co-regulation

Sky Fusco and Holly wrestle with fundamental questions about the role of the artist in times of crisis: Who gets to claim the title of artist? Is making art "enough" or should creative people abandon their practices to become EMTs and nurses? The conversation explores the existential doubt that plagues many creatives during unprecedented times, the fantasy of having "useful skills" instead of making vulnerable art, and how Sky uses herself as a guinea pig to give others permission to follow their creative impulses. The discussion evolves into Sky's recent decision to step back from dating men—not from hatred, but from exhaustion with those who refuse to engage in the internal work that women have been doing for decades, while maintaining that love remains her North Star even as she redefines what healthy relationships look like.Topics CoveredArtistic vulnerability and managing consequences of public sharing; writing about real people and relationships; intellectual property and copying in art; living as a full-time artist; claiming the role of an artist; existential questions about usefulness during crises; publicly changing your mind and contradicting previous positions; divesting from dating men and the male gaze; women's exhaustion in patriarchal systems; men's avoidance of feminist education and internal work; hetero-pessimism and relationship refusal; love as antidote to pessimism; redefining love and being the change you want to see.Sky Fusco BioSky Fusco is an artist working across drawing, painting, writing, and a public practice she calls Internet Caretaking. Her commercial studio, ROCK SHOP, is located in Morro Bay, California. Her Substack, Unsupervised, has over 25 thousand readers, and makes frequent stops at topics like relationships, personal histories, living in community, creativity, technology, addiction, self-actualization, and navigating the digital Anthropocene as an artist. Sky took an unconventional educational path before claiming her artist identity at 27, Sky makes her living entirely through creative practice. Her visual work features bold emotional declarations, including the piece "We've been having feelings for years, they're perfectly safe." Her writing explores artistic courage, relationships, and contemporary women's experiences with sharp observation and visceral honesty. Sky's work serves as permission for others to follow their creative impulses, change their minds publicly, and use their lives as ongoing experiments in authenticity while maintaining love as a guiding principle.Sky's Substack; Sky's websiteCreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducers: Holly Whitaker, Adam Day, Kate SinesOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.comTranscript Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the second part of Holly's deep dive with Meg Josephson, they shift from understanding fawning to working with it. Continuing their exploration of Meg's book "Are You Mad At Me?", the conversation explores perfectionism as a protective mechanism, "secondhand fawning" through others, and the core shame beliefs that drive these patterns. Meg explains how healing happens through secure relationships and offers a compassionate framework for understanding these survival mechanisms. Holly reflects on how recognizing her fawn response has been foundational to her healing journey.Topics CoveredThe fawn trauma response and what it looks like; The six fawn archetypes (peacekeeper, caretaker, perfectionist, performer, chameleon, lone wolf); Complex relational trauma vs. single-incident trauma; How fawning develops as a survival mechanism in volatile homes; The intersection of fawning with ADHD and neurodivergence; Why digital communication amplifies "are you mad at me?" feelings; Chronic dysregulation and nervous system impacts; The connection between fawning and masking behaviors; Hypervigilance and external validation-seeking; How fawning shows up in romantic relationships.Meg Josephson BioMeg Josephson is a licensed therapist, meditation teacher, and author of "Are You Mad at Me? A Guide to Caring Less About What People Think." She integrates mindfulness-based practices with trauma-informed therapy, specializing in the fawn trauma response. After recognizing her own chronic hypervigilance patterns in her twenties, she discovered meditation during concussion recovery and pursued graduate training in therapy. Her work focuses on complex relational trauma and helping clients develop self-compassion for protective patterns that no longer serve them.Meg’s new book Are You Mad At Me? Is out now. She writes the Substack Peace of Mind. You can follow Meg on Instagram and TikTok.CreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducers: Holly Whitaker, Adam DayOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.com Transcript available on patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Holly and Laura sit down for their first public conversation in seven years, since the abrupt end of their previous podcast, Home, after a falling out. Peeling back the layers of what is, for each of them, their most complicated creative partnership and friendship. What started as two women finding each other on Instagram in 2013, who wanted to talk about sobriety and alcohol, became the wildly successful Home Podcast, a deep friendship, and eventually a painful, public dissolution that left both women changed forever. Now, after multiple reconciliations and breakups, they've found their way back to each other—not as business partners or co-hosts, but as friends who've done the hard work of growing up. This raw conversation explores the messy intersection of trauma, creativity, competition, and love, offering a rare glimpse into what it looks like when two people refuse to give up on each other despite repeatedly hurting each other in the process.Topics coveredMeeting on Instagram in early sobriety; the birth of Home Podcast in 2015; being two women talking about recovery in ways no one else was; rapid success and community building; the impossible dynamics of creative partnership between two traumatized people; patterns of