The Vertical SaaS Podcast

In this episode of The Vertical SaaS Podcast, Gavin Savage sits down with Nitish Mutha, Co-founder and CTO of Genie AI, to unpack how the company is building the next generation of legal infrastructure, a true agentic legal stack that combines retrieval, reasoning, and trust.Nitish shares his journey from engineer to founder, and how Genie evolved from a two-person experiment in Barclays Ventures’ Eagle Labs to one of the UK’s most ambitious AI startups. He discusses how LLMs transformed Genie’s speed of innovation, why retrieval and context are core to reliability, and how the team defines real-world ROI in a market crowded with hype.The conversation dives deep into product-led growth, defensibility in vertical AI, hiring for adaptability, and how Genie is creating the foundation for a world where AI handles not just contracts but legal reasoning itself.`TakeawaysNitish’s engineering background shaped Genie’s product philosophy and technical depth.Genie AI evolved from serving lawyers to empowering business users and teams.Retrieval, context, and reliability are at the heart of Genie’s legal reasoning engine.The rise of LLMs unlocked Genie’s product velocity and scale.The company’s 7-year R&D head start led to a £13.3M Series A from GV and Khosla.Product-led growth remains key to sustained adoption in legal AI.Hiring centers on curiosity, adaptability, and ownership.Trust, defensibility, and measurable ROI define success in legal AI.The legal industry is shifting from manual workflows to intelligent systems.Genie AI’s long-term vision: the core legal stack for modern businesses.Chapters 00:00 – Introduction to Genie AI and Nitish’s background 02:39 – Early challenges and the first product iterations 05:24 – Shifting focus from lawyers to business users 08:20 – The impact of LLMs on product speed and accuracy 11:26 – Finding early market validation 14:02 – The funding journey: from bootstrap to GV and Khosla 17:08 – Product-led growth and differentiation in legal AI 20:08 – Driving adoption and defining ROI 22:50 – Advice for building vertical AI products 24:11 – Reliability, hallucinations, and real-world guardrails 29:07 – Ensuring quality and trust in AI systems 31:30 – Inside Genie’s technical stack: retrieval and reasoning 38:33 – Scaling post-LLM: product, team, and culture 43:26 – Hiring and leadership in an AI-first startup 46:25 – The future of agentic legal and Genie’s long-term visionKeywordsGenie.ai, Legal Tech, Artificial Intelligence, LLMs, Agentic AI, Contract Management, Startup Funding, Product-Led Growth, Hiring Strategies, Legal Automation, Technology Innovation Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this episode of The Vertical SaaS Podcast, host Gavin Savage sits down with Simon McCarthy, VP of Enterprise Transformation at ContractPod AI, to unpack what’s broken in Contract Lifecycle Management and what’s coming next.With over 150 CLM implementations under his belt, Simon shares a brutally honest take on why most platforms fail, the myths around CLM as a “legal” tool, and how AI is reshaping the contract stack. From post-signature ROI to the rise of agentic contracting, he offers sharp insights into where legal tech is headed and how operators can actually get it right.We explore:Why half of CLM projects fail and how to avoid becoming a cautionary taleThe true cost of doing nothing in contract managementWhat makes vertical SaaS fragile in the era of AIWhether “intelligent contracting” is just rebranding or something deeperThe line between tools and platforms, and how AI could redraw itWhether you’re scaling a legaltech product or rethinking your enterprise contract stack, this one’s packed with hard truths, practical wisdom, and a hopeful look forward.Key Takeaways:Simon has led 150+ CLM rollouts across major enterprisesChange management, not tech, is the CLM killerCLM is a cross-functional platform, not just for legalBad implementations can cost millions in sunk valueAI + agentic tools are transforming the CLM stackReal value lies after the signature, in tracking, obligations, and outcomesAdoption hinges on integration and user behavior, not featuresThe future is modular, intelligent, and AI-native Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, Gavin Savage sits down with Arik Yelovitch, co-founder of Adaptive Insurance, to talk about the intersection of AI, fintech, climate tech, and Vertical SaaS 3.0. From his early days at Hippo and Delos to launching Adaptive, Arik shares a candid look at the real challenges, and opportunities facing modern startup & Insurtech founders.They dig into what it means to build a purpose-driven startup in today’s environment, including:🚀 The vision behind GridProtect, Adaptive’s first product, built for power outages and other short-duration climate events🧠 How AI and automation are reshaping risk modeling and claims🏗️ What Vertical SaaS 3.0 really means: purpose-built software + fintech + AI📉 Fundraising today vs. 3 years ago: what’s changed, and how to raise smarter💸 Secrets to hiring top-tier talent on a startup budget (and what comp looks like early)🚀 The vision behind GridProtect, Adaptive’s first product, built for power outages and other short-duration climate events📉 Fundraising in 2025 vs. 2021: what’s changed, and what still works🔧 The rise of "vibe coding" and AI-assisted development🌱 Why Adaptive sees climate insurance as the ultimate vertical for Vertical SaaS 3.0Whether you're building in Insurtech, investing in climate resilience, or scaling a startup, this is a must-listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this week's episode of The Vertical SaaS Podcast, host Gavin Savage sits down with Kim Simmonds, founder and CEO of Law 365 and Cloud Contracts 365, to explore the intersection of legal tech, AI, and responsible innovation. Kim shares her journey from M&A lawyer to building Law 365, a subscription-based law firm serving Microsoft Partners, and launching Cloud Contracts 365 in 2023, an AI-powered platform tackling contract chaos for businesses at just £3.50/day. Together, they dive into the shift from broken billable hours to productized legal services, the role of Agentic AI in legal workflows, and the challenges and opportunities of democratizing legal access. Kim also discusses growth strategies, AI regulation, and why maintaining a human touch remains vital in the evolving legal landscape. Perfect for lawyers, legal tech enthusiasts, SaaS operators, and founders, this conversation reveals how Kim is redefining what legal can be. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

