AND/BOTH Podcast - Real Conversations, Shared Experiences, and the Community You've Been Missing

Sam Kelly was making a Saturday morning to-do list for her kids on a Friday night when it hit her. She’d just spent a year teaching her husband not to rely on her to notice what needed to be done — and here she was, about to hand her children the same broken script. She dropped the marker, went to bed, and the next morning introduced her family to Notice and Do.Two years later she has a book deal with Harper Collins, a viral online platform, and a method that’s helping burned-out mothers around the world finally get their families off the sidelines. In this conversation, Ashley and Sam talk about the mental load, the burnout loop, intergenerational cycle-breaking, and what it actually looks like to teach kids — including neurodivergent ones — to be a real part of the family team.In This EpisodeThe Friday night moment that sparked the Notice and Do methodWhat Notice and Do actually is — and how it differs from a chore chartThe Big Three — Sam’s daily structure for kids of any age or abilityThe learning ladder — why perfection isn’t the point and every rung countsTeaching neurodivergent kids to notice — and why it works even when nothing else hasThe five cycle-breaking conversations — age-appropriate language for mental load, burnout, and equityWhy rage cleaning is never really about the messy kitchenThe burnout loop — quarterly mommy meltdowns, putting your head down, and repeatWhy self care isn’t enough — and why supportive care needs to be the new conversationWhat it’s like to teach an adult partner versus teaching kids — and why those are completely separate thingsThe full circle moment: how Notice and Do liberated Sam enough to write the bookHow to approach this when your kids just don’t care — and why that’s actually fineWhat she hopes the next generation looks like when this work takes holdQuotes From This Episode“Mental load is a whole family issue. Whole family issues require whole family solutions.”— Sam Kelly“Supportive care needs to be the new self care. Who is caring for the mom?”— Sam Kelly“It’s not about the messy kitchen. It’s about what that mess is triggering underneath — feeling taken for granted, feeling lonely, feeling unseen.”— Sam Kelly“This pain ends with us. This ends here and now.”— Sam Kelly“Notice and Do liberated me enough to create this book. And if it can liberate me at that level, it can liberate anyone.”— Sam KellyResources & LinksNotice and Do (Harper Collins, pre-order now)Instagram: @samkelly_worldAudio course: available via Sam’s Instagram linkRequest at your local library and indie bookstoreConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

Burnout doesn’t always show up as falling apart.Sometimes it looks like holding everything together for too long.In this episode of AND/BOTH, Ashley sits down with Sarah Smith — founder of Iconoclast Innovations, mom of two, and self-described iconoclast — for a deeply honest conversation about motherhood, mental health, and rebuilding yourself after burnout.Sarah shares her experience navigating postpartum anxiety and depression during the pandemic, being laid off multiple times, starting a business while pregnant, and learning how to advocate for herself in a system that often loses sight of mothers after birth.Together, Ashley and Sarah talk about identity shifts after becoming a parent, why burnout is information (not failure), how community and support can be lifesaving, and what it really means to choose yourself and your family — even when it’s messy.This episode is for anyone who has ever wondered: Why does this feel so hard — and am I the only one struggling?You’re not alone. And you’re not doing it wrong.Connect with Sarah:Website: https://iconoclastinnovationsllc.com/Connect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

