________________________________ More about Lori and Stella: Lori Niles-Hofmann Lori is a senior learning strategist with over 20 years’ of L&D experience. Specializing in large-scale digital learning transformation, Lori is passionate about helping companies navigate the ambiguity of change. After leading and completing numerous EdTech implementations, Lori has developed the data-based methodologies and frameworks that empower L&D teams to move from a business support function to strategic business driver. Lori is currently based in Toronto, Canada with one foot in Europe. STELLA LEE With over 20 years of experience in the e-learning and edtech industry, Stella is a director at Paradox Learning, a consulting firm that provides and evaluates innovative learning solutions across multiple devices, cultures, and platforms. She work with clients from various sectors, such as government, education, non-profit, and corporate, to help them achieve their learning and development goals with data-driven and technology-enabled approaches. As a consultant, startup advisor, writer, speaker, community organizer, educator, and researcher, she is passionate about sharing her insights and expertise on e-learning, edtech, AI, learning analytics, adaptive and personalized learning, and more.

We are rejoined by Will Thalheimer to talk about one of his favorite topics, awards in the L&D industry. Should we have them? Should we give them out? How do we do it better… if at all? We explore a pretty exhaustive list of the general issues with using and distributing awards among industry professionals by industry professional groups. Heck, we even find a few good points to support the tradition, as well. Are these industry awards fair? Are they judged effectively and fairly? What are, and should, be the criteria for winning an award? What rubric is used? Who designs the rubric? Are we even rewarding the “right” stuff (whatever that means)? What about money? Application fees? And paying for the awards? Bias? Vendor relationships? Heck, are these awards even manageable… doable in order to ensure claimed standards and fairness? ‎Is an evolving approach, perhaps to think about certification? Who judges the judges? Will even hands out an award called the Neon Elephant Award, as he attempts to bypass many of the issues we discuss. You can learn more about it here: https://www.worklearning.com/2010/11/02/neon-elephant-award/. Does he succeed? Yes— we know there are tons of awards out there, so we are speaking generically. But the questions of fairness and appropriate judgement still hold. Matt references NASAGA. The North American Simulation and Gaming Association. We also reference ISPI, the International Society for Performance Improvement. Any conversation about awards within the context of L&D would, and should, lead to a conversation about program and practitioner evaluation. We, of couse, talk about Will’s Learning Transfer Evaluation Model (LTEM). You can learn more about that here: https://www.worklearning.com/ltem/. Will brings up one of his passion ideas… that within L&D, we should have independent journalists investigating and report on how we do, what we do, and what we could do better. He originally talks it about it in the LDA Podcast, Episode 4. And what about impact? Is impact the key? Or, are we missing the boat? What about the differences between learning and impact? How do we ensure that our learning engagement was actually the cause of the identified impact. LDA had the wonderful, Alex Edmans, from the London Business School, on our MEET THE AUTHOR Series. The video is here: https://members.ldaccelerator.com/c/meet-the-author-space/meet-the-author-alex-edmans. We reference his new book, May Contain Lies. You can find the book and learn more about Alex, here: https://alexedmans.com/books/ Will’s new book is The CEO’s Guide to Training, eLearning, and Work. You can learn more and buy it here: https://www.ceosguide.net. You can learn more about Will here: https://www.worklearning.com/about/.