SummaryIn this episode of The Vertical SaaS Podcast, Gavin Savage sits down with Ned Gannon, Co-Founder and CEO of Coheso, an AI-powered legaltech startup transforming how in-house legal and compliance teams work. Ned shares his journey from corporate attorney to legaltech entrepreneur, including his successful exit from previous startup called eBrevia, before launching Coheso.Together, they explore how AI, especially agentic AI is reshaping legal operations, the evolving metrics in the space, and why domain expertise is still key. Ned also opens up about the challenges of building a legaltech company today versus a decade ago, and how Coheso acts as a legal front door for businesses, streamlining workflows and capturing tribal knowledge that helps legal teams move faster with confidence.Whether you're a founder, in-house counsel, or tech-curious legal pro, this episode offers a front-row seat to the changing metrics, team dynamics, and future of AI in legal.Key WordsLegalTech, AI, Legal Innovation, Agentic AI, Legal SaaS, In-house Counsel, Legal Automation, Cohiso, eBrevia, Legal Compliance, Entrepreneurship, Technology in Law Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of The Vertical SaaS Podcast, host Gavin Savage sits down with Frederik Muelke, Head of Alternative Assets at Robin AI, a Legaltech startup leveraging AI to automate contract reviews, reduce costs, and empower legal teams.Frederik shares his journey from corporate law to entrepreneurship, reflecting on key lessons from founding his first startup, Finzu, and the critical role of founder-market fit and talent management. He and Gavin dive into Robin AI’s mission to simplify contracts through AI, tackling the challenges of trust and adoption in legal workflows.The conversation explores AI’s transformative impact on the legal industry - how it’s leveling the playing field for smaller firms, reshaping legal workflows, and challenging traditional models like billable hours. Frederik also offers insights into the evolving M&A landscape for 2024, emphasizing the need for specificity in legal tech solutions and the power of strategic partnerships in a rapidly changing industry.A must-listen for anyone interested in the future of AI in legal tech and beyond. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

SummaryIn this episode of the Vertical SaaS Podcast, Host Gavin Savage interviews Blakely, the Chief Strategy Officer of Redo, who shares his extensive journey through the tech and startup landscape. Blakely discusses his transition from a corporate environment at Dell to the fast-paced world of startups, highlighting his experiences at Instructure and Divvy, where he played pivotal roles in scaling these companies.He also introduces Redo, a new venture focused on simplifying e-commerce returns, and shares insights on the current market dynamics affecting startups, particularly in relation to interest rates and innovation. In this conversation, Blakely discusses his multifaceted role at Redo, emphasizing the importance of product management, finance, and operations in a startup environment. He shares insights on identifying companies poised for rapid scaling, the nuances of vertical versus horizontal SaaS, and the challenges of product expansion.Additionally, he offers valuable advice for career advancement in startups, highlighting the significance of impact, leadership, and understanding business value drivers.TakeawaysBlakely transitioned from a corporate job to startups for a faster pace.His career began at Dell, but he found fulfillment in startups.At Instructure, he proposed a go-to-market strategy that was implemented immediately.Scaling a startup feels chaotic, like a rocket ship losing parts mid-flight.Having 'scar tissue' from past experiences helps in navigating challenges.The importance of connections in job searching cannot be overstated.The startup environment is currently challenging but fosters innovation.Redo aims to simplify e-commerce returns without charging SaaS fees.Market dynamics have shifted, making it harder for startups to thrive.Bundling services is becoming more common as money becomes scarce. My role has become something like if product, operations, and finance had a baby.We think of ourselves almost like a VC investing in these different startups.I care a ton about the people that are involved.You can't just be better, you have to be different.It's a true meritocracy. Best people, more money, more equities, please stay.You need to crush it.If you want to grow a lot in your career, you got to hitch your wagon to the really good leader.We're building a platform that's going to be multiple products.You need to understand what matters to the business.I have seven mini CEOs at the company. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

