Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

If you’re like me, a child of the 80s, you grew up watching Star Wars. I understood a lot about Star Wars but what I didn’t understand at the time was how political it was. The empire and the rebellion. Resistance. Fighting for the underdog and the oppressed. Fighting for an alternative way of being that is not dictated by empire. One of my goals with this podcast is to create a diverse platform of voices within the church. Voices on the margins. Artists on the margins. Theologians on the margins. One of those important voices is author and Cuban-American theologian Kat Armas. One of my favorite books this year is her new book Liturgies for Resisting Empire.   This is a conversation about reimagination. Decolonization. Reclaiming agency. Seeing the beauty in humanity in dehumanizing times. There’s a lot here, but the entire conversation is worth your time if you like to be challenged, stretched, and gain perspective from a different vantage point in a global and diverse Christianity. Topics Covered: The importance of listening to marginalized people Deconstruction vs Decolonization How the Bible is co-opted in support of various political agendas Why The United States of America can’t be de-colonized How to resist empire Global missions and colonialism How to care for those who have deconstructed their faith Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Liturgies for Resisting Empire by Kat Armas Abuelita Faith by Kat Armas Sacred Belonging by Kat Armas Bewilderment by Richard Powers Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #394: Empire, Resistance, and Faith On The Margins with Kat Armas appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

If you’re a worship leader, you plan services. It comes with the territory. It’s part of the job. Most of the time, that comes down to picking songs. But what are we missing in our churches when service planning, programming, and worship leading is reduced to merely picking songs? W. David O. Taylor is Associate Professor of Theology & Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary as well as the director of various initiatives in worship, theology and the arts. He teaches courses in systematic theology, art and worship, art and theology, art and beauty, spiritual formation through the psalms, and theology and science fiction. He is the author of the books Glimpses of The New Creation, Prayers for the Pilgrimage, A Body of Praise, Open & Unafraid, as well as the upcoming book To Set the World Aflame: How Artists Bear Witness to the Fullness of God’s Creation. David is a deep well of wisdom when it comes to worship and the arts. What I love about this conversation is he helps us see more expansive view of what worship is and can be in the church.  We discuss why artists are necessary and how they help us see more of God. The value of silence in our gatherings. The kinds of songs we need to be singing today. Why the predominant worship model today isn’t wrong, but inadequate. You can reach me anytime at david@beyondsundayworship.com. Thank you for listening. Topics Covered: The difference between formation and experience in worship Why our current model of worship experiences isn’t wrong, but inadequate The value of silence in our gatherings Why we need artists in the church Creative ways to introduce silence, reflection, and community in our worship spaces The kinds of songs the church needs to be singing today Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Glimpses of the New Creation by W. David O. Taylor Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #382: Uncommon & Creative Ways to Reimagine Your Worship Services with W. David O. Taylor appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

This is an episode for the ministry underdog. There are some unwritten, unhelpful rules about worship ministry and Christian music that we need to say out loud. You’re too old. Your voice isn’t strong enough. You’re too overweight. Your style isn’t what we’re going for. You can’t be the face of the ministry. Of course, we don’t say these things out loud, most of the time. But it appears that too often our modus operandi is to be attractive and impressive, beautiful. How are we going to sell the most records? Who is going to draw people to our church? The longer we operate with these cultural values, the more we sideline great leaders and harm them in the process. I’m not advocating anyone could be a worship leader. Obviously, there are skill standards. But how far is too far when it comes to talent, image, beauty, and age? At what point have we abandoned kingdom values for profit, power, and influence? Calvin Nowell is my guest today. Calvin is a songwriter, worship leader, and singer who has sung with many of the top names in Christian Music. Calvin also leads a diverse music collective called Aware Worship that is bringing awareness to the people side of ministry. This is vulnerable conversation. We talk about the dark sides of the industry, stigma in ministry, supporting the underdog, and looking for Jesus on the margins. Tears were shed. The presence of God was felt. Trust me, you will be encouraged. My name is David Santistevan. As always, thanks for listening. You can reach me anytime at david@beyondsundayworship.com. Topics Covered: Calvin’s journey as a worship leader The reality of starting music later in life Why we shouldn’t be afraid of frequent new songs Why diversity is important How the Christian music industry needs to change Why God still has a plan for you The struggle of weight and image as a worship leader Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Aware Worship Instagram.com/calvinnowell Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #380: Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

