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- 🇯🇵JP · Marketing#1701K to 10K
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Why Human Conversation is the OS for AI - with Sarah Neely
Jul 6, 2026
1h 14m 19s
You're the Top of the AI Sandwich - with Brian Piper and Matt Wilkinson
Jun 19, 2026
1h 21m 42s
AI Forward, Not AI First - with Brian McHale
Jun 5, 2026
1h 07m 44s
Open your AI Authenticity Loop - with Allison Shapira
May 22, 2026
1h 06m 34s
The AI-Enabled Archivist and the End of Corporate Amnesia - with Jason Dressel
May 8, 2026
1h 10m 21s
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| Date | Episode | Topics | Guests | Brands | Places | Keywords | Sponsor | Length | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 7/6/26 |  Why Human Conversation is the OS for AI - with Sarah Neely | Can you build word of mouth on purpose? Few people are better equipped to answer it than Sarah Neely. She's spent two decades engineering the conversations most brands just hope will happen by accident, and she's now the founder of SignalSwell, built to make human word of mouth "audible" to AI. She also leads client strategy at Fizz, one of the few agencies built entirely around getting people to talk. Her premise runs against everything a virality-obsessed business wants to believe: advocates are a personality type you can plan for, and the right story dropped in the right place does the rest. In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle and Sarah dig into what "story" actually means at the level of a single human conversation, the shorthand one person uses to describe you to someone else. They get into why a cactus at a wedding travels further than a logo, how Red Bull carries the same story from an F1 helmet to a truck stop, and the SHARE framework Sarah uses to build experiences worth repeating. Then the conversation turns to AI. If the machines increasingly decide which conversations get surfaced, communicators have to make human word of mouth visible to them, on the channels that actually feed the models. It's a practical problem with a strange philosophical center. Maybe human conversation isn't competing with AI at all. Maybe it's the operating system AI runs on. Listen in and hear about... Why word of mouth can be engineered on purpose, and why "organic" is a misleading word for it The SHARE framework for creating experiences worth talking about What "story" means at the level of a single human conversation, versus a mission statement or value prop Making human conversations discoverable to AI, and which channels actually feed the LLMs Why human conversation may be the operating system AI depends on to stay relevant Notable Quotes from Sarah Neely "The story is that sort of shorthand way that one person would describe a product, a brand, an experience to another person." - Sarah Neely "If you take all the colors that are in your paint kit, you're going to make something that's brown or gray. It has nothing interesting to look at. And that's what chat is doing." - Sarah Neely "You need to create signals for humans and AI, and then you need to swell that footprint through human conversation at scale." - Sarah Neely "The purpose is to remind me to ask more questions, remind me to explore on my own, and remind me to bring it up in a human conversation if it feels relevant." - Sarah Neely Resources and Links Dan Nestle Lilypath | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Sarah Neely SignalSwell | Website Fizz | Website Sarah Neely | LinkedIn Timestamps [00:00 - 03:00] Introduction to Word of Mouth Marketing [03:00 - 09:32] Community and AI Curiosity [09:32 - 15:58] Word of Mouth as Wedding Planning [15:58 - 19:49] Defining the Story in Word of Mouth [19:49 - 24:30] Value Proposition vs Conversational Story [24:30 - 28:35] SHARE Framework for Story Moments [28:35 - 30:07] Marketing and PR Collaboration [30:07 - 35:15] Red Bull Case Study [35:15 - 43:20] AI Visibility of Human Conversations [43:20 - 50:22] Social Media vs Word of Mouth Marketing [50:22 - 53:44] Key Channels for AI Discovery [53:44 - 56:46] Owned Content Importance [56:46 - 01:02:24] Human Conversation as AI Foundation [01:02:24 - 01:04:07] Introduction to Signal Swell [01:04:07 - 01:10:58] Holistic Approach: The Five C's [01:10:58 - 01:13:04] Closing Recommendations (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, Fireflies, and Riverside) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 1h 14m 19s | ||||||
| 6/19/26 |  You're the Top of the AI Sandwich - with Brian Piper and Matt Wilkinson | If AI writes a better prompt than you can now, what are you still being paid for? In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle is joined by two of his closest collaborators, Brian Piper, content and AI integration consultant and co-author of Epic Content Marketing Volume 2, and Dr. Matt Wilkinson, founder of UK agency Strivenn and author of the forthcoming Buyer in the Loop. A month earlier, the three shared a stage at Mark Schaefer's Uprising retreat, building one marketing plan together, each orchestrating their own team of AI helpers to pull it off. Their answer to the question above is discernment. The AI handles the prompting now and most of the drafting. What it can't do is know when an output is wrong, when a claim is weak, when "good enough" isn't. That judgment comes from years of doing the work, and it's the one thing you bring to the machine that the machine can't supply for itself. The same idea runs through everything else they get into: why enterprise AI rollouts keep stalling, why "saving time" never seems to free anyone up, and why the white-collar-apocalypse story makes better clickbait than it does prediction. Listen in and hear about... Why discernment, not prompting, is the skill that holds its value in the AI era What actually went into co-building a campaign live at Mark Schaefer's Uprising retreat The change-management gap behind most failed enterprise AI rollouts Why "AI will take your job" is quietly sabotaging adoption from the inside How going solo became more connected, not more lonely Notable Quotes from Brian Piper and Matt Wilkinson "I think where it really excels is when you tie in expertise, you know, and you talked about building that discernment into the prompt and into the structure of your models that you're using." - Brian Piper "We have this extra time that AI has given us. Now the really strategic part is figuring out how you're going to use that time and how you're going to spend that time in a way that benefits your organization the most or benefits your customer the most." - Brian