We're Not Marketers

Season five kicks off with the announcement nobody asked for but everyone needed: We're Not Marketers is throwing an event, and it's nothing like the stale hotel ballroom marathons you're used to. Eric, Zach, and Gab break down why they're risking it all to create a three-day PMM experience that's equal parts tactical workshop, adventure vacation, and therapy session for product marketers who are tired of pretending B2B has to be boring. Get the juicy details on how they infiltrated Drive 2025, why they're limiting attendance to 150 people, and what happens when three solopreneurs decide confidence beats certainty. → Why three solopreneurs with zero event planning experience think they can beat PMA→ The real reason behind the fake mustaches at Drive (hint: it's not just for laughs)→ The "sitting makes you stupid" theory: Why ballroom marathons kill creativity→ How wearing a Halloween costume to a B2B event makes you more yourself, not less→ Most PMMs need a recharge and haven't had one in yearsIf you've ever wondered why PMM events feel like eating cardboard while someone reads you PowerPoint slides, this episode will either inspire you or make you think we've completely lost it.Timestamped00:00 - Season 5 Intro: Two Years of We're Not Marketers 02:15 - The Big Announcement: We're Throwing an Event 04:30 - Why PMM Events Are Broken (And Why We're Fixing Them) 08:45 - The Mustache Origin Story: From Highline to Drive 12:20 - Behind the Scenes: How We Decided to Commit to the Bit 15:20 - Analysis Paralysis vs. Bold Action: Our Decision-Making Process 18:50 - The 150-Person Formula: In-House, Fractional, and CMOs 22:15 - Why Events Should Feel Like Vacations, Not Work 26:40 - The Fractional PMM Problem: Gatekeeping in B2B Events 29:30 - What Makes a Great Event: Lessons from Highline and Drive 32:10 - The Ryan Holiday Moment That Validated Everything 35:45 - Our Event Philosophy: Shipping Over Theory 38:20 - Why We're Taking the Risk (Even If It Fails) 42:00 - What Attendees Are Asking For: Tactical, Fun, and RealSHOW NOTES:Courage Is Calling" by Ryan HolidayHighline ConferenceDrive ConferenceWe're Not Marketers Event WaitlistHosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

What happens when a product marketer leaves the in-house grind to start her own consultancy? According to Alex Virden, it changed how she saw product marketing entirely.In this episode, Virdical founder shares why PMMs aren’t traditional marketers, how consulting rewires your thinking, and what startup leaders really need when they ask for help. From messy handoffs to misaligned messaging, Alex explains the recurring pain points that surface in the go-to-market function and how external voices can reset the entire narrative.She also share knowledge on:The power dynamics that make consultants more effective than internal PMMsWhy hourly billing models can backfire (and what to do instead)How to spot when your org needs a third-party voice to fix GTM strategyTactics for commanding a room with CEOs (even if you're the outsider)How to avoid getting pulled into the basement making decks and one-pagersPractical advice for PMMs transitioning into consulting or freelance workIf you’ve tried to run a strategic PMM project while dodging CEO opinions and internal politics, this episode is a must-listen. Whether you're in-house and underwater or eyeing the consultant leap, Alex Virden brings receipts, real talk, and a clear lens on what modern product marketing really looks like when done right 🫡Timestamps:02:54 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?04:59 The Role of a Product Marketing Consultant09:23 Challenges and Insights in Product Marketing16:24 Structuring Consulting Engagements24:19 Maintaining Control in Client Meetings26:31 Meeting Disasters and Control27:20 The Importance of Structured Agendas29:06 Hypotheses and Curiosity in Product Marketing30:46 Challenges in Messaging and Stakeholder Meddling32:17 The Role of External Validation34:59 Demand Generation vs. Product Marketing38:58 The 4Ps and Modern Marketing43:49 Final Thoughts and Staying ConnectedShow Notes: Alex’s LinkedIn Virdical WebsiteHosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Is product marketing really marketing? Or is it something more (or less)? In this deep-dive episode, Humans of MarTech co-founder Phil Gamache joins the crew to unpack what it truly means to be a marketer today—and why product marketing often feels like a misunderstood offshoot of the craft. From the forgotten “P” in the marketing mix to the role of AI in shaping how teams work together, this episode balances reflection, tactical insight, and Phil’s unmistakable chill candor. Learn how product marketers can better collaborate with marketing ops, why summarizing research matters more than polishing the perfect message, and how GenAI will shift execution forever.The ultimate marketer and podcast legend educate us on:Why most customer research never gets shared—and how to fix itThe AI use case every PMM should be doing today (and probably isn’t)“You can never give an LLM too much context”—unless you doPhil’s rule of thumb: brief AI like you brief your analystThe PMM x Martech collab that unlocks ICP clarityThis one’s a must-listen for any PMM trying to earn cross-functional credibility and not just ship decks no one reads.If you’ve ever felt like the ‘silent’ in the marketing department, this episode will help you find your voice and your seat at the table.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction and Host Roundtable01:05 Introducing the Special Guest: Phil Gamache01:55 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?05:50 Phil's Experience with the Four P's of Marketing09:22 Challenges and Roles in Marketing Ops12:45 The Future of AI in Marketing24:30 The Current State of AI25:10 Leveraging AI for Customer Research29:06 Practical Tips for Summarizing Customer Interviews31:58 The Importance of Context in AI Prompts40:02 Collaborating with Marketing Ops for Better Data43:23 Exploring AI Tools: MidJourney vs. DALL-E45:30 Conclusion and FarewellShow Notes:Phil’s LinkedInHumans of Martech PodcastHosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