What if fertility and reproductive health were treated like skincare or mental health, something we talked about before it became a crisis?In this episode of AND/BOTH, Ashley sits down with Sam Diamond, co‑founder of Bird & Be, to talk about building a clinically‑backed fertility company in the middle of a global pandemic, and why proactive, inclusive fertility care matters more than ever.Sam shares the deeply personal experiences that shaped Bird & Be’s mission, including miscarriage, fertility treatment, and the gaps she saw in education, access, and support for both women and men. Together, Ashley and Sam explore why fertility conversations are still too reactive, how male fertility remains stigmatized, and what it looks like to build a company rooted in science, ethics, and care.They also talk about:Launching a startup during COVID — and why at‑home testing was harder than expectedWhy male fertility must be part of every fertility conversationThe shift from “cute” branding to clarity as Bird & Be entered retailWhat it took to land Bird & Be in Ulta — and why placement matteredHow early education and testing can shorten or even prevent long fertility journeysWhy women are not “small men” — and how research still fails women’s bodiesBlending motherhood and entrepreneurship without pretending it’s balancedThis is a conversation about health, agency, science, and building systems that actually support people, not just sell to them.Connect with Sam: Bird&Be site: https://birdandbe.com/Connect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this solo episode, I’m taking a moment to pause, look back on Season 9, and share what’s coming as we head into a new year and our tenth season of the AND/BOTH podcast.This season brought so many meaningful conversations on the mental load, the realities of modern motherhood, how we build community, what comfort and safety look like in hard seasons, and the ways we try (and often fail) to carry less than we’re used to. We also continued our roundtable series, with thoughtful, deeply resonant conversations about grief and holiday burnout that so many of you reached out about.I talk through:The themes that kept surfacing across episodesWhat these conversations revealed about burnout, expectations, and the pace we’re all trying to keepThe “colander list” moment with my friend Meg and why it hit me squarely in the chestWhat it’s been like to grow a tech company, run a podcast, and raise four kids during a very full seasonWhy we’re taking a short break before Season 10What you can expect when we return in the new yearAnd I share an invitation: if you’ve listened to the show and haven’t yet heard your version of motherhood reflected, I would love to bring more voices and stories into the mix. You can submit a guest interest form at andbothpodcast.com.We’ll be back in January with Season 10—rested, reset, and ready for the next chapter.Wishing you a holiday season with at least one hot coffee, a moment of actual rest, and something small that fills your cup.Connect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, I’m joined by Brea Starmer, founder of Lions & Tigers, a company she started after being laid off while seven months pregnant and serving as her family’s primary income. What began as survival quickly became a new way of thinking about work: flexible, skilled, sustainable, and built around real life.We talk about the myth of stability in traditional employment, why so many women and caregivers are pushed to the margins, and how blended teams and fractional work are giving people more agency than ever before.And of course, we talk about the real-life side of it all- parenting, logistics, exhaustion, boundaries, and the seasons where everything feels like “a lot”… and also deeply purposeful.In this episode:The layoff that sparked Lions & TigersHow Brea built her own maternity leave through freelance workWhy blended teams are becoming essential in enterprise companiesHow AI, caregiving, and shifting workplace norms are reshaping careersWhat it actually looks like to build a business while raising three kidsThe skill of knowing what’s worth your time (and what you can let fall through the colander)Connect with Brea:Lions & Tigers: lionsandtigers.comWorkforce Reimagined studyConnect with Brea on LinkedInConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, I sit down with Kendra Koch, the founder of Divergently, a private community built for late-diagnosed neurodivergent women who want clarity, support, and a softer landing than the internet usually offers.Kendra came to this work through her own late diagnosis, years spent in the Silicon Valley wellness world, and a growing sense that the tools available to neurodivergent women were either too shallow, too loud, or too overwhelming to actually use. What started as her personal search for answers eventually became Divergently- a curated, trauma-aware space built to help women understand themselves and make daily life feel less chaotic and more doable.We cover a lot in this conversation, including:What it feels like to receive a diagnosis later in lifeWhy so many women only start connecting the dots after their kids begin evaluationsThe emotional and logistical realities of navigating care, systems, stigma, and uncertaintyHow trauma keeps showing up in ways many of us don’t expectThe difference between “having information” and actually being supportedWhy “just disclose at work” isn’t simple — or safe — advice for everyoneHow creating boundaries inside a community can be what makes it truly inclusiveThe small, practical shifts that make life less prickly: body doubling, environmental tweaks, lowering the bar in smart, supportive waysAnd how Kendra is building a company while raising a young child, healing, and moving at a pace that fits her real life — not the one hustle culture demandsThis conversation is thoughtful, honest, and full of moments that made me rethink how we support ourselves and each other. If you’ve ever felt like something wasn’t quite adding up, or you’ve been searching for a place that feels safe and steady, you’ll feel seen here.Where to find Kendra:Website: joinedivergently.comSocial: @joinedivergentlyLinkedIn: Kendra KochConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

