We Want Them Infected Podcast

Dr. Jonathan Howard (neurologist and author) and science journalist Wendy Orent return for another sharp, unsparing look at the state of U.S. public health policy. In this episode, the hosts unpack the surprise withdrawal of Casey Means as surgeon general nominee, her replacement by Fox News commentator and MSKCC breast imaging chief Dr. Nicole Saphier, and what the shuffle signals about the fracturing of the MAHA coalition. They dig into Saphier's contradictory record — pro-vaccine statements from 2020 and 2021 set against more recent anti-vaccine messaging, her supplement business (DropRx), and her now-deleted social media posts criticizing Trump and Elon Musk. From there, the conversation turns to the FDA's blocked publication of research showing the COVID and shingles vaccines are safe, the apparent role of former FDA vaccine office chief Dr. Vinay Prasad, and reporting that FDA Commissioner Marty Makary's job is in jeopardy. The episode also covers a small piece of good news — NIH program director Jenna Norton being reinstated after Jay Bhattacharya placed her on administrative leave for organizing the Bethesda Declaration — alongside disturbing developments: RFK Jr. clearing the path for minors to use tanning beds, and the militarized arrest of 78-year-old retired NIH scientist Dr. David Morens. Howard and Orent close on what the Morens arrest reveals about where lab leak conspiracy thinking has led American science and the rule of law. Hosts Dr. Jonathan Howard: Neurologist, professor, and author who writes prolifically on COVID misinformation and public health policy. Wendy Orent: Science journalist and author specializing in infectious disease, evolutionary biology, and public health. Episode Timestamps [00:00] Welcome and Atlanta weather check-in [00:35] Casey Means out, Nicole Saphier in as surgeon general nominee — what it signals about MAHA [01:30] Saphier's role at Memorial Sloan Kettering and her integrative medicine push [02:50] The 2021 WSJ op-ed with Marty Makary: a 10-fold error on pediatric COVID hospitalizations that was never corrected [06:30] Saphier's video opposing COVID vaccines for healthy children — and the framing of myocarditis as a fate worse than death [09:20] Saphier's earlier pro-vaccine statements from 2020 and 2021, and why MAHA now resents her [11:15] DropRx supplements: the surgeon general nominee's tincture business [12:30] Brandy Zadrozny's reporting on Saphier's book and her past criticism of the Plandemic film [13:10] Wendy watches Plandemic so you don't have to: Judy Mikovits and the anti-vaccine machine [14:50] CNN reports Saphier purged posts critical of Trump and Musk before her nomination [15:50] The most disturbing Saphier clip: 'DOGE is one of the greatest things to happen in U.S. history' while telling cancer researchers to 'just pause' [16:50] Harvard's November 2025 finding: hundreds of thousands of deaths from the USAID shutdown [18:20] Good news: Jenna Norton reinstated at NIH after Jay Bhattacharya tried to fire her over the Bethesda Declaration [19:30] Greg Gonsalves on scientists who cooperate with authoritarian science policy [20:10] FDA blocked publication of research showing the COVID and shingles vaccines are safe [21:30] Vinay Prasad: the censorship critic who became a censor [22:30] Why are these people opposed to the shingles vaccine? Howard and Orent on herpes zoster, strokes, and ophthalmic complications [23:50] New evidence: recombinant zoster vaccine linked to reduced dementia risk in adults 65+ [26:10] Marty Makary's FDA in chaos — WSJ, Bloomberg, and Politico reporting on a possible shakeup [28:00] Trump pressures the FDA to approve flavored vapes; ENDS authorization issued the same day [31:00] Makary's interview defending the Replimmune metastatic melanoma rejection — and getting caught in the contradiction [33:30] Who's really driving the FDA shakeup? Biotech investors, not patients [35:30] RFK Jr. clears path for minors to use tanning beds, and what dermatologists are saying [36:30] The arrest of Dr. David Morens: a 78-year-old retired NIH scientist, federal agents, tactical gear, and a strip-search [38:30] Lysenkoism revisited — what the lab leak conspiracy was always going to lead to [40:30] Closing thoughts and sign-off Key Discussion Points The Nicole Saphier Nomination Casey Means was withdrawn as surgeon general nominee and replaced by Dr. Nicole Saphier, head of breast imaging at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and a frequent Fox News medical commentator. Howard revisits Saphier's December 2021 Wall Street Journal op-ed with Marty Makary, which understated pediatric COVID-19 hospitalizations by roughly a factor of 10 because the authors did not realize covid.net data only covered about 10 percent of the U.S. population. The error has never been corrected. Saphier's pre-nomination digital footprint included pro-vaccine statements from 2020 and 2021 alongside more recent anti-vaccine content, criticism of Trump and Elon Musk that has since been purged, and a