The Leadership Podcast

Joth Ricci is CEO of LYBL (Live Your Best Life), owner of Winderlea Winery, author of The System, executive chair of Burgerville, and former CEO of Dutch Bros and Stumptown Coffee. In this conversation, Joth explains why great companies aren't built by leaders who solve more problems—they're built by leaders who teach their people how to solve them. He breaks down the difference between executing and multiplying, what actually breaks during scaling, why discipline is the foundation of everything, and what the next decade of leadership development is actually missing. For leaders who've built something good but want to scale it without losing it, or for anyone responsible for developing the next generation of leaders, this episode cuts to the root of where most organizations plateau. Find episode 516 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Joth Ricci on The Leader as Teacher: Building Leaders, Scaling Companies, and Multiplying Impact https://bit.ly/TLP-516 Key Moments [05:59] The behavior that blocks learning in every organization and how to fix it [08:01] What breaks first when you scale too fast and how to protect against it [10:50] The recipe for pacing growth without losing your culture [13:13] Why discipline isn't just a trait—it's the through-line of great leadership [15:57] How to spot a leadership multiplier versus someone who's just executing [17:46] The number one mistake when promoting high performers into leadership [19:44] A coaching principle most executives miss [22:02] The gap between resilience and burnout—and what leaders actually need to do [24:14] How to balance purpose-driven work with financial performance [27:07] What the next generation of leaders is missing [31:00] Why curiosity and people skills are the real bottleneck for the future [34:27] When success isn't enough—the shift from achievement to fulfillment Memorable Quotes "Adults are just adult versions of the 16 year olds they were. You have engaged employees, employees just getting through the day, and employees staying off the radar. Great leaders engage at all learning levels." "I don't solve problems for people. I teach them how to work through problems. That shows you what people are made of. The people who can figure it out, they're going to do okay. The people who can't—they don't pass the test." "Great leadership is about pacing. Understanding how to manage your organization's pace and what they can and can't do. You build capacity incrementally, not in big steps. If you go too fast, it breaks you and the organization." "I'm a big believer in the discipline of staying on task, the discipline of getting things done, the discipline of how you manage your day. You can't manage others if you don't manage yourself well." "The job of a coach is to prepare your people. The players play the game; the coach doesn't. That's how you lead—constantly preparing people for what they do." "When I look for multipliers, I'm looking for people having influence on other people—dynamic in rooms, connecting with people, not talking at them. Emotionally able to meet people where they're at." "The number one mistake is promoting good performers who haven't shown those markers of leadership potential. We're good at identifying performance. We're terrible at identifying potential leaders." "Psychological fitness is not just recharging. It's the ability to stay on strategy and lead your teams through execution even in times of challenge or great growth." "The one thing many leaders miss is their ability to engage at different learning levels and achievement levels. We expect people to perform but don't spend time helping them get better." "The most impactful thing I ever did wasn't taking Dutch public. It was helping people grow. That's what fulfills me. And now I get to do that full-time." "A great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of arts, since the medium is the human mind and spirit." — John Steinbeck Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Website | winderlea.com Website | www.thesystem.co LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/joth-ricci-1248588

Karen Doll is a licensed psychologist, author of "Building Psychological Fitness: How High Performers Achieve with Ease," a partner at Psynet Group and chairs the Flourishing at Work initiative under Harvard's Flourishing Program. Most leaders know how to push through stress. Far fewer know how to recover from it. Karen argues that the difference matters more than most people realize. In this conversation, she explains why psychological fitness is not a personality trait but a trainable skill. She breaks down the difference between the stress that helps you grow and the stress that slowly wears you down, why resilience is more about recharging than enduring, and what leaders can do to support mental health at work without trying to become therapists. For leaders who feel constantly on, stretched thin, or responsible for the wellbeing of their teams, this episode offers a practical framework for building resilience that lasts. Find episode 514 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | https://youtu.be/S54CwTMZY0Q https://bit.ly/TLP-514 Key Moments [03:33] What separates psychologically fit leaders from those who struggle [05:37] Why mental strength is trainable and what that actually looks like [08:19] Top-down vs. bottom-up strategies for managing stress and the mental health continuum [13:22] Shared accountability: what leaders owe their teams on mental health [15:23] The victim mindset problem and what leaders can do about it [21:00] Why there's no magic test that predicts leadership success [24:48] The two biggest derailers Karen sees in executive assessment [28:12] The sweet spot between healthy ambition and burnout [31:45] Why clarity on your values is the shortcut nobody takes [33:23] Why the victim mindset is the silent career killer [35:54] When Karen's own psychological fitness was tested and what changed [39:34] Closing thoughts: the one thing every leader can do starting today Memorable Quotes "Resilience is about recharging. It isn't about powering through." "Between the stimulus and the response, there is a space. In that space lies our power to