The Unforgiving60

Steve Biddulph is one of the world’s best-known parent educators. Steve has been a psychologist for 30 years and his books have sold over four million copies as well as having been translated into 31 languages. Ben and Tim talk with Steve about their own transformations after reading his books and talk the differences between raising boys and raising girls. As well as plenty of good old-fashioned hugging. It’s alright to be affectionate peeps! Listen in then try a few of Steve’s practical techniques. Intelligence Summary (INTSUM) 04:50 Steve talks about how and why he got into psychology…. You’ll be surprised. 08:30 Initial interest in the psychology of men and boys and family therapy (at age 24). And watching Dad’s struggling to parent. 11:33 Raising Boys - the End Product. What makes a good man? 14:45 Tim tells his story about how Steve’s book changed his relationships. 20:30 Tim keeps talking about hugging blokes. 21:30 Steve talks about a generation that is ‘thawing out’. 26:30 How different is this generation of children? 30:45 On traumatic stress and cumulation. Advice for parents. 31:00 The importance of rest and restoration as a family. 33:33 On mothers and sons (and Celia Lashlie’s work and book) … and that book is here . 38:45 Boys start off in Mum’s world … and then re-orientates. 41:00 About mentors for boys and building a bundle of masculinity. 45:50 Raising Girls- What’s the difference? 47:30 Girls sensitivity to social cues… and what the advertisers know and how they exploit it. 49:22 Steve on why the world is mistreating girls. 50:30 Feminism and all its gains are in jeopardy. Social media, mirrors, internet and TV. 52:00 Hyenas are stalking our girls. 52:45 Pornography and kids. 58:00 How can we parent more resilient kids? 1:00:00 What about corporal punishment? 1:03:15 Modern boundaries. 1:04:25 Closing words of advice of things to do with our sons and daughters. Changing the dynamic. External Links www.stevebiddulph.com Music By Mitchell Martin … 'Beautiful' and 'Be Myself' ... Available on Spotify

Ashley Semmens is a former Royal Australian Navy Clearance Diver who served for 18 years, specialising in explosive ordnance disposal. He has deployed multiple times, including to Afghanistan, and participated in Australia's military withdrawal in 2021. After surviving trauma from an IED attack, a sniper incident, and a horrific shark attack aftermath in Sydney Harbour, Ashley was medically discharged due to PTSD. Now, he's preparing to swim the English Channel — not just any swim, but on his back, using fins. It's a fundraising mission for the Navy Clearance Diver Trust and a deeply personal journey into fear, resilience, and purpose. In this episode, Ash opens up about overcoming fear of the water, losing close mates, post-service mental health, and how he’s turning pain into a platform for support and recovery. Key Moments 00:00 – Ben and Tim intro the episode and Ash’s unique goal: finning across the English Channel01:14 – Comparison to Sam Penny’s Channel swim (Season 1, Episode 27)01:40 – Ash’s clearance diving background and fear of water after trauma02:45 – Military and Afghanistan service; PTSD and recovery journey04:00 – Ash joins the conversation, starts with early life and growing up in Adelaide06:00 – Competitive swimming as a teen; early struggles and successes07:45 – 2003: Racing against Grant Hackett at Nationals09:18 – Backstroke vs freestyle debate; Ash’s short course gold medal (with caveats)10:00 – Natural transition to the Navy from competitive sport11:01 – Joining as a direct entry diver and diver vs boatswain's mate decision12:01 – Clearance Diver selection process explained — 10 days of being wet, sandy, and psychologically tested14:07 – What Ash learned about focus, fatigue, and resilience during selection15:00 – 2009 shark attack incident: Ash explains what happened to Paul de Gelder17:34 – Ash’s role in the aftermath: trauma from cleaning the boat, psychological impact18:29 – Lingering fear of large bodies of water, even lakes20:00 – Later incident at Jervis Bay: panic before dive leads to difficult team moment21:12 – Realisation of responsibility and shame around not seeking help22:30 – Stigma and lack of psychological support during service23:45 – What clearance divers do: diving, EOD, underwater repair, and land-based ops25:16 – How Ash ended up doing EOD work in Afghanistan despite being too junior27:22 – Becoming the most junior sailor to deploy for combat operations in Afghanistan28:46 – Motivation to deploy: “It’s like a footballer wanting to play a grand final”29:00 – Getting targeted by an IED during deployment 31:30 About the Bushmaster 34:42 Pressure builds up 39:30 PTSD, cracks, symptoms and care 44:00 ‘More to live for’ – side story 49:10 Medical discharge… and there are no protective factors in the military uniform 51:00 Role identity fusion 54:30 Finning the channel- breaking it down External Links Navy Clearance Diver Trust Paul de Gelder – Shark Attack Survivor & Advocate S1E27 – Sam Penny swims the English Channel Contact Us www.unforgiving60.comEmail: debrief@unforgiving60.comInstagram & Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

