Thriving Leaders Podcast

When two priorities both matter, why do leaders feel such pressure to choose one? The day-to-day work needs attention, but so does the future. A team needs room to act, but it also needs direction. Wendy Smith has spent more than 25 years studying these recurring tensions. She joins me to explore why an either/or decision can feel so satisfying in the moment, yet leave leaders facing the same problem again. We look at what both/and thinking asks of us in practice, including the conversations that become possible when different teams see a challenge from different sides. Wendy brings examples from organisational change, strategy and AI, and challenges the idea that holding two priorities means settling for a halfway compromise. In this episode, we explore: Why old and new priorities continue to compete as organisations change The four common organisational paradoxes Wendy studies How to spot the either/or question hidden in a difficult decision Why both/and thinking asks for more than meeting in the middle How listening reveals what each side actually needs The tension between business as usual and future strategy What AI reveals about fear, emotion and human judgement How to separate competing demands before connecting them Why a shared goal matters across organisational divides How guardrails and measures help sustain two priorities What Wendy means by balancing rather than finding a fixed balance Wendy offers a practical starting point: name the tension, explore each side properly, then ask how you might accommodate both. It will not produce an easy answer to every decision. It can open up options that a quick choice would have kept out of view. If your team keeps circling the same choice, this conversation may help you ask a better question. Resources mentioned: Both/And Thinking by Wendy Smith and Maryanne Lewis Barry Johnson’s Polarity Map Explore more leadership and team conversations: https://www.youtube.com/@thrivingculture Subscribe for practical conversations about leading people and helping teams thrive. #Leadership #BothAndThinking #ThrivingTeams

Why do so many strategies sound compelling in the boardroom but struggle to shape what people actually do?In this episode of the Thriving Leaders Podcast, I speak with Alicia McKay, an Aotearoa New Zealand-based writer, speaker and strategist who has spent 15 years advising leaders on strategy, change and leadership. She is also the author of From Strategy to Action, You Don’t Need an MBA and Local Legends.In this direct and thought-provoking conversation, Alicia and I challenge familiar assumptions about strategy, leadership and collaboration. We also examine what may be lost when judgement and decision-making are increasingly handed to automated systems.If you have ever watched a strong strategy lose momentum after the planning session, this conversation will give you a different way to understand why—and what you can do about it.In this episode, we cover:How strategy is different in local government and the public sector than in corporate organisationsWhy strategy often loses momentum after the planning processHow strategic thinking shows up in everyday leadershipWhat leaders may misunderstand about people and changeThe transition from subject-matter expert to strategic leaderWhat gets in the way of cross-functional collaborationHow organisational systems influence behaviourThe relationship between trust, agency and accountabilityWhat automation could mean for human judgementWatch the full episode to hear Alicia’s refreshingly direct perspective on what it really takes to turn strategy into action.About Alicia McKayAlicia McKay is a writer, speaker and strategist based in Aotearoa New Zealand. She works with executive and elected leaders to improve strategic thinking, decision-making and leadership in complex environments.Alicia is the author of:From Strategy to Action: A Guide to Getting Shit Done in the Public SectorYou Don’t Need an MBA: Leadership Lessons That Cut Through the CrapLocal Legends: How to Make a Difference in Local GovernmentResources and linksAlicia McKay’s websiteAbout Alicia McKayAlicia McKay’s booksYou Don’t Need an MBAFrom Strategy to ActionSubscribe to the Thriving Leaders Podcast for practical conversations about leadership, team performance and creating thriving workplace cultures.

What if the answers to some of your biggest leadership challenges are already sitting inside your team, but nobody is saying them out loud?In this episode, I sit down with Jeff Wetzler, founder of Ask Approach, co-founder of Transcend, former Chief Learning Officer at Teach For America, and author of Ask: Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People Around You for Unexpected Breakthroughs in Leadership and Life.The reality is that the people around us know things we don't. They have ideas, perspectives, concerns, and feedback that could help us make better decisions, avoid mistakes, and navigate challenges more effectively. Yet so often those insights never get shared.Jeff has spent decades helping leaders understand why this happens and, more importantly, what we can do about it. In this conversation, we explore why people hold back what they're really thinking, how authority changes conversations, and the practical habits leaders can develop to hear more of what matters.We also dive into curiosity, listening, psychological safety, feedback, and what Jeff calls "the unspokens" that exist in every team and organisation.In this episode, we cover:Why people hold back feedback, concerns, ideas, and perspectives from leadersThe hidden cost of the "unspokens" inside teams and organisationsHow power and authority make it harder for leaders to hear the truthThe four things leaders are least likely to hear from their peopleJeff's ASK Approach and the five practices that unlock collective intelligenceWhy curiosity is a choice, not a personality traitHow to create environments that feel safe enough for people to speak upThe difference between quality questions and the questions that shut down learningWhy most leaders think they're better listeners than they actually areHow to encourage more honest feedback, especially as you become more seniorThe role AI can play in helping leaders become more curious, reflective, and effectiveMany of the answers we are looking for already exist somewhere in the organisation. The challenge is that people don't always tell us what they know, what they're worried about, or what they're seeing.My favourite part was Jeff's perspective on curiosity. We often think of curiosity as something you either have or you don't. Jeff challenges that idea and offers a much more practical way of thinking about it.I also found myself reflecting on how easy it is, particularly when we're busy or under pressure, to move too quickly into problem-solving mode. Sometimes the most valuable thing we can do as leaders is pause long enough to ask another question.If you're leading a team and want to hear more of what people are really thinking, I think you'll get a lot from this conversation.

