Value Investing with Legends

Jim Flynn is the Managing Partner of Deerfield Management, a healthcare-focused investment firm overseeing approximately $16 billion in assets. In this episode, hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos speak with Jim about his path from studying biology and economics to leading one of the industry's most distinctive healthcare investment platforms. Jim explains how Deerfield evolved from a public-equity-focused firm into an organization spanning public markets, private investments, venture creation, drug development, data science, and philanthropy. The conversation examines the challenges of healthcare investing, the importance of probabilistic thinking, the role of artificial intelligence in healthcare delivery and drug discovery, and Deerfield's approach to identifying opportunities across the healthcare ecosystem. Jim also shares insights on senior housing, healthcare innovation, regulatory dynamics, and the skills required for the next generation of healthcare investors, and much more! Key Topics: ● Jim Flynn's background in biology, economics, and early investing influences (2:27) ● Lessons from working in corporate development and understanding business operations (4:30) ● Joining Deerfield and the evolution from analyst to firm leader (7:52) ● Expanding Deerfield beyond public equities into venture, private investments, and philanthropy (10:36) ● Building a flexible healthcare investment platform across market cycles (13:58) ● The Melinta case study and transforming a distressed investment into an operating success (14:32) ● Artificial intelligence and its potential impact on healthcare delivery and diagnosis (18:52) ● AI adoption challenges and the role of healthcare institutions in driving change (22:13) ● Why proprietary healthcare data creates durable investment advantages (25:50) ● The creation of Deerfield Discovery and Development and CURE (27:12) ● Cross-pollination between public and private investing at Deerfield (31:05) ● The NewAmsterdam Pharma (NewValent) case study from concept to multibillion-dollar company (33:08) ● Investing in senior housing and demographic-driven opportunities (36:20) ● Evaluating healthcare policy, drug pricing, and regulatory risks through a long-term lens (40:16) ● Skills and characteristics needed for future healthcare investors (43:09) ● What worries and motivates Jim Flynn as a healthcare investor (44:30) ● Deerfield's investment process, team structure, and reducing analytical bias (46:53) ● Personal healthcare practices, longevity, and access to medical information (51:25) ● And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: ● Deerfield Management ● Alpharma ● Kidder Peabody ● GlaxoSmithKline ● Sanofi ● Hospital for Special Surgery ● Brookdale Senior Living ● OpenAI ● ChatGPT ● GRAIL ● Food and Drug Administration Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

In this episode, Cliff Asness joins Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin for a conversation that spans the evolution of quantitative investing, lessons from market crises, and the enduring tension between risk and behavioral explanations in finance. From his formative years at the University of Chicago under Gene Fama to building AQR into a quant powerhouse, Cliff reflects candidly on theory, performance, and how markets may have become less efficient in recent years. Key Topics: Tano and Michael return from sabbatical and reflect on recent academic and classroom experiences (0:00) Overview of Cliff's career and contributions to quant investing and academic finance (1:13) Cliff recounts his underachiever label, how standardized tests changed his path, and why he chose Penn's M&T program (2:54) How Cliff's coding work for Andy Lo inspired his academic path and led to Chicago (5:03) A breakdown of the 1992 and 1993 Fama-French papers, and how they reshaped asset pricing (8:45) Cliff discusses the theoretical divide between Fama and Thaler and his own evolution toward a behavioral perspective (13:08) Memories of presenting momentum to Fama, intellectual honesty, and voice-shaking dissertation defenses (17:13) Why Cliff chose Goldman over academia, his role in developing Goldman's quant group, and the influence of LTCM (22:00) Launching in August 1998 during the Russia default; early drawdowns and lessons from the tech bubble (27:50) How quant signals hold up, risks of crowding, and the difference between short-term and long-term capacity (34:32) Momentum held, but value strategies collapsed. How AQR dealt with long underperformance (43:31) Valuation starting points can obscure long-term performance; recent decades viewed in proper context (49:22) Cliff's provocative "Less Efficient Market Hypothesis" and three key drivers: indexing, interest rates, and social media (50:54) Is passive investing weakening price discovery? Reflections on Sharp's arithmetic and Grossman-Stiglitz (54:12) How echo chambers and meme stocks challenge traditional models of rational price formation (58:28) Why companies aren't issuing more equity despite sky-high valuations, and the fading role of smart capital allocators (1:00:46)And much more! Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with Anu Bradford, the Henry L. Moses Professor of Law and International Organization at Columbia Law School, to discuss the intricate dynamics of global technology regulation. Anu is recognized for her deep expertise in international economic law. Her pivotal books "The Brussels Effect" and "Digital Empires" explore how significant regions like the US, EU, and China shape technological standards worldwide. The conversation probes the complexities of regulating big tech companies across different legal and political landscapes, highlighting the significant influence of European regulations on global markets. She also touches on the impact of regulatory practices on innovation, the challenges of enforcing extensive digital laws, and the future trajectory of global tech governance. This episode offers a comprehensive look into the power struggles and cooperative efforts that define international technology regulation and much more! Key Topics: Introduction to Anu Bradford and her background (04:01) The unique position of the EU in global regulatory practices and its impacts (10:48) Detailed exploration of "The Brussels Effect" and its significance (12:56) Global market influence through regulatory strategies (17:02) The challenges and methodologies of tech regulation in the EU, US, and China (31:55) The role of data security and privacy in international relations and tech regulation (43:06) Future challenges and directions in global technology regulation (52:47) The preservation of liberal democracy in the digital age (54:51) Anu's book recommendations (58:56) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: Digital Empires: The Global Battle to Regulate Technology by Anu Bradford The Brussels Effect: How the European Union Rules the World by Anu Bradford Chip War: The Quest to Dominate the World's Most Critical Technology by Chris Miller Underground Empire: How America Weaponized the World Economy by Henry Farrell and Abraham Newman High Wire: How China Regulates Big Tech and Governs Its Economy by Angela Huyue Zhang Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