choose." "Defensiveness is the one thing I will not give feedback on. You tell someone they're defensive and they defend themselves. It's a dead end." "The goalpost keeps moving — and people are left feeling it's never enough. That is unnecessary distress." "Those that can spend the time recovering tend to struggle less." "Having social support and a multi-dimensional life — that's probably number one in terms of buffers against stress." "We do all have some agency in how we manage our mental health and how we move towards flourishing." "When something upsets us, sometimes that thinking pattern is not serving us and it's not necessarily factual." "If you move the body, it can settle the mind." "Leaders don't need to be their team's therapist." "Being a victim or having a victim mindset is not going to work out well for anybody — and that's never going to be good for mental health." "Self care is selfish — that was the core belief I had to break." "Small acts of kindness for people who are struggling — think of what a difference that can make. And that's accessible to all of us." "Just being a little more intentional — it doesn't cost anything. It doesn't need budget." "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal. Nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." — Thomas Jefferson Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Karen Doll Website | https://psynetgroup.com/ LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/learning/improving-your-mental-health-at-work Karen Doll LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/karendecesaredoll

Kevin Rice is the former co-founder and president of Hathaway, a digital consultancy acquired by Bounteous in 2021. He is now an angel investor at Theorem One Capital and host of the CEOs and ABCs podcast. Kevin focuses on a gap most leaders don't want to look at. The difference between who you are at work and who you are at home. At work, the metrics are clear. You perform, you grow, you win. At home, none of that works. The scoreboard is different, and most leaders realize that too late. He describes how years of operating in "CEO mode" made him effective in business but distant in the one place it mattered most. The same habits that drove results at work were quietly breaking connections at home. Kevin explains why the real currency at home is not revenue or growth, but connection, and why one hour of full presence beats a full day of being half there. He also shares what it looked like to lead a company while raising young kids on his own and the moment he could no longer ignore the gap. For leaders who are winning professionally but feel something slipping personally, this episode puts language to the cost and makes it clear what it takes to close that gap. Find episode 511 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Kevin Rice on Winning at Work, Losing at Home https://bit.ly/TLP-512 Key Moments [03:39] Kevin describes his early leadership style as "a bull in a china shop" — all forward motion, little humanity. Parenting taught him that accountability and dignity are not opposites. [06:25] Jan introduces the Hippocratic framing: leaders should first do no harm. Kevin's version: have enough gas in the tank when you come home. For 13 years, his family got the scraps. [09:37] Kevin's crucible — single father, global pandemic, 100+ hires, pending acquisition — all at once. His coping mechanism was robot mode: high performance, zero feeling. When the deal closed, he felt nothing. [14:26] Kevin says one hour of full presence beats eight hours of distracted availability. Kids only live in the present moment — and they know when you're not there. [17:18] Kevin believes AI's real gift to leaders is buying back time. The question is what you do with that time once you have it. [22:54] Kevin's message to the next generation: don't wait for a breaking point. As Tony Robbins says, success without fulfillment is failure. Structure your life before the crisis forces you to. [28:59] Kevin did the inner work after the exit — therapy, journaling, parenting coaching. That's what reconnected him to joy, not the money. [32:34] The oxygen mask principle applies at home too. You can't lead your family from empty. Sleep, exercise, breath work, meditation — these aren't luxuries. They're the foundation. [34:49] And remember… "Family is not an important thing. It's everything." — Michael J. Fox Memorable Quotes "Career is your passion. Your kids are your purpose. Don't confuse the two." "One hour of full presence is worth more than eight hours of distracted availability." "Success without fulfillment is failure." "I was physically there, but mentally rehearsing the next meeting. I thought I'd cracked the code. I was just losing my kids." "The victory was hollow — and that's when I knew everything needed to change." "The currency at home is connection. It's not sales, revenue, or EBITDA." "You can't get those moments back. You can't pay that back in arrears." "80% of the time you spend with your kids is before they leave the house." "It's hard to be good at work if things aren't good at home — and vice versa." Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Kevin Rice Website | www.ceosandabcs.com/ Kevin Rice YouTube | www.youtube.com/@CEOsandABCs Kevin Rice LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/kmrice Instagram | www.instagram.com/kevinrice_ceosandabcs