In this episode, I sit down with Jennifer Westpfahl, founder of Be.Retreats, to talk about what it looks like to build a life and a business that make space for rest, intention, stillness, and connection — and how those four pillars spell something else entirely: RISK.Jennifer shares the winding story of how B-Retreats came to life, not from a business plan or a strategic vision, but from a feeling that just wouldn’t go away. What began as a simple women’s weekend at a cabin has evolved into a growing series of in-person and virtual retreats designed to help people slow down, reconnect, and live with more authenticity.We talk about:🌿 The unexpected journey of saying “yes” to something before you have it all figured out💛 How rest can feel risky in a world that glorifies busyness🪞 The identity shifts that come with motherhood, empty nests, and growing older🔥 Why community and connection matter more than perfection🕯️ And what it really means to stop — not just pause — and allow yourself to beConnect with Jennifer:Website: beretreats.coInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/jmwestpfahl/Be.Retreats Instagram: @beretreatsmnConnect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/

This roundtable sits in the tender middle where grief and everyday life meet. Abby shares losing her sister—her person—and how that reshaped motherhood, work, and identity. Katie reflects on losing her dad unexpectedly and the decade-long evolution of grief that led to her new book, Grief Cookies and Other Comforting Things. Together we talk language (what helps, what harms), parenting through loss, making meaning without forcing timelines, and building rituals that let our people stay present in our lives.In this episode: When the world keeps spinning: That frozen-in-time feeling after loss—and how to function when the calendar won’t wait.Permission to feel both: Joy and sorrow coexisting; why “time heals” isn’t the whole story.Words that help (and don’t): Moving beyond “there are no words”; simple phrases that land with care.Parenting & grief: Telling the truth at kid-level; navigating family trees, school projects, and curious classmates.Rituals that root us: Ofrendas, Día de los Muertos, photo traditions, quilts from loved ones’ clothes, and everyday anchors (toast with cream cheese & jelly).Coping vs. numbing: Movement, nature, journaling/blogging, creative outlets—and how compartmentalizing can be a short-term tool, not a forever plan.Community & support: Why we shouldn’t do grief alone; finding your “me too” people.Identity shifts: Career pivots, creative work, and the exfoliation of “shoulds” after loss.Practical Practices You Can TrySay something simple: “This sucks. I’m here with you.” / “I don’t know what to say, but I’m not going anywhere.”Micro-comforts: Warm drink, a short walk, fresh air on your face, a favorite song—tiny signals of safety to your nervous system.Ritualize remembrance: A photo on the mantle, a yearly ofrenda, a recipe they loved, a shared song—light, repeatable touchpoints.Kid-level honesty: Offer age-appropriate truth, answer questions directly, and let the story grow with them.Name the cycle: “This wave will pass. Another may come. We can ride them together.”Key TakeawaysGrief doesn’t vanish; it changes shape. Some years are softer, some spike. Both are normal.Language matters. Avoid timelines and silver linings; choose presence over fixes.Compartmentalizing can help you move through the day—return to the feelings when you have capacity.Traditions keep people with us. Rituals don’t need to be fancy to be meaningful.You don’t have to do this alone. Support—professional, peer, spiritual, creative—lightens the lift.Loss can catalyze aligned living—a clearer yes, a braver no, a gentler pace.About Our GuestsAbby Waychoff — Mom, OT by training, and current mental health counseling grad student. After losing her sister, Abby’s work and life pivoted toward grief, meaning-making, and aligned living.Katie Huey — Coach, writer, and facilitator focusing on language for hard things. Author of Grief Cookies and Other Comforting Things: Finding Beauty in Life After Loss (Pub day: today in the episode timeline). Creates spaces to hold both sorrow and joy.Resources MentionedGrief Cookies and Other Comforting Things — Katie HueyDía de los Muertos / ofrenda traditions (inspired by the film Coco)David Kessler on meaning-making in grief (the “after” grief)Content NoteThis episode includes open discussion of death and suicide (Ashley’s father). Please take care while listening and pause as needed.If You’re Grieving Right NowYou are not alone. Consider: a trusted friend, a local grief support group, a therapist, or national resources in your country. In the U.S., if you’re in crisis, call/text 988.Connect with Ashley:Website: https://www.ashleyblackington.comPodcast website: https://www.andbothpodcast.com/Dovetail® App: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dovetail-app/id6744341822Instagram: @mydovetail.appLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyblackington/