The SALT Shaker Podcast

The long-awaited New York State budgetGovernor Hochul signs New York FY 2027 Budget into law | SALT ShakerGovernor Hochul signs New York FY 2027 Budget into law | SALT Shaker has arrived, and while it may not have produced major headline-grabbing tax increases, there's plenty beneath the surface worth unpacking. In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor are joined by Ken Pokalsky, Vice President of Government Affairs at The Business Council of New York State, to break down what made it into the budget, what didn't – and how the budget's tax provisions will impact New York taxpayers moving forward. Ken shares an insider's perspective from Albany, exploring why this year's negotiations stretched well past the April 1 deadline, how competing political priorities shaped the final deal, and why, in his words, the takeaway might be: "It could have been worse." The conversation also touches on early warning signs for next year's budget cycle. And, of course, the episode wraps with a lighthearted debate on whether punctuality is overrated or underrated. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor introduce federal preemption and how the Supremacy Clause limits state taxing authority. When federal and state laws conflict, federal law controls, requiring state law to give way. Jeremy and Chelsea outline the two types of preemption: express and implied. Drawing on examples from technology, services, and digital advertising taxes, the discussion highlights the continued importance, and active litigation, surrounding preemption in the SALT space. You can follow along with the discussion using Congress's "preemption taxonomy" chart, linked here. The episode concludes with a brief overrated/underrated debate on the Oxford comma. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, hosts and Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor welcome Lauren Loricchio, Investigations Editor at Tax Notes, to discuss the publication's long‑standing commitment to government transparency and access to primary tax materials. Lauren traces the origins of Tax Notes back to its 1972 lawsuit against the IRS, which paved the way for public access to the Service's private letter rulings. She explains how her team continues that mission through its newly launched monthly newsletter, FOIA Findings, which uses the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and other open records laws to shed light on tax policy and tax administration. Their discussion explores the realities of the FOIA process – including delays, redactions, and litigation – and why access to original source material remains critical for tax practitioners, academics, and others monitoring tax administration and enforcement. The episode wraps up with a seasonal overrated/underrated segment: What are your thoughts on wearing shorts? For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor examine a pivotal moment in any state and local tax controversy: whether to take the next step after a tax assessment has been issued. Jeremy and Chelsea walk through the key factors they consider when deciding whether to challenge an assessment following an audit. They emphasize that the decision is rarely straightforward and often requires balancing several considerations, such as financial significance, procedural nuances, confidentiality protections, and the forum's independence and expertise. Their conversation concludes with a focus on litigation readiness, underscoring why building a strong evidentiary record during the audit stage is critical to preserving options and positioning a case for success beyond the administrative level. In closing, they wonder if buying a "mystery" book at the bookstore is overrated or underrated. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor break down a recent New York Appellate Division decision addressing a longstanding question in New York: Is providing a license to software always the sale of software? Jeremy and Chelsea unpack the Appellate Division's answer to that question in Beeline, who offered its customers a license to taxable prewritten software and nontaxable professional services. Applying New York's primary function test, and relying on the extensive record developed below, the court concluded that the transaction's objective was the taxable sale of software rather than nontaxable professional services. This week's overrated/underrated question takes on a fun one: birthdays. Are they overrated or underrated? For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, SALT Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor kick off 2026 with a lightning round of their favorite SALT issues from 2025. They cover market-based sourcing, tax base expansions, remote worker litigation, and the classification of streaming services as tangible property. The conversation also touches on federal intervention in AI regulation, the ongoing relevance of federal limits on state taxing power, and emerging local tax trends. This week's overrated/underrated segment asks: Are New Year's resolutions overrated or underrated? For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, SALT Counsel Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor dive into the nuanced world of state and local tax penalties. They explore why penalty abatement standards, such as "reasonable cause" and "ordinary care," remain ambiguous despite the frequent appearance of penalties in tax assessments. With limited statutory and case law guidance, these standards often leave taxpayers navigating uncertainty. Their discussion highlights: New York's penalty framework and how it compares to other states Practical defenses for abating penalties, including their self-coined "reliance plus" standard The importance of contemporaneous documentation in supporting taxpayer