Maria Brinck is the Founder & President of Zynergy International and author of "The Leadership We Need: A New Mindset for a Brighter Future." In this episode, Maria argues that the leadership crisis most organizations face isn't a skills gap — it's a flawed model. The qualities we've long rewarded in leaders — confidence, decisiveness, and control — were effective in a different era. But in today's environment, those same traits can actually become liabilities. She challenges leaders to examine what they have never been asked to question: the unconscious bias shaping who gets selected, who gets developed, and whose voice gets heard. She also makes the case that the most important thing a leader can unlearn is the need to have all the answers, because that single habit is what keeps collaboration from ever becoming real. If you have ever wondered why your organization keeps producing the same results no matter how much it changes, this episode is worth your time. Find episode 510 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Maria Brinck on Why Your Organization Keeps Getting the Same Results (No Matter What You Change) https://bit.ly/TLP-510 Key Takeaways [03:36] Maria says the fastest path from command-and-control to collaboration is genuinely knowing your people's strengths and values. [05:54] Maria draws a line between happiness and meaning. [09:24] Maria describes leaving a pharmaceutical career where she was in the top 2% nationally. The titles and money were real. The meaning was not. [12:06] Maria names the blind spot most leaders never examine. A deeply ingrained bias toward traits that once protected a tribe but now limit an organization. [14:31] Maria says our bias toward alpha, hyper-masculine leaders isn't a choice — it's an evolutionary hangover that no longer serves us. [18:09] Maria connects human leadership patterns to what she observed in Cameroon. The species that chose collaboration survived peacefully. The one that chose dominance did not. [23:07] Maria names the one thing most leaders need to unlearn. [25:21] Maria introduces the open 360. It measures behaviors like trust and psychological safety over time and ties them directly to performance reviews. [30:29] Maria on the internal voice that signals something needs to change. Everyone has it. Most people have been trained to ignore it. [33:33] Maria offers one starting question for anyone who wants to create rather than find their purpose. When do you feel most alive? [36:07] And remember... "Our problems are mainly a consequence of a lack of holistic understanding of the man-made system in which we are entwined." — Helena Norberg-Hodge Quotable Quotes "Purpose doesn't show up under a rock that someone else put there. You have to create it." "No one is as smart as all of us." "We want one thing, and we need a very different thing. We need to evolve." "Creating purpose now empowers you. You empower your inner author." "Finding purpose versus creating purpose. That is the difference." "In nature, no one exists alone." "Our poly crisis reality is a direct consequence of the monopoly we have seen in leadership." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Maria Brinck Website | www.mariabrinck.com Maria Brinck LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/mariabrinck Maria Brinck Medium article Aug 21st, 2025 | https://medium.com/authority-magazine/the-new-portrait-of-leadership-maria-brinck-of-zynergy-international-on-which-legacy-ideas-about-bca18c3bea89 Maria Brinck Forbes article Oct 23rd, 2025 | https://www.forbes.com/sites/nelldebevoise/2025/10/23/the-leadership-we-need-why-knowing-all-the-answers-is-costing-us-88-trillion/

Matt Cavanaugh is a retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel, PhD, former Army Athlete of the Year, and author of "Best Scar Wins: How You Can Be More Than You Were Before." Leaders often treat failures, setbacks, and scars as liabilities to hide. Matt Cavanaugh argues the opposite — that the scars you've earned, physical and emotional are the most honest measure of growth you have. The question isn't how to avoid them. It's how to use them. In this conversation, Matt reframes what a scar really is: not a mark of defeat, but evidence of where you've grown. He explains why the outcomes of any serious effort are never just win or lose — they're win, learn, or die — and why leaders who avoid failure miss the chance to build real judgment. He also makes the case that the strongest motivation isn't personal ambition, but a mission that serves something bigger than yourself. For any leader who's been knocked flat by a failed plan, a difficult season, or a decision they regret — this episode reframes what those moments are actually worth. Find episode 508 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Matt Cavanaugh on Your Scars Are Your Resume https://bit.ly/TLP-508 Key Takeaways [04:37] Matt describes a scar as proof you've healed and grown. He sees scars as what connect us. It's the one thing every human shares. [10:24] Matt explains that urgency comes from scale and proximity. When the threat is close, you act right away. He learned this in the Namib Desert with a pack much heavier than the others. [14:58] Matt says leaders need skin in the game. You need one signal you can actually feel. Start by observing and understanding before you act. [16:47] Matt breaks it into two modes. The war of the knife and the war of the map. One is emotional. The other is strategic. Good leaders know when to step back. [22:07] Matt reframes kidney donation as something gained. Not something lost. He found purpose in it. And the real gift was being useful to someone else. [29:11] Matt believes endurance matters more than courage. Courage is short. Endurance stays. Most missions are lost first in the leader's mind. [32:41] Matt shares that kidney donors often show higher empathy. But endurance is something anyone can build. Leaders can grow their capacity over time. [34:41] Matt talks about the pushback at home. His wife was against the decision. He weighed the risks and trained hard. Walking away was not an option for him. [39:18] Matt says find a real mission with real stakes. Do it with others and for others. That's how you create scars that matter. [41:01] And remember..."Desire is the key to motivation, but it's determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of your goal - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek." - Mario Andretti Quotable Quotes "A scar is the spot where you've grown more than others." "It's not win, lose, or draw. It's win, learn, or die." "There's nothing you can't do if you're doing it with and for others." "More often than not, holding on a little bit longer turns out right." "Make good scars. You'll never regret it. The rest is just Netflix on Tuesday." "Urgency lives at the intersection of scale and proximity of threat." "When danger is close, you act in the moment." "Courage is momentary. Endurance is what carries you." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Matt Cavanaugh Website | mlcavanaugh.com Matt Cavanaugh X | @cavanaughforco Matt Cavanaugh Facebook | www.facebook.com/mlcavanaugh1 Matt Cavanaugh Instagram | @cavanaughforco