SummaryIn this episode of the Vertical SaaS Podcast, hosts Gavin Savage and Ben Brown welcome Eli Bozeman, Assistant Vice President of Product at SageSure. The conversation explores Eli's and Ben's career journeys, insights into the Insurance market, and the evolution from Insurtech 1.0 to 2.0. They discuss the challenges of product growth in the insurance industry, the importance of accuracy, and the innovative approaches at SageSure to enhance the insurance experience. The episode highlights the significance of collaboration between technology and product teams in driving success in the InsureTech space. In this conversation, Eli and Ben discuss the intricacies of product leadership in the insurance industry, focusing on the importance of building proprietary models, maintaining team culture, and balancing speed with innovation. They share insights on growth challenges, the significance of curiosity in high-performing teams, and the evolving landscape of insurance technology. The discussion highlights the need for collaboration between product and engineering teams and the excitement surrounding the industry's future as it embraces new technologies like AI.TakeawaysEli Bozeman has a diverse background in tech and insurance.Ben Brown transitioned from investment banking to tech leadership.Insurtech 2.0 is characterized by experienced disruptors.Understanding industry complexities is crucial for growth.Direct-to-consumer models can attract the wrong risk.SageSure is focused on innovative insurance product development.Accuracy in insurance metrics is vital for success.Collaboration between tech and product teams enhances outcomes.AI is being integrated to improve insurance processes.The insurance industry is evolving with new technologies and approaches. The insurance industry requires a balance of proprietary models and vendor evaluations.Maintaining a strong team culture is critical for innovation.Speed and iteration are essential in product development.Creating a framework for learning helps in overcoming fears of failure.Trust between product and engineering teams fosters collaboration.Curiosity and a desire to solve difficult problems are key traits of high performers.Insurance is evolving and can leverage machine learning effectively.Retention of team members is as important as hiring new talent.Educating team members about industry nuances is crucial for success.The future of insurance is promising with advancements in technology.KeywordsVertical SaaS, Insurtech, product innovation, insurance technology, growth metrics, insurance industry, technology leadership, collaboration, insurance, product leadership, innovation, team culture, machine learning, growth, collaboration, AI, high performance, industry insights Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

SummaryIn this episode of the Vertical SaaS podcast, Gavin Savage interviews Karl Seelbach, a legal tech entrepreneur and managing partner of a law firm. They discuss Karl's journey from a small-town upbringing in Texas to founding Skribe AI, a company focused on modernising the legal industry through technology. The conversation explores the challenges and opportunities in legaltech, the impact of AI on the legal profession, and the future of legal services. Karl shares insights on the importance of education in technology adoption and the potential for significant cost savings and efficiency improvements in legal processes.TakeawaysKarl Seelbach's journey from a small town to legal tech entrepreneur.The importance of technology adoption in the legal industry.Skribe AI aims to modernise how attorneys capture and analyse testimony.AI can significantly reduce costs and time in legal processes.Education is crucial for successful technology implementation in law firms.The legal tech market is largely untapped and presents significant opportunities.COVID-19 accelerated the adoption of technology in the legal sector.Plaintiff attorneys have a different incentive structure compared to defense attorneys.AI can assist in claims management and improve efficiency for insurance companies.The future of legal tech will involve a balance between human touch and automationKeywordsLegal Tech, Skribe AI, AI in Law, Technology Adoption, Legal Disposition, Legal Innovation, Personal Injury Law, Legal Industry Trends, Future of Law, Technology in Legal Services, Legal Automation Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

SummaryIn this engaging conversation, Gavin Savage interviews Nic Poulos, founder and managing partner at Euclid Ventures, discussing the evolution and significance of vertical SaaS. Nic shares his journey from investment banking to becoming a prominent investor in vertical software, highlighting the growing demand for specialized software solutions in various industries. The discussion covers the differences between vertical and horizontal SaaS, current trends in the market, common pitfalls for startups, and the importance of domain expertise in building successful teams. Nic emphasizes the need for founders to deeply understand the problems they are solving and the value of validating customer pain points before seeking investment.TakeawaysNic Poulos is a serial vertical software investor.Vertical SaaS focuses on specialized software for specific industries.The cost to build software has drastically decreased over the years.Vertical software companies often have higher sustainability of growth.Understanding the current solutions in the market is crucial for founders.Domain expertise is essential for success in vertical SaaS.Velocity in execution is key for early-stage startups.Hiring industry experts can enhance communication with customers.Investors look for a deep understanding of the problem being solved.Validating customer pain points before building product is vitalKeywordsVertical SaaS, Nic Poulos, software investment, startup mistakes, domain expertise, team building, venture capital, industry trends, B2B, B2BC software, technology innovation Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.