In the third episode of Season 10, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with James Bessen, Executive Director of the Technology and Policy Research Initiative at Boston University. Delving into the intricacies of technological advancement and market dynamics, Bessen shares his insights on the evolving landscape of competition and innovation. The discussion highlights the impact of proprietary software on industry disruption, exploring the significant shift from mass production to mass customization facilitated by technology. This episode not only provides a deep dive into the challenges and opportunities presented by the digital age but also prompts a reflection on the future of value investing in a tech-dominated world and so much more! Key Topics: Welcome to Season 10 of Value Investing with Legends (0:20) Exploring the concept of barriers to entry in value investing (1:05) James Bessen discusses technology's economic impact (3:15) Analysis of the decline in economic disruption despite technological growth (5:10) Impact of proprietary software on industry stability and market concentration (6:35) Historical perspective on technology's influence on the economy (8:25) The role of proprietary software in shaping competitive dynamics (10:30) The transition from mass production to mass customization in retail (12:05) Walmart's evolution and strategy in retail sector dynamics (14:20) Discussion on the concept of skill premium and technological advancements (24:55) Artificial intelligence's influence on market dynamics and job skills (26:10) Examining the pace and implications of innovation diffusion (31:00) Regulatory challenges and tech dominance in the market (34:10) Concentration of innovation and its economic implications (36:20) James' book recommendations (43:10) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: The New Goliaths: How Corporations Use Software to Dominate Industries, Kill Innovation, and Undermine Regulation by James Bessen Learning by Doing: The Real Connection between Innovation, Wages, and Wealth by James Bessen The Great Reversal: How America Gave Up on Free Markets by Thomas Philippon The Lever of Riches: Technological Creativity and Economic Progress by Joel Mokyr Worldly Philosopher: The Odyssey of Albert O. Hirschman by Jeremy Adelman Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

In this heartfelt episode, we pay tribute to Charlie Munger, the visionary vice chairman of Berkshire Hathaway who recently passed away. Joining us is Todd Combs, an investment officer at Berkshire Hathaway and a close acquaintance of Munger. Todd shares personal anecdotes and insights into Munger's profound influence on the investment world and his unique approach to life and business. From his early meetings with Munger to the invaluable lessons on value investing and rational thinking, Todd provides an intimate look into the wisdom of one of the greatest investors of our time. Key Topics: Celebrating Charlie Munger's contributions and legacy (01:20) Todd's initial encounters with Munger (02:15) The intellectual journey and partnership between Munger and Buffett (08:57) Munger's approach to life, investing, and the importance of mental models (11:22) Behavioral economics insights shared by Munger (13:00) The practical applications of Munger's wisdom in business and investing (16:17) Munger's lasting impact (24:59) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: Poor Charlie's Almanack: The Essential Wit and Wisdom of Charles T. Munger by Charles T. Munger Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

In the complex world of financial markets and economic fluctuations, John Armitage, a seasoned investment maestro, sits down with us today. As the chief strategist behind the success of Egerton Capital, Armitage brings his profound insights into navigating the complexities of portfolio management and the subtle art of risk-taking in fluctuating markets. His expertise, honed through years of experience, sheds light on the critical impact of macroeconomic shifts and the pitfalls that stock pickers often encounter amidst outdated corporate data. This episode delves into passive investing, dissecting the crucial role of competitive dynamics in sectors like European aviation and examining the transformative impact of a growing talent pool on the traditional realms of asset management. Armitage also ventures into the ethical crossroads, intertwining moral integrity, societal upheaval, and the revolutionary wave of artificial intelligence. We uncover his focus on growth, governance, and quality, underpinned by a meticulous decision-making process at Egerton Capital, his literary pursuits, pondering over the influence of literature on his investment philosophy, and so much more! Key Topics: Overview of Egerton Capital (1:42) Transitioning from broad ideas to specific investments and the role of specialization (8:29) Egerton Capital's approach to researching new investment opportunities (12:58) Understanding market signals and opposing investment perspectives (15:46) John's approach to portfolio building and decision-making in investing (20:00) Client importance, portfolio building, and decision-making in investing (23:37) Luck, being in the right place at the right time, and mentorship (28:07) Managing portfolio volatility and the frequency of financial crises (30:54) John's positive outlook on reinsurance space and companies like Ryanair and Meta (35:31) The future of stock picking and asset management (41:19) What worries John and excites him about the future (43:09) John's book recommendations (45:29) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: Egerton Capital The Golden Mole and Other Living Treasure by Katherine Rundell Super-Infinite - The Transformations of John Donne by Katherine Rundell The Fall of Robespierre: 24 Hours in Revolutionary Paris by Colin Jones The Sword and the Shield by Christopher Andrew and Vasilli Mitrokhin Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