Steve Cadigan is a global talent strategist, author of "Workquake: Embracing the Aftershocks of COVID-19 to Create a Better Model of Working," and LinkedIn's founding Chief HR Officer. Steve believes the world of work is going through a "workquake" — a fundamental shift that's breaking the old employer-employee contract. At the core of it is a false premise: the idea of long-term loyalty that neither side can reliably keep. In this conversation, Steve explains why many of the world's most successful companies have surprisingly short employee tenure, why the workforce isn't disloyal but loyal to growth, and why leaders should focus less on retention and more on creating meaningful development while people are with them. For leaders navigating turnover and rapid change, this episode offers a more honest way to think about talent and what it actually takes to build teams that perform. Find episode 506 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Steve Cadigan on Retention Is Dead: The Workquake Reshaping Talent https://bit.ly/TLP-506 Key Takeaways [03:40] Steve defines a workquake as any shift so fundamental it renders the existing architecture of work obsolete. [04:46] Steve argues that most employer-employee relationships begin on a false premise — and that dishonesty is where the breakdown starts. [06:42] Steve reframes retention: instead of demanding loyalty, commit to making the employee's time with you the most growth-oriented chapter of their career. [09:12] Steve uses Chick-fil-A as a model for honest talent strategy — celebrating alumni, not just retaining them. [17:42] Steve explains how LinkedIn turned its recruiting struggle into a competitive advantage by aligning the employee experience with the product promise. [26:26] Steve warns that over-indexing on experience and ignoring transferable talent is one of the most costly mistakes leaders make today. [30:36] Steve makes the case that learning must be designed into work itself — not treated as a perk or a line item that gets cut first. [33:53] Steve challenges leaders to ask honestly which companies today are actually building for 100 years — and why so few are. [38:14] Steve argues that AI is being misused as a cost-cutting tool when its real power is making people more capable, not replacing them. [41:13] Steve leaves leaders with one directive: stop waiting for a benchmark that doesn't exist — and be willing to become one. [42:58] And remember..."Nonetheless, the only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." - Vince Lombardi. Quotable Quotes "If you want people here because they want to be here, you're running a company. If you don't, you're running a prison." "The workforce is incredibly loyal — just not to you. They're loyal to growth." "If your talent strategy is not changing as fast as the outside world, your employee relationship is near its end." "If the outside world is changing faster than the inside, the end is near." "You can't have a job today that takes someone five years to figure out." "We have so over-indexed on experience and so overlooked talent." "There is no benchmarking for this moment — you're going to have to be the benchmark." "People want to be on teams that are going somewhere." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Steve Cadigan X | @SteveCadigan Steve Cadigan Facebook | www.facebook.com/thestevecadigan Steve Cadigan LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/cadigan Steve Cadigan Instagram | @stevecad

Mark Crowley's newest book is The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams. For more than a decade, organizations have chased employee engagement - through surveys, gamification, perks, and wellness apps - yet the results haven't improved. Gallup now reports engagement at a ten-year low. Mark was one of the early voices questioning the engagement movement, and in this conversation he explains why the model itself is flawed. We talk about what leaders have been measuring incorrectly, what employee well-being actually means, and why the strongest predictor of team performance isn't compensation, perks, or pressure to produce. It's belonging. If you're seeing burnout, quiet disengagement, or people simply going through the motions, this conversation offers a different lens on leadership—and practical insights you can start applying immediately. Find episode 504 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Mark Crowley on Why Your Team Is Still Disengaged https://bit.ly/TLP-504 Key Takeaways [03:04] Mark explains why employee engagement flatlined. [08:09] Mark draws the line: personal well-being is on you, but how your people perform at work is almost entirely on the leader. [12:08] Mark defines employee well-being, and why wellness apps and free yoga are just band-aids. [15:26] Mark reveals the number one driver of well-being: belonging. [18:36] Mark on hybrid work: packed Zoom calendars are theater. Judge people on outcomes, not optics. [24:22] Mark pushes back on the work ethic debate, and calls out companies playing both sides of the hybrid fence. [32:59] Mark shares the story of his top performer who turned down bigger offers — for one reason her boss never expected. [38:16] Mark's fix for micromanagement: weekly individual check-ins that solve problems before they spiral. [41:30] Mark's closing insight: 95% of human behavior is driven by emotion. Stop asking what people think — ask how they feel. [43:13] And remember..."Well-being is attained little by little, and nevertheless is no little thing itself." - Citium Zeno Quotable Quotes "Once people negotiate their compensation, pay stops being a day-to-day motivator. You've got to figure out the other four drivers." "Wellness is not well-being. A free yoga class is a band-aid." "The number one driver of well-being is belonging — and most leaders never thought that was their job." "If people are feeling supported, trusted, growing, and appreciated — they will naturally reciprocate and produce at levels most leaders have never seen." "We've been misaligned to human nature. That's why engagement never worked." "Nobody can thrive without connection. The highest performing teams are the ones where everybody has each other's back." "The tighter people are, the more people feel like they can be who they are — that's the greatest driver of well-being." "Ask people how they feel — not what they think. That's where the real answer is." "Up to 95% of human behavior is driven by feelings and emotions. That's not soft, that's science." "People pour their heart into surveys and nothing ever gets done." "HR should be the advocates for people — not the C-suite's executioner." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Mark Crowley Website | markccrowley.com Mark Crowley Podcast | markccrowley.com/podcasts Mark Crowley X | @MarkCCrowley Lead From The Heart Facebook Page | facebook.com/LeadFromTheHeart Mark Crowley LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/markccrowley