We first had the privilege of meeting Leigh Anderson on the 2022 Resilience Retreat and have been stoked to stay in touch from there – particularly so given the recent publication of his book, ‘The Paramedic Mindset’. In this episode, Leigh talk with us about that book, as well as his 14+ years as a paramedic. Leigh discusses the ups and downs of the role including not only the amazing lifesaving assistance he has provided on countless occasions, but also those rare moments when his best wasn’t good enough. Along the way, he’s developed some impressive practical tools for grappling with pressure, trauma and failure, which he shares with us as well. 06:00 Leigh’s backstory – paramedicine via a close brush with professional rugby league! 11:15 Ben reveals his ignorance and asks ‘what exactly is a paramedic?!’ 15:30 The human side of paramedicine 17:20 What DON’T you learn at paramedic school?! 19:20 What technique does Leigh recommend to stay calm and think clearly during high stress situations? 23:20 How partners can assist in high pressure situations 29:00 The (often unspoken) excitement of a really nasty job…and how paramedics can deal with continued exposure to trauma 34:00 An alternate (and brilliant) definition of success 37:00 Dealing with failure – and growth from trauma 40:00 The perils of role/identity fusion within paramedicine 46:00 Leigh’s experience on the 2022 Resilience Retreat (on a related note, sign up now for the 2024 Resilience Retreat – 24-27 Oct 2024 in the Gold Coast hinterland!) 48:15 How does Leigh put trauma behind him? 52:00 What is Leigh’s powersong?! (Maybe not what you’d expect – check it out!) External Links Leigh’s website and Insta Buy Leigh’s book or audiobook Monica Lewinsky’s TED talk on shame Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

This week we host Bill Lennan who will teach us how to be 40% better! He was a kit who was introverted and had social anxiety.. so Bill built his own toolkit. As Bills tells his story... Friend: How'd you get that role? Me: Talking with strangers. Friend: What?Talking with strangers is a gateway skill.It enables you to talk with team-mates, stakeholders, leaders, execs, and clients. It also makes interviews way easier. Let’s get into it 04:50 Bill growing up… and Tim needs to grow up (according to Ben) 06:15 Bill working on cars- Ferraris and more…. 07:30 More beautiful car ever made? Ferraris or Lamborghini? 10:15 Life after playing with supercars 12:00 Introversion and anxiety- Bill’s toolkit 13:45 Everything is a system…. And so understand the mental models 15:00 Dialectical behavioural therapy 20:40 Getting use to discomfort- that is about growth! 22:50 Critical thinking skills- is this unsafe or not. How do you look at scary things? 24:30 The value in physical risk 29:20 Talking AI and software. The future? 33:11 The phones not the problem. It’s the absence of alternatives that is the problem! 34:20 Risks and growing up 36:00 Farming and how rural setting change our focus 38:15 Leaders- system, reps and recipes- ‘latticework’s’. The big models for leadership development 44:15 What is kaizen and why does it work? 46:30 Talking people and performance 52:20 Making tough and unpopular decisions- how to do it if we are overly familiar? 55:50 What’s in Bill’s library 1:00:00 Bill’s Powersong! External Links Bill on Linked In Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