positions Ultimately, Jeremy and Chelsea underscore the highly technical and interpretive nature of penalty imposition and abatement. For a deeper dive into this topic, read their article in Tax Notes State. This week's overrated/underrated segment takes a seasonal turn: Is turkey really the star of Thanksgiving? For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, SALT Counsel Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor dive into the evolving intersection of artificial intelligence (AI) and SALT. As AI technology continues to advance, Jeremy and Chelsea draw a parallel for tax purposes to the early days of the internet – when Congress passed the ITFA to avoid taxes stifling innovation. They explore whether the existing framework for taxing software and digital products is sufficient to address AI, or if new legislation will be needed to keep pace. Jeremy and Chelsea highlight recent developments in Indiana and Illinois, where revenue rulings classified remote generative AI chatbot services as non-taxable under the states' existing definitions of SaaS and electronically delivered software. The episode wraps with a brief discussion on the potential for federal intervention in regulating and taxing AI, leaving listeners with key questions about how SALT professionals should prepare for what's next. And, as always, the hosts close out with their overrated/underrated segment – this time tackling the world of science fiction. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In the latest episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Eversheds Sutherland Counsel Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor explore a new, concise podcast format that provides updates on recent noteworthy cases. Jeremy and Chelsea examine a New Hampshire court's decision in Hologic, Inc. v. Stepp, covering the facts, the court's holding, the analysis, and the case's practical implications. They wrap up the episode with a new segment, asking "either/or" – do you prefer the vernal equinox or autumn equinox? You can read our summary of Hologic, Inc. v. Stepp here. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In the newest episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Eversheds Sutherland Counsel Jeremy Gove takes a close look at San Francisco's tax system with the help of Eversheds Sutherland Counsel John Ormonde and Bart Baer, Chief Tax Counsel for The California Taxpayers Association. Jeremy, John and Bart review San Francisco from a tax perspective, specifically discussing its various gross receipts taxes, including the homelessness gross receipts tax, and overpaid executive gross receipts tax. They discuss how these taxes affect the business tax climate in San Francisco, and the latest news affecting the city's business tax system, including the reduction of in-office workers. They also cover the current reform efforts in the city and impacts of these taxes at the local level. Their discussion concludes with a breakfast themed overrated/underrated question – where does oatmeal fall on the spectrum of breakfast food? Questions or comments? Email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. You can also subscribe to receive our regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Eversheds Sutherland Counsel Jeremy Gove welcomes back Sacramento SALT Partner Tim Gustafson for another California-focused conversation! Tim and Jeremy base their discussion around a recent article Tim co-authored in Tax Notes State with Associate Sharon Kaur about the California FTB's informal guidance. Specifically, they delve into the work of the FTB, which administers the state's corporate franchise and income taxes, and discuss its routine issuance of informal guidance on a broad array of topics and issues. Tim and Jeremy explore these topics, as well as the effect on taxpayers and practitioners. Similar to the article, Tim and Jeremy also cover two 2023 decisions, Appeal of Minnesota Beet and American Catalog Mailers Association, examining how these decisions may affect current informal guidance and the issuance of guidance in 2024 and beyond. The episode concludes with another edition of overrated/underrated – how do you feel about lettuce on sandwiches? Questions or comments? Email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. You can also subscribe to receive our regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Federal Tax Partner Mary Monahan joins Associate Jeremy Gove for a discussion of Moore v. United States. Ahead of the oral argument scheduled for December 5, Mary provides Jeremy with a federal tax perspective about the case, including covering the case's background, the tax constitutionality issue before the Supreme Court, the legal arguments presented and more. Their discussion concludes with a timely overrated/underrated question, likely debated by many last week – what are your thoughts on Thanksgiving turkey? You can read the Eversheds Sutherland Tax team's Legal Alert about Moore at this link. Questions or comments? Email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. You can also subscribe to receive our regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Eversheds Sutherland Partner Tim Gustafson joins Associate Jeremy Gove for a deep dive into California's market-based sourcing regulation. Together they discuss various interpretations of and proposed amendments to the regulation offered over the past six years, and how the interpretations and amendments might affect taxpayers. They wrap with a series of underrated/overrated questions related to scents. You can read Tim's article on the topic for Tax Notes State here. Questions or comments? Email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. You can also subscribe to receive our regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.