The BEATLES, John & Paul: Part 3 'The End'

The BEATLES, John & Paul: Part 3 'The End'

From Tony Robinson's Cunningcast by Tony Robinson

December 4, 2025 · 41 min · Season 3 · Episode 13

About this episode

Tony Robinson discusses the complex relationship between John Lennon and Paul McCartney with biographer Ian Leslie.

The third part of Tony’s chat with The Beatles biographer Ian Leslie, exploring the emotional and creative partnership between John Lennon and Paul McCartney. They discuss how Lennon’s 1966 “more popular than Jesus” remark shook him, how the Beatles abandoned touring for studio experimentation, and how Yoko Ono and Linda Eastman became catalysts for John and Paul pulling apart. Business conflicts, especially over management, deepened divisions even as the band continued producing remarkable work, culminating in Abbey Road. Despite a turbulent breakup, Lennon and McCartney slowly rebuilt a loose friendship before Lennon’s death, and the Beatles’ artistic legacy continues to shape modern music. Hosted by Sir Tony Robinson | Instagram @sirtonyrobinson Producer: Melissa FitzGerald | X @melissafitzg With Ian Leslie | www.ian-leslie.com Ian Leslie is the author of acclaimed and bestselling books on human psychology and creativity which have been translated into over a dozen languages. Malcolm Gladwell describes him as “one of my favourite writers”. Ian has written for the Financial Times, the Economist, the New York Times, The Sunday Times, and the New Statesman, among others, covering…

People in this episode

Host: Tony Robinson

Guest: Ian Leslie

Topics covered

  • The Beatles
  • John Lennon
  • Paul McCartney
  • music history
  • creative partnership
  • band dynamics

Keywords

  • The Beatles
  • John Lennon
  • Paul McCartney
  • music legacy
  • Abbey Road
  • band breakup
  • creative partnership

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: Financial Times, the Economist, the New York Times, The Sunday Times, the New Statesman

Books & works: Abbey Road

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