Dr Andrew Bengsen talks to us this week about controlling ferals! Animals that is. Andrew has over 15 years’ experience in pest animal management or research and has been with the NSW Department of Primary Industries, Vertebrate Pest Research Unit for a decade. But also we discuss Andrew’s first career in the military- including serving in Rwanda over the period of the tragic and confronting Kibeyo massacre. We talk about luck- both good and bad. And perspective. As well as Andrews ‘role’ (very poor choice of words Tim) in the recent NSW floods, where Andrew’s family home was destroyed by the rising flood waters. 06:00 Andrew’s growing up and not finishing school. Joining the Army 11:45 Operational deployments being rare. Enter Rwanda 15:00 The complexity and challenges of peacekeeping operations 20:24 22 April 1995, the Kibeyo Massacre 24:00 Post Rwanda study … even without finishing school. 27:20 Being a bouncer in Townsville and learnings 34:00 Continuing study and enter into feral research (zoology and tropical ecology). The impact of feral animals and how we control them 47:20 Complexity! 55:00 Talking about the impact of the NSW Floods 1:01:00 The importance of community during the disaster More on NSW DPI and Andrews Work is here: https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/staff/profiles/andrew-bengsen https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-bengsen-b7913a193/ Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify Mitchell Martin- available on Spotify

CONTENT WARNING- This episode discusses mental health challenges and suicidal ideations as well as discussing the tragic death of a veteran. Adam Blum had a troubled start to life, plagued by health issues and enduring a debilitating series of surgical procedures. His school years were a torture. Experiencing health and weight issues and diagnosed with ADHD, Adam faced constant bullying. His self-esteem was shattered under the weight of the relentless taunts and physical abuse of his peers. The persistent bullying continued into adulthood and in the workplace. At the age of 22, while suffering from severe depression, Adam decided to take his own life. But one vision and then a phone call changed his destiny. We discuss forging fortitude, and how, Adam’s life was saved to enable him to become Adam V2.0 Adam lives in the foothills of the Blue Mountains and is currently a firefighter with the NSW Rural Fire Service (RFS). He is the creator and host of a highly successful podcast called True Blue Conversations (Formerly True Blue History). Adam is the author of ‘Easy Target’ which he hopes will help others build their own inner strength and self-worth. 04:00 Adam talks growing up, health issues and bullying- and its impact 09:10 Adam’s social networks to combat the negativity 12:30 Adams advice now to his high school self 15:05 ‘I’m not a victim’- the mindset 16:30 Adam talks about the catalytic moment that triggered his suicide attempt 26:13 The psychological angle and link to Adam’s weight and physical appearance. 30:55 Losing fingernails in trying to get through repeated obstacles… what else was Adam doing outside the medical and psychological- the positive people 35:15 Happiness and people/ social connections. Where did Adam find his tribe? 39:05 Adam enabled and facilitated his own turn around- & the secret to success 41:50 Silencing the voice in your head…. And creativity 47:25 Creativity and inspiration- and discipline! 48:55 Why write the book? 49:33 Ben and Tim are two -thirds of an author 54:00 Talking about Nick Hill who Tim and Adam both knew External Links www.Adamblum.com.au https://www.bigskypublishing.com.au/adam-blum/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-blum-b49249218/?originalSubdomain=au https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/true-blue-conversations-podcast/id1508857453 Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify Mitchell Martin- song ‘Hope’