Mark Morgenfruh is the President and CEO of GetHRready and author of "Never Fire Anyone: A Leader's Guide on how to Lead People not Companies." He holds a Master of Human Resource Management from Rutgers University and built his no-nonsense, trust-first philosophy from the ground up. In this episode, Mark dismantles the two most common leadership failures he calls "keyboard cowboys" (leading from behind a screen) and "happy talk" (avoiding the real conversation until it's too late). He makes the case that trust isn't built through programs or policies — it's built by being a normal human being when you walk through the door. Mark introduces his values-based leadership and disciplinary model — an alternative to PIPs and terminations. He explains why firing someone is more often a reflection of a bad hire or promotion decision than a performance problem. He also challenges HR to stop being the policy police and start being an enabler of real relationships between leaders and their people. If you've ever avoided a hard conversation, put someone on a PIP, or wondered why your culture feels transactional — this episode is for you. Watch this Episode on YouTube | Mark Morgenfruh on Never Fire Anyone https://bit.ly/TLP-502 Key Takeaways [02:47] Mark explains why leaders undermine trust — even with good intentions — by hiding behind hierarchy instead of being human. [04:11] Mark expands into his two failure modes: keyboard cowboys who lead from behind a screen, and happy talk that avoids the real conversation. [07:22] Mark defines trust-based leadership — it's not the carrot, not the stick. It's simply being a normal person when you walk through the door. [14:07] Mark argues PIPs almost never work and terminations reflect a hiring failure. He offers a values-based model that moves people into roles where they can succeed. [16:24] Mark introduces a core framework from his book: employees should create more value than they consume. [19:26] Mark points out that most companies dismiss exit interviews instead of mining them for honest feedback. [20:58] Mark shows why strong relationships let you catch the unraveling early, and why waiting until the fifth or sixth waypoint is too late. [29:49] Mark reframes HR's real role — not a policy manual, not a union shop, but an enabling function that coaches people back into direct relationships. [35:08] Mark challenges companies to engage talent wherever they are, and tells leaders of remote teams exactly what they're doing wrong. [39:58] Mark closes with a clear message: kill happy talk, lead with candor, and act with urgency before the spiral starts. [42:25] And remember..."To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved." — George MacDonald Quotable Quotes "Stop the happy talk. Stuff is going south — let's talk about what's going south and how we fix it." "A termination is a more severe reflection on the hiring or promotion decision than it is on the employee." "Trust comes from being normal. Just having a conversation with people." "You're never going to get in trouble for doing more than you have to do for a person. Period. End of story." "There's some veil that we put on when we walk through that door that is killing us in our work relationships." "You don't call when you just need something. You call just to see how they're doing." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Mark Morgenfruh Website | www.neverfireanyone.com Mark Morgenfruh LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/markmorgenfruh TLP039: Humanizing Our Workplaces with Liz Ryan

Work–life balance sounds responsible. Admiral William (Bill) McRaven thinks it's misleading at best—and often harmful. In our special 500th episode of The Leadership Podcast, McRaven strips away the language leaders hide behind and replaces it with judgment, clarity, and responsibility. Instead of chasing balance, he offers a far more useful distinction: knowing which commitments are crystal balls and which are rubber balls. Some things can be dropped and recovered. Others, once broken, are gone for good. Leadership starts with knowing the difference. He's equally direct about what hasn't changed. Despite endless debate about generations, McRaven argues that the fundamentals remain stubbornly constant. People still respond to integrity. They still want leaders who work hard, stay humble, and put service ahead of ego—whether they're wearing a uniform, sitting in a classroom, or working in a corporate office. McRaven also calls out one of the most common leadership evasions: "empowerment" without clarity. Trusting people doesn't mean leaving them guessing. When expectations are vague, accountability collapses. He explains the real difference between micromanaging and leading—making sure everyone understands what good actually looks like. One of the most enduring lessons in the conversation comes from a command master chief who gave him a four-part standard that guided his entire career: Learn the business Be a good teammate Be a good person Work harder than everyone else No slogans. No shortcuts. He also reflects on the quiet dangers of overconfidence—how believing your plan is airtight can blind you to obvious risks—and why experienced advisors matter more than raw intelligence. This episode is a reminder that leadership isn't about trends or terminology. It's about judgment, responsibility, and doing