What is the future of worship leading? How important are worship leaders and how will that role continue to develop in the future? No one really knows, but it’s worth reflecting on. My guest today is Martha Munizzi – veteran gospel artist, songwriter, worship leader and co-pastor at epic life church in Orlando. This is an interesting conversation because Martha has the perspective of a worship leader and a pastor. We talk about the tension of excellent worship experiences as it relates to church growth and simple congregational worship where the voice of the people take center stage. Practical ways to do simple worship without losing excellence. We talk about the beauty of gospel music and where it’s headed. How to empower young worship leaders and what the older generation can learn from them. We also hear the story of how Martha brilliantly forced her way onto my podcast. It’s kind of hilarious. Topics Covered: How Martha got started in music Why Martha decided to write and pursue gospel music Why worship is so important How to empower younger worship leaders How to simplify worship in a production-heavy age The future of Gospel music The story behind Martha’s new project, “Church is Revival” Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Church is Revival by Martha Munizzi Epic Life Church Martha Munizzi website Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #378: Why It’s OK To Simplify Our Worship Experiences with Martha Munizzi appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

One of my goals with this podcast is not simply to talk about the spiritual but also the systemic. One could argue that the two are actually intertwined. Can Christian spirituality thrive in the midst of a toxic system? Is it possible to be formed opposite the ways of Jesus while using the name of Jesus? These are important questions to wrestle with and hold up to cultural Christianity today. We must talk about the cultural systems we are shaped by. That’s not divisive or an attack of the enemy. The truth always shines a light. And the truth will always lead us to greater unity, even if some systems we’ve held dear need to come down. Part of being a faithful follower of Jesus in the world is paying attention to what is of God and what is not. And that’s why I wanted to have a conversation with my friend Phillip Joubert. Phillip is an artist with Common Hymnal, one of my favorite Christian artist collectives out there right now. They are making music that is a refreshing counterpoint to popular Christian music today. It’s Jesus AND justice. It’s praise AND protest. It’s worship music that is rooted in the goodness of God but with a grip on the reality of our world. Phillip is a truth teller. A prophet, you might say. The voice of someone who spots trends and speaks with moral clarity and biblical conviction. Topics Covered: Why praise and protest are needed in our spiritual formation Why worship culture tends to be tone deaf Why we need to decolonize our theology of success A different alternative to an industry of worship The importance of understanding whiteness as a culture Why America needs to be seen as a religion Thoughts on Bad Bunny and rival Super Bowl halftime shows What we can learn from the Maverick City controversy Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Phillip Joubert Common Hymmal Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #376: An Honest Look At The Systems That Shape The Church In America with Phillip Joubert appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Part of my desire with this podcast is to highlight voices – important voices that may not break through into the Christian mainstream, but powerful and necessary voices nonetheless. One of those voices is the Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III, pastor of Trinity Church of Christ in Chicago. Dr Moss is a pastor, author, theologian, filmmaker and one of the very best preachers in America today. And I say that without hyperbole. In this interview I talk with Dr. Moss about the black theological tradition, the black church, black music history, black worship, and what the global church can learn from this heroic, innovative, beautiful expression of the church today. This is an important conversation. A necessary conversation for racial unity and moral clarity in polarizing times where history is at risk of being either forgotten or rewritten. Dr. Moss is an amazing communicator. This conversation is full of history, theology, stories, culture, and the celebration of innovative people throughout history. This isn’t just about political cheap shots. This is a celebration of the diversity and beauty of God. Topics Covered: The story of Dr. Moss’s call to ministry and his early career aspirations Why Dr. Moss and his church is “unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian” Why “black theology” is a helpful categorization What America can learn about democracy from jazz music Why politics is not about right or left What is happening in Chicago right now and why the church can’t stay silent Why every pastor needs a mentor outside of their cultural tradition What pastors can learn from professional athletes Otis’ favorite books, movies, & documentaries Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III (website) Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III (instagram) Trinity United Church of Christ Jesus And The Disinherited by Howard Thurman The Souls of Black Folk by W.E.B. Du Bois Poetry Unbound: 50 Poems to Open Your World by Padraig O Tuama The New Abolition: W.E.B. Du Bois and the Black Social Gospel by Gary Dorrien Black in Blues: How a Color Tells the Story of My People by Imani Perry Dancing in the Darkness: Spiritual Lessons for Thriving in Turbulent Times by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III Blue Note Preaching in a Post Soul World: Finding Hope in an Age of Despair by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III Otis’ Dream Soundtrack to a Coup d’Etat Daughters of the Dust Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #374: What We Can All Learn From The Theological And Musical Tradition Of The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