If you've been feeling stretched, reactive, or like you're constantly doing more without actually moving the needle, this episode is for you.I'm joined by Jennifer Garvey Berger, CEO and co-founder of Cultivating Leadership, Harvard-educated developmental psychologist, and one of the world's leading thinkers on adult development, complexity, and leadership. Jennifer is the author of four widely acclaimed books: Changing on the Job, Simple Habits for Complex Times, Unlocking Leadership Mind Traps, and Unleash Your Complexity Genius. I first came across her work through colleagues at Harvard Kennedy School, and I've been a fan ever since.This conversation goes deep on why complexity isn't just a business problem, it's a nervous system problem, and what leaders can actually do about it. We explore how polarity thinking reframes some of the most persistent tensions in organisations, why psychological safety isn't about comfort, and what it means to lead with embodied intelligence in a world where AI is changing everything. So many nuggests of gold in this episode.In this episode, we cover:Why complexity is experienced as a threat by the nervous system, and how that drives leaders and teams into reactive busyness instead of purposeful actionThe honest bind leaders are in right now: needing to project hope while being unable to guarantee anythingWhat it really means to lead from the body, not just the head, and why Jennifer shifted from being a sceptic to a convertThe power of polarity thinking: how holding two interdependent goods at once transforms cross-functional collaboration and team dynamicsWhy psychological safety is not about comfort, it's about the capacity to be in discomfort togetherHow AI is changing the way we connect (including why nervous systems can't co-regulate through a screen the way they can in person)What thriving teams actually have in common: genuine liking, not just functional respectI loved this conversation for so many reasons, but the thing that really resonated with me was Jennifer's reframe of busyness. When leaders and team members say 'I'm just so busy right now', she suggests what they're really saying is 'I'm afraid.' And busyness becomes the modern response to a frightening world.It connects to something I see constantly in my work: leaders who are doing a lot, but not necessarily doing the right things. Pushing harder on what no longer works. Jennifer's reminder that doubling down is often a fear response, not a strategy, is one I'll be taking into my work with teams.Teams thrive when leaders slow down enough to actually show up.If this conversation sparked something for you, share it with a leader in your world who's navigating complexity right now. And if you haven't already, follow the Thriving Leaders Podcast so you never miss an episode.

What if your team is using the same words, but imagining completely different futures? This conversation is a powerful reminder that alignment is not about sameness, it is about helping people see clearly, think together, and move forward with intention.In this episode, I’m joined by Rebecca Sutherns, trusted advisor, bestselling author, master facilitator, certified coach, and someone I deeply admire for the way she helps people unlock courage, clarity and momentum. With more than 25 years of experience, Rebecca works with mission-driven organisations to help leaders reimagine what’s next and get aligned on what matters most.In our conversation, we explore what it really takes to get people “watching the same movie” in teams and organisations. Rebecca shares why strategy needs more imagination, why leaders need to get clearer about the problem they are actually solving, and why waiting for perfect information can become the very thing that keeps teams stuck.This is such an important conversation right now because so many leaders are navigating complexity, competing perspectives, and decision fatigue. Rebecca brings a grounded, practical lens to all of it, and I think you’ll walk away with fresh ways to lead better conversations and better decisions. Let’s dive in.In this episode, we cover: Why teams can use the same words but still be picturing completely different futuresHow to create a vivid shared vision, not just another polished vision statementWhy “what problem are we solving?” is one of the most important questions a leader can askHow to clarify decision-making criteria before people get attached to their preferred solutionWhy waiting for full information is often just a stall tactic in disguiseHow facilitation slows teams down at the beginning so they can move faster laterWhy thriving teams do not just predict the future, they help create itI loved this conversation because Rebecca puts language to something so many leaders experience but struggle to name. My favorite part was her reminder that alignment is not about making everyone the same, it is about making thinking visible so people can understand each other, challenge well, and move forward with intention.The future does not just happen to teams. The strongest teams help shape it. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a leader, facilitator or executive team who is working through complexity and trying to make better decisions together.

