WiLD Conversation

In an industry where "box-checking" can often replace "soul-shaping," trust remains the invisible engine of successful healthcare organizations. This episode explores why trust isn't a light switch you can simply flip on, but a living process of maintenance, recovery, and truth-telling. We dive into the hidden costs of low-trust environments, where employees spend more time appearing trustworthy than actually being it, and how leaders can shift from managing assumptions to building authentic alignment. Key Leader Takeaways: Trust is a Process, Not a Switch: It isn't binary (on/off). It requires daily "maintenance and recovery" rather than a one-time achievement. The Cost of "Invisible Assumptions": In low-trust environments, staff waste cognitive energy managing perceptions instead of performing. The "Quiet Exit" of Trust: Customers and patients rarely protest when trust is lost; they simply stop showing up. Vulnerability over Perfection: Trust is built by being honest about where work still needs to be done, not by projecting a flawless image. Soul-Shaping vs. Box-Checking: Real organizational health comes from fostering courage and job clarity, not just completing compliance checklists.

Why are more than 8,000 college students gathering every week at Reed Auditorium at Texas A&M? In a cultural moment marked by perpetual stimulation without satisfaction, they aren’t showing up for more noise, they're showing up for something real. For leaders who are awake. In this episode of The WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu sit down with Brian McCormack to explore the growing hunger for truth, trust, and transcendence among the next generation. Together, they unpack the high-stakes reality of leading in a time where truth moves at lightspeed and authenticity is often questioned. They discuss why college campuses are becoming epicenters of both cultural disruption and spiritual awakening, and what it means to lead in the midst of it. This conversation invites leaders to move beyond performance and into presence, embracing brokenness, owning limitations, and stepping into what Brian calls ferocious intentionality: a disciplined, awake, and deeply purposeful way of stewarding time. The fight for this generation may not be about attention,it may be about the minutes. Key Takeaways The Campus as the Epicenter: Why movements, both cultural and spiritual, are igniting among students, and what leaders must recognize The AI Truth Crisis: Leading in a world where reality feels increasingly unstable Perpetual Stimulation vs. Satisfaction: Understanding the deeper hunger driving students toward meaning and the supernatural Leading from Brokenness: Why trust begins with the courage to say, “I may fail you” Fighting for the Minutes: Practicing ferocious intentionality in a world designed to keep us distracted and asleep

In this WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. John Blakey joins Dr.Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu to challenge one of leadership’s most common assumptions: if trust is the most important currency in leadership, why aren’t organizations measuring it? Drawing from his research, executive coaching experience, and his recent Harvard Business Review article, Blakey argues that trust must move beyond inspirational language and become a measurable strategic asset. Leaders cannot build cultures of trust by intuition alone; they must develop the courage to expose blind spots, measure what matters, and intentionally cultivate the habits that create trust over time. Together, the conversation explores: Why trust is the foundation beneath performance and culture The difference between talking about trust and operationalizing it How measurement builds self-awareness, shared language, and strategic alignment Why leaders consistently overestimate their own trustworthiness The role of kindness, courage, and behavioral habits in trusted leadership Blakey also shares the pivotal career moment that sparked his life’s work, being told by a CEO that he was “too nice” to succeed in corporate leadership, and how that challenge ultimately led him to prove that leaders who rely on the power of trust can outperform those who rely on power itself. For leaders navigating a moment when trust is eroding across institutions, this episode offers a clear call to action: Stop treating trust like a feeling and start treating it like the leadership system it truly is. For more on the WiLD Trust Index: https://www.wildleaders.org/wild-trust-index For more on The Trusted Executive: https://trustedexecutive.com/