In this episode, Matt and Clark are joined by the great Karl Kapp. We dive into a favorite topic… using commercial games for learning. Shameless plug… The Commercial Games Workshop with Karl Kapp and Matt on December 11-12, 2024 in Philadelphia. We talk about how to utilize games and activities for team building and ensure they become both domain specific and transfer back to the workplace. We also distinguish between cooperative and competitive gaming experiences, as well as their respective pros and cons. We discuss tips, constraints, and applications for using games— specifically commercial games. The game itself is never the goal… we talk about how to leverage the game to reach an instructional purpose. We talk about balancing fun and the objective. We talk about debriefing game play. Karl refers to war gaming. Learning is a system. A game is a system that is a part of that greater learning system. Clark refers to Kurt Squire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Squire Game of Phones— Kris Rockwell: https://briandusablon.com/2011/07/01/a-game-of-phones/ Matt references Board Game Geek. https://boardgamegeek.com Wil Wheaton's Tabletop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THjo1hjtz0g&list=PL7atuZxmT956cWFGxqSyRdn6GWhBxiAwE Games mentioned: Civilization Escape Rooms Timeline Forbidden Island New York Times’ Flashback Fluxx Break the Safe ‎Monopoly ‎Oregon Trail ‎Lost Dutchman Goldmine (by Scott Simmerman) ‎Risk ‎Stratego ‎Ticket to Ride ‎Age of Empires ‎Pandemic ‎Barnga ‎War ‎Gin Rummy ‎Ninety-Nine ‎Cards Against Humanity ‎Titan Quest ‎Firefly ‎‎Code Names NYT Connections ‎Reigns ‎Candy Crush ‎Plants vs. Zombies ‎Murder by Choice ‎JJ Abrams’ S. Temple Run ‎The Dwarf King ‎Hanabi ‎‎Guillotine ‎Hearts ‎Pitch ‎Cassino ‎NYT Strands A bit about Karl… He has over 27 years of experience as a professor of instructional technology and 15 years as the Director of the Institute for Interactive Technologies at Bloomsburg University— now Commonwealth University, He helps people understand the convergence of learning, technology, games and game-thinking through fun, laughter and insight. As the founder of the Learning and Development Mentor Academy, he provides seasoned L&D professionals with access to a library of on-demand, self-paced workshops, monthly live sessions, and a vibrant community of peers and experts. Karl also co-founded Enterprise Game Stack, a company that designs, develops and delivers online, digital card activities and games that keep participants focused, engaged, and collaborative, while reinforcing learning both in the moment and over time. You can find Karl on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlkapp/ Or on his website, https://karlkapp.com

We are delighted to have the great Koreen Pagano join the podcast for the furthering conversation on skills. We get Koreen’s perspective and definition of skills. Matt alludes to the earlier LDA Podcast, The “What the Skills” Episode with Paul Kirschner, as well as the research work he did with John Sweller and Richard Clark published in their article: Kirschner, P.A., Sweller, J., & Clark, R.E. (2006). Why minimal guidance during instruction does not work: An analysis of the failure of constructivist discovery, problem-based, experiential, and inquiry-based teaching. Educational Psychologist. 41(2), 75-86. In the episode, we dig into whether one can teach, and how one can teach, conflict resolution, critical thinking, and even tease the subject of teaching leadership. The debate really gets playfully heated when they talk about critical thinking. Clark uses the famous phrase, “yes… and…” Matt references the great improv in business practitioner, Kat Koppett. Her first book, Training to Imagine is a great source to go into yes, anding… in more depth. Matt references evolutionary skills and brings up the references from Sweller: Sweller, J. (2016). Cognitive Load Theory: What We Learn and How We Learn. In M. Spector, B. Lockee, & M. Childress (Eds.), Learning, design, and technology (pp. 1–28). Springer. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-17727-4_50-1 And Geary Geary, D. C. (2008). An evolutionarily informed education science. Educational Psychologist, 43(4), 179–195. https://doi.org/10.1080/00461520802392133 We discuss what it means to master skills, and develop automation. We also explore how to assess whether a person has a skill or the potential to develop a skill. We debate transferability and whether skills— especially complex skills need be taught within a contextual domain. Matt argues yes. Koreen argues no. Clark argues “It depends.” They also debate whether, and how much, talent plays into skill development. Heck… is talent even a thing? The big argument centers around Carnegie Hall and playing golf! And of course, Anders Ericsson is a part of the conversation. Ericsson, K. A., & Charness, N. (1994). Expert performance: Its structure and acquisition. American Psychologist, 49: 725–747. Matt referenced the Human Development expert, Richard Lerner. Koreen references the hostage negotiator, Chris Voss and his book, Never Split the Difference. And we even debate how transferrable the skill of game design is! And we talked about so much more!!! Of course, we run out of time because we had so much fun chatting with Koreen… that we didn’t get to Best and Worst! Next time… and Koreen will be back! More about Koreen: Koreen Pagano, Chief Product Officer at Thrive Learning and founder of Isanno, is a globally recognized product executive with deep expertise in learning technologies, skills strategy, AI, analytics, and immersive technologies. Koreen has held product leadership roles at companies including Lynda.com, LinkedIn, D2L, Degreed, and Wiley. Koreen previously founded Tandem Learning in 2008, where she pioneered immersive learning through virtual worlds, games, and simulations. She has taught graduate courses at Harrisburg University and provided advisory and consulting services to a range of tech companies in the corporate learning, VR, and K12 education markets. Koreen is a seasoned international speaker, author of the book Immersive Learning and an upcoming book on organizational skills transformation due out in 2025. You can find Koreen here: https://isanno.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/koreenpagano/