John Rogers isn't just a successful investor; he's an industry titan. As the founder of a reputable investment firm, he's made a name for himself with his contrarian value investing strategies. But he's not just a practitioner; he's an educator, avidly reading and contributing to seminal works in investment literature. John's journey began with an early fascination for finance from his youthful days. A Princeton alumnus, he entered the turbulent waters of the stock market and turned a calamity—the infamous crash of 1987—into a career-defining opportunity. In today's episode, John joins us to discuss his formative experiences, the philosophical underpinning of his investment strategy, and the importance of thinking long-term. We also delve into his roles on various corporate boards, where he weighs in on 401k plans, corporate governance, the pivotal role of diversity in creating equal opportunities for minority businesses, and so much more! Key Topics: An overview of John's professional background (2:15) John's journey from William Blair to founding Ariel Investments (07:42) The 1987 market crash as a turning point for Ariel's value investing approach (10:04) John's philosophy on patient, research-heavy, value-based investing (13:07) How longevity in markets solidified John's faith in efficiency (19:15) The mechanics of idea generation at Ariel Investments (23:30) Ariel's methodology for dissecting investment errors (29:53) Drawing teamwork and pressure-handling lessons from Coach Carril (35:20) How board experience informs his investing (37:47) John's focus on value investing and cautious approach to buybacks (42:20) Why John is optimistic about The Sphere in Las Vegas and Adelum (46:18) John's fulfillment from social engagement and its business impact (50:18) What keeps John up at night and excited about the future (55:48) John's book recommendations (57:41) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: Turn Every Page: The Adventures of Robert Caro and Robert Gottlieb Jonathan Eig | King: A Life Morgan Housel | The Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and Happiness Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

Navigating the complex world of wealth creation and financial history can be daunting. That's why our guest, Ray Dalio, places a strong emphasis on understanding the evolution of wealth, the current economic landscape, and the patterns that govern financial markets. As an iconic investor and author, Ray offers a wealth of knowledge backed by years of experience in the finance industry. He has written the seminal book, "Principles for Navigating Big Debt Crisis," which serves as a crucial resource for anyone interested in understanding historical financial crises. Ray is a legendary investor and the founder of Bridgewater Associates, one of the largest hedge funds in the world. He has extensive experience with debt crises, having navigated them multiple times in his career. In addition to his achievements in finance, he is the author of several highly acclaimed books that have garnered him a massive following both inside and outside of the financial community. In this episode, Ray, Michael, and Tano discuss a range of topics from the evolution of wealth throughout history to the rise of populism in the modern world. They delve into the role of capital markets in wealth creation, the importance of understanding risk-return trade-offs, and much more. Ray also shares his unique perspectives on the challenges faced by countries like China and talks about the importance of deleveraging in today's economic climate. Join us as we dive deep into these captivating topics with one of the most brilliant minds in the finance industry. Stay tuned for an enriching conversation that promises to offer valuable insights and much more! Key Topics: An overview of Ray's background (2:56) Ray's early foray into commodities (5:18) Shifting from micro to macro via commodities (6:59) Founding and pivoting Bridgewater (8:37) Alpha and beta separation in investing (11:29) Client portfolio customization, beating traditional methods (14:04) Decision systemization for diverse returns (16:13) Navigating 2008 with debt dynamics knowledge (21:42) Transition from assets to future earnings (26:00) Market links to economic boom, risks of future promises (31:48) Growth's double-edged sword: innovation vs. debt and conflict (33:15) US-China war likelihood in the next decade (39:34) China's trio of challenges: Debt, demographics, economic model (46:37) Advocacy for bipartisan societal reform (54:06) Ray's book recommendations (58:28) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: Bridgewater Associates Principles for Navigating Big Debt Crises | Ray Dalio Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order: Why Nations Succeed or Fail | Ray Dalio Henry Kissinger's Books The Age of AI: And Our Human Future Leadership: Six Studies in World Strategy Diplomacy Crisis: The Anatomy of Two Major Foreign Policy Crises Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!