As a special Anzac Day release, please enjoy our chat with MAJGEN (ret’d) Jake Ellwood. Jake is currently the Chief Executive Officer of the Queensland Reconstruction Authority, a role which puts him at the forefront of reconstruction and resilience within the state, particularly in the face of relentless natural disasters. And he’s definitely the man for the job, having spent a long, distinguished and varied first career within the Army, rising to the rank of Major General. In this episode, Jake talks to the boys about his early days, the highlights of his Army career, his philosophy of leadership and character and what he thinks can make a community resilient. 05:20 Straight out of the gate – why ‘Jake’?! 07:30 Jake’s military background, from a private in the Army Reserve….to a Major General in the fulltime Army (including run-ins with both hosts at various points in his career!) 12:00 From such a long, varied and distinguished career, what are the standout moments? 15:48 Jake’s view on character as an indispensable leadership quality… and the role of ethics within this 27:30 Are ‘kids these days’ less resilient than we used to be back in the day? 32:26 Jake’s current role as the CEO of the Queensland Reconstruction Authority 36:30 What are communities doing well to ensure their resilience against – and during – natural disasters? 42:10 What does Jake do for himself? (Answer: Running!) 45:05 The mental aspects of running – and how to overcome the mental difficulties of running 48:30 Jake on running the 2018 Boston Marathon (renowned as one of the most miserable Bostons ever! Check this out!) 52:44 Jake on Run Army, its beginnings and what it means to him 1:04:20 Jake looking forward to running the 2024 Run Army in a week’s time (postscript – while Jake spoke about doing this race at a casual, enjoyable pace, it turns out his version of ‘casual’ is probably different to most of ours – he came in the top 60 in just over 40 minutes!) 1:10:41 What is Jake’s ‘power song’? External Links Run Army Dr Simon Longstaff, Executive Director of The Ethics Centre Queensland Reconstruction Authority Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

Ben and Tim try to remember what an 'RV' actually is.... reconciliation and reflection, before we talk about our respective travel. From Morocco, Barcelona, Chicago, Brisbane, Hobart .... and more! Then reflections on Jaz Diab, Dr Rob Barbour, Ian Prior and the Festival of Veterans Art. Then as usual talking rubbish about the perfect Easter Egg, Popcorn from Chicago..... and encouraging outright criticism! Music: With thanks to The Externals as well as Ben Frichot Contact: www.unforgiving60.com debrief@unforgiving60.com

Do you believe that being creativity builds resilience? Well this week we aim to convince you so get ready. In support of the the upcoming www.fova.org.au we outline how: when you engage in creative activities, you increase your brain’s capacity for creative thinking, pattern recognition, and developing visual-spatial skills. These skills enhance your problem-solving abilities in real-life situations From Ruth Richards (Harvard), “Engaging in creative behaviours, makes us more dynamic, conscious, non-defensive, observant, collaborative, and brave.” “Everyday creative activity is a path to flourishing”- Conner, DeYoung and Silvia in the Journal of Positive Psychology. Recent experience sampling and diary studies have shown that spending time on creative goals during a day is associated with higher activated positive affect (PA) (flourishing) on that day. The real question isn't "How creative are you?" but rather "How are you creative?" says educational psychologist Donald Treffinger. Intelligence Summary (INTSUM) 03:30 Announcement from Mark Johnson from anvam.org.au 04:20 What’s the problem that means we need creativity? 05:50 What is flow state? 09:40 What does the research and literature say? 10:30 “Brave, non-defensive and collaborative” 14:50 Laminate your neural pathways! 18:00 From Tara Swart at MiT…. Expose your brain to novelty 20:20 What is creativity for Tim and Ben? 32:15 Why did Ben have a guitar in his backpack in the SAS (artists in foxholes) 35:00 SAS Band Tongue Charge play a cover of ‘Getting Away with It in Afghanistan’… and we talk why?! 44:30 Art and identity 47:00 How do we get going? Go join a pub choir! 52:00 Ben and Tim do galleries and museums 55:00 Tongue Charge play another song: “One Crowded Hour” References: www.fova.org.au https://www.anvam.org.au Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: Tongue Charge The Externals – available on Spotify Ben Frichot