Piper "Otherwise the world is just going to be full of AI slop. But we can really use AI to increase the way that we think, the way that we engage with the information that we have." - Matt Wilkinson "There is no incentive to work with the AI to teach the AI to take over the tasks that you're doing, because then the AI can take your job. So why are you training up your replacement?" - Matt Wilkinson "I felt lonelier working at an organization than I did now that I'm on my own." - Brian Piper Resources and Links Dan Nestle Lilypath | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Matt Wilkinson Strivenn | Website Dr. Matt Wilkinson | Website Matt Wilkinson | LinkedIn Brian Piper Brian W. Piper | Website (speaking and books) AIreFlow Solutions | Website Brian Piper | LinkedIn Timestamps 00:00 Navigating Job Loss and New Beginnings 03:01 The Power of Collaboration in Solopreneurship 05:40 The Unique Experience of the Uprising Retreat 11:48 AI Beyond the Prompt: A New Approach 20:34 The Importance of Mindset and Discernment in AI 30:22 Operationalizing Expertise and Discernment 38:46 Merging Human Insight with AI 40:40 The Compounding Effect of Collaboration 42:09 Understanding AI Governance and Implementation 44:45 Strategic Use of AI Time Savings 46:49 The Myth of Time Freedom with AI 48:43 The Disconnect in AI Adoption 49:07 Building a Community for AI Success 50:05 The Importance of Change Management 52:33 The Reality of AI's Impact on Jobs 54:02 Navigating Job Evolution in the AI Era 56:26 Responsible AI Integration 58:16 The Role of Education in AI Adaptation 01:01:12 The Future of Job Markets and Education 01:04:19 Teaching Prompting for AI 01:07:32 Creating a New Educational Framework 01:10:00 The Solopreneur Experience 01:12:20 The Loneliness Myth in Entrepreneurship 01:15:20 The Human Element in AI Conversations (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Riverside) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 1h 21m 42s | ||||||
| 6/5/26 |  AI Forward, Not AI First - with Brian McHale✨ | AI transformationbusiness strategy+4 | Brian McHale | Brandience | CincinnatiSilicon Valley | AIbusiness transformation+5 | — | 1h 07m 44s | |
| 5/22/26 |  Open your AI Authenticity Loop - with Allison Shapira✨ | authenticityAI communication+4 | Allison Shapira | Global Public SpeakingHarvard Kennedy School+2 | — | authenticityAI tools+5 | — | 1h 06m 34s | |
| 5/8/26 |  The AI-Enabled Archivist and the End of Corporate Amnesia - with Jason Dressel✨ | AI in businessinstitutional memory+4 | Jason Dressel | ChroniqleHistory Factory | — | AIcorporate amnesia+7 | — | 1h 10m 21s | |
| 4/24/26 |  Your Adult Brain Is Your Last Unfair Advantage - with Dr. Michael Netzley✨ | cognitive abilitiesAI and human judgment+4 | Dr. Michael Netzley | Extend My RunwayIMD+2 | — | aging brainstrategic attention+5 | — | 1h 12m 55s | |
| 4/10/26 |  Judgment Is the New Advantage - with Bo Breuklander✨ | AI transformationleadership+5 | Bo Breuklander | Breuklander CommunicationsProSci+2 | — | AI strategychange management+5 | — | 1h 10m 14s | |
| 3/27/26 |  Why AI Risk Is a Communications Problem Now - with Alec Crawford✨ | AI risk managementcommunications+3 | Alec Crawford | Artificial Intelligence Risk IncorporatedAI Risk Reward podcast | HarvardWall Street | AI governancerisk compliance+3 | — | 1h 10m 07s | |
| 3/13/26 |  Organic Isn't Dead, You Just Stopped Talking to People – with Dorien Morin-van Dam✨ | organic contentAI in marketing+4 | Dorien Morin-van Dam | More in MediaStrategy Talks+1 | Myrtle Beach | organic contentAI-generated content+5 | — | 1h 10m 28s | |
| 3/2/26 |  Naming is Storytelling, Just Harder - with Scott Milano✨ | namingstorytelling+4 | Scott Milano | ChatNamerTanj+6 | — | namingbranding+6 | — | 1h 07m 58s | |
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| 2/13/26 |  AI Can't Call You Back - with Jennifer Kaplan✨ | sustainable growthrelationship-driven business+4 | Jennifer Kaplan | Evolve PR and MarketingCopper Anvil+1 | Arizona | sustainable growthpublic relations+5 | — | 1h 07m 45s | |
| 1/30/26 |  Stockholm Syndrome in PR: The Boutique Uprising - with Barrie Cohen✨ | public relationsboutique firms+4 | Barrie Cohen | Barrie Cohen Public Relations | Philadelphia | Stockholm syndromePR+5 | — | 1h 09m 58s | |
| 1/16/26 |  The Art and Science of Earned Attention - with Stephanie Grober✨ | earned attentionmedia relations+5 | Stephanie Grober | ChatGPTHorowitz Agency | — | earned mediavisibility+6 | — | 1h 06m 01s | |
| 12/31/25 |  AI Debates The Future of Comms - with NotebookLM✨ | AI in communicationsgenerative AI+4 | — | NotebookLM | — | AI adoptioncommunication strategy+5 | — | 13m 50s | |
| 12/12/25 |  AI Transformation, or AI Theater? - with Anne Green | Companies love to talk about AI transformation. They've created policies, distributed tools, checked boxes. But behind closed doors, overwhelmed employees are phoning it in with AI slop, leaders can't tell the difference, and the workforce is too exhausted to learn anything new. That's not transformation. That's theater. In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle welcomes back Anne Green, CEO of G&S Integrated Marketing Communications Group and host of the Building Brand Gravity podcast. Anne brings a rare perspective—she's orchestrated one of the industry's most successful agency transformations while navigating this AI identity crisis firsthand. Having built Cooper Katz from startup to acquisition, then taken the helm at G&S and expanded it through strategic acquisitions, she's seen transformation from every angle. Anne and Dan cut through the AI hype to examine what's really stalling adoption: a workforce stretched too thin to experiment, psychological bandwidth at zero, and the uncomfortable reality that AI doesn't automatically make anyone smarter—we have to fight for it. They explore why agencies may be better positioned to crack this code, what the dot-com bubble can teach us about today's AI valuations, and why the talent pipeline conversation keeps shifting from entry-level to mid-level to senior without anyone knowing who's actually at risk. Listen in and hear about... Why AI acts like a "personality intensifier"—making good workers better and mediocre workers worse The workforce conundrum: people too overwhelmed to upskill, yet facing existential pressure to adapt What agencies are doing differently that corporate teams are missing Why "showing your work" on AI builds trust while hiding it destroys it Anne's mantra for surviving this moment: "Hold less tightly. Unclench." Notable Quotes from Anne Green: "The biggest thing is from the