In this spicy episode, CEO & Founder of Foundation Marketing, Ross Simmonds reveals why content without distribution is just expensive digital paperwork. We dive into why product marketers ARE marketers (yes, even SEOs), how to build "content moats" that will still be paying dividends in 2030, and why LLMs will actually make SEO more valuable, not less. Ross drops some truth bombs about AI scraping the internet that might make you reconsider where you're spending your marketing budget.Why product marketing is just one layer of the "marketing onion" (and why that matters)The skills every marketer needs to develop if they want that sweet promotion (and bigger paycheck)Why your marketing strategy shouldn't mindlessly copy Canva's TikTok—even if it's working for themHow SEO experts accidentally taught ChatGPT everything it knows (and why Google still matters)The "content moat" strategy that will determine which companies dominate in 2030Why your CMO should be investing in content and SEO right now (before it's too late)How the rise of AI makes SEO MORE important, not less (despite what LinkedIn gurus say)The uncomfortable truth: if you can't sell your ideas internally, you're in the wrong jobHow to build "T-shaped" marketing skills (and why you need a capital "I" instead)If you want your content to actually drive results five years from now instead of disappearing into the digital void tomorrow, hit play. Ross reveals the distribution-first mindset that separates marketing that works from marketing that wastes.Show Notes00:41 Meet Our Guest: Ross Simmonds03:09 The Evolution of Marketing05:37 The T-Shaped Marketer10:03 Distribution First Mindset14:09 SEO and Product Marketing18:21 Investing in Content and SEO24:11 Effective Content Distribution31:18 Reflecting on Early Challenges31:58 Embracing AI for Content Distribution32:39 The Importance of Obsession and Continuous Learning34:20 Practical Steps to Stay Ahead in AI36:36 Building and Experimenting with AI Projects45:55 Sharing Ideas and Overcoming Self-Doubt49:10 The Power of Experimentation and Content Creation52:14 Final Thoughts and Future PlansHosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Is sounding "enterprise" killing your marketing message? In this episode, conversion copywriter Jessica Malnik joins the crew to expose why the most effective copy isn't about being clever—it's about stealing your customers' exact words. We dive into customer research plays you can use now, why corporate speak is a conversion killer, and how LinkedIn "lunatics" sacrifice credibility for clicks. Tune in for practical tips on creating content that actually converts instead of just sounding smart.What you get when you listenWhy product marketers are the "Swiss army knife" of marketing (and why that's a good thing)The surprisingly simple research hack top copywriters use to write enterprise copy that doesn't sound roboticThe hidden Reddit goldmine most marketers completely overlookHow AI can help you analyze 1,000+ customer comments in minutes (including the exact prompts to use)Why Jessica refuses to work with pre-revenue startups (and what this means for your messaging)The embarrassing LinkedIn trend that's landing marketers on the "LinkedIn Lunatic" subredditWhy "What's in it for them?" trumps creativity every single timeThe counterintuitive reason why Jessica actually prefers clients with no messaging briefThe three types of LinkedIn posts that drive real business (not just vanity metrics)Show Notes00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction01:47 Jessica Malnick on Product Marketing03:36 Navigating Copywriting Challenges08:34 Human Touch in Copywriting10:08 Using Reddit for Audience Research11:27 Tools and Techniques for Copywriting18:34 LinkedIn Strategies for PMMs23:05 Final Thoughts and Resources26:16 Conclusion and Sign-OffWhy being human in your copy matters more in the age of AI than ever beforeHosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Ever wonder why most bottom-of-funnel content feels generic and fails to convert? In this episode, content strategy advisor Lashay Lewis drops knowledge bombs on the critical gap between product marketing and content marketing. She breaks down why teams are working in silos, how bottom-funnel content fails when the reader knows more than the writer, and why product marketers are the unsung heroes of effective marketing. Why the knowledge level of the reader being higher than the writer kills bottom-funnel content conversionsThe reason most marketing teams fail to create effective bottom-funnel content "Micro action, macro patience": The mindset shift that can transform your career in 6 monthsWhy most companies operate like high school cliques, and how to break those silosThe uncomfortable truth: freelance writers can't create effective technical bottom-funnel contentListen for practical frameworks on cross-team collaboration and real talk on making the scary leap from full-time to fractional success.Timespan:02:12 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?04:15 Product Marketers as Underutilized Marketing MVPs06:41 The Problem with Siloed Communication in Marketing Teams09:12 What is the Bottom of Funnel Gap?12:03 Why Bottom Funnel Content Fails to Convert14:53 Questions to Ask Different Teams for Effective Bottom Funnel Content19:12 Lashay's Journey to Building Bottom Funnel Expertise24:34 Transitioning from In-House to Consulting28:06 The Benefits of Leaving In-House for Consulting31:57 "The Pain of Staying the Same" Mindset36:41 Building Momentum with "Micro Action, Macro Patience"40:32 What's Next for Lashay and Where to Find HerShow Notes: Lashay on LinkedInRob Kaminsky and Anthony Pieri's Product Marketing ContentExit 5 Podcast Episode featuring Lashay LewisHosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Is your message testing just throwing random ingredients into a pot and hoping it tastes good? In this no-holds-barred episode, the boys tackle the chaos of message testing and why most PMMs are doing it wrong. From useless A/B tests with tiny sample sizes to executives demanding "just one more tweak," we dive into what actually works. Tune in for laughs, practical frameworks, and why your mom's cooking method isn't a valid messaging strategy. We're covering:Only 30% of product marketers have ever actually tested a message (and most of them did it wrong)Why A/B testing is the "let's not commit" cop-out of marketing teamsThe one-variable rule: why testing multiple things at once is destroying your resultsThe critical difference between message testing and A/B testing that most marketers missHow to build a message testing framework that gets leadership buy-in immediatelyIf you've ever sat through a meeting where someone suggested "Let's A/B test it" for a campaign going to 150 people, this episode will either validate your frustration or completely change how you work. Either way, your next messaging project just got a whole lot more effective.Timestamps01:39 Question: How Many PMMs Actually Test Messages?02:31 Why A/B Testing Is Often the Wrong Approach04:00 Statistical Significance and Sample Size Problems05:58 Testing Text vs. Testing Visuals06:05 Messaging as Strategy vs. Tactical Implementation 09:01 Differentiating Message Testing from A/B Testing12:15 The Commitment Problem in Marketing Decision-Making16:16 How Trade Shows Can Validate Positioning and Messaging19:45 Message Testing to Define Product Uniqueness22:00 Eric's Process Misstep: Jumping to Experimentation Too Soon27:45 The Scientific Method in Message Testing29:01 The Gumbo Analogy: Why Most Marketing Isn't Replicable34:15 Isolating Variables in Message Testing35:36 Building a Strong Hypothesis Framework38:25 Gab's Message Testing Resources (Message Market Fit)41:30 The ROI of Message Testing and Business Consequences44:35 Final Thoughts and Key TakeawaysShow notes:Victoria Rudi's Messaging FrameworksMessage Market Fit - Gab's resource for message testing frameworks and templates.Freckle.io - The Clay alternative talked in the example Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Product marketers with a sales background often feel like they have a superpower. The opposite is even truer.Kyle Coleman, CMO at Copy.ai, says yes—and he’s got the career journey to back it up. From SDR to marketing exec, Kyle breaks down why sales and marketing are inseparable, how storytelling (not the best product) wins markets, and why staying close to revenue is the key to career growth. Plus, he shares how he personally closed $350K in outbound sales while leading marketing.✅ Why storytelling—not features—wins markets (just ask Salesforce).✅ The biggest mistake most product marketers make when trying to prove their impact.✅ Sales and marketing: two sides of the same coin or completely different beasts?✅ Why the best PMMs own the revenue conversation.✅ The "ivory tower" trap that kills product marketing impact.✅ Kyle’s secret to getting buy-in from execs for category creation (hint: 75+ interviews).✅ A real-life sales deck fail—and how Kyle fixed it by actually selling.✅ The #1 piece of career advice for product marketers who want to be CMOs.If you're a product marketer aiming for the CMO seat, this episode is your playbook. 🔥Timespan:00:00 Introduction to the Podcast00:16 Meet the Hosts00:56 Introducing the Guest: Kyle Coleman01:53 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?04:18 Sales and Marketing: A Unified Perspective05:40 Kyle's Journey from SDR to CMO07:42 The Importance of Staying Close to Revenue12:10 Internal Buy-In and Category Definition15:11 Advice for Aspiring CMOs19:12 Using AI in Marketing Strategy21:28 AI in Sales Enablement22:40 Impact Over Quantity23:57 Real-World Example: Transitioning to Enterprise25:49 Hiring the Right Product Marketer30:29 Marketing as a Leadership Function34:51 Advice for Product Marketing Candidates39:06 Kyle's Side Projects and Copy AI41:45 Final Thoughts and Career Growth TipsShow Notes:Kyle's LinkedIn ProfileCopy.aiChristopher Lochhead’s "Position Yourself or Be Positioned"Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.