In this deeply reflective and practical WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna welcomes Randy Conley, Vice President and Trust Practice Leader at The Ken Blanchard Companies, into a conversation that moves beyond trust as a concept and into trust as a relational, moral, and courageous practice. Together, they explore a reality many leaders experience but few name: trust is often broken not by malice, but by silence, misaligned expectations, and unresolved wounds. At the heart of rebuilding trust, Randy and Rob surface a powerful and often overlooked leadership discipline—forgiveness. In a cultural moment marked by polarization, cancellation, and quick judgments, this episode challenges leaders to consider a different path. One grounded in humility, confession, and the willingness to acknowledge brokenness, not as weakness, but as the starting point for wholeness. Randy reframes forgiveness as a personal choice rather than a transactional outcome, reminding leaders that unforgiveness quietly erodes the very trust they hope to protect. The conversation also dives into the real-world complexity of leadership: trust dilemmas, competing loyalties, unspoken expectations, and the tension between accountability and compassion. Rather than offering simplistic answers, Randy offers grounded wisdom, research-backed insight, and practical behaviors leaders can begin applying immediately. This episode ultimately invites leaders to ask a deeper question: Is it possible to move toward wholeness—personally, relationally, or organizationally—without forgiveness? And if trust always requires risk, are we willing to go first? Leadership Takeaways Forgiveness and Vulnerability Are Core Leadership Choices Trust cannot be rebuilt without forgiveness, and forgiveness always requires vulnerability. Leaders do not wait for certainty, acknowledgment, or apology—they choose courage, go first, and create space for trust to begin again. Trust Grows Through Clarity, Not Assumptions Many breaches of trust are rooted in unspoken expectations rather than intentional harm. Healthy leaders make the implicit explicit, communicate early when commitments change, and practice dependability by doing what they say they will do. Trust Is Sustained Through Consistent Behavior Over Time Trust is not a destination but a journey shaped by daily actions. Moments of forgiveness matter, but trust is maintained through ownership, follow-through, and reliability—especially when the path forward is complex. Wholeness Emerges When Leaders Name Brokenness Honestly Leaders do not lead from perfection but from humility. Confessing cultures—where mistakes are acknowledged and learned from—create healthier organizations and transform cracks into pathways for growth, restoration, and trust.

In this powerful conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna and Ron Carucci dive into the hidden forces that shape honesty, trust, and character inside organizations. Ron—co-founder of Navalent, bestselling author of To Be Honest, and one of the most unflinchingly candid voices in leadership—reveals what 30 years of research and experience have uncovered: honesty isn’t just a virtue. It’s a muscle. And organizations are either strengthening it… or eroding it every day. Together, Rob and Ron revisit the early days of their collaboration, exploring what it really takes to lead alongside others with authenticity, speed, and grace. They reflect on the messy, beautiful realities of partnership, the tension between pace and presence, the power of emerging leaders, and the organizational conditions that predict whether people will tell the truth—or hide it. Ron breaks down the four conditions that scientifically predict honesty and trustworthiness on a team, including accountability with dignity, say–do alignment, cross-functional integrity, and true transparency in decision-making. Through candid stories, personal reflection, and practical insights, this episode challenges leaders to examine not just who they are—but the environments they create. This is a masterclass in leading with integrity in complex times, delivered with the honesty, humor, and clarity that only Ron Carucci can bring. Leadership Takeaways 1. Honesty Is Not a Trait — It’s a Trained Muscle Leaders must practice honesty daily. Our brains are wired for truth, but our environments often pull us toward fear, self-protection, or silence. 2. Your Organization Is Shaping Honesty More Than You Realize There are four conditions that predict truth-telling or deception. Leaders either reinforce or erode integrity by the systems they tolerate. 3. Say–Do Alignment Builds (or Destroys) Trust Instantly If what you claim as a leader doesn’t match what people observe, you institutionalize duplicity. 4. Accountability Must Preserve Dignity When people feel seen and respected for their contributions, they are four times more likely to tell the truth. 5. Transparency in Decision-Making Reduces Underground Conversations If a room feels like orchestrated theater, people will seek truth elsewhere—usually in hushed corners. 6. The Seams of Your Organization Predict Integrity Cross-functional tensions are where the truth fractures first. Healthy seams = healthy trust. For more on Ron's work click the links below: www.navalent.com www.tobehonest.net

