What is Pathological Demand Avoidance with Liesel Smal
From Wonderfully Wired by Eloise Leher
November 3, 2025 · 49 min
About this episode
This episode explores Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) through the insights of Liesel Smal, focusing on its implications for children and parents.
Dive into the critical world of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) in Part 1 of this essential two-part series with Liesel Smal, an Occupational Therapist (OT) and mom of a PDA child Liesel introduces PDA as a specific neurotype that requires "good accommodation" due to the serious "gravity" of the diagnosis. Learn why avoidance is rooted in an inability ("I can't"), not a choice, often manifesting as an "inner straitjacket " or a "contraction" in the nervous system. This episode exposes the confusing reality of masking ; children often appear "compliant and good" or "high achieving" at school, only to experience severe "Coke bottle" meltdowns at home. Liesel offers a compassionate nervous system lens, validating parents who feel blamed or gaslighted. This discussion highlights how PDA is tied to a pervasive drive for autonomy and how understanding this difference is crucial for supporting these "uniquely brilliant" and autodidactic children. #PDA #PathologicalDemandAvoidance #AutismSpectrum #Neurodiversity #NervousSystem #SomaticExperiencing #LowDemandParenting #DemandAvoidance #Masking #WonderfullyWired
People in this episode
Host: Eloise Leher
Guest: Liesel Smal
Topics covered
- Pathological Demand Avoidance
- neurodiversity
- autonomy
- parenting
- nervous system
- masking
Keywords
- Pathological Demand Avoidance
- PDA
- neurotype
- autonomy
- masking
- nervous system
- parenting
- autodidactic
- children
Mentioned in this episode
Organizations: Occupational Therapist
More episodes of Wonderfully Wired
- Executive Function Skill in the Classroom with Dr Laurie Faith · March 18, 2026 · 1h 5m
- Faster than normal brains require better brakes with Peter Shankman · February 2, 2026 · 1h 3m
- A roadmap for exhausted parents with Will Acuff · January 5, 2026 · 1h 6m
- Radical Acceptance & Repair: The Inner Work Required to Support PDA with Liesel Smal · December 1, 2025 · 47 min
- Curating Pathways of Care with the Neurodiversity Centre's Corneil Claassen · September 1, 2025 · 57 min
- Living Wonderfully Wired as a young adult with Juju and Sophia · July 11, 2025 · 56 min
Explore listener stats, chart rankings, contacts and more on the Wonderfully Wired podcast page.