the hard, unglamorous things well—consistently, and without excuses. Find episode 500 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Admiral Bill McRaven on The Leadership Myths We Keep Getting Wrong https://bit.ly/TLP-500 Key Takeaways [04:11] McRaven reveals he's a journalism major who writes poetry. [05:00] McRaven explains pressure reveals who leaders really are versus who they thought they'd be. [07:06] McRaven discusses how perfectionist leaders struggle when plans fail while adaptable "C students" often outperform. [09:06] McRaven emphasizes humility and surrounding yourself with people who'll tell you when your plan is stupid. [12:43] McRaven explains you never have perfect clarity, so rely on experienced team members who've seen similar situations. [14:44] McRaven explains why every great flag officer he knows is steeped in history and human context. [18:30] McRaven shares the command master chief's formula: learn the business, be a good teammate, be a good person, work hard. [21:58] McRaven dismantles the myth that millennials need different leadership—timeless fundamentals work across all generations. [24:11] McRaven emphasizes universal principles: be polite, be gracious, don't be the center of attention. [27:18] McRaven admits his Iraq failures with sleep and Red Bulls, then shares the lesson: six hours sleep, eat right, never look stressed. [31:33] McRaven explains combat tours leave little reading time, but staff tours are when leaders prepare by studying. [34:05] McRaven shares his biggest reversal: he preached "no work-life balance" until learning the crystal ball analogy. [41:07] McRaven explains technology always changes but leadership fundamentals stay constant: understand people and resources. [44:11] McRaven dismantles "empowerment"—leaders must first set clear expectations before backing off. [49:21] And remember..."Let no one ever say we dream too small" - Father John Jenkins Quotable Quotes "Pressure is what really shows who we are. When you do it repeatedly, you begin to overcome a lot of those shortfalls and you become a better leader." "You better have a little swagger... But don't ever mistake swagger and confidence. If you aren't humble again, that swagger will turn into hubris, and that will get you into trouble." "Hard work makes up for a lot of shortfalls. You don't have to be talented, you don't have to be overly smart, you don't have to do anything. You just have to work hard." "Some of those balls are crystal balls. And if you drop the crystal balls, they're going to shatter and you're never going to be able to pick them up again. You need to know the difference between the rubber balls and the crystal balls." "Micromanagement is not a dirty word. You don't want to spend your whole time micromanaging, but you have to make sure the rank and file that are working for you know what your expectations are." "If you think that you are the smartest man or woman in the room, if you think that your plan is going to outpace the enemies, or if you just think as a corporate leader that you have figured out all the ins and outs of the issue you're dealing with, you're going to be humbled pretty quickly." "The fundamentals of leadership did not change. The faculty, the students, the university presidents, the people I worked for, they expected me to be a good leader. I knew how to lead." "If you want to be good at what you do, there is no work-life balance. The fact of the matter is, something's going to have to be sacrificed because if you want to be good at what you do, you are going to have to come in early, you are going to have to work hard, you're going to miss anniversaries." "Your responsibility as a leader is to make sure the men and women working for you are the best they can be... You have to have trained them well, you provided them the resources." "Leadership is rarely a solo effort. It's a team sport. And you better have a good team surrounding you so you can find out where your shortfalls are and make sure, again, you don't walk into a minefield." Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com William H. McRaven Instagram | @williamh.mcraven

Oli Raison, co-founder of Safarini Leadership, designs immersive leadership expeditions in Kenya that combine cultural exchange with Samburu elders, wilderness trekking, and deep reflective coaching. In this conversation, Oli challenges one of leadership's most entrenched assumptions: that resilience is about individual grit and mental toughness. Drawing on the Samburu concept of naboisho—interdependence—he shows how real resilience is built through collective support, not solo endurance. He also names the single most important question leaders need to ask when entering any new culture or organization: What assumptions am I making? The catch? Most assumptions are invisible to us because they feel like "normal." Oli also explores why many wilderness and offsite leadership experiences fail to create lasting change, and shares his solution: a three-phase transformation framework—preparation, immersion, and integration—shaped by the work of past podcast guest, Joe Pine. This episode is an invitation to question your cultural defaults, rebuild genuine human connection, and develop a healthier relationship with time—so your leadership, and your team's resilience, can actually endure. Find episode 498 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Oli Raison on Why Grit Isn't Enough: Rethinking Resilience in Leadership https://bit.ly/TLP-498 Key Takeaways [04:12] Oli says the leadership assumption consistently dismantled his resilience—the Samburu are resilient through interdependence called "naboisho," not grit. [07:00] Oli identifies profound learning as the importance of having a shared sense of purpose and a very strong shared set of values. [08:31] Oli responds that people have very different expectations of leadership in different cultures around the world. [10:11] Oli reveals the Samburu doesn't have words for anxiety or depression and you'll certainly never meet somebody who knows somebody who committed suicide. Oli notes loneliness is now as damaging for your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. [12:00] Oli responds I think too much comfort can be a bad thing and people get discombobulated easily if things don't go quite to plan. [14:35] Oli answers the critical question leaders should ask: what assumptions am I making? Because we don't realize we're making assumptions. [17:07] Oli explains African societies have a fundamentally different understanding of time where there's always enough time. [20:10] Oli explains the Samburu are very spiritual people connected with their ancestors and you're also connected with your descendants. [22:30] Oli says mindset adjustment happens organically from just being offline during 10-day expeditions with six days of camel-supported trekking. [24:53] Oli describes their three-phase structure: preparation, immersion, and integration with coaching sessions at two, four, and six weeks after. [29:20] Oli responds his long-term impact is about flourishing, particularly helping men dealing with anxiety, depression, and suicidality. [31:43] Oli states his aspiration: how can we create workplaces, organizations and teams that flourish? Because that's when people really do their best work. [33:45] Jan shares his realization about keeping fingers on the keyboard versus closing the laptop because the most important thing is that person in front of you. [35:56] And remember..."One way to get the most out of life is to look upon it as an adventure." - William Feather Quotable Quotes "The Samburu, what makes them so resilient is this concept of interdependence, this reliance, this collective reliance on one another...if my cattle get wiped out because of a really challenging drought, I know that my neighbors are going to step in and they're going to give me some of their cattle." "Naboisho is a word in their language which kind of roughly translates to coming together or unity. And they often say things like 'we are because they are,' that we are all sort of in this together." "This is a society that doesn't have words for anxiety or depression. And you'll certainly never meet somebody who knows somebody who committed suicide...loneliness is now as damaging for your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day." "In the west, we think of time as a commodity. We think of time as something that can be saved, it can be wasted, it can be lost. And as a result of that, I feel that time is the master of us and we are not the master of time." "The Samburu always say there's always enough time because they don't think of time as this continuous thing...time occurs when events happen, it's more relational and it's more eventful." "What assumptions am I making? And this is tricky, right, because a lot of the time we don't realize we're making assumptions." "We don't need to be experts, but we do need to be detectives...what assumptions am I making that might be getting in my way?" "All of this technology is actually causing our brains to operate on a frequency that is not conducive with creative thought at all. And by being in nature, just that alone creates an environment for people to have some really powerful insights." "I think one of the things that people come away with is I really need to take more time out to just contemplate and to think. You know, think about your business, think about your life. We don't take time to think anymore. We're just reacting." "This obsession with hyper productivity is actually just, again, it's all distraction, you know, it's taking us away from just being with ourselves in the moment or being with somebody else." "In 1990, the average man had five close friends and now he has one...every minute that we spend on a device, on a phone, on a laptop, thinking that we're connecting is a minute that we're not spending really connecting with somebody." Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Oli Raison LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/oli-raison-1107aa11/ Safarini Leadership Website | www.safarinileadership.com Safarini Leadership LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/company/safarini-leadership Safarini Leadership Instagram | @safarinileadership

Mark van Rijmenam is a futurist, award-winning keynote speaker globally ranked as number one in his field. Salesforce recognizes him as a leading voice in AI. His latest book, Now What: How to Ride the Tsunami of Change, is available now, and he's the founder of FutureWise. In this episode, Mark challenges the assumption that faster change requires faster action. He argues that organizations moving at breakneck speed with AI and emerging technologies often skip the critical step: pausing to think about consequences. Mark introduces his three E's framework—educate, experiment, execute—as a systematic approach for leaders navigating exponential technological convergence. He emphasizes that while root knowledge becomes obsolete, skills like adaptability, strategic foresight, digital literacy, and ethical grounding become essential for building resilience in uncertain futures. In this episode, you'll discover how to lead through exponential change without losing your humanity, your judgment, or your competitive edge. Find episode 496 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Mark van Rijmenam on Why Faster Change Doesn't Mean Faster Action https://bit.ly/TLP-496 Key Takeaways [02:14] Mark circumnavigated Australia on bicycle in 100 days, raising $25,000 for Dutch children's cancer fund. [04:19] Mark said the most important starting point is becoming aware and educating yourself on all emerging technologies, not just AI. [08:19] Mark explained we discover AI rather than invent it, so we need to slow down and think instead of rushing forward. [14:46] Mark's digital twin can be WhatsApp'd 24/7 in 29 languages to answer deeper questions about his book. [16:17] Mark hopes in 10 years leaders will ask "how could we have been so stupid to move so fast?" [19:42] Mark recommends the three E's framework: educate, experiment, then execute what works best. [21:52] Mark insists leaders must understand technology implications or they'll dismiss great ideas they don't understand. [25:15] Mark said we need authentic human leaders because a machine-run society would be efficient but unpleasant. [29:51] Mark hopes technology convergence will foster humility and help us