competition and jealousy; the first breakup and reconciliation; the final dissolution of Home Podcast in January 2018; years of mutual obsession and surveillance from afar; failed attempts at reunion around book launches; the role of public success and private failure; learning to see each other's survival mechanisms; cord-cutting ceremonies and spiritual interventions; multiple cycles of coming together and falling apart; the 2025 reconciliation weekend; the difference between creative partnership and friendship; aging out of ambition; post-material achievement disillusionment; trauma responses that look like abuse; the challenge of being seen accurately; the rare gift of creative collaboration; narcissistic abuse patterns; the cost of cutting people off; what it means to grow up in public.BioLaura is the author of the bestselling memoir, We Are The Luckiest: The Surprising Magic of a Sober Life and Push Off From Here: Nine Essential Truths to Get You Through Life (and Everything Else), March 2023. She's working on her third book. She has written for The New York Times and has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, The Atlantic, the TODAY show, and more. In 2020, she founded The Luckiest Club, a global sobriety support community. Laura lives with her daughter on the North Shore of Boston and writes the stellar newsletter Love Story.CreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducers: Holly Whitaker, Adam DayOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Erica Chidi shares her unique perspective on navigating crisis and uncertainty, drawing from her formative years in post-apartheid South Africa and her work as a doula, author, and founder. She discusses how current global events represent a collective consciousness shift where "everybody's here now," forcing those who previously remained disconnected to engage with reality. Erica offers practical wisdom on nervous system regulation during turbulent times, emphasizing presence over emotional labeling and the critical importance of sleep, movement, and community. She advocates for "narrow and deep" activism—becoming obsessive about one specific cause rather than spreading thin—and shares how her neurodivergent traits, including "chaotic discipline," serve as adaptive superpowers during uncertain times. Throughout the discussion, she weaves together lessons from growing up amid post-apartheid violence with actionable tools for moving through crisis with intention, including her concept of developing an "inner metronome" through personal rituals and the power of treating words as spells that shape our reality.Topics coveredCrisis navigation and nervous system regulation; post-apartheid South Africa lessons for current times; "narrow and deep" activism strategy; neurodivergent strengths during chaos; chaotic discipline and adaptive capabilities; sleep hygiene as non-negotiable foundation; movement for emotional processing; inner metronome development through personal rituals; financial and energetic discernment; local action and community building; words as spells and language's impact on reality; strategic escapism versus dissociation; embracing friction while staying present; creative expression during systemic dysfunction; managing multiple mental health diagnoses while maintaining presenceAbout EricaErica Chidi is a writer, strategist, and health educator with a background as a full-spectrum doula. She’s the co-founder and former CEO of LOOM, a women’s health app acquired by Perelel Health, and the author of Nurture, a beloved guide to pregnancy, birth, and early motherhood. Her work has appeared in The New York Times and Vogue, and she’s been featured in The Cut, Kinfolk, and more. She also spent two years co-hosting The goop Podcast, leading conversations at the intersection of wellbeing and culture. These days, she splits her time between innovation consulting, developing television through her creative studio ISE ISE (pronounced “ee-say ee-say”), and writing Soft Boundaries—a Substack of personal essays, soothing tools, and useful advice for softly exploring your inner world.CreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducers: Holly Whitaker, Adam DayOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.comSupport the showco-regulation is listener-supported! You can support us by joining our Patreon community patreon.com/coregulationTranscripthttps://www.patreon.com/posts/133600127/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Producer note: The term 'feministing' was coined by Jessica Vlenti for her groundbreaking feminist blog Feministing.com (2004-2019), which was instrumental in shaping online feminist discourse during the height of feminist digital media.Holly sits down with feminist writer and author Amanda Montei to explore what it means to be Outspoken Intellectual Feminist in what feels like the height of feminist backlash. Montei, author of "Touched Out," opens up about her recent divorce, the collapse of feminist movements, and how she's navigating the intersection of personal upheaval and political crisis. The discussion delves into the challenges of writing under authoritarianism, the exhaustion that comes with constant resistance, and finding hope amidst the acceleration of anti-feminist backlash. Montei shares her evolution from academic writer to cultural critic, her commitment to teaching, and her decision to pivot toward more nuanced and aesthetic interpretations of our moment, rather than offering hot takes. This intimate conversation captures the complexity of maintaining feminist work when the world feels like it's falling apart.Topics coveredFeminist writing in the Trump 2.0; divorce, marriage critique; collapse of feminist media; anti-feminism in liberal spaces; motherhood + patriarchal structures; misogyny in the 2024 election; cancel culture myths; the commodification of feminism; academic vs. public intellectual work; teaching as resistance; personal vs. political writing; fear + surveillance concerns; community building during crisis; the nuclear family as capitalist invention; movement fragmentation; artistic response to authoritarianism; protecting