Get a medical degree and then do SAS selection – as a Doctor!? Sounds mad. Well listen in. Born in Kenya, Dr Rob Barbour spent his formative years in Australia gaining a medical degree and serving in the Australian special forces including on peacekeeping missions.Having never lost his love for his birthplace, Rob migrated to Tanzania to start a socially responsible and community conservation orientated safari operation and a private community conservation area.Rob subsequently joined Epic Private Journeys as a partner and private guide in Eastern and Southern Africa where he was able to share with Epic's guests his experience and passion for the natural world and local cultures, as well as his belief in poverty alleviation through conservation. Intelligence Summary (INTSUM) 03:05 Dr Rob Barbour tells the story of growing up in Kenya… and how his family got there! School, farming and childhood adventures. 09:25 Ben has to ask about running…. in Kenya…. And he asks a rugby player! 10:20 The Barbour family considers a move to Australia 11:50 What was eating the livestock!? 12:50 Culture shock- from Kenya to Perth 18:00 Rob is trying to work out what to do after school. Study medicine! 21:20 After medicine Rob thinks about joining the Army- and does! 23:40 Rob is a little lax on entry to the Army 26:20 Rob decides to undertake SAS selection… as a Doctor! 31:00 SAS selection in Rob’s experience 33:33 Tim meets Rob on SAS Selection- Ben reckons it was in the Sick Bay 36:20 What tools does Rob use to keep focussed 29:30 Tools can be simple 41:30 Rob finishes his time in the SAS and moves back to Africa (via PNG) 54:20 Discussing poaching in Africa 58:20 How can you control the incentives against poaching 1:01:10 Similarities between PNG and Africa 1:04:20 Rob explains the migration and safaris 1:11:30 Any good movies on the silver screen that show Africa as it truly is? 1:18:10 Rob’s power song…. Or not?! More on Rob’s Adventures Here: https://epicprivatejourneys.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/epic-private-journeys/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-barbour-6b696027/ Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify Mitchell Martin- – available on Spotify

In this special double episode, we talk with Jaz Diab – a mum, a self-described ‘nerd’ and crochet aficionado, who also happens to be a nuclear scientist and the former Commanding Officer of the Australian Special Operations Engineer Regiment. Jaz talks us through her childhood, getting bitten by the science bug and her eventual entry into the military, as well as her experiences as a (very humble) trailblazer for females in combat roles. And along the way, reflects on some of the key decisions she’s made throughout her life and the potential crossover between Broadway actors and Army officers! 05:40 Ben inadvertently realises that the podcast’s highest rating show was the one where he spoke the least! 07:40 About Jaz – early childhood, tragedy within the family and how close she is with her siblings 13:00 Jaz’s parents.. or when an Egyptian guy meets a Finnish girl in Australia…. 15:00 On being a nerd 15:50 Career choices – Army or Broadway?! 17:45 As a leader – be authentic or ‘fake it ‘til you make it’? Plus public speaking as a leadership skill 26:00 When did Jaz get interested in science? 28:00 Jaz’s entry into the Army – and her family background in the military 29:10 A quick exploration of the Finnish concept of sisu – courtesy of Jaz’s grandfather 32:10 Jaz’s experience at the Australian Defence Force Academy 34:00 The highlights of Jaz’s military career 35:30 Jaz as a pioneering female in a combat corps – and how she found the environment there. Plus her work within the Incident Response Regiment (IRR) 37:30 IRR’s transition into the Special Operations Engineering Regiment – and its role in Afghanistan. And Jaz’s experience as the Commanding Officer of the unit. External Links ANVAM – Australian National Veterans Arts Museum – www.anvam.org.au Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

The Externals are 'Back on the Cans' .... as is the Unforgiving60 podcast. This is Season 5. New guests. New material. Same buffoon hosts. #unforgiving60 #podcast