upskilling side, this is a very complex people transformation moment. And we are really crap in this society at upskilling people. We're not good at it." [00:11:32 – 00:11:49] "AI doesn’t automatically augment our intelligence. We have to fight for it and we have to build it and we have to embrace it. But it is a journey." [00:18:49 – 00:19:02] "There is, especially at this moment, a beauty of the beginner’s mind, that person who’s coming in with curiosity and freshness..." [00:57:00 – 00:57:40] "Hold less tightly, unclench the hands and open up the palms. That’s the last thing I’d offer, folks. Hold less tightly." [01:04:38 – 01:04:47] Resources and Links Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Anne Green G&S Integrated Marketing Communications | gscommunications.com Building Brand Gravity Podcast | Apple Podcasts Anne Green | LinkedIn Timestamps 0:00:00 AI Transformation Hype and Restrictive Corporate Policies0:06:43 Corporate Struggles with AI Adoption and Change Management0:12:26 Bubble vs. Real Change—Comparing Dot-Com Era to AI Revolution0:19:04 AI-Augmented Skills—Best and Worst Amplified0:25:56 Human/Machine Symbiosis: How AI Changes Us0:30:01 Freedom to Innovate: Builders, Use Cases, and Organizational Constraints0:35:10 Overworked Workforce, Layoffs, and AI’s Impact on Talent Strategy0:42:11 Talent Displacement, Business Model Evolution, and Pipeline Changes0:48:25 Rethinking Comms Career Tracks with AI Integration0:54:02 Entry-Level Realities: Training, Context, and Curiosity1:01:16 Importance of In-Person Collaboration in the Age of AI1:04:00 Leading Through Change—Kindness, Grace, and Adaptability1:05:48 Wrap-Up, Final Thoughts, and Podcast Promotion (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Castmagic) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 1h 08m 08s | ||||||
| 12/1/25 |  Stop Treating AI Like an ERP Implementation - with Chris Gee | Companies keep approaching AI the way they approached every other tech rollout: install it, train on it, expect immediate returns. But AI isn't software. It's imperfect by design, doesn't follow a predictable implementation curve, and the gap between what leadership promised the board and what's actually happening is becoming a serious problem. In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with Chris Gee, founder of Chris Gee Consulting and strategic advisor to Ragan's Center for AI Strategy. Chris has survived four career reinventions driven by technological disruption—from watching his graphic design degree become obsolete the day he graduated to now helping organizations navigate the shift to agentic AI. His motto, "copilot, not autopilot," frames the entire conversation. Chris and Dan dig into why AI adoption is stalling—because companies are treating transformation like a switch to flip rather than a capability to build. They explore the parallel to 1993's Internet boom and why the adoption curve is right on schedule despite executive frustration. The conversation gets practical: Chris shares how he built an AI agent named "Alexa Irving" for client onboarding, and they tackle whether doom-and-gloom predictions from AI CEOs are helping or hurting the people who actually need to use these tools. Listen in and hear about... Why the adoption curve for AI mirrors the early Internet The $17 trillion argument against AI replacing all jobs (hint: someone has to buy things) How prompting skills aren't going away Building agentic AI with guardrails: Chris's "Alexa Irving" experiment Why "copilot, not autopilot" is more than a slogan—it's a survival strategy The skills gap nobody's addressing and why we need more brains who understand AI, not fewer Notable Quotes "My motto is copilot, not autopilot. I wholeheartedly believe that we are going to make the most progress using AI in tandem—where humans focus on the things that we do well and we use AI for the things it does better than we do." — Chris Gee [04:19] "17 is $17 trillion—that's what the American consumer spends per year. 70 is the percentage of US GDP that represents. And zero is the amount of money that AI chatbots, LLMs, and agents have to spend." — Chris Gee [23:57] "Your ability was never simply in your ability to string together words and phrases, but to translate experiences or emotions and create connection with other humans." — Chris Gee [36:44] "It's not thinking and it never will be thinking. So if we understand that, then we understand it won't be thinking like a human." — Chris Gee [1:07:00] Resources and Links Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Chris Gee Chris Gee Consulting | chrisgee.me Chris Gee | LinkedIn The Intelligent Communicator Newsletter | chrisgee.me (sign up on website) Timestamps 0:00:00 AI Transformation: Hype vs. Reality in Communications0:06:00 Human Touch vs. Automation in Service Jobs0:12:40 Early Career Transformation & Adapting to Technology0:18:00 AI Adoption Curve: Early Adopters and Laggards0:23:30 Tech Disruption, Job Fears, and Economic Impact0:29:10 Prompting and Obstacles to AI Adoption0:34:45 Redefining Skill Sets & Human Value with AI0:40:45 Efficiency, Productivity, and Creativity with AI Tools0:46:20 Rethinking Work: Flexible Schedules & Four-Day Weeks0:51:39 Practical AI Use Cases: Experiment and Upgrade0:55:11 Agentic AI: Autonomous Agents and Guardrails1:01:29 Autonomous Agents: Oversight, Guardrails, and Risks1:08:15 AI Is Imperfect: Why Human Judgment Remains Essential1:14:16 AI Quirks, Prompting Challenges, and Adoption Friction1:19:41 Wrap-Up: Finding Chris Gee & Newsletter/Prompt Suggestions1:21:18 Final Thoughts & Episode Closing (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Castmagic) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 1h 23m 19s | ||||||