creative work; privilege and responsibility; collective vs. individual action; finding hope in dark times; the exhaustion of resistance work; white supremacy and patriarchy connections; memoir writing and self-revelationAboutAmanda Montei has a PhD in English literature from SUNY at Buffalo and an MFA in Writing from California Institute of the Arts. She is also the author of Two Memoirs and Touched Out. Her essays and criticism have appeared at Slate, Vox, The Rumpus, Ms. Magazine blog, American Book Review, and others. She teaches writing and lives in California. She writes the Substack Mad Woman and is the co-host of the podcast Dire Straights (CHECK IT OUT)CreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducers: Holly Whitaker, hollywhitaker.com; Adam DayOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.comSupport the showco-regulation is listener-supported! You can support us by joining our Patreon community patreon.com/coregulationTranscriptAvailable on patreon.com/coregulation Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Holly reconnects with her friend and former podcast co-host (Quitted) Emily McDowell for a raw conversation about how extreme adversity can strip away everything that doesn't matter and reveal what does. After years of health crises, family loss, and business transitions, Emily describes arriving at a place of No Fucks Given that feels like coming home to herself. Together, they explore what it means to build real community, trust your body's wisdom, and stop proving yourself to the world.Topics covered include how selling her business and facing health challenges (brain tumor, autoimmune thyroid condition) led Emily to question everything; the impact of her mother's sudden death on her relationship with money, work, and pleasure; Holly's parallel journey of family awakening and learning to trust her body over her mind; practical strategies for building intentional adult friendships with agreements and conflict resolution; the difference between self-love and self-friendship; why real community is inconvenient but necessary; discernment in relationships without guilt; and the shift from constantly striving to arriving in your own life.About Emily McDowellAs an advisor, thought partner, and coach, Emily McDowell helps entrepreneurs answer the questions they can’t find the answers to. As founder and CEO of the stationery brand Em & Friends, Emily led the brand through explosive growth, and as a writer and illustrator, her work has gone viral countless times, and she has a decade-plus long track record of creating products that make people wonder if she’s been reading their diaries. Emily is also the co-author and illustrator of There Is No Good Card for This: What to Say and Do When Life Gets Scary, Awful, and Unfair to People You Love (HarperOne, 2017), and she offers unsolicited advice and missives from the great adventure of midlife in her newsletter, Subject to Change, a Substack Featured Publication of 2023. You can find her online at withemilymcdowell.com, and IRL in Portland, Oregon.CreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducer: Holly Whitaker, hollywhitaker.comCo-Producers: Adam Day, Afton SwenorOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.comSupport the showco-regulation is listener-supported, made possible by us and by you; you can support this podcast by joining our Patreon community patreon.com/coregulation Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this first episode, Holly talks with Chris La Tray, Métis storyteller, Montana Poet Laureate, and author of the brilliant and timely memoir Becoming Little Shell. Chris shares the story of his people—the Little Shell Tribe, who remained landless for over a century after refusing to accept an exploitative treaty—and what their resilience teaches us about playing the long game in dark times.They discuss why current political upheaval represents familiar patterns to Indigenous peoples who have survived 500 years of colonialism; how Chief Little Shell's principled refusal to accept 10 cents per acre for tribal lands led to 150 years of landlessness before achieving federal recognition in 2019; Chris's evolution from reluctant storyteller to understanding himself as chosen to carry forward his people's narratives; the tension between building a personal writing career and serving community stories; practical acts of cultural reclamation like using Anishinaabe greetings in daily life; the goldfinch story that taught him to stay open to ancestral guidance; what it means to play the long game and build something you may never see completed; moving beyond performative activism toward genuine relationship with Indigenous perspectives; the difference between cultural appropriation and authentic honoring; why asking "what should I do?" isn't the most helpful question for non-Native allies; how individual choices like canceling Netflix connect to larger systemic change; the psychological and spiritual costs of principled dissent across generations; and the responsibility that comes with privilege and platform in storytelling.About Chris La TrayChris La Tray is a Métis storyteller, descendant of the Pembina Band of the Mighty Red River of the North, and enrolled member of the Little Shell Tribe. He served as Montana Poet Laureate from 2023-2025 and has made his living as an artist since 2015. His books include One Sentence Journal and Becoming Little Shell: A Homecoming. He writes the newsletter "An Irritable Métis" on Substack.Substack: https://chrislatray.substack.com/Book: https://milkweed.org/book/becoming-little-shellCreditsOriginal music by Gracie Coates (of Gracie and Rachel) @graciecoates @gracieandrachel on Instagram, gracieandrachel.comSound engineering, editor: Adam Day, adamdayphotography.comProducer: Holly Whitaker, hollywhitaker.comCo-Producers: Adam Day, Afton SwenorOriginal art by Misha Handschumacher, cmisha.comSupport the showco-regulation is listener-supported, made possible by us and by you; you can support this podcast by joining our Patreon community patreon.com/coregulation Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.