live in tandem with nature. [36:58] Mark said focus on analytical skills, adaptability, foresight, digital literacy, ethics, creativity, and collaboration. [39:07] And remember..."Our intuition about the future is linear. But the reality of information technology is exponential, and that makes a profound difference. If I take 30 steps linearly, I get to 30. If I take 30 steps exponentially, I get to a billion." - Ray Kurzweil Quotable Quotes "Leadership today in this fast changing world is different from leadership yesterday. The world of yesterday is no longer." "We don't invent AI, we discover AI. And that is a completely different perspective that has a big effect on everything that we do." "A lot of the big tech companies don't even understand the LLMs that they're building. They don't understand how they operate, which is really problematic." "Critical thinking is under siege because of these large language models, but we still need to think ourselves." "It's a bit of a paradox. You think you need to move faster and faster because the world is changing faster and faster. But you also need to build in moments to pause and reflect." "It's nice to be the first to market, but often it also comes with all the R&D and all the problems. Sitting back a little bit longer will help you move faster in the end." "Static knowledge is sort of dead. We need to have dynamic interactions." "AI and capitalism is a perfect storm where they really feed into each other." "If we don't educate people how to leverage AI, how to deal with AI, they might think it cares about you." "If we're going to end up in a society that's run by machines, it will be a very not pleasant society to live in." "We are social animals. We need that social interaction." "History doesn't repeat itself, but it certainly rhymes." "Continually running faster and faster to grab more and more money might not be the best solution in the world where we built extremely powerful tools." "Root knowledge is sort of becoming out of date because you can just look up with the click of a button." "You're not going to have one career anymore. You're going to have multiple careers in your lifetime and potentially even have multiple careers at the same time." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Mark van Rijmenam website | www.thedigitalspeaker.com Mark van Rijmenam X | @vanrijmenam Mark van Rijmenam LinkedIn | http://linkedin.com/in/markvanrijmenam

Mark Steffe is President and CEO of First Command Financial Services, bringing over 30 years of financial services leadership. In this episode, Mark explains why he left his dream job working with ultra-high-net-worth families to serve military members who truly need financial guidance. He shares how military families face unique challenges including frequent relocations, spouse underemployment, and modest pay, requiring advisors who understand their sacrifices. Mark demonstrates how building trust and psychological safety enables difficult financial conversations, comparing financial advisors to doctors who need honest patient information. He outlines his quality control approach for serving the tight-knit military community, emphasizing mission alignment, compliance-first culture, and protecting reputation. Discover practical strategies for leading with mission over metrics, building trust for difficult conversations, and coaching teams to improve rather than simply demanding better results. Find episode 494 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Mark Steffe on When Leadership Is About Who You Serve https://bit.ly/TLP-494 Key Takeaways [04:06] Mark explains he left ultra-high-net-worth services because he wanted to change lives, not just help wealthy people get wealthier. [07:26] Mark reveals how much military families sacrifice, putting our interests and safety ahead of their own. [11:34] Mark notes COVID year one was easier as crisis mode, but year two's transition back proved harder. [14:34] Mark explains First Command uses AI for exponential growth without adding employees, upskilling workers instead. [17:27] Mark credits Simon Sinek's "Start with Why" for emphasizing communicating the why, not just what and how. [21:54] Mark reframes the financial mess as reflecting "how busy you've been taking care of everybody else," not personal failure. [27:42] Mark outlines quality control requires mission-aligned hiring and rejecting the false choice between profitability and compliance. [33:13] Mark tells his "throw strikes" story: His son didn't need parents yelling commands, he needed a coach to fix his mechanics. [38:52] And remember..."Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives." - James Madison Quotable Quotes "Our job was to help wealthy people get wealthier. I wanted to change lives instead." "If Jack's not throwing strikes, he doesn't need someone to yell at him to throw strikes. He needs the coach to walk out to the mound and help him adjust his mechanics." "If employees aren't performing at the level you need, it's not because they don't want to. They don't know how yet." "What became an accommodation for concern of people's health and safety became an entitlement." "We can either be profitable or we can be compliant. The answer is always AND—we have to be profitable AND we have to be compliant." "Early in your career you get promoted for what you do. Later, it's how you lead, how you communicate, how you paint a vision." "Your messy finances are a reflection of how busy you've been taking care of everybody else, not personal failure." "If you take care of your clients and do the right thing for them, the profits will show up." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Mark Steffe Website | www.firstcommand.com Mark Steffe LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/mark-steffe Below are two articles from Mark about his leadership philosophy and communication strategies and the financial challenges facing military families and the importance of financial advisors. ● https://medium.com/authority-magazine/impactful-communication-mark-steffe-of-first-command-financial-services-inc-on-5-essential-e60d3e4855f7 ● https://usveteransmagazine.com/usvm/helping-military-families-overcome-historic-money-struggles/