| 11/14/25 |  When Communications Can't Close the Values Gap - with Emil Hill | You can't communicate your way out of a values problem. Yet every day, communications leaders are expected to do precisely that. In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with Emil Hill, principal of The Creshiem Group and a public affairs strategist with 25+ years navigating the intersection of business, government, and communications. From guiding the W.K. Kellogg Foundation through Truth, Racial Healing and Transformation to helping Papa John's face their reckoning, from UnitedHealth Group to the National Education Association, Emil's been the strategist organizations call when quick fixes won't cut it. Emil and Dan explore why the consolidation of corporate communications, investor relations, government relations, and research under corporate affairs* umbrellas is the recognition that every stakeholder now connects to every other stakeholder. They dig into why crises reveal values misalignment, why your stock price timeline and your actual problem timeline are incompatible, and why "calm, clarity, and precision" matters more when everything's moving faster. *Dan says “Public Affairs” but means “Corporate Affairs” throughout the episode. He apologizes, especially to Megan Noel, for his confusion. Listen in and hear about... Why corporate affairs consolidation signals a fundamental shift in stakeholder connectivity How a finance background changes how you diagnose communications problems The gap between executive timelines and the time real organizational change requires Why quick crisis fixes usually miss what's actually broken Navigating uncertainty with optimism when change is inevitable Notable Quotes On The Power of Immersive Partnership: "I don't know if you can really be a good partner to any client if you don't immerse yourself in their business, understand who their competitors are, try to get a sense for their DNA and try to advise based on those understandings. If you don't have that, yeah, you're going to fall short every time." — Emil Hill [00:07:53 → 00:08:17] On The Future of Local News: "I am craving a deeper dive into, into local news that the Washington Post cannot provide for me and Mary about what's going on here that's not in the news. And it feels like with the evolution of technology, some enterprising business person is going to figure out a way to cobble together more information and news about particular parts of the country, city, state and local in a way that we used to." — Emil Hill [01:00:27 → 01:01:03] On Navigating Economic Uncertainty: "I think businesses, individuals and communities around the country, I think you want to hold on to your optimism. I think you should get active, but ride it. And this too shall pass." — Emil Hill [01:06:59 → 01:08:08] Resources and Links Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Emil Hill Emil Hill | LinkedIn Timestamps 0:00:00 Introduction – Rise of Public Affairs and Emil Hill’s Expertise0:06:15 Pathways into Public Affairs – Problem Solving and Business Acumen0:11:03 Consolidation of Corporate Communications Functions0:16:44 Stakeholder Connections in a Rapid News Cycle0:23:19 Measuring Audience Sentiment and Internal vs. External Messaging0:29:22 Persuading Stakeholders – Importance of Data and Explanation0:34:57 AI’s Role in Communications – Data, Analysis, and Domain Expertise0:42:32 Brand Missteps and the Limits of Research0:47:13 Real Audience Research vs. Social Media Noise0:53:42 New Corporate Affairs Capabilities – Local Sentiment and Crisis Response0:58:44 Local News Evolution and Technology’s Impact1:04:39 Ideas for AI-Driven Local News Coverage1:08:08 Optimism, Change, and Closing Thoughts1:09:36 Outro and Subscription Info (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Castmagic) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 1h 11m 27s | ||||||
| 10/31/25 |  How AI Changes Your Customers and Why You Must Change Too - with Mark Schaefer | Your customers are changing because of AI. But so are you—whether you realize it or not. Host Dan Nestle welcomes back Mark Schaefer, whose new book How AI Changes Your Customers reveals a transformation most people aren't prepared for. As one of 300 futurists who contributed to Elon University's Being Human in 2035 study, Mark brings insights beyond the usual AI hype. Mark and Dan explore the psychological rewiring that is happening as AI reshapes human agency, empathy, purpose, and trust. They confront the choice everyone faces: use AI to augment your thinking, or delegate so much that critical skills atrophy. This isn't another "AI will save us" or "AI will ruin everything" conversation. It's a balanced look at implications most people haven't considered—like algorithms becoming decision-makers, with conversion rates from AI referrals 23 times higher than those from traditional SEO. Listen in and hear about... The psychology of AI and how humanity is being rewired Choosing between augmentation and delegation in your AI usage Why algorithms are becoming your actual customers The loss of agency, empathy, and purpose when we depend too heavily on AI How AI reveals patterns you didn't know existed through intellectual archaeology Notable Quotes On The Psychology of AI: "No one's talking about the psychology of AI that literally before our eyes, humanity is being rewired. The psychology of human beings is changing." - Mark Schaefer [00:08:13 → 00:08:28] On Attention Spans: "Don't tell me people don't have a long attention span. The problem is they're being more selective. You've got to earn it. So it's not that they have a short attention span. You, You've got a short interesting span. They're abandoning you for something else." - Mark Schaefer [00:15:38 → 00:15:53] On The Power of Vulnerability: "What this world is lacking is a real human voice, friendly, accessible, vulnerable. And think about the power of that. To really be human. You've got to be. Have a sense of vulnerability. But we don't get that from brand voices. Very, very rarely. And think of the opportunity to stand out, to be audacious, to just by flubbing up once in a while, just by admitting you made a mistake every once in a while." - Mark Schaefer [00:27:37 → 00:28:05] Resources and Links Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Mark Schaefer Mark Schaefer | Website and Blog How AI Changes Your Customers | Book (Amazon) The Marketing Companion | Podcast Mark Schaefer | LinkedIn The RISE Community | Apply to Join Timestamps 0:00:00 AI’s Impact: Dan’s Intro and Use of NotebookLM0:03:03 Mark’s Reaction: AI Enables Bolder, Creative Work0:05:16 Mutual Mentorship and AI Experimentation0:07:29 Mark’s Book: Humanity’s Changing Psychology with AI0:09:12 Agency, Empathy, Intimacy, and AI Decision-Making0:11:41 AI Search: GEO, Marketing to Algorithms0:13:02 The Golden Age of PR: Credibility and Authority0:15:13 Attention Span Myth & Content Selectivity0:17:21 Volume vs. Quality: Content for AI and Humans0:19:35 Cumulative Advantage & Brand Authority in AI Era0:21:42 Personal Brand Building: Quality is Essential0:23:13 Earning Social Signals & Genuine Content0:25:47 AI Editing, Strategic Awkwardness, and Vulnerability0:28:46 Challenges for Corporates: Embracing Awkwardness0:31:20 Feelings as a Competitive Advantage0:35:28 Transcendence: Artful, Long-Form, and Human Content0:37:56 Respecting the Reader: Content Length & Value0:39:55 Hopeful AI: Augmentation, Mentorship, Markbot0:42:24 Real Education & AI: Preparing Young People0:42:46 Closing Remarks: Book Recommendation & Mark’s Links (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Castmagic) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 45m 50s | ||||||
