Critical Listening

What happens when a private equity company takes over a music festival? For this Critical Listening live taping at the ESNS Conference in Groningen, we spoke with Dutch investigative journalist Henk Willem Smits to unpack this very question. Smits works with the community-supported outlet Follow the Money, specializing in tax avoidance by multinationals and wealthy individuals in music, and the intersections of private equity and electronic music culture. His 2025 piece "Loud Music, Silent Takeovers" specifically looked at the 1.3 billion euros spent by U.S.-based private equity firm KKR on music festivals in recent years. In his reporting, Smits has found that after private equity buys festivals, they can be subject to higher ticket prices, more commercial partnerships, and homogenized lineups driven by Spotify and TikTok data—in order to "tailor lineups more precisely to audience demand," he wrote last year. "A lot of festivals, especially smaller dance festivals, don't have big margins," Smits told us. "It's a very small margin business. So what you see now is management layers getting fired... That is something that happens a lot, but that is not something the audience notices. What also happens is you see some festivals not being organized. Or they skip a year." Below, see some more highlights from our conversation with Smits, which also covered his reporting on the connections between KKR and Israel, and how pop stars use the Netherlands as a tax haven. How else do festivals change when they are acquired by private equity?"They have to increase the margins because they paid a lot of money [for these festivals]... One financial analyst said that if they want to get that money back and also make a profit the [margin] has to raise with 10s of percents a year. That is very ambitious, very, very ambitious.... There is pressure here." What has been the biggest takeaway from your festival reporting?"There is logic to going up into a bigger structure. But when you sell your company, you really don't have anything to say about the ownership anymore... I heard from a manager in music and he said what he learned from the story was that you have to check the whole chain. So you have to check who is behind the festival, but also who's the owner of the festival, and who's the owner of the owner." Are there any open questions for you, still, regarding the relationship between private equity and live music?"I would love to speak to KKR. I would love to know if they regret buying Boiler Room. But they have a sort of policy that they don't talk with the press... which I find strange, because this is a company that has $600 billion of investments. But then you also have, of course, responsibilities. They invest in a company that rents out houses in occupied places in the West Bank. It would be interesting if they could explain, at least, why they think they have to do that. But it's a responsibility they take. They don't see themselves as part of society. They just have to make money."

WE’RE BACK. Today we start the year with a dispatch from what some may call the front lines: a bunch of AI-related panels at a European music biz trade conference. It’s also our first episode recorded in person! We are starting our new season with two episodes recorded in the city of Groningen in the Netherlands, where we were invited to participate on some panels and to host a live taping of the show at the annual conference and festival ESNS. That live taping—an interview with Dutch investigative culture reporter Henk Willem Smits—will drop later in the month. But before then, we have another conversation we recorded while we were in Groningen, reflecting on some panels we saw as well as ones we participated in. Did Max survive his first music industry conference? Did Liz learn anything being on a panel alongside someone from a certain French DSP that has been labeling AI tracks? Why did we choose to attend something called “Automate or Die Trying” when we could have done literally anything else? And why are there never any musicians at these things? All this and more on Episode 11 of Critical Listening. Support the show for access to bonus episodes and our Discord at patreon.com/criticallistening.

We are back for our penultimate episode of Season 1 of Critical Listening! Recorded on November 13th at the coveted Stood at Purchase College, we're discussing the latest developments in the Spotify deal to create "artist first" generative AI tools in partnership with major labels and distributors. We also review the platform's continued growth as it rounds out its second full year of profitability and what that means for both artists and users alike. We have just uploaded the second part of this episode for Patrons only where we take questions directly from the students of Purchase College themselves, sign up now at patreon.com/criticallistening to catch up on the full season and bonus episodes before our season finale at the end of the year! Do you want the Critical Listening team to do a live taping at your college, music venue, conference, record store, or general hang in 2026? Shoot us an email at criticallisteningpod@gmail.com and let's chat!

We’re back with another headlines ep, where Liz and Max each bring one story from across the music-tech biz press to summarize and contextualize. On this ep we are unpacking the imminent major label deals with gen-AI companies. At the time we recorded, those reportedly landmark deals were thought to be signed within weeks, and since recording we’ve already started to see more details emerge. We discussed some implications of Spotify being included on the list of companies major rightsholders are working out gen-AI deals with, and more details of that collaboration have already dropped, too. Lastly, we of course also spoke about what it means that Daniel Ek is stepping back from his role as CEO of Spotify. Thanks for tuning in, remember to support the show by joining our Patreon & head over to the Discord if you want to chat about anything mentioned on the show!

Max & Liz return for another installment of their series diving into some intriguing headlines from across the music, tech and business hellscape. What does it mean for organizations representing independent record labels to be inking deals with gen-AI companies? How are AI-driven tech platforms impacting the realm of music education? Never fear, we’ve got a bloomscroll in there too. Check it out and support the Patreon to join the convo on Discord!

We’re back with the first installment of what we’re calling “Headlines,” diving into a few stories from across the music and tech biz press this month. For July, there were some headlines that just seemed impossible to ignore. You guessed it: Ek’s recent investment into AI weapons company Helsing, and that gen-AI classic rock band with millions of streams. We end by searching the internet far and wide for a glimmer of hope — a “bloomscroll” — so it’s not all gloom and doom. Our goal here is to offer critical context on these stories so hoping you all find it helpful! Max also curated some choice needle drops from friends, listener submissions and his own recently released record too. On this episode you’re hearing “Last Night I Woke Up In The Dark” by Peretsky, “&pull” by Bas Relief, “A Pilcate Leaf” by Greening, and “Drawing Of Me” by U.e. Support the show by signing up for the Patreon, where you'll get early access to episodes as well as our Discord. Thanks for listening!

Welcome to episode one of CRITICAL LISTENING, a new podcast about music and technology hosted by Liz Pelly and Max Alper. How does a band survive 30 years of industry hostility to art? For our first episode, we’re chatting with Greg Saunier, the drummer of Deerhoof, who just released Noble and Godlike in Ruin, their 20th record across 30 years as a band. We talk about the political themes of the group’s recent material, resisting the AI slop machine, and whether recorded music itself is an aberration. Plus, we picked up a conversation on protecting the musical commons from tech extraction that Liz and Greg started at a Mood Machine event in LA earlier this year. Deerhoof’s new record thematically grapples with some big questions of art-making amidst societal collapse. In turn, our first episode serves as a reminder that when we talk about technologies, we’re never just talking about technologies, but the social, political and economic forces influencing them. Thanks for listening, supporting, and also bearing with us as we work through DIY recording and editing! Songs in this episode:Theme song: “Talk to Me” by Eraser“Disobedience” by Deerhoof“Overrated Species Anyhow” by Deerhoof“Kingtoe” by by Deerhoof“Ha Ha Ha Ha Haaaa” by Deerhoof Support the show, hear more from this interview with a bonus segment, and get an invite to join the conversation on the Discord server at patreon.com/criticallistening.