personal supplement line called DropRx. FDA Censorship of Vaccine Safety Research The FDA blocked publication of internal research finding that the COVID-19 and shingles vaccines are safe, with reporting suggesting Dr. Vinay Prasad's office was involved in the decision before he left the agency. Howard points out the irony: Prasad built much of his public profile complaining about scientific censorship, then engaged in censorship the moment he held FDA power. New peer-reviewed research continues to show the recombinant zoster (shingles) vaccine is associated with reduced dementia risk in adults aged 65 and older, even as senior officials downplay or block such findings. Marty Makary on Thin Ice Multiple outlets — the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, NOTUS, and a Rachel Bade scoop — report Makary is at risk of being removed as FDA Commissioner over conflicts with the White House and his handling of rare-disease drug approvals. The same day Trump publicly pressured the FDA on flavored vapes, the agency issued a press release authorizing new ENDS (electronic nicotine delivery systems) products. In a 15-minute interview, Makary defended the rejection of Replimmune's metastatic melanoma drug by attributing it to career FDA scientists, but the journalist surfaced earlier indications that the initial review team had recommended approval. A Rare Piece of Good News NIH program director Jenna Norton, a key organizer of the Bethesda Declaration, was reinstated after Dr. Jay Bhattacharya placed her on administrative leave. A judge also reinstated several FEMA employees in the same ruling. The Arrest of Dr. David Morens Federal agents in tactical gear and bulletproof vests arrested Dr. David Morens, a 78-year-old retired NIH influenza researcher and former aide to Dr. Anthony Fauci, at his home over allegations he used a private email account to discuss official business and avoid FOIA disclosure. According to reporting in Science, Morens was strip-searched, handcuffed, and driven roughly 65 kilometers for fingerprinting and booking. Howard and Orent frame the arrest as the predictable endpoint of years of lab leak conspiracy rhetoric, and as a clear case of selective political prosecution. Mentioned in This Episode Wall Street Journal op-ed: 'Should You Vaccinate Your Five-Year-Old?' by Nicole Saphier and Marty Makary, December 3, 2021 Plandemic (2020 anti-vaccine film featuring Judy Mikovits) Make America Healthy Again (book by Nicole Saphier) Harvard study, November 2025, on deaths attributable to the USAID shutdown Greg Gonsalves essay on Vichy scientists Bethesda Declaration Alyssa Finley, Wall Street Journal: 'President Trump's Marty Makary Problem' Bloomberg: 'Paranoia, Turmoil and Backlash Inside Marty Makary's FDA' Rachel Bade: 'Scoop: Makary's Job in Jeopardy as White House Considers FDA Shakeup' Liz Esely White, Wall Street Journal: 'Trump Pressures FDA Commissioner to Approve Flavored Vapes' Los Angeles Times: 'RFK Jr. clears path for minors' use of tanning beds, much to the dismay of dermatologists' Science: 'Guns and bulletproof vests: How federal agents arrested a Fauci aide' Brandy Zadrozny — reporting on Nicole Saphier

Jonathan and Wendy unpack the most surprising political move of Trump's second term: the nomination of Dr. Erica Schwartz — a physician, lawyer, former Coast Guard public health official, and unapologetic architect of military vaccine mandates — to run the CDC. Praised by figures like Jerome Adams, Vin Gupta, and Dorit Reiss, and openly loathed by RFK Jr.'s attack-dog attorney Aaron Siri, Schwartz's selection is read as a signal that the White House is quietly sidelining Kennedy ahead of the midterms and trying to win back the saner corners of the GOP. From there, the hosts dig into the widening fault lines inside MAHA: Marty Makary vs. Robert Malone — the "10 children killed by the COVID vaccine" report Makary promised has never materialized, and Malone is now publicly accusing him of the exact cover-up Makary accused his predecessors of. Vinay Prasad's exit from the FDA — his much-hyped randomized controlled trial of the Pfizer COVID vaccine in healthy 50–64-year-olds failed to recruit, proving (again) that tweeting about RCTs is easier than running them. Jonathan plays Prasad's own year-old promise back against him. The rumored FDA replacement — ophthalmologist and Twitter personality David Hooman, whose COVID-vaccine misinformation record would send exactly the wrong signal. Jay Bhattacharya on the rally circuit — CPAC, Turning Point USA, Kennedy rallies, DeSantis rallies — all while insisting "science shouldn't be political." Plus his role in suppressing a CDC vaccine-safety study and the UCSF faculty petition to block Prasad's return. The peptides free-for-all at the FDA, and why Kennedy still has enough juice to throw bones to his wellness-grifter base. Also: measles in Utah, a Moab travel detour, and a plea to every journalist, clinician, and listener still pushing back. MAHA is on its back foot — the job now is to keep the pressure on.