| 10/17/25 |  Expertise is Not Authority: Authority is the Expertise People Seek You Out For - with Amanda Russell | You can be the smartest person in the room, but if no one knows you or your point of view, you don't have authority. This "authority gap" is why most professionals struggle to earn attention, build trust, and gain influence. In this episode, host Dan Nestle sits down with Amanda Russell, author of The Influencer Code, creator of the influence equation (Influence = Attention + Trust), founder of Amanda's Playbook, and architect of UCLA's first fully accredited influencer marketing program. Amanda challenges the assumption that awareness equals influence, revealing why measuring clicks and impressions keeps communicators trapped in vanity metrics rather than building real relationship capital. For Amanda this isn't just a theory - she knows from experience. From Olympic hopeful to eager consultant to fitness influencer to CMO to educator, she evolved a systems-thinking approach to influence that PR and communications professionals desperately need. She and Dan explore why earned attention compounds while bought attention doesn't, how AI is democratizing content but making authentic relationships more valuable, and why success requires running purposeful miles instead of junk miles. Listen in and hear about: Why the influence equation (attention + trust) matters more than awareness metrics The critical difference between authority and expertise—and why it changes everything How to build "relationship capital" instead of chasing vanity metrics What elite distance running teaches about strategic influence building Why AI makes human relationships your ultimate competitive advantage Notable Quotes On Influence vs. Awareness: "You can have all the eyeballs all day long. You can have all the awareness, but if nobody cares or you're not influencing anybody to do anything, that's not influence." - Amanda Russell [06:57] On Authority: "Authority is when people quote you in rooms you've never even been in." - Amanda Russell [22:40] On Earned vs. Bought Attention: "Trust is not scalable, but it's transferable. When someone vouches for you, they're transferring their influence to you." - Amanda Russell [20:24] On Building Real Influence: "Real relationships take time to develop and they take nurturing and they take work. It's about building the foundation of a house versus just slapping up a tent." - Amanda Russell [33:20] On AI and Expertise: "AI doesn't make you an expert, but if you're already an expert, it makes you unstoppable if you know what to do." - Amanda Russell [43:30] Resources and Links Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Amanda Russell Amanda Russell | Website The Influencer Code | Book Amanda's Playbook | YouTube Amanda Russell | LinkedIn Timestamps 0:00 Intro: Influence equals attention plus trust 5:23 Defining influence beyond social media stereotypes 10:25 Moving past vanity metrics in PR/marketing 15:54 Three steps to build systematic influence 20:24 Authority vs expertise in building influence 25:28 Focusing on audience needs and relationships 30:52 Relationship architecture trumps marketing tactics 37:49 AI's impact on content creation and influence 41:38 Using AI to amplify expertise, not replace it 45:24 New model for business education and influence (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Flowsend.ai ) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 48m 28s | ||||||
| 10/3/25 |  Beyond the Seat at the Table: Leading Corporate Affairs at Scale - with Megan Noel | What happens when the communications function stops being about messaging and starts being about business transformation? When your stakeholders include 10,000 employees, 94,000 students, 350,000 alumni, plus investors, policymakers, and healthcare partners? In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle reconnects with Megan Noel, Chief Corporate Affairs Officer at Adtalem Global Education, to explore why the CCAO role is a fundamental reimagining of what communications does. Megan leads government relations, investor relations, public affairs, impact and sustainability, and alumni relations under one reputation-focused banner. From managing the fallout of the "One Big Beautiful Bill" over July 4th weekend to navigating AI search optimization and Wikipedia's importance in reputation management, Megan and Dan dig into the practical realities of corporate affairs at scale. They explore how business acumen has become a hard skill, why curiosity beats credentials, and how communicators can avoid becoming "negative Nancy" while still providing strategic counsel. Listen in and hear about... Why corporate affairs unifies storytelling across all stakeholder groups under a reputation banner How business acumen requires being "dangerous enough" in finance, law, and HR without becoming an expert The surprising importance of Wikipedia and specific media outlets in AI search and GEO optimization Why saying "yes, how" beats saying "no, but" when working with business leaders How curiosity and innovation mindset separate entry-level candidates who get jobs from those who don't The challenge of maintaining unbiased reputation when AI search platforms pull from potentially compromised sources Notable Quotes On Corporate Affairs Evolution: "The corporate affairs model is just the next step in that evolution. We used to just communicate what the business wanted. Now we're more than just a channel strategy to push things to different audiences." - Megan Noel [07:30] On Business Acumen: "I certainly don't need to be as sophisticated in our numbers as our CFO. But I need to be dangerous enough in all of them to be able to sit down at a very senior level and have a thoughtful conversation." - Megan Noel [20:29] On Strategic Counsel: "Instead of saying no, but—offer alternatives or other options so that we could potentially get to yes. When you do have to say the no, it feels like you're using that really thoughtfully and people will take you seriously." - Megan Noel [23:39] On AI Search Reality: "There is a perception that whatever question you ask AI is unbiased, when in fact it's pulling information through just a different algorithm. It could be just as biased with other bad data." - Megan Noel [46:56] On Innovation Mindset: "The hiring manager said it was because she showed an appetite to push and to