I’ve said for years that being a senior pastor is one of the most difficult jobs in the world. Yes, you have the responsibility to shepherd people and preach the Word of God. And when growth comes fast, you are forced to become a CEO of a corporation, in addition to pastoring people. You all of a sudden have a large staff and financial pressures that weigh heavily. But even more challenging – in my opinion – is pastoring in America where – for many Americans – faith is tied to their politics. This was no more evident in the wake of the terrible assassination of Charlie Kirk. If you were paying attention, you could see every imaginable reaction to his death in pulpits across America. A week after this happened, I invited my friend Alan Hannah to have a conversation. Alan is the Lead Pastor of a historic, thriving multicultural church in the city of Pittsburgh called ACAC – Allegheny Center Alliance Church. I didn’t want to throw around opinions about Charlie Kirk as much as I wanted to talk about how do we pastor people in a polarizing political climate? ACAC is a true multicultural church – diverse ethnically, socio-economically, and very diverse politically. Prior to Alan becoming the senior pastor, ACAC had been on a significant journey in the 90s of addressing white supremacy and racist ideologies in their church. At the time, ACAC was predominantly white and looked nothing like the community they were called to serve. Repentance, courageous vision, and education went a long way. And today, ACAC continues to fight for their missions statement: following Jesus in diverse community. This conversation is a little bit about Charlie Kirk, but it’s more about disentangling Jesus from our politics to realize the enemy is not on the other side of the voting bloc. How do we pastor people in cultural moments like this in a biblical way? How do we address racism as a church? What does it take to actually become a health multicultural church? I’ll give you a hint: it’s more than hiring a black worship leader. Alan and I discuss this and so much more in this insightful, balanced, pastoral conversation. Topics Covered: The journey from Worship & Creative Pastor to Lead Pastor Transitioning from a white, suburban, homogenous church to an inner city, multicultural environment The cliche answer to ministry fruitfulness that shouldn’t be a cliche The troubled and difficult history of ACAC and how they began to embrace diversity as a church How to address racism as a multicultural congregation How to pastor republicans and democrats in the same church Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center ACAC Jesus Outside the Lines by Scott Sauls Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #372: How To Pastor Your Church Through Polarizing Political Times with Pastor Alan Hannah appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today’s conversation is with historian, author, and activist Dr. Jemar Tisby. Early in 2025 I decided to read more history. Call it curiosity or wanting more context to our current political moment, I started to devour books about the Civil War and eventually more books about the Civil Rights era. One of those books was The Color of Compromise: The Truth About the American Church’s Complicity in Racism. And to be honest, I was blown away by this book. Mainly because I had never learned this stuff growing up. I’d learned history…but I hadn’t learned this history. Why does this matter? I believe to my core that if we are unwilling to face and reckon with the darker parts of our history, we will continue to make the same mistakes. A quote that has been attributed to Mark Twain: History may not repeat itself but it does rhyme. We are living in an incredibly dangerous and polarizing political moment in America. And like Jemary Tisby says in our podcast…what happens in culture is downstream of what happens in the church. So we’re going to face some hard truths today. Reckon with some hard truths. And come out better on the other side. Jamar is a brilliant scholar and teacher. He’s bold yet gracious. And I’m excited to share this conversation with you today. As always, thank you for listening. This is David Santistevan and you can reach out to me at any time at david@beyondsundayworship.com Topics Covered: Jamar’s salvation story in the white evangelical church What the Mississippi Delta teaches us about American racism The church’s complicity in racism throughout history Doug Wilson and the spread of racist ideology The unique atrocity of American race-based, chattel slavery Why leftist, Marxist, DEI deflections are lazy and don’t make sense Racial bias in the Christian Music industry Resources Mentioned Jemar Tisby Substack The Color of Compromise: The Truth About The American Church’s Complicity in Racism by Jamar Tisby The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, & Resistance by Jamar Tisby Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. The post #370: The Truth About The American Church’s Complicity in Racism (And Where We Go From Here) with Jemar Tisby appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.