This special episode of the WiLD Conversation Podcast features Jeffrey Hunter, the visionary CEO, Founder, and Chairperson of Storyteller Overland. Dr. Rob McKenna is a proud owner of a Storyteller Stealth, giving listeners an intimate look at his personal "mode" and setting the stage for a deeply personal and insightful discussion. Jeffrey shares the origin story of Storyteller Overland, born from a desire to meet unmet needs in the van life community with high-quality, scalable production, allowing adventurers to "focus on the life aspects of van life" with confidence and a "circle of trust." Key Leadership Takeaways: Inspiring a "Live Free" Movement: At its core, Storyteller Overland is on a mission against a "broken timeline"—the tendency to defer dreams and adventures. Jeffrey’s leadership aims to empower people to "take the next step" and embrace a new version of themselves, confident in the gear and supported by a community that helps them explore farther and "not keep breaking their timeline." This mission-driven approach defines not only their product but their entire organizational purpose. Trust as the Governing Physics of Business: Jeffrey emphasizes that trust is not just a soft skill but the "governing physics" of enduring success, both within the organization and with its community. He advocates for measuring trust to create pathways for change and intentionally fostering authenticity, integrity, and commitment to shared values among a diverse team. Quantifying the Vibe: As Storyteller Overland scaled rapidly, Jeffrey and his team realized the need to "quantify the vibe." This means identifying measurable metrics for subjective feelings like community, confidence, and happiness to ensure that rapid growth doesn't sacrifice the core culture and values. Leaders must continually ensure the "vibe" is structurally, endemically, and consistently true. Product as a Vehicle for Purpose: The "mode" is intentionally designed not as conspicuous consumption, but as a "vehicle" for accessing and connecting with passions, people, and places. Jeffrey's personal journey of seeking permission to live a more adventurous life translated into products that help others "unlock the person they're wanting to go and do and be and become," making the product an extension of a greater mission. Continuous Improvement in All Aspects: From product design to personal leadership, Jeffrey champions continuous improvement. This includes not only refining vehicles but also continually working on personal growth and leadership capacity, recognizing that a relationship, whether with a team or a customer, is "not one and done." This conversation offers invaluable lessons for leaders striving to build a thriving business rooted in trust, purpose, and a truly wild spirit of adventure. Watch on YouTube : https://youtu.be/Bohg3Lo75bA For more on the WiLD Trust Index visit : https://www.wildleaders.org/wild-trust-index For more on Storyteller Overland visit : https://www.storytelleroverland.com/

Patrick Lencioni, one of the most influential voices in organizational health together with Dr. Rob McKenna, dive deep to explore the heart of effective leadership—redefining success, reframing identity, and uncovering the surprising role of brokenness in shaping whole leaders. This episode of The WiLD Conversation Podcast begins lightheartedly with pet peeves, but quickly moves into transformative insights on humility, trust, and the sacrificial nature of leadership. Key Takeaways for Leaders: Reframe Success from Performance to WholenessSuccess isn’t about endless striving or achievement. Lencioni challenges the idea that high performance equals health, showing instead that true leadership comes from peace and wholeness, not fear or insecurity. Embrace Vulnerability as the Foundation of TrustVulnerability isn’t trendy, it’s courageous. Trust is forged when leaders risk openness, admit mistakes, and allow others to see their imperfections. This creates authentic connection and psychological safety. Know Your Working Genius and Acknowledge WeaknessesLeaders don’t need to excel at everything. Lencioni’s Working Genius model helps identify where joy and energy come from while encouraging teams to complement each other’s strengths. Admitting what you’re not good at isn’t weakness—it’s humility and wisdom. Leadership is a Sacrificial ActLeadership isn’t about recognition or power. It’s about service—choosing difficulty and even suffering on behalf of others. Great leaders embrace this sacrificial posture for the sake of those they lead. For more on The Table Group visit: https://www.tablegroup.com/ For more on The Working Genius visit: https://www.workinggenius.com/ For more on the WiLD Trust Index visit: https://www.wildleaders.org/wild-trust-index For more on WiLD Leaders Inc. visit: https://www.wildleaders.org/

What really drives high performance? In this episode, global speaker and leadership strategist Jamie Crosbie joins Dr. Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu on the WiLD Conversation Podcast to challenge the metrics-only mindset and champion the human algorithm—where trust, courage, and clarity fuel sustainable success. Jamie reminds us: “If outcomes are king, then trust is the crown.” Together, they unpack how courageous leadership, emotional intelligence, and reframing failure can transform feedback into fuel—and cultivate cultures where people thrive, not just perform. If you’re leading in high-pressure spaces, this one’s for you. Leadership Takeaways: 🔹 Lead with Metrics and Meaning Performance soars when goals are clear and people feel valued. Don’t skip the "why." 🔹 Courage Builds Trust Vulnerability isn’t weakness—it’s leadership. Own your limits, invite honesty, and watch trust grow. 🔹 Failure Fuels Growth Ditch the fear. Normalize failure as feedback. Try asking: “What did you fail at today?” 🔹 Self-Awareness > Strategy Alone Even the best plan falls flat without emotional intelligence. Start within to lead well. 🔹 Find Your People Leadership isn’t a solo act. Build your circle—mentors, coaches, truth-tellers. No one peaks alone.

In this illuminating WiLD Conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu sit down with Chris Shaffer, WiLD Leaders Strategic Development Architect and former Microsoft director. Chris Shaffer unpacks the profound shift in how we understand and cultivate trust in today's complex world. Moving beyond mere information, they delve into how real trust is "worked out" through vulnerability, conflict, and genuine relationship. Discover why measuring trust isn't just about assessment, but about igniting critical conversations and empowering leaders to address hidden challenges at scale. This episode is a must-listen for any leader ready to move from the "unconscious incompetent" to the "unconscious competent" in building a culture where trust isn't just a buzzword, but a tangible, measurable foundation for success. Five Key Leadership Takeaways: Trust is Not Just Information; It's Interaction: Dr. McKenna emphasizes that in today's personalized information landscape, true trust goes beyond what we're told or read. It's "worked out" through conversation, tested in conflict, and proven in vulnerability. Leaders must foster environments where this interactive trust can flourish, rather than relying on one-way information dissemination. Measure to Manage: You Can't Improve What You Don't See: Chris Shaffer powerfully argues that measuring trust moves it from the "dark" of unconscious incompetence into the "light" of conscious awareness. Without concrete data, leaders are left to guess at their organization's trust levels, making intentional improvement nearly impossible. Measuring trust provides the clarity and actionability needed to identify specific areas of strength and opportunity. Trust Assessment Fuels Growth, Not Judgment: Counterintuitively, the most common emotional response Chris observes from leaders after seeing their trust results (even low ones) is gratitude. This isn't about passing or failing a test; it's about receiving a clear, honest picture of reality. Leaders with a growth mindset embrace these insights as a starting point for improvement, demonstrating courage and a willingness to be "editable." Leaders Have Blind Spots – Data Illuminates Them: Whether a leader suspects a trust issue or is unsure, the Wild Trust Index illuminates strategic blind spots by providing precise details. It offers a clear framework for understanding trust at personal, team, and organizational levels, guiding leaders to focus on specific drivers rather than broad, undefined problems. This precision empowers targeted action. Trust is the Root Cause of Culture: Complementary, Not Competitive: While culture surveys measure symptoms, the Wild Trust Index gets to the foundational root cause. Trust is the bedrock upon which healthy organizational culture is built. Measuring trust provides a deeper understanding of underlying dynamics, complementing broader culture assessments and offering actionable levers to improve overall organizational health.

What if the key to trust wasn’t just character—but competence, clarity, and accountability? In this compelling episode of The WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with longtime friend and fellow leadership practitioner Alex Shootman, CEO of Alkami Technology and author of Done Right: How Tomorrow’s Top Leaders Get Stuff Done. What unfolds is not just a sharp exchange between two seasoned leaders—but a deeply honest conversation between old friends who have walked through leadership’s messiness, pressure, and purpose together. With decades of experience leading turnarounds and scaling high-performing software organizations, Alex shares how he grounds his leadership in four non-delegable CEO responsibilities—and how a “No-Blame Bias” has shaped the way he builds trust, manages growth, and drives both results and culture. Drawing from a leadership framework that values both getting it done and doing it right, Alex unpacks how clear accountability, relentless transparency, and trust as a managed business function are essential to long-term success. He reminds us that in every high-performing team, trust is breaking all the time—so we must be intentional about building it all the time. Whether you're a CEO, an emerging leader, or someone navigating the tension between results and values, this episode offers not only practical wisdom—but a refreshing window into what happens when sharp minds, shared values, and leaders-in-process come together in authentic conversation. 💡 Leadership Takeaways The CEO’s Responsibility: Strategy, values, economic outcomes, and building the right team cannot be outsourced—they must be owned and lived by the leader. No-Blame Bias: Creating a culture of truth-telling starts with removing fear of blame. Leaders must model and reinforce this bias to build trust across the organization. Trust as a Business Function: Trust doesn’t self-sustain. Even in high-performing organizations, it must be constantly assessed, cultivated, and rebuilt. The Getting It Done / Doing It Right Matrix: High-impact organizations don’t reward results at the expense of values. The real culture carriers do both—and they’re celebrated by name. Growth Breaks Things: Just like Hemingway’s “stronger at the broken places,” growth breaks teams and systems—what matters is how leaders repair and rebuild with intention.

In this powerful episode of The WiLD Conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Stephen M. R. Covey, best-selling author of The Speed of Trust, to explore the transformative power of trust in leadership, relationships, and organizational life. In a world marked by declining institutional confidence, Covey argues that trust isn’t just a value—it’s a measurable, learnable competency that multiplies performance and accelerates impact. Listeners are invited into a conversation that challenges the myth that trust is soft or intangible. Covey reframes trust as a strategic imperative and leadership skill that determines how quickly we can innovate, collaborate, and lead through change. In his words, “Low trust is a tax. High trust is a dividend.” The conversation also touches on a key paradox of influence: To lead effectively, we must first be willing to be influenced—to genuinely understand others before we expect them to follow us. As leaders model humility and create space for others to feel deeply seen and heard, they become catalysts for real trust. 🔑 Key Takeaways for Leaders: Trust is a performance multiplier. It impacts everything—from speed and cost to employee engagement, innovation, and well-being. Trust is learnable. It’s not a fixed trait but a developable competency that can be cultivated with intention and integrity. To influence, be influenced. Understanding someone deeply—until they feel understood—is the doorway to earning trust and leading with impact. Trust creates joy and energy. Neuroscience now backs what many leaders intuitively know: high-trust cultures are not only more productive, they’re more human. In a world of declining trust, being trusted is a differentiator. Leaders and organizations who make trust a goal—not just a tool—gain a significant edge.

In this powerful episode of The WiLD Conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Phil Goodman, founder of Talent Realized, to explore how truly life-giving workplaces don’t just transform organizations—they change lives far beyond the office. Phil shares his journey from doubting founder to trusted advisor, and what it means to build cultures where trust, clarity, and meaningful connection take root. Together, they unpack what happens when leaders slow down, lean into conflict with composure, and prioritize relational strategy as much as business outcomes. Whether you're a founder, executive, or HR leader, this conversation offers a compelling call to reimagine the workplace as a launchpad for community transformation. Leadership Takeaways: Trust Is the Starting Point: Before you can build trust in your organization, you have to grapple with your own self-trust as a leader. Support systems matter—mentors, coaches, and advisors play a critical role in helping you move forward with courage. Treat People Strategy Like Business Strategy: Phil models a fractional Chief People Officer approach—aligning people systems directly with business goals. Leadership is not just about outcomes; it's about the people who get you there. Measure What You Say You Value: If people and culture are truly priorities, they must be monitored like any other key performance indicator. Tools like a trust index can give insight into readiness for change, retention health, and strategic timing. Build Teams That Know Each Other: High performance requires high connection. People don’t just want to be seen for their productivity—they want to be known and valued as whole people. Don’t Avoid the Hard Conversations: Avoiding conflict stunts growth and trust. Leaders must be equipped to have truth-filled, grace-driven conversations that deepen connection and resolve tension. Life-Giving Cultures Ripple Outward: Healthy workplaces don’t just benefit business—they shape families, communities, and the way people show up in every area of life. Leadership is discipleship, and the workplace is a mission field.

In this episode of the WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Dr. Alexis Fink—organizational psychologist, people analytics pioneer, and trusted leader—for a conversation that’s as grounded as it is visionary. Dr. Fink opens up about her recent transition out of a senior role as Meta VP of Analytics and Workforce Strategy—not as a retirement from the work she loves, but a graduation into the next chapter of her calling. Together, we explore how to prepare successors without holding too tightly, how trust and measurement create clarity in chaos, and why the science of work and workers must evolve to meet the fear and fragmentation facing organizations today. With over 30 years in I/O Psychology and as the outgoing President of SIOP Society for Industrial Organization Psychology, Dr. Fink shares what it takes to build a legacy that outlives your tenure—one rooted in integrity, clarity, and compassion. Whether you’re a founder, an HR leader, or just trying to lead with intention through uncertainty, this conversation is for you. 📌 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS Succession isn’t optional: Preparing others to lead after you isn’t a side task—it’s your most lasting leadership work. Measurement drives clarity: Defining what matters forces the hard but necessary conversations about values, strategy, and what’s possible. Trust is earned in the in-between: Especially in uncertain times, consistent action and honest boundaries build the credibility that trust depends on. Play it safe, miss the upside: Anxiety and fear limit innovation—leaders must create safety if they want boldness. You’re not done: Leadership transitions don’t mark the end. They mark a turning point. You may leave a role, but the calling often goes with you. 🔗 Listen to: The Evolution of Leadership Development here: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-xi7h8-15bbbd2 🔗 Learn more: https://www.wildleaders.org/ 🔗 Download the State of Trust at Work Report : https://info.wildleaders.org/state-of-trust-report-registration-0