We have the wonderful Nigel Paine back in the house for an exciting and banter-filled episode about leadership. It's a continuation of the previous Nigel show, The "Follow the Leader" Episode. Nigel and Matt continue the conversation about the nuance of leadership-- what the heck is it practically as organizations struggle to get their arms around it. A bulk of the discussion centers on the work of the wonderful historian and leadership expert, Keith Grint from the Säid Business School of the University of Oxford and also the University of Warwick, both in the UK. You can learn more about Keith here: https://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/about-us/people/keith-grint And a wonderful primer on Keith's work is his short book, LEADERSHIP, A VERY SHORT INTRODUCTION. You can get it here: https://amzn.to/4elBIeg They leverage his problem-based model of leadership taking Rittel and Webber's Wicked and Tame problems (and adding Critical Problems) as a basis for prescribing a leadership, management, or command response. Rittel and Webber. Here is the reference to their work: Rittel, H.W.J. and Webber, M.M.. (1973) Dilemmas in a General Theory of Planning. Policy Sciences. 4, pp. 155-169. The classicJames MacGregor Burns book introducing the concept of Transformational Leadership is: Burns, J. M. (1978). Leadership (1st ed.). New York: Harper & Row. Barbara Kellermen's book is: Kellerman, B. (2012). The end of leadership (1st ed.). New York: Harper Business, An Imprint of Harper Collins Publishers. Jeffrey Pfeffer wrote a wonder book called LEADERSHIP BS. The reference is: Pfeffer, J. (2015). Leadership BS : fixing workplaces and careers one truth at a time (First edition. ed.). New York, NY: Harper Business, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers. We also reference Ronald Riggio: Riggio, R. E. (Ed.) (2018). What’s Wrong with Leadership? New York: Routledge. Matt incorrectly says Charles Wheelen's name. It is Wheelen and his book is called Naked Economics. We allude to systems-based leadership. You can learn more about it here: Raelin, J. A. (2016). Imagine There Are No Leaders: Reframing Leader‐ ship as Collaborative Agency. Leadership & Organization Development Journal, 12(2), 131-158. In Best and Worst, we reference the new book by economist, Alex Edmans, MAY CONTAIN LIES, found anywhere books are sold.

We welcome back Emma Weber for part II of our conversation about coaching. This episode focuses on the qualifications and requirements for what makes an effective coach. We start with how to go about finding a coach. Emma offered to provide any listeners with her Assessing Coaching Capability Grid. You can get it here: https://mailchi.mp/leverlearning.com/svcitt67nx We briefly discuss Self-Determination Theory, a motivation model widely researched and used globally. You can learn more about it here: https://selfdeterminationtheory.org/ We talk about Paul Kirschner and John Sweller who have researched and talked extensively about explicit and direct instruction versus the "in the flow of work" folks like Conrad Gottfredson and Bob Mosher from 5 Moments of Need. You can learn more about the thoughts of Paul here: https://3starlearningexperiences.wordpress.com/ And 5 Moments of Need here: https://www.5momentsofneed.com/ Clark references Harold Jarche's Seek, Sense, Share: https://jarche.com/pkm/ We also talk about the professionalization of coaching. Should coaches... how can coaches... be certified? Can coaching be standardized? And we talk about coach bots. Of course, we end with the Best and the Worst where we discuss conference season and who attends the sessions. Shameless plug for Matt's new book with Thiagi on LDA Press... you can pre-order it here in French or English: https://ldaccelerator.com/techniques-interactives-pour-lapprentissage And additional shameless plug... LDA has partnered with the Center for Self-Determination Theory to produce a new, monthly podcast/ video cast where we engage with a researcher/ practitioner in the motivational psychology field about their respective work. You can find the show, and subscribe to it, here: https://ldaccelerator.com/sdtpodcast For those unfamiliar with Emma, she is the founder of Lever – Transfer of Learning, and developer of the Turning Learning into Action™ methodology. In 2002 Emma left a successful corporate career in London to start her own business in Australia, following her passion for coaching and learning. Her firm belief, and the platform on which she has built her successful global business, is that the goal of learning in the workplace is to create tangible business benefits. She established Lever – Transfer of Learning to help organisations and their employees convert learning to effective action back on the job. Under her guidance Lever Learning now delivers programs throughout 16 countries and in 11 languages. She is the author of Turning Learning into Action: A Proven Methodology for Effective Transfer of Learning, published by Kogan Page in 2014. You can find Emma via her website: https://transferoflearning.com/ or on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmaweber/.