learn and to innovate. That skill, even at the very entry level, matters." - Megan Noel [59:35] Resources and Links Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Megan Noel Adtalem Global Education | Website Megan Noel | LinkedIn Timestamps 0:00 Intro: Change in PR and marketing 5:47 Evolution of Chief Corporate Affairs Officer role 13:06 Reputation as unifying banner for corporate affairs 19:40 Importance of business acumen for leaders 24:39 Communications as a critical business skill 27:46 Relationship between corporate affairs and marketing 31:28 Fostering disagreement and diverse perspectives 35:41 Impact of AI on search and reputation management 41:24 Proactively managing reputation in AI era 49:28 Balancing content creation and stakeholder engagement 53:43 Innovation as key leadership trait 57:41 Cultivating curiosity and innovation across teams 1:03:31 Closing remarks and contact information (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Flowsend.ai ) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 1h 05m 53s | ||||||
| 9/19/25 |  Playstorm: Why Your CEO Needs to Get Dirty with AI - with Sandy Carter | MIT just dropped a bomb: 95% of corporate AI initiatives are failing. Not struggling. Failing. And Sandy Carter knows exactly why. In this episode of The Trending Communicator, I sit down with Sandy, currently Chief Business Officer at Unstoppable Domains, former VP at Amazon Web Services, and the person who turned IBM's "social business" concept nobody understood into a $200 billion market. Sandy's written seven books, been named to every power list that matters (CNN's Top 10 Most Powerful Women in Tech, Forbes 50 Over 50), but what caught my attention is her philosophy: "AI First, Human Always." While everyone's either selling AI snake oil or running scared, Sandy's figured out something crucial. Companies aren't failing at AI because the technology doesn't work. They're failing because they're treating it like any other IT rollout: layer it on top of broken processes and hope for magic. Sandy shares why CEOs need to stop brainstorming and start "playstorming," what happens when you ignore Reddit for three years, and why your daughter talking to Grok about party outfits might be the most important trend in communications. Listen in and hear about: The real reason 95% of corporate AI fails (hint: it's not the technology) Moving beyond productivity theater to genuine transformation Why GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) changes everything for communicators The "play storm" revolution and why your CEO needs to get their hands dirty How ignoring Reddit and Wikipedia is killing your AI presence The generational divide in AI adoption and what it means for business Notable Quotes "Audiences today are ready to move on from 'how do I use gen AI for productivity?' into something deeper: What does it mean for us as humans?" - Sandy Carter [00:05:14] "If your process already didn't work, there's no magic in AI that's going to make it wake up and work." - Sandy Carter [00:18:42] "You have to experience it. You have to get your hands into it. You have to play with an agent." - Sandy Carter [00:27:38] "If you take one thing from this whole podcast, put your company in [AI search], put yourself in too, and see what comes out." - Sandy Carter [00:50:54] Resources and Links Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Sandy Carter sandycarter.net | Website Unstoppable Domains | Website Sandy Carter | LinkedIn Sandy's Book: AI First, Human Always Timestamps 0:00 Intro: Host welcomes Sandy Carter 5:23 AI's impact on human meaning and work 10:24 Why 95% of corporate AI projects fail 15:23 Redesigning workflows for AI integration 20:44 Generational differences in AI adoption 26:58 The importance of "play storming" with AI 32:13 Training everyone on AI, not just tech teams 37:05 Voice interfaces and generational preferences 41:32 Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) strategies 48:43 Checking your company's AI presence 54:41 Closing thoughts on AI and communications (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Flowsend.ai ) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 56m 48s | ||||||
| 9/5/25 |  Why This Former CCO Became Your Comms BFF Instead - with Gab Ferree | Gab Ferree led global communications at Slack, Bumble, and OneTrust, reaching every traditional summit in our profession. Then she walked away to build Off The Record, where communications professionals can finally admit they don't have all the answers. Even the VPs who are supposed to. In this conversation, we explore why 100% of comms professionals are using AI but nobody's talking about it, why reporting to a CMO might be better than reporting to the CEO, and how to stop asking for a seat at the table and start earning it through business outcomes. What We Get Into Redefining Success in Communications: Why Gab left high-profile roles to create a support system for other professionals The Marketing-Communications Relationship: How reporting to a CMO can actually benefit communications teams AI as a Career Amplifier: Why AI won't replace communicators, but will make them more valuable The Future of Work Post-AI: Examining productivity gains and their implications for work-life balance Building a Supportive Community: How Off the Record is changing the game for communications professionals seeking growth and connection Notable Quotes "I don't care what my title is and I don't care what my reporting line is. I am the Chief Communications Officer. When I am the head of comms and I do have a seat at the table, I don't have to be reporting into the CEO." - Gab Ferree [10:08 → 10:22] "But guess what? Everyone just got promoted. Everyone just got themselves a new specialist underneath them named Claude, who produces everything for you as a first draft. And it may be good, it may be great. Good job. You prompted the model, right? You've trained it right?" - Gab Ferree [40:47 → 41:04] "I do wonder for like outside of that, are people are going to start talking about like our executives going to talk about like that they have more time, that they get to spend more time with their kids. Maybe they're not burning out. Maybe they don't need to step away to spend more time with their family. Maybe our careers can be more like a marathon and less like a sprint." - Gab Ferree [52:29 → 52:57] About the Guest Gab Ferree is the founder of Off The Record, a private membership community for communications professionals. Previously, she served as VP of Global Communications at OneTrust (scaling from startup to $5.1B valuation), led comms at Bumble through major brand transformation, and guided Slack's communications during its Salesforce integration. She's known for her pragmatic approach to building comms programs that align with business goals and her belief that vulnerability and authority can coexist in leadership. Resources Mentioned Salesforce V2MOM framework for goal alignment Future Forum research on the future of work Axios HQ survey on AI usage in communications Connect with Gab Ferree Gab Ferree| LinkedIn Off The Record | Website Connect with Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Timestamps 0:00 Intro: Meet Gab Faree, comms expert 5:20 Aligning communications to business goals 11:35 The value of comms reporting to CMO 18:29 Demonstrating value as a communicator 24:20 Using AI to boost productivity in comms 30:52 The future of work and flexible arrangements 37:21 AI as a tool for innovation in companies 44:07 Survey reveals widespread AI use in comms 50:27 Rethinking work hours in the AI era 59:41 Preview of upcoming AI training for comms 1:05:25 Comms poised to own generative AI optimization (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Flowsend.ai ) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 1h 08m 46s | ||||||
| 8/22/25 |  PR is Juggling Knives on Fire While Riding a Unicycle - with Abenaa Hayes | Can you juggle? If you're a communications pro today, you'd better learn how. Just when you think you've got a good rhythm going, someone tosses you another responsibility. Maybe it's a new social platform. Maybe it's a cultural shift that changes how your audience thinks. Maybe it's AI lighting everything on fire. But you can handle it. In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with Abenaa (Abby) Hayes, founder and CEO of Elysee Consulting, who's been perfecting this professional juggling act for over two decades, helping executives and organizations navigate inclusion and social impact communications without losing their footing. She doesn't just help companies say the right things; she helps them figure out how to authentically live their values in a fractured landscape where performative statements can and do backfire often. What happens when the inclusion specialist walks out of the room? Ask American Eagle about their Sydney Sweeney campaign. Or better yet, listen as Abby breaks down why having the right people in the room matters more than ever, and why those people shouldn't be treated like cops, but as strategic advisors who help you achieve what you actually want to achieve. This conversation goes way beyond the DEI acronym to explore what it really means to show up authentically when everyone's watching, everyone's got an opinion, and the stakes keep getting higher. Listen in and hear about... Why "showing up" means more than just posting something and walking away How the fractured media landscape requires meeting audiences where they actually are (hint: it's not always the New York Times) The real reason former journalists are becoming PR's secret weapon Why AI literacy isn't optional anymore—the people who know AI are coming for your job How to navigate inclusion without becoming the content police The American Eagle case study and what happens when brainstorms escape into the wild Why curiosity might be your only real competitive advantage Notable Quotes On the Importance of Inclusion: "To me that's ultimately what it's about. And if I just look at the demographics, both of the US and globally, like we're truly operating in a multicultural and multiethnic world." - Abenaa Hayes [11:40 → 12:02] On the Evolution of Media Relations: "Media relations is no longer the be all end all in terms of not only driving awareness but cultivating credibility. Right. You've got to take literally like a multi step approach in order to drive ultimately what I call brand engagement." - Abenaa Hayes [36:20 → 37:15] On AI Literacy: "If you're really looking to future proof a career, your competency and know how to navigate everything that's coming, you have to actually understand how to use it and also be fluent in it." - Abenaa Hayes [50:03 → 51:50] On AI in Communication: "My contention is that none of this is going to take your job because your job itself is going to be so much different that if you lose your job, it's kind of on you." - Dan Nestle [56:41 → 57:41] Resources and Links Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Abenaa (Abby) Hayes Elysee Consulting | Website Abenaa Hayes | LinkedIn Timestamps 0:00 Intro: Juggling priorities as communicators 5:30 Abena Hayes: Navigating inclusion and social impact 11:39 The importance of authentic inclusion efforts 18:02 Media relations in a fractured landscape 25:01 Storytelling's role in effective communication 31:38 AI literacy and its impact on careers 38:15 The future of communications jobs 44:26 Generative AI and earned media strategies 50:02 Critical thinking in the age of AI 54:39 AI as a tool, not a replacement 1:00:36 The evolving role of communications professionals 1:06:32 Curiosity as a key skill for communicators (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Flowsend.ai ) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 1h 11m 17s | ||||||
| 8/8/25 |  PR is a Leadership Strategy - with Kristel Valaydon | How many of us are stuck playing media relations hits-and-misses while the real opportunities to drive business transformation seem to be just out of reach? In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with Kristel Valaydon, founder of KV Communications, to explore her revolutionary Five Spheres of Connection framework and our capacity to transform PR into a leadership strategy. After 25 years in the industry and 15 years developing her approach, Kristel challenges the traditional view that PR is a marketing function. Instead, she positions communications as a business strategy that creates community around ambitious founders and forward-thinking teams. Their conversation digs into why most communications work is just broadcasting, how the fractured media landscape demands new approaches, and why AVEs (advertising value equivalents) need to disappear forever. Kristel shares insights from working with what she affectionately calls "rebels and misfits" – innovative leaders trying to shift minds, models, and markets while building genuine communities around their missions. What We Talk About: The Five Spheres of Connection: Visionaries, Trailblazers, Champions, Discoverers, and Pathfinders Why PR as media relations is only one-fifth of what communications professionals should be doing How community building differs from audience development and why it matters The evolution of media companies and the rise of niche, trade, and newsletter platforms Why founders and rebels need different communication strategies than Fortune 500 companies The role of AI as a research and strategy partner while maintaining human-first approaches Moving beyond AVEs and impressions to business-aligned measurement frameworks Notable Quotes On the Evolution of PR: "I came out into the real world of business and an agency and I just noticed for pretty much the duration it was media relations. It was very much focused on celebrity." - Kristel Valaydon [6:50 → 7:05] On Measuring PR Impact: "We're having those business conversations and discovering actually no one's measuring this. How are we measuring this? And as it turns out, what benefits are we giving the clients here?" - Kristel Valaydon [7:35 → 7:50] On Working with Rebels: "We call them rebels and misfits, but it's a term of endearment. They don't call themselves that at all, but they're so creative and innovative and they are trying something completely different." - Kristel Valaydon [9:10 → 9:25] On the Role of AI in Strategy: "I love AI from a strategic point of view. It's a strategic, you know, sort of sparring partner for me. It's really testing my ideas and really going, how can we make this better?" - Kristel Valaydon [59:00 → 59:10] On Challenging Clients: "We're in services. We're not in servitude, and we are the experts." - Kristel Valaydon [1:06:13 → 1:06:14] Resources and Links Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | WebsiteThe Trending Communicator | WebsiteCommunications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's SubstackDan Nestle | LinkedIn Kristel Valaydon KV Communications | Website5 Spheres of Connection | KV Comms WebsiteKristel Valaydon | LinkedIn Timestamps 0:00 Intro: The future of communications 5:43 Kristel's journey from agency to entrepreneurship 11:29 Working with rebels and misfits as clients 18:51 How media companies are adapting to change 25:12 The five spheres of connection framework 34:28 Discoverers: Customers and early adopters 41:00 Pathfinders: External partnerships and media 46:43 Measuring success across the five spheres 53:05 Starting with an audit and prioritization 58:11 AI as an enabler for the five spheres 1:04:37 PR's role in building a better world (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Flowsend.ai ) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 1h 11m 03s | ||||||
| 7/25/25 |  The Cobbler's Children Have No Shoes But AI Can Help - with Natalie Moran | We can navigate a crisis, position a CEO, and craft messaging for millions of people. So why do so many brilliant communications professionals struggle when it comes to talking about themselves? In this episode of The Trending Communicator, Dan sits down with Natalie Moran, founder of Comms Futurist, who's built her practice around this exact challenge. After managing crisis communications for millions and working at the highest levels of government, Natalie noticed a paradox: the same people who excel at strategic positioning for others often can't articulate their own evolving value. It's the classic cobbler's children scenario . We've been trained not to be the story, especially those of us with journalism backgrounds. Natalie calls it what it is - we're simply unpracticed at talking about ourselves. But when two AI-obsessed communicators get together to mull this problem, we (shockingly) discover that even cobblers can benefit from AI. What We Talk About Why AI might actually help us do more of the work we love instead of replacing us entirely The personal branding problem that's plagued our profession forever - and how AI changes the equation Those uncomfortable moments when people ask if we're "AI experts" (spoiler: we're not, we're just curious) The shift from traditional media relations to working with micro-influencers and content creators How Natalie went from avoiding LinkedIn entirely to building a following by learning out loud Practical ways to start experimenting with AI tools without feeling like you're cheating or losing your authentic voice Notable Quotes On the Evolution of Personal Brand: "I quickly realized that there is a real market for coaching comms professionals on how to talk about themselves and how to promote themselves. Because by the time people realize they need to do it, it's too late." - Natalie Moran [41:32 → 41:50] On the Challenges of Self-Promotion: "These are smart people, they're totally capable, but they just are not practiced at exploring kind of what makes them unique and what differentiates them until like the night before a big interview for a job or something." - Natalie Moran [47:04 → 47:26] On the Importance of Online Presence: "I think being visible online and having an online presence is the new first impression times 100. You have to have an online presence and it's career insurance." - Natalie Moran [1:06:31 → 1:06:45] On the Role of Micro-Influencers: "B2B companies especially are looking to people like us who have, you know, moderately sized followings but very hyper specific audiences to promote products and services, period." - Natalie Moran [1:07:30 → 1:07:45] On the Value of Storytelling: "I think the premium on being a good storyteller is higher now than it's ever been. That is a very, very valuable skill, I think, in the world of AI." - Natalie Moran [53:32 → 53:45] Resources and Links Dan Nestle Inquisitive Communications | Website The Trending Communicator | Website Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack Dan Nestle | LinkedIn Natalie Moran Comms Futurist | Website Natalie’s Prompt Pack for Comms Leaders | Notion Natalie Moran | LinkedIn Timestamps 0:00 Intro: Trust recession and evolving communications 5:23 AI's impact on personal branding in comms 11:44 Ethical considerations in AI-assisted communication 17:25 Overcoming resistance to personal branding 23:15 AI as a tool for human-centric communication 29:09 Redefining personal branding for communications professionals 34:03 Leveraging AI for strategic communications planning 39:21 The importance of online presence for communicators 46:24 Balancing personal brand with professional obligations 54:44 AI's role in unlocking personal content potential 1:06:31 The future of communications and micro-influencers 1:12:43 Upcoming "Reimagine" virtual event series (Notes co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Flowsend.ai ) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices | 1h 20m 09s | ||||||
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