In this episode, the hosts unpack the controversial exit of Vinay Prasad from the FDA and what it reveals about fractures inside the MAHA coalition and the broader Trump-era health policy landscape. They examine the disputes surrounding rare-disease drug approvals—particularly Huntington's gene therapy—alongside ongoing battles over COVID vaccines, regulatory standards, and public trust in federal health agencies. The discussion also explores how political alliances, pandemic-era commentary, and conflicts with patient advocacy groups ultimately contributed to Prasad's downfall and what it may signal for the future of vaccine policy and biomedical regulation in the U.S. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this headline-driven episode, Jonathan and Wendy unpack the mounting turbulence inside U.S. public health institutions — from the political fallout over glyphosate and mRNA flu vaccines to FDA reversals, CDC leadership chaos, and a worsening measles outbreak. They examine internal fractures within the Maha movement, the politicization of vaccine policy, and the devastating real-world consequences of misinformation — including a 7-year-old hospitalized with measles encephalitis. The episode blends policy critique, scientific context, and ethical concern, highlighting how regulatory instability and distrust are reshaping American public health in 2026. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Jonathan and Wendy unpack a week of grim headlines—starting with reactions to the Epstein files and what it means when high-profile "wellness" personalities show up in uncomfortable places. From there, they dig into the ongoing campaign to re-litigate COVID (lockdowns, schools, vaccines) as a justification for dismantling public health, highlighting how "restore trust in science" rhetoric often functions as cover for undermining expertise, sidelining journalists, and mainstreaming vaccine skepticism—while preventable outbreaks like measles keep spreading. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Dr. Howard and Wendy unpack what they see as a rapid erosion of evidence-based public health in the U.S. — from vaccine schedule rollbacks and rising measles outbreaks to flu surges and institutional dysfunction inside agencies like the FDA and NIH. They examine how rhetoric about "restoring trust" is being used to justify removing protections for children, pregnant people, and vulnerable populations, while scientific integrity, transparency, and accountability are sidelined. The conversation connects current vaccine policy changes to broader patterns of political control, misinformation, and the abandonment of lessons learned during COVID, ending with a call to resist silence and demand accountability from leaders who shape public health policy. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this episode, Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent unpack what feels like a turning point for U.S. public health: the rapid erosion of scientific norms inside the FDA and CDC. Sparked by a leaked memo claiming pediatric COVID vaccine deaths, the conversation traces how unsubstantiated assertions, selective data interpretation, and performative outrage are now shaping vaccine policy. They examine the backlash from former FDA leaders, the misuse of safety databases, and the growing pattern of framing ambiguity as proof of harm. The discussion moves beyond COVID to show how this approach now threatens long-standing vaccines like hepatitis B—despite decades of evidence and dramatic reductions in disease. At its core, the episode argues this isn't about transparency or restoring trust. It's about power, spectacle, and ideology replacing evidence. When regulators prioritize narratives over data, the real risk isn't hidden side effects—it's the collapse of public confidence in the systems meant to protect children and public health. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

This episode dives into the unraveling of America's public health infrastructure as political interference reshapes the CDC, FDA, and NIH. Jonathan and Wendy walk through the CDC's new vaccine-autism messaging, the chaos and infighting inside the FDA, cuts to critical NIH trials, and Jay Bhattacharya's controversial "pandemic plan" built on personal responsibility instead of public health action. With outbreaks of measles, pertussis, and flu rising, they explore how misinformation, censorship, and agency dysfunction are putting the country at risk. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this gripping Halloween episode marking the second anniversary of We Want Them Infected, hosts Dr. Jonathan Howard and Dr. Wendy Orange confront the chilling reality of America under "Trump II." They dissect the collapse of public health, the weaponization of medicine, and the transformation of science into "Trump-Based Medicine"—a term Jonathan coins to describe physicians parroting political dogma over data. The duo highlights interviews and statements by Vinay Prasad, Marty Makary, Jay Bhattacharya, and Martin Kulldorff, who now echo President Trump's pseudoscientific vaccine directives—like splitting the MMR shot and delaying Hepatitis B vaccines. They warn that this alignment with anti-vaccine figures such as RFK Jr. and Andrew Wakefield marks a dangerous regression that could undo decades of medical progress. They also expose turmoil within the FDA, where Prasad's leadership has allegedly created a culture of fear, and discuss the growing exodus of scientists from federal health agencies. From declining measles vaccination rates to government loyalty tests, Howard and Orange paint a harrowing portrait of a nation sliding into scientific authoritarianism. The episode closes with their sobering realization: despite years of warning, even they underestimated how dark things could get. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this face-to-face episode, Jonathan and Wendy dive into the growing chaos surrounding U.S. public health. They highlight CDC whistleblower Dr. Susan Menez's powerful testimony on integrity, contrast it with the dysfunction of the new ACIP panel under RFK Jr., and dissect Trump's Tylenol-and-autism press conference that resurrects discredited Andrew Wakefield talking points. From quack autism "cures" to political appointees fumbling vaccine policy, the discussion traces how anti-vaccine disinformation moved from fringe rhetoric to federal power—leaving states, insurers, and medical groups scrambling to fill the leadership vacuum. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this episode, Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent dissect the latest controversies around censorship, disinformation, and the rewriting of COVID's history. From Jonathan's YouTube ban after posting videos of public officials, to David Zweig's revisionist narratives about school closures, the conversation exposes how propaganda tactics and false claims are reshaping public perception. They also highlight troubling developments at the FDA, NIH, and in political arenas where vaccine mandates are under attack, drawing connections between misinformation, free speech battles, and the erosion of trust in science. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

In this episode of We Want Them Infected, Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent unpack the shocking CDC shooting in Atlanta, which many are calling "public health's January 6th." They trace how years of anti-science rhetoric from figures like RFK Jr., Jay Bhattacharya, and Vinay Prasad have fueled violent consequences. They also welcome their first guest, Dr. Philipp Markolin PhD, author of Lab Leak Fever. Dr. Markolin shares his global reporting on COVID's origins, dismantles the so-called "lab leak" hypothesis, and explains how disinformation has been weaponized for politics and power. From epidemiological evidence at the Wuhan market to the ghost DNA of raccoon dogs, he outlines why science overwhelmingly supports a zoonotic origin. This episode tackles misinformation, political corruption, and the dangerous future of science under attack—while honoring the tragic loss of a young officer in the CDC shooting. Resources Mentioned Dr. Phillipp Markolin: Lab Leak Fever → https://www.lab-leak-fever.com/about STAT News article: "The CDC Shooting Was Public Health's January 6th" by Colin Carlson & Sean Kennedy STAT News article: "Kennedy's Case Against mRNA Vaccines Collapses Under His Own Evidence" by Dr. Jake Scott LA Times: Coverage of COVID resurgence in the Southwest, fall 2025 MedPage Today: "The Executive Order That Could Cripple Science" by Adam Brown Science-Based Medicine: Analysis of Jay Bhattacharya and NIH policy shifts Audrey Tang (Taiwan's Cyber Minister) – discussed as a model for democratic info ecosystems Guest Bio – Dr. Philipp Markolin Dr. Philipp Markolin, PhD is a Switzerland-based science writer and author of Lab Leak Fever, a definitive investigation into the origins of COVID-19. Trained in molecular biology and machine learning, Dr. Markolin spent more than a decade in academia before transitioning to science communication during the pandemic. He has written extensively on the intersection of science, conspiracy theories, and society, and has interviewed leading virologists, field researchers, and policymakers around the world. His reporting has taken him into wildlife markets and labs, where he traced the evidence that overwhelmingly supports a zoonotic origin for COVID-19. Dr. Markolin also co-produced a documentary film exploring the pandemic's origins and the scientists at the center of the controversy. He writes the blog Protagonist Science and speaks globally on the dangers of misinformation and the urgent need to protect scientific integrity. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

What happens when the loudest anti-vaccine voices stop podcasting and start running the FDA? In this explosive episode, Jonathan Howard and Wendy unpack how Drs. Marty Makary and Vinay Prasad — once champions of vaccine skepticism — are now in charge of public health policy… and finding themselves at war with the very conspiracy movement they courted. From quoting dubious anecdotes as "data" to downplaying real virus-related deaths while obsessing over vaccine side effects, their hypocrisy is staggering. Even MAGA influencers and anti-vax leaders are turning on them for not going far enough. The leopards are eating their faces — and we're here to document the carnage. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/ The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.