Many leaders know collaboration matters, but far fewer have figured out how to make it work across silos, competing priorities, and complex stakeholder relationships. In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Heidi Gardner, Distinguished Fellow at Harvard Law School, former Harvard Business School professor, Thinkers50 ranked thought leader, and co-author of Smart Collaboration and Smarter Collaboration. In this conversation, we explore what smarter collaboration really looks like in today’s workplace, and why working across boundaries is both more necessary and more difficult than ever. Heidi shares practical insights on trust, healthy conflict, over-collaboration, stakeholder alignment, and the leadership behaviours that create the conditions for innovation and high performance. In this episode, we cover: Why hyper-specialisation makes collaboration harder, just as the problems leaders face become more complex and multidisciplinary The importance of starting with a shared goal and being clear on each person’s role How over-collaboration drains time, energy, and trust in the very idea of collaboration Why conflict is not the problem, but unmanaged conflict is The difference between competence trust and character trust, and why both matter How leaders can create space for challenge, curiosity, and better decision-making under pressure Navigating collaboration within your team and cross-functional collaboration Practical ways to align with stakeholders, navigate conflicting priorities, and communicate progress toward big goals I loved Heidi’s reminder that collaboration is not about involving everyone in everything. It is about being intentional, drawing on the right expertise at the right moment, and creating enough trust for people to challenge each other without tipping into relationship conflict. Which is especially important in the complex environments teams are operating in. Smarter collaboration is not more collaboration, it’s better collaboration. If this episode resonated, share it with a leader or team who are navigating silos, stakeholder tension, or the complexity of cross-functional work. Links: ⁠Smart Collaboration⁠⁠Smarter Collaboration ⁠⁠Collaborating with GenAI: Lessons from Heineken’s Use of the “PowerBot”⁠⁠Using GenAI as a Collaborative Teammate

There is a lot of noise right now about artificial intelligence. Excitement. Fear. Big predictions about job losses. Quiet uncertainty in leadership teams. If you’re wondering what AI actually means for your team, your culture, and your role as a leader, this episode is essential listening. I’m joined by Dawid Naude, Founder and CEO of Pathfinder, Australia’s leading AI accelerator and an official service partner to OpenAI across Australia and New Zealand. Dawid is one of the region’s most respected AI educators, known for translating complex technology into real world business impact. AI is not just changing what teams can do, it is changing what leadership exposes. Dawid unpacks what’s just shifted, AI agents that can act inside your tools, and why this will amplify your leadership habits, good and bad. We also explore the risks most people are not talking about yet, and what thriving teams will need if they want to stay human in a world that is accelerating. This is a grounded and practical conversation about leading through one of the biggest shifts of our time. In this episode, we cover: (00:00) – Introduction (00:45) – Introduction to Dawid Naude (03:59) – The rise of AI agents and what “AI with hands” means for workflows and decision-making (08:13) – Whether entry-level white-collar jobs are really at risk, and what history teaches us about automation (11:16) – Why human judgement, curiosity, and accountability will become even more valuable (12:13) – Why AI is no longer just a productivity tool, but a strategic thought partner for leaders (19:54) – Data privacy myths and the real risks leaders should understand (26:18) – How AI could impact psychological safety, collaboration, and team dynamics (29:57) – The critical leadership capability of using AI for reflection, self-awareness, and empathy (35:00) – The tools leaders should explore now, including ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and Copilot (47:58) – Final thoughts What I loved about this chat was the tools and how to effectively use them. I’ve walked away with a list of things I’m wanting our team to put in place, including connecting systems, using AI as a strategic thought partner in different ways. If leaders only use AI to draft emails or summarise meetings, we are missing the opportunity. The real power lies in using AI to stretch our thinking, challenge our assumptions, and hold up a mirror to our leadership behaviours. And yet, this technology also tests us. It asks whether we will become more disconnected from each other, or more intentional about human connection. Thriving teams in the age of AI will not be built on efficiency alone. They will be built on clarity, curiosity, accountability, and human leadership. If this conversation sparked new ideas for you, share it with another leader navigating the future of work. And if you are exploring how to build a thriving, future ready team, this episode is a powerful place to begin. Until next time, keep leading with curiosity and heart.